Yeap, let's put ALL the blame on the manager and his coach team. For sure if they coach 'properly', ALL our players will obey and follow, then will become world class FOR SURE and will GUARANTEE to give great performances EVERY game. Players' form, performance, moral, motivations and even intentions are all because of the manager's rubbish managing, rubbish coaching and rubbish system. Like robots, no personal motivation nor personal intentions. Manager rubbish, hence players rubbish. Don't blame players, blame the manager.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
- Status
Honestly, I never thought he will go gang-ho in his approach for victory.
He was so determine for today win is refreshing to see.
He was so determine for today win is refreshing to see.
He's being comical in this game. This isn't the only incident, there's that falling over one at the touchline and calling our GK way far back to the touchline. I find it funny.
Agree, it's very unexpected and way off unlike him usually. Total attacking football tactical changes.
He actually did it a few times last season. Even when we were 1-0 up. I think I remember West Ham away last season being one of those games.
(source)
Calling De Gea over made perfect sense. The entire team were caught up in celebrations and he wanted to make sure he could set them up tactically and have someone calm them down and refocus them. There was still enough time for the ball to be launched forward and concede.
We look so much better when players start "fighting" a bit, it's probably down to alot of things including coaching when it doesn't go our way but our players need to get a bit tougher. Higher workrate, a bit more physical, we have some big boys in the squad that can use their size and strength to bully opponents.
Our lack of intensity is baffling.
It's happened so many times that it looks intentional. Then I think, surely the coach can't be happy with it?
It's happened so many times that it looks intentional. Then I think, surely the coach can't be happy with it?
Actually wait...were you intentionally trying to be funny? If so, apologies for the green smilies. But otherwise
We dropped our LB, RB and holding CM for two wingers and an attacking LB, that's a move SAF would've made and been praised for. The way we played the 1st half lacked intensitity, the 2nd after the substitutions was different, Palace were tiring and although they had chances, ours came more frequent. Of course we should've been attacking Palace more from the get go but as we know, football doesn't always work like that, they're a good team at home backed by a great atmosphere.
For going for it against a Palace side beating us 2-0 at the time and we looked like we didn't have any idea how to break them down.
Ah yes that masterpiece - playing with one CB while everyone else is attacking if I recall correctly, then once we've won, sub in a CB to make us back more balance, which a lot of pundits and posters praised lavishly afterwards, then next game start back the hate.
Still, too rare, not enough for my liking. Maybe Jose will only do this against small teams league games. Hope not, but the jury is still out.To be fair, he hardly deserves credit for going for it when we were 2-0 down. We had precisely nothing to lose at that point by throwing caution to the wind. He would deserve credit if he sent us out to attack like that from the start, or when the game was level, or even if we were only one down. If you didnt throw everything at them when you were two down youd have to ask some serious questions.
But he does deserve credit for making the right subs and for getting the reaction from the players.
Good. Can hardly blame him either. We just seem so passive at times its infuriating. I'm sure its partly how he wants them to set up, but players need to show more as well.
Not sure there are any quick fixes with players we have atm. He needs to work out whether he trusts Shaw or not and play him, failing that I hope he signs a pair of full backs in the summer.
Good to know. We have high standard, at least the manager is on the same wavelength, calling for it.
He's definitely the world's best at in-game management.
Love it when his teams score a late goal and he immediately knows what needs to be done to secure the points. Saw it last night when he was speaking to DDG and I think it happened at Chelsea when they scored a late goal and he joined the pile-on just to give instructions, can't remember who it was against though.
Love it when his teams score a late goal and he immediately knows what needs to be done to secure the points. Saw it last night when he was speaking to DDG and I think it happened at Chelsea when they scored a late goal and he joined the pile-on just to give instructions, can't remember who it was against though.
Yeah, I thought of what happened with Klopp a few weeks ago when I saw how he reacted to our winner. Happy days.
