Mourinho's Real scored 102 and 121 goals in 38 games in the league. I've also not seen anyone seriously call this Real Madrid an attacking team. They're functional.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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The whole group.
Maybe you will say SAF never criticised individuals but i'm tired of all this. It puts me in mind of that scene in Glengarry Glen Ross where Alec Baldwin's character says, "If you can't take the abuse you get here, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit?" It's funny to me that criticising a player in a press conference is too much but then these players are supposed to go out and perform in front of 75,000 people and deal with the negativity that comes from a bad performance or a bad season. If you are a man, you take responsibility. If you are a man, you want that responsibility. To let other people take the flak for what you've done is self-patronising, emasculating. Pogba, Martial: stand up and be counted. If not, LEAVE.
I said in my first post here that it doesn't matter if Mourinho or the players are at fault. Criticising the manager allows the players to hide behind Daddy's coat and not look at their own fault. It's not beneficial.
This tweet is floored me.
Mourinho always singles out Rashford, Martial and Shaw but he hardly give any them opportunity to get into form. Even when one plays well they'll be dropped the next game.
The lack of continuity in our team contributes to our tumescent performance level.
I just saw his post match comments and they were pathetic. His desperate desire to constantly bemoan his own players and put all the problems in their court while absolving and somehow bigging himself up, is really tedious. We need to be successful in getting players who have my mindset
His inability to develop players really pushes me to want us to reconsider his position. I've always wanted him to stay for a third year but I don't want us to lose/fail to develop Rashford, Martial, Bailly etc. and still fail to win big trophies.
He's a spent force. He's also out of ideas. Next season is going to be brutal.
This tweet is floored me.
Mourinho always singles out Rashford, Martial and Shaw but he hardly give any them opportunity to get into form. Even when one plays well they'll be dropped the next game.
The lack of continuity in our team contributes to our tumescent performance level.
Wasn't there a period of time when he was playing Rashford often, and was questioned by about it when Rashford didn't play well?
I think he's very conscious of the fact that United fans like to see us develop young players, and is struggling with the fact that for some reason, he is not able to get the best results with some of them, and that is a reason why he has been planting ideas in our heads that these young players are not good enough mentally.
One whose last best youth product was rafinha and the other who has almost a first deal on every good German player. People have got to realise that we have been in a such unique situation in the modern game where a manager carried us for quarter of a century and everyone is expecting the next one to be the same. Its a hard job for any manager and people expecting a next manager to change in the philosophy immediately are seriously misguided.
For all their talents and the supposed best manager in the league, City won feck all last year. and so have Liverpool this year still. Liverpool would have had a good season only if they go on to win the CL. Yes they could win it and fair fecks to them if they do it. If they had done similar to us what our fans demand,i.e., sack the manager every year he doesnt win anything, they would have sacked them to. They are in a position because they persisted with their manager and believing in them, irrespective of the output.
Hypothetical question, would you take Klopp over Jose if it meant we don't win anything but just play"eye catching" football every season?.
What is it we should strive to be?. I have seen this "United tradition" thrown around a lot in this thread. With much respect, I say, what the feck does that mean?. Playing attacking football?, winning trophies?, We have had two managers in our entire history who could do that and we are still hungover from the last one and there in lies our biggest problem.
Performances at times have been dire, results have mostly been very good though and the progression is clear to see. Next season there is no more excuses though, he is seemingly being allowed to change whatever he wants and by then he would of had more than enough windows to get the squad where he wants it, anything less than the PL title and we should be looking elsewhere.
The depression on here over the past few results I don't really understand though, the league is over, we are just about stuck in second place and qualified for the CL a while back, these games are literally pointless and that's been reflected in the performances. Only game that matters now is the FA cup final,
The depression on here over the past few results I don't really understand though, the league is over, we are just about stuck in second place and qualified for the CL a while back, these games are literally pointless and that's been reflected in the performances. Only game that matters now is the FA cup final,
United have dropped 15 points vs the bottom 7 PL teams because Jose can't or won't teach his players how to beat a parked bus. United players look like they've never played or practiced together before when they come up against a parked bus. City dropped 1 point to bottom 7 teams (vs Huddersfield this past Sunday) because Pep's players know how to beat a parked bus. I have no reason to believe Jose will learn how to teach his players too beat a parked bus by the start of next season. Just one of many reasons I voted Mourinho out.
That's a great comparison, and very true. The people expecting us to magically turn good next season are going to be very disappointed.
