You're talking like Mourinho hasn't spent money himself.
He's spent enough money to contend with City.
He has failed to maximized this team like Pep has maximized City.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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You're talking like Mourinho hasn't spent money himself.
He's spent enough money to contend with City.
He has failed to maximized this team like Pep has maximized City.
Works both ways.
Didn’t see many spouting vitriol after some of our successes in the last couple of seasons.
As always, the truth lies somewhere in between. But this thread has lost any sense of objectivity. Mourinho polarises opinion, so trying to get any semblance of reasoned debate is futile.
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Second most expensive team finishes second. Ahead of Spurs and Liverpool.
Cup competitions are hardly an accurate measure of a teams quality.
That makes no sense at all as an argument but whatever.
Just changed the vote to out. He has improved us from previous years but not enough to substitute from some awful football throughout the season, with some dissapointing cup exits.
Using the level of competition as justification is a pretty weak excuse. Manchester City are obviously on a different level and Liverpool have also improved since then but almost everyone outside of the top 6 have been pretty rubbish this season - evidenced by how a team as limited as Burnley can finish 7th, and even Arsenal's threat has completely dissipated. Chelsea's poor season that year also has to be at least partially attributed to Mourinho too.
Anyway, we already know Mourinho's staying on and the apathy has already started to kick in. I felt nothing when we lost against Sevilla and I felt the same way today.
Best league campaign since Fergie, while still managing to contend in the cups. Obviously CL was a disappointment, but at least we are back in it, and were a goal away from QF. Don't understand folk calling for Mourinho's head when the last 3 years before him were awful. We are a respected top club again.
I really don't get why it's so hard for him to play offensive football with this squad. There is plenty of trickery, pace and power in United's team but it's absurd how little we see of that.
Your man was with the club that was 10th.
Those extreme swings in opinion are bound to happen with a results-first manager like Mourinho. If the results are there then he's doing his job well. Once the results aren't there there's nothing else to shield him from criticism as results are all he offers. Other managers who place more emphasis on the way we play would probably get more leeway.
Point being, people pick and choose when to roll out the ‘Mourinho is a dinosaur’ line.
And they can’t bring themselves to praise him on the occasions he does well.
A bit of balance would be nice.
I agree completely.
It just does nothing for this thread. Rather than being objective, people back themselves into a corner with their opinion.
Back in 1989 I carried on believing and trusting that Ferguson would eventually get it right once he cleared the decks of the deadwood from the previous management regime. similarly I am going to do precisely the same with Mourinho, we have to suck it all up and realise that the likes of Young, Jones, Herrera etc are fundamental to where we are and not where we should be.
We have to be patient and trust that this extremely successful manager we have will get us back challenging and playing attacking football given better players instead of making do with a lot of very average ones, to get us 2nd place in the league is nothing short of incredible given the dross in the squad he has had to work with.
We have to be patient and trust that this extremely successful manager we have will get us back challenging and playing attacking football given better players instead of making do with a lot of very average ones, to get us 2nd place in the league is nothing short of incredible given the dross in the squad he has had to work with.
Why even bother watching or even playing football if spending is all that matters, they might as well give the richest owners the trophies and save everyone's time.
There are plenty of clubs in Europe that play very good football while spending a fraction of what we spend, why is is so unreasonable to expect that from this United side.
Why do some fans believe that he is not responsible for the players state of mind when they go out on the pitch. If he’s a demoralizing person why would you play for or even think you are capable. How can he still have any ounce of his world class ability left if he can’t get this team to play him.
For me he needs to go, it doesn’t matter who we sign, our non existent identity and style of football is on him. We have progressed yes, I just don’t know how we got here. Plus he has already got his excuse in for next season, so expect more of this.
For me he needs to go, it doesn’t matter who we sign, our non existent identity and style of football is on him. We have progressed yes, I just don’t know how we got here. Plus he has already got his excuse in for next season, so expect more of this.
It's not am unreasonable expectation, I'm just saying we've not been outperformed by Liverpool!
I'm hoping for the best next season but if we continue a full season in the same style of play my patience will run out.