Yeah, that was a really fantastic interview all things considered. Really interesting insight into why he made the changes he made and what he thought was going wrong. Clear displeasure with how the team had played, and not swept up with the emotion of the comeback.
Some of the moaners that think Mourinho doesn't know what he's doing would do well to watch it.
Would love for someone to find the Chelsea goal again. There was a huge pile-on, he sprinted the length of the pitch to join it and pulled out Torres so he could tell him how the team should set up.
Another example is United vs Madrid in 2013... within moments of the Nani sending off, he was ready to bring on Modric and from that point we didn't get close.
I was just wondering what people make of these comments from some fans and whether there is a little agreement, the fans are right, or completely delusional. These were after the game yesterday
"The lesson from today is simple:
Get the ball. Go forward. Try to score.
Stop this rubbish defending and over analytical tactical rubbish Jose. We looked like a semi decent team when we were forced to attack.
Here Jose was, throwing his toys out the cot- but he has done it time and time again. We look on good form and then we have a fixture against a fairly big team and set up defensively. (Think Liverpool start of season. Or every time we had a CL game.)
We go on and look utterly woeful, lose all form and take weeks, if not months to recover. We haven’t gotten out of this rubbish defensive form since I don’t know when. It’s been like this for months now. First time we attack in like half a year and we score three goals in 30 minutes."
"After playing like a bunch of drunk pub players in the first half it was absolutely magnificent to see us fight back so brilliantly in the second half. 17 shots in the second half and 3 goals – Mourinho should seriously consider changing his default tactics because we were so much better when he went to plan B.
I must give Mourinho top marks for the substitutions he made after Hodgson had surprised us with the 2 strikers up front. He really seemed to enjoy himself on the touchline out there today, he was so animated and passionate throughout – great to see.
Our performance was so error strewn in the first half – especially from Sanchez and Pogba who were so wasteful in possession and playing too narrow.
In any case, that was a magnificent comeback win. Our second in a row after the Chelsea comeback. As we all know, comeback wins are the best for team morale. GGMU!!"
"The lesson from today is simple:
Get the ball. Go forward. Try to score.
Stop this rubbish defending and over analytical tactical rubbish Jose. We looked like a semi decent team when we were forced to attack.
Here Jose was, throwing his toys out the cot- but he has done it time and time again. We look on good form and then we have a fixture against a fairly big team and set up defensively. (Think Liverpool start of season. Or every time we had a CL game.)
We go on and look utterly woeful, lose all form and take weeks, if not months to recover. We haven’t gotten out of this rubbish defensive form since I don’t know when. It’s been like this for months now. First time we attack in like half a year and we score three goals in 30 minutes."
"After playing like a bunch of drunk pub players in the first half it was absolutely magnificent to see us fight back so brilliantly in the second half. 17 shots in the second half and 3 goals – Mourinho should seriously consider changing his default tactics because we were so much better when he went to plan B.
I must give Mourinho top marks for the substitutions he made after Hodgson had surprised us with the 2 strikers up front. He really seemed to enjoy himself on the touchline out there today, he was so animated and passionate throughout – great to see.
Our performance was so error strewn in the first half – especially from Sanchez and Pogba who were so wasteful in possession and playing too narrow.
In any case, that was a magnificent comeback win. Our second in a row after the Chelsea comeback. As we all know, comeback wins are the best for team morale. GGMU!!"
He's literally unfazed with the celebration and spiked emotion at those moments isn't he.Last season, he did the same with Smalling as the bench erupted happily and Smalling there was going to celebrate, pure gold.
Last season, he did the same with Smalling as the bench erupted happily and Smalling there was going to celebrate, pure gold.
Yes, I love it!
Need a cool head in those situations.As nicely as I can, the hate towards Mourinho is strong with these young padawans. I sense great force of impatience with these ones. Also, the kind of football fans who love simple easy football I suppose - the type of so obvious attacking direct style of football. Few of the comments are fair.
reminds me of the old Jose.
