What was he doing before the game? How on earth can a team not be fired up for a cup final? I would have bought into the 'weak mentality' theory had this same side not produced the comebacks they did vs Palace, Chelsea, City and Tottenham in recent months. There's a team there but Mourinho doesn't know how to press their buttons and get them bang on it from the start.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
- Status
What was he doing before the game? How on earth can a team not be fired up for a cup final? I would have bought into the 'weak mentality' theory had this same side not produced the comebacks they did vs Palace, Chelsea, City and Tottenham in recent months. There's a team there but Mourinho doesn't know how to press their buttons and get them bang on it from the start.
I’m not talking about why they were fired, I’m talking about the justification from fellow fans for giving them more time and money.
I’m all for building the team in time, but if we’re expecting Mourinho to give us the quality that we’ve all been waiting for in his 3rd year, then I’m afraid we’ll end up massively disappointed again. Building a team for three years would indicate a noticeable improvement each year. Klopp’s Liverpool is a good example. They were mediocre as feck when he first started and has now got them playing some great football. They even lost one of their best players in January and still made it to the CL Final. On the other hand, we gained a top player in Alexis but seem to have gotten worse.
And if Liverpool don’t have any more good players picked off next year, I can see them being more dangerous top 4 challengers. Man City will also only improve. You think Mourinho with the addition of the 3-4 players is going to end up with is going to make us strong favorites for the League or CL? I doubt it.
The rah-rah bullshit that coaches/managers have to give a rousing speech to get their team is just that, hollywood bullshit. If you are not motivated to play at your best from the get go, you're in the wrong line of work.
I played football (American) into my early 20's, and never, not once, was the motivation of the team down to our coaches giving us some stupid rah-rah speech, and American football is the biggest rah-rah sport there is.
Or it could be tactical.
At the end of the day the responsibility lies with him.
At the end of the day the responsibility lies with him.
I played a lot of American football too and I concur. If anything, the tone of the coaches before a big playoff game or a championship was more about staying focused and clear-headed if anything.
I never said it needed to be a 'rah-rah' speech, a good coach knows different players react differently and how to adapt their approach to get the best out of individuals and the entire collective. Mourinho doesn't know how to get these players in the right space to produce and it's only when we have to chase games do we see our players express themselves and seem capable of producing a basic standard of play we expect.
United have looked so lethargic so often at the start of games this season and that can only be a by-product of how the coaches prepare the players before the game (warm-up's, instructions, prep throughout the week etc.).
Brexit was a load of self-interested politicians manipulating the masses into blaming the EU on every little thing that was wrong in their lives. "The EU bosses us around and takes all our money, EU migrants are leeching off our benefits system and destroying the NHS, Turkey is joining the EU and about to flood our country with terrorists". In the same way Mourinho is always "disrepecting the fans (though anyone who's ever been to Old Trafford knows there's an atmosphere problem), attacking the players (despite it being a tried and tested method for giving lazy buggers a kick up the ass), being incapable of coaching teams that score goals (despite never finding a Chelsea or Real Madrid fan who would complain about their style). Some people are clever and know what they're saying is bollocks, but say it anyway because it's hard to disprove and stirs up the passions of the remaining stupid people who swallow and regurgitate.
Seems like no-one has ever heard of "building from the back". It's Jose's modus operandi when he isn't satisfied with the quality of his team and adjusts it negatively to solidify the defence before rocketbooting the attack. People were complaining about the quality of the squad before SAF even retired, and it only got worse under Moyes/LVG as big players retired. Combine this with the inflation of the market and I don't see how anyone couldn't see that building from the back is a slow and ongoing process.
I'm supremely confident that next season the attack will be rocket-booted, and we will be pushing 90 points in the Premier League combined with challenging Europe's elite in the Champions League; if not I'll want Mourinho gone too. But I actually think in three years' time we'll be thanking the stars that we still have him.
Hate to break it to you, but I think your going to end up disappointed. Jose has shown his lack of ability in adapting, and we seemingly do no attacking drills in training (which was what happened when he was at Real Madrid aswell).
