Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

Your stance

  • Top manager in charge of a major rebuild. Needs more time and/or money.

    Votes: 684 43.8%

  • Made improvements but we've stagnated. Sack him if we drop out of top 4

    Votes: 377 24.1%

  • He's not the right fit. Sack him and get someone else who can get more out of our squad

    Votes: 502 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,563
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Honestly I think some of the players that Jose has inherited have let him down but equally some of us suspected that might be the case anyway. Jones, Smalling, Blind, Damian and Shaw either injuries or brain fart moments have cost us points. Thats pretty much all the defence. That's nothing to do with Jose. When you think Depay was suppose to be our Sane? Herrera and Mata have been inconsistent, and It took sometime for Martial off the field relationship distractions to settle and for him to stop sulking on the football pitch. Even the first year signing didn't all work out with Mikki being emotionally fragile.

This just doesn't look like a Jose team. His teams are mentally strong, disciplined and tactically smart on the pitch. This team is like Jose playing FIFA and without him picking up the joypad, they are all over the place. Jose knows he needs more men in the team and less football immature players. Ibra was bought in for more than his football or shirt sales, and I think we've lost his leadership this year.

It's funny cause whilst we focus on their football, something that City have that all the others don't is leadership and high football IQ. Pogba under Pep would have been an absolute beast.....
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
Honestly I think some of the players that Jose has inherited have let him down but equally some of us suspected that might be the case anyway. Jones, Smalling, Blind, Damian and Shaw either injuries or brain fart moments have cost us points. Thats pretty much all the defence. That's nothing to do with Jose. When you think Depay was suppose to be our Sane? Herrera and Mata have been inconsistent, and It took sometime for Martial off the field relationship distractions to settle and for him to stop sulking on the football pitch. Even the first year signing didn't all work out with Mikki being emotionally fragile.

This just doesn't look like a Jose team. His teams are mentally strong, disciplined and tactically smart on the pitch. This team is like Jose playing FIFA and without him picking up the joypad, they are all over the place. Jose knows he needs more men in the team and less football immature players. Ibra was bought in for more than his football or shirt sales, and I think we've lost his leadership this year.

It's funny cause whilst we focus on their football, something that City have that all the others don't is leadership and high football IQ. Pogba under Pep would have been an absolute beast.....
Click to expand...
Match made in hell. It has been exclaimed that Pogba needs to play on the left of a 3 with little instruction or responsibility or something like that.......... For me he lacks positional sense a bit of discapline, IQ and has issues when not in posession of the ball. This is at pains with players for Peps system where you must be in certain zones at each phase whether in possession or not. Pogba is more a free spirit and wants to do his thing, where as Pep is very strict and demanding. I just can't envisage it. No doubt Pogba has the techincal skills, that much is clear, but I would like to know what about him suits Pep.

You are right in that none of our senior players have done Jose any justice, bar De Gea. City had players like De Bruyne, Silva and Kun who have been leaders for them this year, where as ours have been a bit flaky.
 
Stacks said:
Match made in hell. It has been exclaimed that Pogba needs to play on the left of a 3 with little instruction or responsibility or something like that.......... For me he lacks positional sense a bit of discapline, IQ and has issues when not in posession of the ball. This is at pains with players for Peps system where you must be in certain zones at each phase whether in possession or not. Pogba is more a free spirit and wants to do his thing, where as Pep is very strict and demanding. I just can't envisage it. No doubt Pogba has the techincal skills, that much is clear, but I would like to know what about him suits Pep.

You are right in that none of our senior players have done Jose any justice, bar De Gea. City had players like De Bruyne, Silva and Kun who have been leaders for them this year, where as ours have been a bit flaky.
Click to expand...

My point was not what suits Pep, was more what Pep would do with his game. It's funny as Jose makes defensive players better whilst Pep makes attacking players better. Both fail when either need to do things that's alien to them and we'll see how city cope when being put under pressure in CL or Utd need to go out and win like next week.
 
Z1L3 said:
So last year good in cups, bad in the league - not good. This year good in the league and bad in the cups (except still alive in CL and FA cup, and only out of League Cup) - again not good.

Defense is still not good - maybe because Baily and Rojo and Jones are constantly injured? Midfield hasn't been addressed? What about Matic and Pogba? The fact that those areas still need improvement should tell you the state of the team Jose inherited.