Last season, he did the same with Smalling as the bench erupted happily and Smalling there was going to celebrate, pure gold.
Complete and utter hyperbole mixed with strawmanning the feck out of people's genuine grievances over how we're coached.
What do you know.
Pep would coach martial into messi while jose would turn martial into ashley young.
Imagine the money we could save if we being pep instead of mourinho. We will end up with 2 messi in martial and rashford, not to mention danny alves in valencia and pogba herrera will turn into xavi and inniesta reincarnate.
In 2 years time we can sell marmessi for record fee, buy back memphis and turn him into another messi.
Profit.
@BusbyMalone It's a deliberate attempt. I can understand the frustrations and why many people would like to be assured as to why we're underperforming so to speak, but to totally put the blame wholely on the leader and his staff in this case is too easy and what's the better word again(?), maybe being oblivious and putting the rest of the other performers i.e. the players in the shadow devoid from any criticisms. Personally not really like to play this Game of Blame, as everyone plays a part in it, from the manager to the coaches to the players, everyone should start performing better. Can't see much faults so far with Jose bar the few suspect things he did, but is it really that bad. Well everyone of us supporters of the club are entitled for their opinions I suppose relating to the style of play and how we've been coached. Apologies if it sounds too inappropriately offensive.
There's been plenty of criticism of our players. Go into the Lukaku thread, the Pogba thread, the Sanchez thread, the Matic thread, etc, etc...
But we're in the Jose thread so obviously he's going to be the main focus of criticism. And, at the end of the day, whether you think it's fair or not, the manager will ALWAYS take the main brunt of criticism. Conversely, if the team plays well, he will often take nearly all the plaudits, too. So that's just the way it is. And no, it's not all bad. We've improved from where we were last year and previous years. But there's genuine grievances to be had over how we are coached and he should take a lot of criticism for that.
And there's no need to apologise. You wasn't offensive and nobody is right to wrong in these debates.
RiferFull Member
"Yeap, let's put ALL the blame on the manager and his coach team. For sure if they coach 'properly', ALL our players will obey and follow, then will become world class FOR SURE and will GUARANTEE to give great performances EVERY game. Players' form, performance, moral, motivations and even intentions are all because of the manager's rubbish managing, rubbish coaching and rubbish system. Like robots, no personal motivation nor personal intentions. Manager rubbish, hence players rubbish. Don't blame players, blame the manager."
end quote.
Rifer, I do enjoy your irony in mocking the pro-players brigade, but fear that you yourself have nonetheless unfortunately fallen into the trap of the general blame game. Instead of blaming players vs. manager or viceversa, in a simple binary split it may be rather more fruitful to look on the obvious and specific failings of our performances over the season in terms of responsibility ( in terms of outcomes as points accrued, we have indeed improved slightly).
As regards our poor performances, there is no clear binary opposition here between (i) the manager and his team of coaches and (ii) the players. But there certainly is an emerging dynamic and that dynamic is obviously and unfortunately failing. If the manager and coaches are unable to communicate a coherent game plan and fall short of getting the best out of their personnel then that is without a doubt their responsibility (just as in all matters of business management and all walks of life).
Playing the best, first eleven in best formation consistently, communicating a coherent gameplan, motivation of individual players, coached passing movements, building fluent passages of play, getting the players to know their roles and building team chemistry are all the responsibility of management and coaching and they have been failing abysmally. Why do we never press our opponents as a team? Not coached.
First half last night we look like a team of alienated b-movie , zombie stiffs struggling to step through wet concrete. At least in the movies the zombies march in unison and generally in the same direction. They have a unifying goal, albeit articulated in an autistic solidarity of the group's devouring desire for human flesh. In comparision we have the same individual zombie autism without the solidarity. We look absolutely clueless as regards being aware of any coherent unified plan toward achieving our goal.
