I just dislike fans who say things like that. How about saying City may well improve as everything suggests so we'll just need to improve massively to have any chance....city deserve to keep on winning if our club and fan base are going to wait until they're standards slip.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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I just dislike fans who say things like that. How about saying City may well improve as everything suggests so we'll just need to improve massively to have any chance....city deserve to keep on winning if our club and fan base are going to wait until they're standards slip.
Unfortunatey I think it is our standards that have slipped.
Strangely our standards have massively improved this season.....if they improve again by the same margin next year.....we might actually have a chance
I'm already dreading the mere thought and prospect of next season. It might just confirm the Liverpoolization of the club and we won't be back to the top for a while.
I didn't really mean that. I meant that fans are falling into the trap of thinking Top 4 is great, an F.A. Cup is great. It is better than nothing, but it if far from great. PL title is great, CL is more than great.
I guarantee you Jose doesn't think those mickey mouse cups are anything but time buyers......
No doubt weve improved in league position, as for performances they have been gritty of late, started with a bang then just got more and more defensive but winning games, lesser opponents struggled.
Beat all top 6 sides 2 away from home that's a plus, champions league disappointing as we should have got past Seville, then seen how we could have done if we drew Barca, Real, Bayern. Not to be, no progression there and that's were we need to be. Overall been fair season if we go out to spurs which I think we will, then it will be a can do better season, cup final place ok win it then it' a trophy season again. Jose I'd give 1 more season and transfer window see what we get and how we do.. if it stays the same bye bye jose
Beat all top 6 sides 2 away from home that's a plus, champions league disappointing as we should have got past Seville, then seen how we could have done if we drew Barca, Real, Bayern. Not to be, no progression there and that's were we need to be. Overall been fair season if we go out to spurs which I think we will, then it will be a can do better season, cup final place ok win it then it' a trophy season again. Jose I'd give 1 more season and transfer window see what we get and how we do.. if it stays the same bye bye jose
I'm a Jose fan but I think this is a fair assessment.
I will admit that I never liked Mourinho, dating back to his first run in-charge of Chelski, and as you might imagine I was not particularly thrilled when he was named manger. however given that I (Naturally) could not do anything to stop his appointment, I have subsequently tried very hard to support the man in-charge of the club I love... Jose Mourinho doesn't make it easy to do so,one of my main problems with the man is his clear bias to certain player (Matic and Lukaku) these players seem to be beyond reproach in the mangers eyes,whereas players like Ander Herrera Rashford and Martial can be drop on back of one bad display irregardless of how well the they played the week before.
Matic & Lukaku have been the most consistent players in the squad. You already know what to expect from them. To be honest, the bulk of the players Jose acquired himself have generally been a level above the ones he inherited.
Rashford & Martial are kids. Inconsistency is normal at their level. However, for seasoned players like Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Mata, etc to lose their senses in games that should be easy is just frustrating. There’s no real leader in the team.
Only a massive clearout can put us where we want to be. SAF did it when he took the helm of the club. Jose did at Chelsea to win them there 1st PL title in 50 years. Pep just did it to win his 1st PL title in England. The board must back Jose to the hilt to bring in quality players and dump the deadweights.
We are light years behind City. @Pogue Mahone posted some team stats that looked grim. The amount of shots we concede is just ridiculous for a team that wants to challenge for the title. If we don’t have De Gea, we would be a mid-table club at best. We run less than any team in the top 6. It’s like there’s no real desire in the players - and they lack the consistency to win & keep winning.
The summer window promises to be very interesting.....
xG melts my head but I can understand shots and saves so I looked those stats up.
De Gea has made the sixth highest amount of saves in the league. Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and City are in the 16th through to 20th places, respectively.
We're also in 6th place when it comes to shots at the opposition goal. The five clubs just mentioned are all ahead of us in this particular table. By quite a margin (53 shot gap between 1st and 5th, 83 shot gap between 5th and 6th) Unsurprisingly, they're also all ahead of us in terms of "big chances missed". City, Liverpool and Arsenal have all hit the woodwork more than us (Spurs the same amount)
Full credit to our strikers for being efficient and Dave for being Dave but the overall balance of play is not what you'd expect from a team that is allegedly the second best in the country. All the other "big teams" are getting at the opposition keeper more than we are and protecting their own keeper better than us. Points on the board are great but there's every indication we've been flattering to deceive at both ends of the pitch.