Jose doesn't get slated for defensive tactics? What TV shows have you been watching?

Shattered Miki's confidence? Come on, everybody needs to stop saying this stuff about confidence shattering. Miki got plenty of chances and wasn't consistent. And players shouldn't be delicate flowers whose confidence is shattered when they are benched. It's part of the job that sometimes you're benched, especially in a big club. Why isn't Fellaini's confidence shattered, or Lingard's? They sit on the bench all the time and usually do well when they play.

Made you better but only slightly? I think a lot of United fans have been spoiled over the last two decades and the expectations are absolutely ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I don't know how many transfer windows we need to give Jose and blame the "squad rebuilding" line and complaining about the squad he has inherited.

He has signed Matic and Pogba? yes, can they play together in 4-2-3-1? As proven - No. Do we have adequate cover in midfield to rest Matic who is criminally overworked? No. Is Pogba performing at a level he should based on his ability? No.

Have any of our attacking players improved under Jose? I would argue Lingard has, and I would say Lukaku is doing well, but not significantly better than he was at Everton. Have Martial, Mata or Rashford flourished under Jose's tactics? Absolutely not.

Our defence is pretty solid, statistic wise but we all know Blind/Darmian are deadwood as they never feature under Jose. Smalling/Jones have been around for years, they're not top drawer and injury prone. We insist on playing Young at fullback when an actual fullback Shaw sits on the bench.

The fact we switch our teams entire formation for Pogba to play on the left of a midfield 3 (his favourite position) tells me that Jose cannot coach this player to play in a system we have played most of the season, 4-2-3-1. Why on earth a player of his ability cannot understand what Jose wants from him is either the players issue, or the way he is being coached/trained.

Its not all rosey with jose, he has a lot of flaws but the acceptance of this negative football and being content isn't good enough for a utd fan. We are turning into Liverpool without even realising it
 


Saw this re DDG and thought it was interesting with regard to Mourinho’s approach also. It doesn’t seem to tally with a lot of the narratives of the season eg that Mourinho has often sacrificed expressive, attacking football for solid, low risk defensive football. The stat would suggest that if DDG gets an injury or hits a bad patch of form, we’ll regress to the mean which, if you believe the oft derided XG, would mean we probably wouldn’t be in second place in the league for very long (similar to how Burnley seemed to be overperforming to an unsustainable level earlier in the season).
 
Brophs said:


Saw this re DDG and thought it was interesting with regard to Mourinho’s approach also. It doesn’t seem to tally with a lot of the narratives of the season eg that Mourinho has often sacrificed expressive, attacking football for solid, low risk defensive football. The stat would suggest that if DDG gets an injury or hits a bad patch of form, we’ll regress to the mean which, if you believe the oft derided XG, would mean we probably wouldn’t be in second place in the league for very long (similar to how Burnley seemed to be overperforming to an unsustainable level earlier in the season).
Click to expand...


De Gea was not needed until Bailly and Jones had an injury and we regularly started playing Smalling and Lindelof.

Jose did fix us last season when de Gea was not needed that much. At that time, Herrera was making some good tackles and interceptions to shield our defense, and we had fit Smalling doing well beside Bailly, with Jones chipping in. This season, Matic has done well, but playing every minute of every game sometimes causes him to lose focus. And since we lost Bailly and Jones, the dependence on de Gea has increased due to Smalling-Lindelof pair being a ticking time bomb.

It isn't the manager's fault entirely, he is doing what he can with the available personnel.
 
Kapardin said:
De Gea was not needed until Bailly and Jones had an injury and we regularly started playing Smalling and Lindelof.

Jose did fix us last season when de Gea was not needed that much. At that time, Herrera was making some good tackles and interceptions to shield our defense, and we had fit Smalling doing well beside Bailly, with Jones chipping in. This season, Matic has done well, but playing every minute of every game sometimes causes him to lose focus. And since we lost Bailly and Jones, the dependence on de Gea has increased due to Smalling-Lindelof pair being a ticking time bomb.