The players who were individually and collectively shyte in the first half last night, certainly have some responsibility. The come-back at Selhurst Park was more to do with Palace dropping their performance level than anything else and should not mask how poor we were in falling 2-0 down to a relegation threatened side. It is glaringly obvious that some current United players simply can’t be relied upon to perform to their highest level right now.
This problem leaves Mourinho with two possibilities, the first is yet another clear out in the summer and half a new team brought in for mega bucks. The tranfer muppets will be ecstatic but this will still lesve us with the refreshed problem of player integration and lack of team chemistry.
So what about the second possibility? The simple idea of actually improving (which means changing) our coaching in order to improve the players should be given a try. Coach a contemporary style to unlock todays ultra defensive lesser teams and to counter the high press of the better teams. Develop patterns of play, encourage confident build up by carrying the ball forward from defence and practise interlinking, slick passing from the back with players coached into finding pockets of space for.quick release and if we lose the ball then we high press. This way we will get the most out of our undoubtedly talented footballers without sacrificing defensive stability.
Ultimately it is the direction of the performance which is totally failing. What exactly are the directions. Fall back, keep rigidly to your spot and let the opponents come on to us and then just see what happens??
Where is the freedom, the excitement, the fluency and chemistry? The danger ? It's been coached out of the performers, the stale conservative and rigid direction means the footballers can not express themselves and so deliver the stale boring football.
Mourinho has become a neoliberal, risk-free, safety first, vampire coach sucking the blood out of United.
The footballers and supporters must shut up and live life with all the bloody enjoyment sucked out of our bodies.
United to be consumed as a detoxified commodity.
Like the finest wine with 0% alcohol.
Decaffeinated coffee.
Love without danger.
Football without risk.
Not really worth it.
In order to improve motivation, encorage team chemistry and get the best out of our players individually the management, gameplanning and coaching approach needs a radical shake-up.
Developing a new more contemporary approach to coaching will go a long way toward uniting players and management in their mutual trust and hopefully as fans we can leave behind the temporary split that (we see here on Redcafe) into pro- management versus pro-player camps.
The question now is whether José and coaching can adapt. He's not covinced me that he can but we live in hope. If he can not turn itvaround I'm not sure we should give him another season in all honesty.
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Critics are fine, and valid. But most of the time its over the top and demeaning as frankly speaking jose is our manager.
Whenever people are bringing some perspective into the equation it's shot down as top red and all sort of nasty rhetorics.
By all means critize the manager and his decision, it's everyone's prerogative but to call jose outdated, a dinosaur, a specialist in failure, stubborn, etc and asking for him to be sacked, while at the same time bigging up pochetinno is irritating.
I get it poch is the rising star in the managerial industry, but i find it embarassing for united fans to berate their current manager and openly fantasizing on our rival manager who's still managing them.
Where most of the other fans forum ridicule and diminished rival manager achivement we are actively diminishing our own manager in favor of rival manager. Jose got no benefits of doubt, everything he does is undermined not by rival fans but his own supporters.
Things like "he spents alot", "he's a 3 year doom bringer" and all that are supposed to be said by rival fans, not our own fans. It seems that our own fans finds it very hard to even support their manager, and using excuses and punch line our rivals should be using.
It's like saying saf is just successful because we're the biggest and richest team in the country during epl, it's like saying saf had it easy with no competition and how saf being lucky with the class of 92, you know... all those sorts of jibes rival fans used to belittle his achivement.
Already we're seeing this thrown alot. "Jose won a single race title with inter", "jose got it easy with blank cheque at chelsea", "jose fails at madrid, and falls out with half the squad", even when jose extend his contract his haters goes so low into saying he did that to get a bigger compensation when he got bored with us, jose this jose that.