This is a great post.
In the thread about Mourinho needing an attacking coach (something along that line), there were two schools of thought. One was regarding the fact we're second and up to January at least second or third leading scorers. That was despite the scorelines flattering to deceive for example in the first month of the season, games that were cagey ended up looking convincing because of late goals. Martial and Rashford had that role of one starting and the other having 20 minutes against tired legs. When people like myself brought up the statistics that show that level of efficiency won't carry through a whole season (things like scoring the first two shots on target which allow the team to sit back), the rebuttal was 'if we score this much despite not playing so well wait until we start creating more'. That idea, frankly, was buried when Lukaku went on a run of 4 goals in 19 games when in the first ten he bagged 11 goals.
The other camp was other teams who are creating more but not so clinical might have more reason to be optimistic because if you create that many good chances, at some point you're going to push through the gears.
yes Matic and Lukaku has been the most consistent, i always expect Matic too look drunk half the game and taking 10 seconds on the ball, i always expect Lukaku to do nothing except maybe scoring a rebound or a cross, and have the balance of bambi on ice. So yes very consistent.
Well, we do need to buy some more of course to replace aging players which Jose didn't help with signing more aging players.
Also people who are in for massive summer selling and signing hoping that it will improve dramatically next season are conveniently ignoring a very important fact that Jose has yet to get the best out of most of if not all of his big signings so far consistently.
If he can't do that, no amount of signings will improve the team how we want them to.
I really wish I could convince my self that Jose is the man for us, but I can't, all I see is a manager whos most comfortable style is one that doesn't fit us, a manger who as yet has no longevity at clubs, and one who seems to be keen to sell our best players becasue he can't get the best from them. If I truly thought he was in it for the long haul, and had the ability (or will) to change our playing style to one that we all want to see, then I'd be in, but he won't.
If there's 'progress' then it's marginal, and not really through anything special from the manager, more so the weight of money been spent has dragged us up the league in a poor season for Arsenal and Chelsea, lets not forget we could yet finish fourth.
I think alot of people are convincing themselves that they are seeing something that isn't there, and accepting us been dull as something to be tolerated if we grind it out a lot of the time, and more worryingly thinking the prospect of selling some of our best players as a good idea.
If there's 'progress' then it's marginal, and not really through anything special from the manager, more so the weight of money been spent has dragged us up the league in a poor season for Arsenal and Chelsea, lets not forget we could yet finish fourth.
I think alot of people are convincing themselves that they are seeing something that isn't there, and accepting us been dull as something to be tolerated if we grind it out a lot of the time, and more worryingly thinking the prospect of selling some of our best players as a good idea.
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I am not disputing the fact that Matic & Lukaku have improved our team significantly.However they have both had very bad patches and made horrible individual mistakes in a hand full of games throughout the season,these mistakes would have lead to most other members of the playing staff being dropped or being publicly lambasted by the manger. I need to reiterate that I am not slagging off Matic & Lukaku, I quite like both men and I think Lukaku could go on to score goals for fun in the near future. However the narrative that they are "a level above" the rest of the team is bias at best and possibly buying into Mourinho's propaganda.
Matic and Lukaku literally are better than our other players, especially in their respective positions.
matic first half or so of season was immense. Ever since then he has been sooooo poor. Dude looks like he is in quicksand out there. I mean i guess if you compare him to our other DM's he is the best by far.....mainly because we really don't have another DM. If we did perhaps matic wouldnt have been run into the ground. If we do this next year he will prob have the same hot start followed by slowly losing his legs.
As for lukaku up top, idk that is a tough choice. I think lukaku is a great forward in the right setup. Get the ball out wide and put in great delivery and he would crush it. (ironically i think present lukaku would have killed it under moyes and all that crossing) Do i think a guy like rashford might have done just as well this season in a different system leading the line? Maybe. Hard to tell when not really given the chance. Lukaku still has a lot to work on as does rashford. Just two completely different types of players and styles.
We are in 2nd place in a 20 team league. you'd have thought we were 2nd from bottom. Results matter you know and all season ours have been better than all teams bar one!
I can't get behind the idea of sacking someone who has us 2nd out of 20 teams. it seems a bit harsh. His attacking philosophy or lack of one is shocking but this is mostly a results business.