What sort of absolutely clueless cnut of a United fan actually thinks this utter mess should continue as manager ffs? Probably the same twats that think Martial should be sold and rate Lukaku.
I see two possible scenarios for next season:
1. Mourinho quietly moans to owners and Ed about lack of quality, they invest in lot of overpriced players that Mourinho won't get the best out of, or those players will simply underperform like majority of those that we signed over the years - we end up second or third next season, play around 10% better football than this season(which isn't some difficult task anyway), and that's about it. We don't see any major improvements, similar to this season. Mourinho would probably leave at the end of next season with that outcome.
2. Mourinho moans quietly about lack of quality before this transfer window, but despite that the owners/Ed don't spend huge amount on players. We start the season with Mourinho already publicly calling out club for lack of investment, saying how others are in front of us, and gets done here by end of calendar year, while we end up year in about 4-6th place.
1. Mourinho quietly moans to owners and Ed about lack of quality, they invest in lot of overpriced players that Mourinho won't get the best out of, or those players will simply underperform like majority of those that we signed over the years - we end up second or third next season, play around 10% better football than this season(which isn't some difficult task anyway), and that's about it. We don't see any major improvements, similar to this season. Mourinho would probably leave at the end of next season with that outcome.
2. Mourinho moans quietly about lack of quality before this transfer window, but despite that the owners/Ed don't spend huge amount on players. We start the season with Mourinho already publicly calling out club for lack of investment, saying how others are in front of us, and gets done here by end of calendar year, while we end up year in about 4-6th place.
He has taken us as far as he could, time to go. I always come back to that Sevilla tie, but he showed he has not learned from it and thats quite damning. We had physical presence and still couldn't do shit. As far as i am concerned, i cant wait til he leaves.. Think next season will be a carbon copy of this one, plus more cash spend for not really improving.
This. If people think Mourinho is bad, then Simone is another level altogether.
You should take a break from the forum.
Jesus christ. I know we lost, but we got to the final and have vastly improved in the league, not to forget that we won two trophies last season. It is not near as bad as some posters are making out.
Already did for 3 years.
Unfortunately came back when everything is so utterly shit on the football side.
If that happens, he leaves and we carry on with a better squad. He still deserves this next season coming up.
Going into a final when the manager and his dog knows he’d rather eat shit than start your striker. Great management. Blokes a cnut and can’t wait till he’s gone.
His crutches are eroding slowly. Best defensive this- gone. Never loses finals that- gone.
His crutches are eroding slowly. Best defensive this- gone. Never loses finals that- gone.
Careful pal.
We all know he’d have rolled Lukaku out on a wheelchair if FA rules had allowed it. The boring bastard.
Don't know if it's posted already but :
This is the first time in Jose Mourinho's managerial career that he has failed to win a trophy in his second season at a club.
The Special One's special formula runs out.
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He has nothing special about him anymore. He give us a good game and then 3 bad games. Sucked the excitement of football out of our play and made me for the first time in 32 years watch the game without being bothered about the match. He made a small improvement but not good enough compared to what he has spent. He has lost his mojo and all these formulas of him winning trophies despite the type of football and specially on his second year. He looks like someone who is not happy at his job, does not look enthusiastic like before. I think we need to find someone else very soon.
The Special One's special formula runs out.
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He has nothing special about him anymore. He give us a good game and then 3 bad games. Sucked the excitement of football out of our play and made me for the first time in 32 years watch the game without being bothered about the match. He made a small improvement but not good enough compared to what he has spent. He has lost his mojo and all these formulas of him winning trophies despite the type of football and specially on his second year. He looks like someone who is not happy at his job, does not look enthusiastic like before. I think we need to find someone else very soon.
And then we appoint a manager who doesn't think those players that Mournho bought are good enough?
I think Jose Mourinho has actually created a problem for himself finishing 2nd.. it means that anything LESS next season will be deemed a failure.. as he is unlikely to win the CL.