No one expects any club to crank out worldie youth products every other year though, you disingenuously saying Rafinha is Barcelona's last best youth product doesn't take from the fact that they have a much better track record than ours regarding in-house development in the modern era. Plus, Barcelona and Bayern do still manage to remain competitive despite managerial changes, and you'll hardly ever hear "he needs his own full team before we can judge" type of ridiculous arguments from their fanbases that you often see in this thread to excuse/defend Mourinho. There's also a consistency in terms of approach to play and recruitment, and those are some of the points i was making to your "What's the solution? Lets chuck millions on a manager every year and if he doesnt get it right, we will try another one?" question (you can't just cherry pick sentences to reply to while ignoring how they were contextualized). Being overtly reliant on a/the manager is not the most efficient way to go about things these days, not for long-term and continuous success imo. I feel our structure has to change so as to allow us to be able to course correct asap all the while mitigating the negative effects of a potential managerial change.
People always refer to City winning nothing last season, and us winning the carabao cup and europa as if its some sort of ginormous triumph, personally, I find it comical considering the improvement they have made and where they are now. Also, though understandably, maybe justifiably even, I feel expectations for us have changed so quickly and to me that's somewhat sad. I'd trade you City's past two seasons for ours in a heartbeat. Like I said, it’s not like we are out here ugly winning and lifting important trophies. We are a b tier cup competition team, that looks eons away from being able to compete for the most coveted trophies. Klopp and Mourinho have been at their current clubs for a similar amount of time, Mourinho with considerably more resources and arguably a better set of players, on paper at least, has, imo, shown less improvement in terms of coherent and purposeful play as a team. Furthermore, while several players at Liverpool have improved under Klopp, ours have regressed under Mourinho. Despite him not lifting trophies, Liverpool didn't just keep Klopp around in a vacuum or out of the goodness of their heart, the progress has been substantial even under non optimal circumstances like losing arguably their best player.
I find that hypothetical question weird because its posits Klopp not winning anything as an eternal recurring event. But yes, I'd rather us be playing current Liverpool football than current Manchester football, and in the same vein, I'd rather we were in the CL final instead of in the FA cup final, even if it meant us switching places with them on the table. The gap between us isn't exactly grand canyon like on the table, and that's mostly due to them having an inconsistent start to the season. Based on current evidence, I feel if Klopp had the resources available to Mourinho at United, he'd be doing a better job than Mourinho is.
I never once mentioned "United tradition" or anything of the like, you're projecting other people's arguments onto me and I'd ask you to remain objective if possible, please. I think United should strive to be a club that competes at and for the highest/most coveted trophies while playing a brand of attacking football. Those are my personal beliefs, and I'd hazard a guess that is/was part of our appeal and one of the core elements that formed the platform for both our sporting and commercial success.
The poll was set months ago, i'm sure Jose has lost lots of positive voters regarding his press comments since then.
True
spot on
one of Fergie's many qualities
consider the evolution of our team from 4-4-2 with flying wingers to 4-5-1 in the early 00s to a 4-3-3/4-5-1 in his later years when we were at our best in the Champions League 08-10
for the positive ones out there how to we think progress will be made next year
2 new fullbacks, particularly at right back would make an impact
a new RW/RAM would be the next priority and a really talented player would add some balance
aside of that it's hard for me to see how things are going to improve.....
no one here could honestly say Mourinho is getting the best out of players as a team and overwhelmingly as individual. Ashley Young seems to be the one player who has improved under Jose.
how are his motivational methods going to change or have a better impact? I don't see it
2 new fullbacks, particularly at right back would make an impact
a new RW/RAM would be the next priority and a really talented player would add some balance
aside of that it's hard for me to see how things are going to improve.....
no one here could honestly say Mourinho is getting the best out of players as a team and overwhelmingly as individual. Ashley Young seems to be the one player who has improved under Jose.
how are his motivational methods going to change or have a better impact? I don't see it
Cool, so you've decided we are hypothetically a 5th place side next season whilst ignoring that we will likely finish this season better than Pep did last season and that we were comfortably above 18 sides in the league.
Damn you Mourinho, you led us to 5th in this imaginary, illogical world.
Yes because it has been much better than the shit show under Moyes and LVG. I can also see clear progression under Mourinho. We also started the season really good, putting 4 past a number of teams. I am patient enough to see if the football improves alone with the results next season.
Absolutely not but that sentiment is extended to football in general.
We have finished 2nd in the league, highest finish and points total since SAF. We may have played poor football for the majority but what does that say about the rest of the league?
Also it doesn’t matter at the end of the day because Liverpool will finish 4th and win nothing. They also had a pretty easy CL run. Real Madrid had to beat PSG Juve and Bayern, Liverpool had to beat Porto City and Roma. If Liverpool played any of the teams Real played then they would be out.
We are progressing and have leapfrogged Chelsea Spurs Arsenal and Liverpool in league position from last season, that is clear progress. Last season everyone wanted results and now they change to wanting good football as well. Yes it would be great to see the team playing better but sometimes we can’t have everything happen at once.