It isn't the manager's fault entirely, he is doing what he can with the available personnel.
Click to expand...
On the first point, I don't have the stats to hand, but if, in the period when Bailly and Jones were playing together, DDG "was not needed" -and based upon my recollection of Bailly being up and down this season when he has played, that doesn't sound entirely right to me - then it suggests that, not just in terms of individual players, but also systemically, something has gone wrong, as it means that in the period of the season when those two players were not available together, we have conceding a large enough number of chances to bring the figure averaged out over 30 odd games to a noticeably high average figure (without even mentioning that SAF was a more attacking manager than Mourinho, which would suggest his sides ought to have been conceding more chances, albeit that will obviously be offset by the chances not conceded due to us being more dominant). Fwiw, neither Smalling nor Lindelof are my favourite players, but pinning the blame on the latter given how few games he has played, doesn't seem to answer the entirety of the question. Likewise, a lot of people were hailing Jones as one of the best centre halves in the country when he was in that run of form, but those stats, even averaged out, would suggest we were far from watertight even when he was in good form.

I'm not really making any point about it being the manager's fault, more pointing out that for a side who try to close down the games against bigger sides, DDG having to face so many shots/make so many saves would suggest (to me at least) the narratives about Mourinho giving us a solid defensive base etc. probably doesn't come close to telling the whole story.

On the last point, I agree to an extent, but he's almost 2 years here. I'm not sure how much longer the whole 'It's not his squad' can be put forward on his behalf. At this point, four windows in, if he hasn't managed to replace the players that apparently aren't good enough, then that's either his issue, or something he needs to take up with the club. The players that have survived this long are his players, IMO.
 
One thing that has really surprised me is the team very rarely look motivated when starting games. I thought that this was one of Mourinho’s strengths?

I miss the days when we would start every game at 100mph and every player was willing to give every last ounce for Ferguson.
 
Garethw said:
One thing that has really surprised me is the team very rarely look motivated when starting games. I thought that this was one of Mourinho’s strengths?

I miss the days when we would start every game at 100mph and every player was willing to give every last ounce for Ferguson.
Click to expand...

Mourinho’s approach with this team has been to conserve and contain in the early stages as he’s recognised that teams set out to press us early and generally run out of steam. It’s worked for the most part, results wise, not great watching though as it exacerbates the notion that we’re a lot worse than we are.
 
Garethw said:
One thing that has really surprised me is the team very rarely look motivated when starting games. I thought that this was one of Mourinho’s strengths?

I miss the days when we would start every game at 100mph and every player was willing to give every last ounce for Ferguson.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that rarely happened under Ferguson too - which is why they had a lot of late spectacular comebacks!
 
I know if we lose there will be some very dramatic posts but lineup wise, this is probably the best it could have got.

But I'm sure some people here will find a way post-match on why Darmian, Lindelof, Carrick, Romero or Fellaini should have started.
 
I think a huge feck up from him has been our midfield situation. How the feck can it be almost 2 years in and we are playing a home game against Liverpool with no options but to play a midfield 2 with matic and mctominay and not even anyone to make it a 3? Mctominay isn't even premier league level currently while matic can't run a midfield on his own, struggles without a 3, and is overplayed because we can't rest him anyway.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
I know if we lose there will be some very dramatic posts but lineup wise, this is probably the best it could have got.

But I'm sure some people here will find a way post-match on why Darmian, Lindelof, Carrick, Romero or Fellaini should have started.
Click to expand...
Young at left back is never the best it could get. He's been a liability since day 1 at that position and it shows every week.
 
bosnian_red said:
I think a huge feck up from him has been our midfield situation. How the feck can it be almost 2 years in and we are playing a home game against Liverpool with no options but to play a midfield 2 with matic and mctominay and not even anyone to make it a 3? Mctominay isn't even premier league level currently while matic can't run a midfield on his own, struggles without a 3, and is overplayed because we can't rest him anyway.
Click to expand...

I think it's a fair criticism and not a new one either.

Earlier in the season when Pogba was injured and people rolled out the 'but our best player is injured so we can't be too critical' I couldn't believe it.
I mean firstly he's not our best player and secondly, why the feck don't we have a back-up that can play a similar role? Why don't we have suitable back-ups for all our players?

I don't get it.
 
bosnian_red said:
I think a huge feck up from him has been our midfield situation. How the feck can it be almost 2 years in and we are playing a home game against Liverpool with no options but to play a midfield 2 with matic and mctominay and not even anyone to make it a 3? Mctominay isn't even premier league level currently while matic can't run a midfield on his own, struggles without a 3, and is overplayed because we can't rest him anyway.
Click to expand...