So basically Mourinho might be a victim of finishing 2nd this season. As Liverpool will improve, Chelsea will spend and improve, Spurs will be there or abouts and Arsenal is the wild card with a new trendy manager (Arteta?). We could be looking at a fight just for top 4 which would be seen as not progress from finishing 2nd this season.
Basically, Mourinho is doomed to failure at Manchester United. It's written in the stars.. this only ends one way, in tears. Just the way things go! he is a Chelsea Legend and I think that's how he will stay. The club can't justify a contract extension without progress next season (proper title challenge and going further in the CL minimum requirements)
Wrong place, wrong time - sadly.
So basically Mourinho might be a victim of finishing 2nd this season. As Liverpool will improve, Chelsea will spend and improve, Spurs will be there or abouts and Arsenal is the wild card with a new trendy manager (Arteta?). We could be looking at a fight just for top 4 which would be seen as not progress from finishing 2nd this season.
Basically, Mourinho is doomed to failure at Manchester United. It's written in the stars.. this only ends one way, in tears. Just the way things go! he is a Chelsea Legend and I think that's how he will stay. The club can't justify a contract extension without progress next season (proper title challenge and going further in the CL minimum requirements)
Wrong place, wrong time - sadly.
Meh.
Not awful, not amazing. We dont have the talent to compete with City and doubling Fellaini's wage wont close the gap.
Not awful, not amazing. We dont have the talent to compete with City and doubling Fellaini's wage wont close the gap.
The most worrying thing for me is that he can't seem to get anything out of the players he signed. Matic, Pogba and Sanchez have all been disappointments. They're his players but he can't find a system to that suits.
If his strategy is just to spend more more until he hits on a few lucky buys we'd be better off binning him.
If his strategy is just to spend more more until he hits on a few lucky buys we'd be better off binning him.
It’s really simple for me. I’m still with him, but win the league next season or sack him.
I’m tired of excuses. Get the job done. You have the money, and more experience in this league than the guy who got 100 points. I don’t see any reason why after 3 years and 6 transfer windows, he can’t win the league other than him actually regressing ability-wise as a manager.
Money will be there. Players are there. If the players aren’t good enough, change them. Buy and sell to your liking. It’s all on him. If they’re not “his players” after 3 years, that’s his problem. If they’re “his players” and they still don’t win the league, that’s his problem.
There’s literally not one thing that he can argue that Conte and Pep had/has that he doesn’t. It’s just so hard to get around the cold hard truth that Pep and Conte didn’t need much time to win the league, so why does Mourinho, the guy who knows this league better than them all?
If he doesn’t win the league next season then it’s totally on him and he can go. Challenging is not enough.
I’m tired of excuses. Get the job done. You have the money, and more experience in this league than the guy who got 100 points. I don’t see any reason why after 3 years and 6 transfer windows, he can’t win the league other than him actually regressing ability-wise as a manager.
Money will be there. Players are there. If the players aren’t good enough, change them. Buy and sell to your liking. It’s all on him. If they’re not “his players” after 3 years, that’s his problem. If they’re “his players” and they still don’t win the league, that’s his problem.
There’s literally not one thing that he can argue that Conte and Pep had/has that he doesn’t. It’s just so hard to get around the cold hard truth that Pep and Conte didn’t need much time to win the league, so why does Mourinho, the guy who knows this league better than them all?
If he doesn’t win the league next season then it’s totally on him and he can go. Challenging is not enough.
A new manager will be able to work with players like Pogba and Lukaku. We are being linked to players like Sandro who is just a good LB period. We will be fine, Mourinho or no Mourinho. This is not like taking over from van Gaal where yhere were no top players in the side.
I'm kind of on the same page. He's had 2 full seasons with most of these players, he knows them very well. If he decides to trust most of them with another season and fails, that's on him. However, I can live with not winning the league if we have success elsewhere.
I suggest you watch some matches from 15/16 again as the football was way worse. We have been very average last couple of months but nowhere near shite as in 15/16.