Since when did the FA Cup become shit? It is the oldest Cup in the world and all the English teams would love to win it. You are coming across as a proper spoiled fan. Most clubs would love to be in with the chance of winning the FA Cup and you label it as shit.
They will still finish the season with nothing.
We have had better results and clear signs of progression. Hopefully the good football comes next season.
Bellamy made an intresting statement last night. If this was Real Madrid you’d invested so much and the manager was this far off of Barca come the end of the season he’d be gone, doesn’t matter who he is.
The problem is you're thinking the end result is proof that United will challenge next season. United aren't the only ones to have finished 2nd. Spurs had 86 points and came in 2nd last season. City finished in 2nd in 2015 with 79 points. The following season they ended up in 4th place. 2nd doesn't guarantee you anything next season.
I think it's better to look at more than just results. More than whether the football is boring or exciting, we should be looking at how the team looks like, well, a team. And thus far, it doesn't look like they have any clue. They just look like 11 individuals thrown on the pitch. This after 2 seasons. Does it take more than 2 seasons to accomplish this? I don't think so. The other managers accomplished this faster with less of a budget. So it's up to you to believe in whether or not you think it's going to all of a sudden change in the 3rd season, what he couldn't do in 2 seasons.
So we might then look for summer transfers. What do you think we'll be looking at? 4 players? What is the success rate of our signings under Mourinho? Lindelof is benched. Sanchez hasn't been great for the majority of his time here. He sold Mkhitaryan so that didn't work out. Many people have been having a go at Pogba and Pogba himself has gotten benched so we can't for sure state he has been an overwhelming success. I love Lukaku and think he's had a good season, but it's not like he's been an amazing signing. So with that success rate in the transfer market, are we going to assume 2 players will make up that gap with City?
Yep, very disappointed. I’ve seen absolutely nothing in the last six months to indicate any progression in our football.
I don’t remember even one game this season where we have played well for the entire 90 minutes.
Has any team EVER dominated a whole 90 minutes in one game?
No! Every game has ups, downs and lulls.
I swear, some on here will not be happy until we win every game 5+ -0.
No one is happy right now, but at least let’s see what happens in the summer and how next season goes.
If as you say we are just "11 individuals thrown on the pitch", perhaps you can explain as to how on earth Mourinho has managed to be second in the league and to the FA cup final?
I didn’t say dominate mate, I said played well.
Mourinho’s United seem unable to play well for more than 30-40 minutes in a game. That’s a huge concern and has nothing to do with wanting to win every game 5-0.
The summer will not change anything. Not unless Mourinho decides to completely change his approach to games.
No doubt. However Real Madrid aren't known (except the last few years tbh) for making very wise choices most of the time. I think even if they had lost the title by 1 point to Barca but did it in a Mourinho football fashion, he would still get fired.
Some posters: "Why is our football so shit"?
Some posters: "Because Pep has spent more money."
Personally, I can't wait to see the back of him. Our football is completely joyless. We are the football version of some dystopian sociatey (The movie Euilibrum more like) , everyone is going through the motions. How many people actually look forward to watching us play? We switch the telly on, if we are lucky, we see a couple of goals/shots, the atmosphere is dead. Lose/win/draw, at the end of the game, we console ourselves with being second in the table and force ourselves to think that with some new fullbacks, we will play swashbuckling football. The fans are bored, the players look terrorized and the manager constantly looks like he's at a funeral.
I don't expect to be entertained but after each game, I'm left flabbergasted with how shite the football is. My expectations for next season have been crushed so low to the point, I'm just desperate to be able to look forward to watchin us play.
Some posters: "Because Pep has spent more money."
Personally, I can't wait to see the back of him. Our football is completely joyless. We are the football version of some dystopian sociatey (The movie Euilibrum more like) , everyone is going through the motions. How many people actually look forward to watching us play? We switch the telly on, if we are lucky, we see a couple of goals/shots, the atmosphere is dead. Lose/win/draw, at the end of the game, we console ourselves with being second in the table and force ourselves to think that with some new fullbacks, we will play swashbuckling football. The fans are bored, the players look terrorized and the manager constantly looks like he's at a funeral.
I don't expect to be entertained but after each game, I'm left flabbergasted with how shite the football is. My expectations for next season have been crushed so low to the point, I'm just desperate to be able to look forward to watchin us play.
Some posters: "Why is our football so shit"?
Some posters: "Because Pep has spent more money."
Personally, I can't wait to see the back of him. Our football is completely joyless. We are the football version of some dystopian sociatey (The movie Euilibrum more like) , everyone is going through the motions. How many people actually look forward to watching us play? We switch the telly on, if we are lucky, we see a couple of goals/shots, the atmosphere is dead. Lose/win/draw, at the end of the game, we console ourselves with being second in the table and force ourselves to think that with some new fullbacks, we will play swashbuckling football.