What little good jose did is being painted as not down to him, unbeated record broken ... due to his negative tactics. Winning 2 cups is seen as a coward because he rested some player in the league. Buying pogba and sanchez even got him critized as clueless and ostrichezing martial. Damned if he does damned if he doesnt. Hell some people even goes so far as belittling our last season europa cup win as a nothing cup, even when we are united and should aspire to win bigger trophies what sort of fans belittling their own team achivement, no matter how trivial it may seems to someone.
I love the guy, he's my favorite manager after saf and it pains me to see him being slated by the fans of his own team.
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A bit over-dramatic.
Apparently our coaching plan is 'obviously failing'. So I assume everyone else is obviously failing as well except City then?
No one cares about these nonsense things like 'coherent attacking plan' in the football world. Virtually every top coach in the world allows their attacking players freedom to improvise in the final third, including the lord and savior Guardiola. Klopp plays Firmino whose movement creates space for other players, this isn't something in his coaching method because he played with a relatively static forward in Lewandoski at Dortmund.
The difference between these coaches is NOT their attacking coaching, it is their coaching of the defense and midfield. That is because the defense and midfield provide the platform for the attack. Managers like Conte, Mourinho, Allegri, Simeone will always look less fluid going forward than managers like Guardiola, Klopp, Sarri because of the way they structure the team. Coaching is always done within the context of a structure, LVG used to talk about it all the time (philosophy).
No one cares about these nonsense things like 'coherent attacking plan' in the football world. Virtually every top coach in the world allows their attacking players freedom to improvise in the final third, including the lord and savior Guardiola. Klopp plays Firmino whose movement creates space for other players, this isn't something in his coaching method because he played with a relatively static forward in Lewandoski at Dortmund.
The difference between these coaches is NOT their attacking coaching, it is their coaching of the defense and midfield. That is because the defense and midfield provide the platform for the attack. Managers like Conte, Mourinho, Allegri, Simeone will always look less fluid going forward than managers like Guardiola, Klopp, Sarri because of the way they structure the team. Coaching is always done within the context of a structure, LVG used to talk about it all the time (philosophy).
3/10, would not read again.
Quite true. I agree that he deserves to be criticised at certain times -- like his tactics during the Newcastle defeat -- but writing him off and fantasizing about the next hipster flavor of the month manager is a bit too much at this stage.
Luckily, I don't think he's aware of any negativity about him since the OT crowd generally appear to be behind him. And I am guessing his recent good mood has a lot to do with his contract extension and Ed's promise of a summer of goodies, so he obviously likes it here.
I loved our EL win by the way. Never felt it was a little cup, especially when it was a trophy we had yet to win and also after beating a satisfyingly historic club like Ajax.
Yep. Would love to be able to read and see a game the way he does. You can see why Bobby Robson was blown away by the match reports Jose used to come back with.
So, Martial can be easily coached to be better in movement - thats delusion. And you dont want to accept we are still second in the league - thats delusion again!
I have been hearing we are shit performance wise from gameweek1 of this season, and yet we have managed to do very well till now, and I am sure we will continue to do so. And to delusional fans like you, the world is about to end.
Actually wait...were you intentionally trying to be funny? If so, apologies for the green smilies. But otherwise
Come out of your delusional world and see the team as it is:
Our center halves - cannot make a decent pass. More often than not, 3 defenders are injured at any given time.
Our midfielder - cannot bother to track back, does not press enough.
NO one in whole team who can put a decent cross.
Forwards - do not move at all. Apart from one, others are goal shy.
If not for Jose, we would see more results like MK DOns 4-0 United; Cambridge 0-0 United; MIdtjylland 2-1 United.
RiferFull Member
"Yeap, let's put ALL the blame on the manager and his coach team. For sure if they coach 'properly', ALL our players will obey and follow, then will become world class FOR SURE and will GUARANTEE to give great performances EVERY game. Players' form, performance, moral, motivations and even intentions are all because of the manager's rubbish managing, rubbish coaching and rubbish system. Like robots, no personal motivation nor personal intentions. Manager rubbish, hence players rubbish. Don't blame players, blame the manager."
end quote.