While both have done reasonably well in Manchster United shirts, it has not been any better than the likes of Ander Herrera or Rashford and Martial when said player have been given the same amount of playing time.
The one thing that I am certain won't change next season under Mou is our attacking play. Looking at the shit attacking displays over the past 2 seasons have me convinced its not the players. People can make all the excuses they want about needing more fullbacks and more midfielders and Mou can keep talking shite about players not listening to his instructions but I'm certain that by next season our attack will still be crap majority of the time. Will probably improve slightly depending on who we get but ultimately not close to as good as they could be
Lukaku doesn’t need crosses to be a good striker. He is just a better number 9 than Rashford. Rashford is quicker, but its not as if Lukaku is slow. Lukaku is stronger, better in the air, better at hold up, proven goal scorer, is good at linking play. Maybe when Rashford is 23 he will be closer to Lukaku as a striker.
That’s just wrong. We replaced Herrera with Matic and Ibra with Lukaku and now sit in second place. The first eleven has not changed much since last year. Matic and Lukaku have been important to us and are just better than Herrera and Rashford/Martial.
Well they don't have to change much because they've done a great job doing that over the past 2 seasons. They don't have to add two new fullbacks, well they did that last season... and well Jose didn't need to add 2 new keepers. The idea that we are still doing a 'rebuild' after 3 seasons is absurd
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Finishing in an insignificant second place, while playing inconsistent football and winning less trophies than last season. Is not a great improvement.
Yeah I remember thatDont tell me you forgot, when he was reading that list 2 years ago of players he gave a debut as proof of youth development and trustChrist
Spot on. I was fooling myself with Moyes and Van Gaal (in his first season with us) that they will turn it around, we just can't see all the things that are happening behind the closed doors, but in the case of these two there was nothing happening (well, something was happening, and that was our demise) and eventually nothing came of it. I absolutely can't see the improvement people are talking all around. Yes, our place in the league table may suggest otherwise, but it is simply deceitful. The team looks sluggish and usually has no clue when going forwards.
Really feel this summer will define Jose era at United. He seems to have lost Pogba and Martial and unlike like last season, there will be a lot of uncertainty surrounding the club. Not only about Jose but our players. If he gets it right we compete for the title and while there will always be United fans that are anti-Mourinho and his play style, results will keep them quiet. Get it wrong and lose the players, then I can easily see another season similar to his final at Chelsea.
You do realise its still better than last year? That’s my point?
Do you want the quadruple this season? City couldn't achieve that.
Do you want 'good attacking football'? Spurs are barely hanging on to 4th.
You need to accept how bad the squad was when he took over, and realise how much he's had to rebuild in the past 2 years, and it's not over yet. There's still probably 10-12 squad players at United that are simply nowhere near the level required to win a PL, and that's not Mourinho's fault, he's upgrading the squad every window.
Have some patience for the rebuild
We're going to finish 2nd only to an unbelievable PL team whilst getting 80+ points this season and it's still not shut them up.
We've done it without a left back, right back or any reliable pairings in CB. Remarkable, really when you look around at other rivals.
Everton ask fans to rate Sam Allardyce and senior leadership in online survey.
Our club should follow suite. We are also stake holders in the club.
Our club should follow suite. We are also stake holders in the club.
We already have threads and posts about “progress” and celebrating the fact that we’re second. Shit like that really scares me from us becoming Liverpool or Arsenal when average seasons are accepted
They are not better, they are less complicated to use for the manager. You don't want him looking for user manuals
City have delph at left back. Liverpool had until recently matip and lovren at CB, Arnold from the academy at right back and Moreno at left back. The narrative now is that we have a worse team than Liverpool. They humiliated City significantly while having a midfield of Henderson, Milner and Ox. None of those three would get into our team. What is so remarkable about what Mourinho has done? Bought a CB and never played him.
Yeah Herrera is better than Matic. Of course.
We can’t lose Pogba and Martial.
the thought is so so depressing
the thought is so so depressing
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I've just learnt a harrowing fact.
Valencia, Bailly, Lindelof and Shaw haven’t played a single minute together all season. I know people might not like to hear it but Bailly-Lindolof is our best pair. Both are comfortable on the ball. I don't think we have seen them play together enough. Shaw should be starting over Young. The way Mourinho has treated him is just not right.