I personally know Madrid fans who didn’t like his style of play. And I doubt we’re going to see this fluid attacking offense next year. This is what I meant about the comments being similar to the past managers. And while I get the idea of building from the back, it just doesn’t explain the complete disorganization goong forward.
Not a regular poster but here's my two cents.
I've gone from 'maybe 1 more season for Jose' to 'bring someone else' now. The reasons are:
1. We have absolutely no system with which we play (worse than usual Mourinho sides). There's no penetration, and just severely unintelligent and predicable movement. It's not about boring football. Rather I don't see any proper system. It's like 10 dudes trying to play who haven't seen each other before. With decent individual quality, you ought to score a few but as a team we're well below par with a VERY decent squad. 80% of the games are a battle, no matter who the opposition. He has signed some great players since coming in but somehow he cannot get the best out of them.
2. He makes attacking players worse. Mkh wasn't terrible, Martial isn't awful, Pogba isn't either. This lack of system, and attacking intent as a team makes players look bad. Heck, Sanchez is half the player we signed and I wonder why. Yes, players haven't been great too but if more than half the squad under performs for most of the season something isn't right on the training ground and the tactical boardroom. A non-existent system makes players look worse than they already are. It's not about being very aggressive either. He just cannot seem to sew them into a well knit unit and they run around like headless chickens.
3. Mind boggling decisions. For a large part of the season I just haven't understood his team selections/substitutions/formations. Rashford can't play on the right or up top alone. He keeps giving him chances because he probably runs a lot (but isn't as good as he's make out to be). He keeps playing many underperformers while expects Martial to do some magic in 20 minutes he so generously gives him. Shaw looked decent in a few cameos but he never gives him a run in the team. Sanchez on the right and Martial on the left can probably work but he never gives this formation a proper chance. He buys two CBs and sticks Jones/Smalling in a cup final. He plays players in positions they can't play in and then expects them to shine.
4. His comments throughout the season are awful and in stark contrast to when he took over. He never acknowledges that our football is awful or that we need to improve as a team. Instead, he always has excuses or is ready to throw players under. DDG's magic has earned us 2nd IMO otherwise we might well be 3rd or below. I can't even remember all the terrible things he has said throughout the season. Plus he's apparently now showing terrible man management while from his earlier manager days, his sides would walk through walls for him.
In a nutshell, I think game has evolved beyond him and his ego does not make him see it. There's no one underperforming more than the man himself IMO. He had a great squad at the start of the season, with some good players coming in and the expectations were way more than how we ended this long and hard campaign. He needs to go because I don't see him changing the way he runs things. His teams weren't magical but they were solid. That's not the case anymore. He's past it IMO.
I've gone from 'maybe 1 more season for Jose' to 'bring someone else' now. The reasons are:
1. We have absolutely no system with which we play (worse than usual Mourinho sides). There's no penetration, and just severely unintelligent and predicable movement. It's not about boring football. Rather I don't see any proper system. It's like 10 dudes trying to play who haven't seen each other before. With decent individual quality, you ought to score a few but as a team we're well below par with a VERY decent squad. 80% of the games are a battle, no matter who the opposition. He has signed some great players since coming in but somehow he cannot get the best out of them.
2. He makes attacking players worse. Mkh wasn't terrible, Martial isn't awful, Pogba isn't either. This lack of system, and attacking intent as a team makes players look bad. Heck, Sanchez is half the player we signed and I wonder why. Yes, players haven't been great too but if more than half the squad under performs for most of the season something isn't right on the training ground and the tactical boardroom. A non-existent system makes players look worse than they already are. It's not about being very aggressive either. He just cannot seem to sew them into a well knit unit and they run around like headless chickens.
3. Mind boggling decisions. For a large part of the season I just haven't understood his team selections/substitutions/formations. Rashford can't play on the right or up top alone. He keeps giving him chances because he probably runs a lot (but isn't as good as he's make out to be). He keeps playing many underperformers while expects Martial to do some magic in 20 minutes he so generously gives him. Shaw looked decent in a few cameos but he never gives him a run in the team. Sanchez on the right and Martial on the left can probably work but he never gives this formation a proper chance. He buys two CBs and sticks Jones/Smalling in a cup final. He plays players in positions they can't play in and then expects them to shine.