Because he isn't as good as Guardiola is, pretty much. I really don't like Mourinho as United's manager (but oddly still kind of like the guy, as I used to like him at Chelsea and all that... just not at United), but he is still a top manager. Not the very best, but that's not the problem. The problem is he isn't suited to this club. My issue with the line of thinking of "win the league or bust" is that it's a very harsh mentality. IMO, as long as there are plenty of encouraging signs, then the manager should stay. General points like these:
- A progression in quality of performances (whether that's defensive play or offensive, it gives you hope that he's doing the right thing).
- Improvement in players already at the club (no brainer, but also gives you hope that with even better players they can make a further step up as a club.
- Consistency in style of play (a manager changing his tactics for every single game makes me think he doesn't know what he's doing and he's just trying anything. Not changing formation or making the odd exception, but general play style and tactics).
- Good results (because it's nice to have everything else, but at the end of the day, you do need at least your base objectives like get top 4)
- Entertaining football
- Giving youth a chance
- Never giving up/being defeatist in your comments as the manager, no matter what you actually believe
- Building a side with the aim to be the best (any side with the financial strength of United, City, PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich really should be striving for this, always building a side to try and outplay any other side. Teams like Atletico are more those who can't compete financially so build a side to nullify and compete like that. That's a big problem with Mourinho. Even at one of the 5 wealthiest clubs, he's dream is to build a side to nullify and not dominate)
The problem with Mourinho is that for me, he doesn't tick most of these points. Our quality of performance if anything deteriorates as the season goes on. The players at the club already have if anything, gone backwards for the most part. There is no consistency in style of play (or there is, if you consider how Mourinho goes to defend/kill the momentum of a game the second we play a decent side). He doesn't play entertaining football. He's always been one who alienates the promising young attacking players, and it's the case again (there's a difference with giving them appearances, and really nurturing them). Then obviously the last point, as Mourinho with all the money and players in the world, would still just build a side who could just nullify a dream Pep side, rather then dominate anyone.
The only thing he usually has going for him is results and getting trophies. He achieved the bare minimum with his results, because we failed in every cup competition, and if anything way over-achieved in our league position relative to the on field performances. So I'd be worried if I were him, because he needs to drastically change if he wants to keep his job past next season IMO.
I think he’s worth another season for sure. There has been an improvement on last year but we’re a long way from getting it right.
The uncomfortable thing for me is that I look at our team sheet today and even though he’s spent money, I still don’t think we are anywhere near good enough technically. Herrera, Rashford, Lingard, Young, Martial, in fairness to Mourinho he gets these lads into decent positions but all four of them constantly seem to give the ball away or don’t do enough with it.
Sanchez and Pogba are in there to try and cover up the weaknesses in those players but he can’t seem to get the best out of either of them and it’s adding to the problem. Sanchez looks likes he’s totally in his shell. There’s a distinct lack of width to the team, it comes from the full backs but neither of them can consistently deliver a final ball.
United have to find a way of being more penetrative with the ball. That means playing with tempo, movement, cutting edge, keeping the ball in tight spaces, fixing defenders and getting the ball where it needs to be. We aren’t productive enough with it and when you concede goals like the one we did today on top of that, it’s always going to be difficult.
The uncomfortable thing for me is that I look at our team sheet today and even though he’s spent money, I still don’t think we are anywhere near good enough technically. Herrera, Rashford, Lingard, Young, Martial, in fairness to Mourinho he gets these lads into decent positions but all four of them constantly seem to give the ball away or don’t do enough with it.
Sanchez and Pogba are in there to try and cover up the weaknesses in those players but he can’t seem to get the best out of either of them and it’s adding to the problem. Sanchez looks likes he’s totally in his shell. There’s a distinct lack of width to the team, it comes from the full backs but neither of them can consistently deliver a final ball.
United have to find a way of being more penetrative with the ball. That means playing with tempo, movement, cutting edge, keeping the ball in tight spaces, fixing defenders and getting the ball where it needs to be. We aren’t productive enough with it and when you concede goals like the one we did today on top of that, it’s always going to be difficult.
I don’t think it’s about taking the shackles off, I just think we just need to find a way of being more clinical with the ball. More tempo, more movement, better control in tight spaces, better final deliveries when we get into those positions etc. Just need more quality in the final third, more cutting edge.
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