Bailly-Lindelof. Can anyone tell me if they have started games together and if so how many. I think they could have build a good partnership together. Lindolof was ostracized at the start of the season.
Valencia, Bailly, Lindelof and Shaw haven’t played a single minute together all season. I know people might not like to hear it but Bailly-Lindolof is our best pair. Both are comfortable on the ball. I don't think we have seen them play together enough. Shaw should be starting over Young. The way Mourinho has treated him is just not right.
Bailly-Lindelof. Can anyone tell me if they have started games together and if so how many. I think they could have build a good partnership together. Lindolof was ostracized at the start of the season.
With all the Pogba rumours etc ,,I think the 3rd season syndrome has caught up with Mourinho. Don't think he will be here this time next year!
I hope he buckles the trend though and gets it right!!
I hope he buckles the trend though and gets it right!!
Jose has done well to add a bit of a strong mentality & a champions out look on things with this squad. It is something that was clearly lacking & ultimately appreciation must be given for that - our points do show this.
However; his game plan can be very readable & whilst he will get another season - i don't necessarily see it turning out to be better.
Whilst we count on the grit of playing the game an unnecessarily hard way - we cannot say that as a team of 11 players that we know what we do, when to do it & who to do it with. Even if that is not true, what we have been told to do is simply too simple.
Buying new wingbacks, wingers and midfielders does not add a level of complexity to our game that makes the opposition nervous about both defending & attacking against us.
For example -
1) Lukaku has had a good year - but are we really going to expect something tremendously different just because we have a winger & wingbacks that can cross a tad better? The sole use of Lukaku has been poor - the lack of use of playing martial or rashford off the shoulder of Lukaku has been poor; showing his inability to adapt to his new surroundings wuth new ideas.
2) Martial & Rashford were a partnership in the making when he had arrived; made them compete with each other - yet none as strikers with or without Lukaku.
3) Daley Blind made The rashness of Smalling better & arguably made him the best defender in the PL. Blind is not without faults - but he does have benefits thst not a single defender in our squad has. Jose - just like he did with martial & rashfords partnership - broke Blinds & Smallings partnership up for no reason & neither would try it out. Blind & Bailly would be great together both attacking and defensively - for the same reason smalling & Blind worked. All 3 as a defensive unit wpuld be wonders.
Thats the ultimate problem for me - Jose has a lack of partnerships within his team & it shows because we look like 11 individuals out on the pitch. Adding more players won't fix that - considering Jose himself is very closed off about the type of footballer & football he plays.
Unfortunately - Jose has not adapted to United & instead trying to make United in to Jose. A core identity, philosophy of football needs teammates to have an understanding & forming partnerships.
Won't happen.
However; his game plan can be very readable & whilst he will get another season - i don't necessarily see it turning out to be better.
Whilst we count on the grit of playing the game an unnecessarily hard way - we cannot say that as a team of 11 players that we know what we do, when to do it & who to do it with. Even if that is not true, what we have been told to do is simply too simple.
Buying new wingbacks, wingers and midfielders does not add a level of complexity to our game that makes the opposition nervous about both defending & attacking against us.
For example -
1) Lukaku has had a good year - but are we really going to expect something tremendously different just because we have a winger & wingbacks that can cross a tad better? The sole use of Lukaku has been poor - the lack of use of playing martial or rashford off the shoulder of Lukaku has been poor; showing his inability to adapt to his new surroundings wuth new ideas.
2) Martial & Rashford were a partnership in the making when he had arrived; made them compete with each other - yet none as strikers with or without Lukaku.
3) Daley Blind made The rashness of Smalling better & arguably made him the best defender in the PL. Blind is not without faults - but he does have benefits thst not a single defender in our squad has. Jose - just like he did with martial & rashfords partnership - broke Blinds & Smallings partnership up for no reason & neither would try it out. Blind & Bailly would be great together both attacking and defensively - for the same reason smalling & Blind worked. All 3 as a defensive unit wpuld be wonders.
Thats the ultimate problem for me - Jose has a lack of partnerships within his team & it shows because we look like 11 individuals out on the pitch. Adding more players won't fix that - considering Jose himself is very closed off about the type of footballer & football he plays.
Unfortunately - Jose has not adapted to United & instead trying to make United in to Jose. A core identity, philosophy of football needs teammates to have an understanding & forming partnerships.
Won't happen.
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