I don't expect to be entertained but after each game, I'm left flabbergasted with how shite the football is. My expectations for next season have been crushed so low to the point, I'm just desperate to be able to look forward to watchin us play.
Yes, easy for those who just watch from afar to say the results are all that matters and you should not expect entertainment, different story for those who are investing their time and money to attend the games, especially if you want to take your kids, get them involved.
I am more excited about the end of next season than the beginning of it.
I've resigned myself to another season of this shite. Thing is, if he finishes 4th next season I still don't think they'd get rid. They essentially wanted him to solidify us as a top 4 team again, so 2nd and 4th consecutively would be alright with the board.
Not expecting any improvements whatsoever next season. If anything, expecting a decline.
Not expecting any improvements whatsoever next season. If anything, expecting a decline.
Don't agree. The club will settle for being a top 4 team but that wasn't the plan. By the end of this summer he woulod have spent about 500m.
This club is developing a reputation for awful football and it will soon start hurting the club's brand.
I don't think things will get better unfortunately no matter who we sign. The problem is the coaching 100% - you dont need to spend a tone of money to play attractive football. I don't think the club have realised this yet.
Not wanting to be a pedant, but who will have spent £500m by the end of this summer?
They never will. Woody has been blinded by Jose and will back him to the hilt. We're stuck with him for the foreseeable unfortunately
Some posters: "Why is our football so shit"?
Some posters: "Because Pep has spent more money."
Personally, I can't wait to see the back of him. Our football is completely joyless. We are the football version of some dystopian sociatey (The movie Euilibrum more like) , everyone is going through the motions. How many people actually look forward to watching us play? We switch the telly on, if we are lucky, we see a couple of goals/shots, the atmosphere is dead. Lose/win/draw, at the end of the game, we console ourselves with being second in the table and force ourselves to think that with some new fullbacks, we will play swashbuckling football. The fans are bored, the players look terrorized and the manager constantly looks like he's at a funeral.
I don't expect to be entertained but after each game, I'm left flabbergasted with how shite the football is. My expectations for next season have been crushed so low to the point, I'm just desperate to be able to look forward to watchin us play.
Have to agree to some extent and I'm usually defending Mourinho. But the way we approach games these last months, especially against "smaller" teams really left me wondering whether he is the right man. And I'm also pretty sure that getting new toys every summer is not going to change the way we play football.
I remember posting the same about LVG ........... who knows? I'll carry on going to matches, but if the fanbase turns, then just like Wenger he'll be out on his arse.
Yeah Woodward has to shoulder some of the blame too, we need a clear direction. I don't think he has a long term plan for the club other than to make hollywood signings.
Mourinho will have spent about 500m at the end of the transfer window. Of,course there's no guarantee but the general consensus is we are liiking at another 150m+ spend.
You don't spend that kind of money to just come top 4.
His pandering to some players who should not be here like young and fellaini is a window into the fact he’s not learning or even looking for sollutions to make us better, it will be the same rubbish next year with a board in place who only react to sacking managers if we not in the top 4. If David moyes kept us in the top 4 every year since he was appointed in 2013, he would still be here
I just don't agree with the idea that the coaching is 100% to blame. We're second in the league, in the FA Cup final, average 2 goals a game, and had a stonking run in the Champions League group stages. The positive signs are there from a coaching perspective. What's happened is the team just don't seem to have been together as they were at the start of the season.
Remember Jose at the start of the season saying he was worried for new players coming in because the team were so together and it would be hard for them to break in to the group? You don't hear those kind of comments anymore, and you don't see it on the pitch. Bar a few, everyone seems disjointed and playing for themselves. Pogba, Martial, Rashford particularly seem to be doing their own thing and not playing the team game. That's got to be on them, not Jose or the coaching staff.
Remember Jose at the start of the season saying he was worried for new players coming in because the team were so together and it would be hard for them to break in to the group? You don't hear those kind of comments anymore, and you don't see it on the pitch. Bar a few, everyone seems disjointed and playing for themselves. Pogba, Martial, Rashford particularly seem to be doing their own thing and not playing the team game. That's got to be on them, not Jose or the coaching staff.
That's the problem, he has too large a fanboy following for that to ever happen and the board won't care so long as he keeps getting top 4. They'll buy his excuses hook line and sinker. Where the likes of City and Liverpool are looking to strengthen from positions of (relative in Liverpool's case) power, we're still plodding along with the same bullshit from previous seasons. It's fecking depressing - and next season will be my first as a ST holder! There's no question of me giving it up or rejecting the opportunity, but I couldn't have chosen a worse season to have finally gotten one...
You must be great fun at parties.
Honestly, some people just really need to change the team they support.
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