4. His comments throughout the season are awful and in stark contrast to when he took over. He never acknowledges that our football is awful or that we need to improve as a team. Instead, he always has excuses or is ready to throw players under. DDG's magic has earned us 2nd IMO otherwise we might well be 3rd or below. I can't even remember all the terrible things he has said throughout the season. Plus he's apparently now showing terrible man management while from his earlier manager days, his sides would walk through walls for him.
In a nutshell, I think game has evolved beyond him and his ego does not make him see it. There's no one underperforming more than the man himself IMO. He had a great squad at the start of the season, with some good players coming in and the expectations were way more than how we ended this long and hard campaign. He needs to go because I don't see him changing the way he runs things. His teams weren't magical but they were solid. That's not the case anymore. He's past it IMO.
You'd have to explain significantly more how Jose has shown a lack of ability in adapting and Real Madrid broke (smashed) the goals scored record in La Liga under him to "break" anything to me.
Fair enough, I personally know fans that want him back, guess they have fickle fans too
For the record I was massively LVG out so I'm not just a serial holier than thou "support the manager at all costs" type; LVG and Moyes did not have us signing indisputably quality players, winning big matches and getting us to 2nd place on a regular basis.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mak...email-ed-woodward.417089/page-2#post-19157604
Surely you understand that attacking organisation comes through the quality of the players, and the extent to which they are allowed to attack without half a mind on the incompetent people behind them?
My sentiment exactly. I have a much bigger issue with Woodward and the board given their incompetence in identifying not only the right manager but the right profile for United has had us wasted half a decade without any progress.
Picking Moyes then the likes of Mourinho latter on doesn't reflect well on the board. For a team that has an history and proud themselves on attacking football to go ahead and chose Mourinho as someone to take it forward shows how clueless some of the people in charge are and the biggest culprit in this is Woodward. His choices of managers has hurt the club more than anything else. What even worse is that his reaction after making those mistakes are late which is another reason to despair having him in charge of footballing matters for the club.
Generally, I'd believe that if it wasn't for Liverpool being so good offensively while having both a mediocre midfield and defense. I also believe that putting pressure on other teams is a way to keep their pressure off of us. And I also watch enough La Liga to know that you don't need to have top quality players to have a coherent offensive strategy. There should be no universe where I'm watching a mid table Spanish side and thinking to myself, "man I wish we could organize like this".
I maybe misheard it, but when Jose came in I'm sure he said he knew he had to change his style to be compatible with the way United traditionally play, or words to that extent, but all he's done is do it his usual way & then pretend to not understand why people are frustrated.
He's staying, I accept that, but I really hope through his thick skin he's not taking at least some of this on board, imo we're close to having a team that could produce football we want to see, a few tweaks, some new coaching ideas & we could play some decent stuff, but I really fear he's about to rip it up all over again, and sign safe players that'll play his system like robots for marginal if any improvement in results/performances.
He says he wants to stay long term, well he isn't going to if he continues with this approach, so he really has nothing to lose.
He's staying, I accept that, but I really hope through his thick skin he's not taking at least some of this on board, imo we're close to having a team that could produce football we want to see, a few tweaks, some new coaching ideas & we could play some decent stuff, but I really fear he's about to rip it up all over again, and sign safe players that'll play his system like robots for marginal if any improvement in results/performances.
He says he wants to stay long term, well he isn't going to if he continues with this approach, so he really has nothing to lose.
Let's just hope we lose him before we have a De Brunye and Salah situation on our hands.
One or two players underperforming is their fault, every player playing like shit points to a wider issue.
One of the biggest TV presenters in the UK and a huge United fan.
Well the amount of games where we have no attacking game plan and no plan b explains that more than anything. Having to resort to aimlessly crossing from our full backs and hitting it long to Fellaini is unacceptable for a man of Jose's experience.