Tbf we are missing three CMs pretty much. Herrera and Pogba are injured while Fellaini obviously can't start with so little match fitness. Carrick has also developed a serious health problem as well.

Now I would agree there is an issue with overall quality of the players and that will need to be sorted in the summer.
 
Minimalist said:
I think it's a fair criticism and not a new one either.

Earlier in the season when Pogba was injured and people rolled out the 'but our best player is injured so we can't be too critical' I couldn't believe it.
I mean firstly he's not our best player and secondly, why the feck don't we have a back-up that can play a similar role? Why don't we have suitable back-ups for all our players?

I don't get it.
Click to expand...

Well Fellaini was injured at the same time...
 
haram said:
Well Fellaini was injured at the same time...
Click to expand...
The thing is, our performance levels drop loads with just pogba out (before, when he was actually performing). Herrera and fellaini also being out sucks, but neither are really pogba replacements. Herrera is best replacing Matic, fellaini is decent in a 3 alongside both pogba and matic but would struggle in a 2 and not give us much on the ball. Plus his contract shit was known last summer. It's not a balanced set of midfielders at all, and not good depth at all. Asking for trouble.
 
bosnian_red said:
The thing is, our performance levels drop loads with just pogba out (before, when he was actually performing). Herrera and fellaini also being out sucks, but neither are really pogba replacements. Herrera is best replacing Matic, fellaini is decent in a 3 alongside both pogba and matic but would struggle in a 2 and not give us much on the ball. Plus his contract shit was known last summer. It's not a balanced set of midfielders at all, and not good depth at all. Asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

Well that’s the point in gradually building the squad. Next year we will have new CM’s and fullbacks. It’s more unlucky that at various times in the season we have had multiple injuries in midfield.
 
Capture.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That narrow back four was an incredible move. Completely denied Salah of the space he likes to operate in.
 
That was very good overall, first half was absolutely excellent.

Second half tactics were risky though.
 
Pexbo said:
Mourinho’s approach with this team has been to conserve and contain in the early stages as he’s recognised that teams set out to press us early and generally run out of steam. It’s worked for the most part, results wise, not great watching though as it exacerbates the notion that we’re a lot worse than we are.
Click to expand...

Funny, I came to that exact same realisation in the first half of the Palace game.

Let them run around daft, keep it tight, and hope they make a mistake or just tire themselves right out.
 
Cannot complain overall. Needed a win and we got it. Liverpool have been scoring for fun and we stopped them (Bailly had to help them out).

Second half was troublesome given how much ground we gave up but as somebody pointed out - didn't look like Mourinho was happy with that either.

Needs to probably figure out a better balance for how to sit back and actually look dangerous on the break. That was the big issue - we didn't cause them enough problems in the second half when we could break away.
 
We've beaten Chelsea and Liverpool in the space of a few weeks.

These games were becoming a big problem and it's good to see that he (we) have made steps to sorting it out.
 
Definitely had a big stock in today's win. The first half was perfectly executed. It was pragmatic and not always pretty but tactically sensible to bypass Liverpool's pressure and the entire midfield when we had no ball-players there.

Second half we came out way to deep but Mourinho did well to stabilise us, even though I was livid with the Fellaini sub at first.

Basically he showed what we already know: He's an outstanding reactionary tactician. Really good at adapting to the opposition. What we're still not seeing enough is that he can create a tactical template that lets us dictate the terms.
 
Minimalist said:
Cannot complain overall. Needed a win and we got it. Liverpool have been scoring for fun and we stopped them (Bailly had to help them out).

Second half was troublesome given how much ground we gave up but as somebody pointed out - didn't look like Mourinho was happy with that either.

Needs to probably figure out a better balance for how to sit back and actually look dangerous on the break. That was the big issue - we didn't cause them enough problems in the second half when we could break away.
Click to expand...

It's more doable when you have attacking players that can relieve the pressure, Sanchez seemed to be giving it away for the first 20 minutes of the second half and Mata barely got the ball. When we're able to counter-attack better we won't be pinned back as much (e.g. compare how the Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez team would've countered that space vs what happened today)
 
First half was a masterclass. Nullified them completely. I had questions of him heading into our difficult run but thus far he's steered us on the right path. Onto Seville now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.