Rifer, I do enjoy your irony in mocking the pro-players brigade, but fear that you yourself have nonetheless unfortunately fallen into the trap of the general blame game. Instead of blaming players vs. manager or viceversa, in a simple binary split it may be rather more fruitful to look on the obvious and specific failings of our performances over the season in terms of responsibility ( in terms of outcomes as points accrued, we have indeed improved slightly).
As regards our poor performances, there is no clear binary opposition here between (i) the manager and his team of coaches and (ii) the players. But there certainly is an emerging dynamic and that dynamic is obviously and unfortunately failing. If the manager and coaches are unable to communicate a coherent game plan and fall short of getting the best out of their personnel then that is without a doubt their responsibility (just as in all matters of business management and all walks of life).
Playing the best, first eleven in best formation consistently, communicating a coherent gameplan, motivation of individual players, coached passing movements, building fluent passages of play, getting the players to know their roles and building team chemistry are all the responsibility of management and coaching and they have been failing abysmally. Why do we never press our opponents as a team? Not coached.
First half last night we look like a team of alienated b-movie , zombie stiffs struggling to step through wet concrete. At least in the movies the zombies march in unison and generally in the same direction. They have a unifying goal, albeit articulated in an autistic solidarity of the group's devouring desire for human flesh. In comparision we have the same individual zombie autism without the solidarity. We look absolutely clueless as regards being aware of any coherent unified plan toward achieving our goal.
The players who were individually and collectively shyte in the first half last night, certainly have some responsibility. The come-back at Selhurst Park was more to do with Palace dropping their performance level than anything else and should not mask how poor we were in falling 2-0 down to a relegation threatened side. It is glaringly obvious that some current United players simply can’t be relied upon to perform to their highest level right now.
This problem leaves Mourinho with two possibilities, the first is yet another clear out in the summer and half a new team brought in for mega bucks. The tranfer muppets will be ecstatic but this will still lesve us with the refreshed problem of player integration and lack of team chemistry.
So what about the second possibility? The simple idea of actually improving (which means changing) our coaching in order to improve the players should be given a try. Coach a contemporary style to unlock todays ultra defensive lesser teams and to counter the high press of the better teams. Develop patterns of play, encourage confident build up by carrying the ball forward from defence and practise interlinking, slick passing from the back with players coached into finding pockets of space for.quick release and if we lose the ball then we high press. This way we will get the most out of our undoubtedly talented footballers without sacrificing defensive stability.
Ultimately it is the direction of the performance which is totally failing. What exactly are the directions. Fall back, keep rigidly to your spot and let the opponents come on to us and then just see what happens??
Where is the freedom, the excitement, the fluency and chemistry? The danger ? It's been coached out of the performers, the stale conservative and rigid direction means the footballers can not express themselves and so deliver the stale boring football.
Mourinho has become a neoliberal, risk-free, safety first, vampire coach sucking the blood out of United.
The footballers and supporters must shut up and live life with all the bloody enjoyment sucked out of our bodies.
United to be consumed as a detoxified commodity.
Like the finest wine with 0% alcohol.
Decaffeinated coffee.
Love without danger.
Football without risk.
Not really worth it.
In order to improve motivation, encorage team chemistry and get the best out of our players individually the management, gameplanning and coaching approach needs a radical shake-up.
Developing a new more contemporary approach to coaching will go a long way toward uniting players and management in their mutual trust and hopefully as fans we can leave behind the temporary split that (we see here on Redcafe) into pro- management versus pro-player camps.
The question now is whether José and coaching can adapt. He's not covinced me that he can but we live in hope. If he can not turn itvaround I'm not sure we should give him another season in all honesty.
Describe moyes, simeone, conte for me pls. It'll be a nice reading.
Ability sucking vampire ... space jam baby
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