Real Madrid broke the scoring records because of the individualy brilliant players they had more than to do with the tactics. Read the book by Diego Torres on Jose's time in Madrid and that will open your eyes an awful lot. Especially when you are seeing the same patterns occurring right now with us.
And the only one that got hold of this information was this nobody. Fake News if there ever was one.
How do you know?
Luckily we have you with all your football knowledge to tell everyone else what to think
I dont blame them for Moyes.
Ferguson recommended him and how many is it that can claim they have more football knowledge than him?
Not sure how many managers that was available when Van Gaal was hired and according to Dortmund/Klopp Woodward did talk to Klopp about the job.
Mourinho is an easy choice when the club needs to win things. Compare to Klopp/Poch who havent been able to win anything (maybe CL but they didnt have a chance in the league)
Yep, losing the dressing room doesn't sound like Mourinho at all.
A “nobody” I say, how dare you call Eamonn Holmes a “nobody” he’s a treasured member of society and a complete legend.
He’s basically the Ron Burgendy of British television. He dines with Royality, probably has SAF on speed dial and could probably walk around OT with the freedom that only a player or manager is allowed.
And where are the mid-table Spanish side in the league? Where are Liverpool in the league?
So what was Pep's plan b against Liverpool? Klopp's plan b against deep, compact defences?
You've basically just said the variable between Real Madrid's record-breaking season and our season is the quality of the players.
To be fair Ronaldo did manage to score 46goals in the league that season whilst being at odds with Jose and criticising his tactics. Think he scored something like 60 goals all together.
Last edited:
I have just googled him, he has been doing morning shows since 1988, Jesus. He might be semi reliable based on his profile. At least it doesn't seem he has to gain anything from lying.
It is a mute point anyway, our board will give Jose one more year regardless.
Seemingly not a sports TV presenter however? Strongly doubt he has any links whatsoever. Presenters have no place in reporting garbage. Leave the journalism to the sports journos.
Pep who has just easily won the league? He got it tactically wrong against one team, not 15-16 teams like Jose has this season.
Klopp who has played the best football in the league (which kills me to say) and are on the cusp of winning the Champions league? Klopp had the problem of not being able to break teams down last season but has learned and has easily put those sides away this season.
Not sure where you are going with this, but what I'm saying (and will most likely be proven right on) is that if you think we are magically going to turn into an offensive juggernaut next season then you are in for a shock.
I’d trust him on United matters more then the scummy English journos.
Not surprising as he picked his favorites and publicly embarrassed quite a few others. It's all good when results go his way but once the losing starts discontent brews.
Finishing between 2nd and 4th means little and even less so when the 1st place is 20 points ahead. But my point is not who finished where. The point was a counter to your assertion that you need only top players to play cohesively to a plan on offense.
I would imagine he probably does know a lot of people within the club but I couldn’t really imagine him having the ear of the current playing staff. Old guys like Giggs, Nev, Scholes, Rio and so on possibly but I can’t imagine he and Pogba having a chat. Maybe Mata at a push unless he’s neighbours with one of the guys.
Pretty sure he's friends with Sir Alex among other things IIRC.
He is paddy with people at the club.
Decent chance he is better placed to hear what is going on than the regulars. He's not just any TV presenter.
You’re right I looked up the previous season. It was 46 league goals and 60 overall.
Depends. A lot of the journalists can be a bit more believable, like if Duncan Castles (who has a half decent track record on Mourinho related matters that arent transfer related), or someone similar said this then fair enough. A fecking ITV presenter who's only connection to the club is the status of a fan probably knows feck all.
He is constantly miserable on the sidelines and in conferences. if he's like that with the players, it's no surprise we look lifeless. He really is "The Glum One".
Liverpool went on a good run (with a pretty easy draw) in the Champions League granted; they also bombed in the FA Cup and struggled against Stoke, Everton, West Brom, Burnley, Watford in the league.
As for Pep, nobody on here was praising his tactical versatlity last season before he got hold of a squad that made the need to be tactically versatile null.
But how does that point make sense when my point was that the attackers are having to protect the defense? Your counter is that we should cut the protection to the detriment of overall performance?
- Status