Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Shiva87]

For all of his flaws, he’s been working on a constant compromise since he’s been at United, whereas Guardiola’s been ‘signing’ his players while he was still at Bayern. Jose has had the make do and be resourceful; if they swapped squads, I think Pep would be doing a lot worse than Mourinho currently is.

He clearly doesn’t want Shaw and covets Rose, but has had to use Ashley Young instead. He wanted Eric Dier, Woodward couldn’t deliver so he’s had to eventually mould McTominay into a similar player instead. He’s tried to get the best out of the moody Martial and primadonna Pogba, but has had to meet them half way by creating a new system to accommodate their laziness.

Pep has a £300m+ defence and goalkeepers, while Jose’s got something generally respectable out of Smalling and Jones plus Ferguson’s old wingers; context indeed.

Jose has maximised Lingard’s talent while accommodating Mata, a player he previously discarded, and accepted Lukaku, another player who he’s previously binned and who’s dubious hold up play suggests he wouldn’t have been an ideal choice for him, but once again I imagine he’s complied with the fact that Wooodward’s been wooed by Mino Raiola’s marketable mercenaries.

Mourinho has been desperate for an orthodox winger, ideally either Willian or Perisic, but again Woodward failed to deliver players who in reality he probably only half-arsedly pursued due to their lack of marketability and #hashtag friendly name. Sanchez doesn’t have that desired skill set, but he’s a star, so Ed found a way....

There are a few of identifiable faults in Mourinho’s work here so far; for me his relucatance to utilise Shaw or Rashford properly, but overall he’s doing well. If he could simply play fantasy football without a budget like Pep has, and sign players completely compatible with his football identity, I’d back him to match, or even overall eclipse what the Catalan cretin has done so far.

People criticise his default 4-2-3-1 and the sometimes disfunctional attacking transition it breeds, but it’d run a hell of a lot smoother if he was allowed to buy players who could actually fit into it properly ie a striker with a reasonable touch and genuine wide players.

Wow, you have got to be joking for some parts of this! Player purchases being driven by Marketability and not Jose is just paper talk. What about Lindelof and Bailly? Were either of them glamorous?

Anyway, if Sanchez is available for a steal then you go for him. Specially if his moving to your biggest opponents for the League would widen the gap for the next few years.

He missed out on only 1 target so far - Perisic. The board has given him pretty much every other signing he has asked for.

His problem really has been the defensive injuries to Bailly and Pogba being out for a lot of the first half of the season with injury. But there is no reason he can't get this team to play better football in the attacking third.

I want him to stay because he is our best chance to trump Guardiola's City, but he has got to make use of his squad better!

 

[Z1L3]

This is a brilliant post.

Apparently Mourinho doesn't play Martial in his best position, doesn't play Pogba in his best position, is past it as a manager, has outdated tactics - Laughable when he is outwitting the current Champions of England.

Thanks, mate. I always knew I was brilliant

 

[Sky1981]

Not sure of this was directed at me or you replied to the wrong post? I was generally praising Mou.

Wasn't aimed at you. honestly

 

[Hasawi Red]

Results with style is what defined United. Yea there were some necessary adjustments to style when needed to win during Fergi's reign, however, those were the exceptions not the rule. With Jose i feel people who are defending him are solely focusing on results which he is not doing an amazing job with yet. So, if he gets ok enough results this and next season and his style hasn't improved then he should be changed. And by ok nothing less then 3rd and going far in the cups with the odd trophy in between them.

If he gets amazing results (no less then 2nd in the league and very close to 1st, and semifinal or more in CL) with his current style then he can stay longer but United need to look for a change for the long term as United's decision makers need to set a criteria on what is accepted at the club both in terms of results and style.

Also, LVG and Moyes's teams should not be used as a measuring stick especially next season. It just reaffirms that expectations has fallen badly since the great Ferguson retired.

 

[Siorac]

That's a different story. But the point is beautiful football without winning anything gets stale fast

Wenger won three FA Cups in the last four years.

 

[Vinnie Peetang]

For those who think Mourinho is not achieving United’s lofty heights, I ask the same question I ask my Wenger out friends. Who do you think can do better? The usual suspects - Sarri, Allegri, Simeone, either do not have experiences in a 6 way tussle for trophies, or they don’t play a swashbuckling style of football. I do not believe Pochettino is that good either. Once he loses Kane, Spurs will be below Arsenal again. Jose is the best option short of Pep. Its the nature of the Premier League, money and great managers, that makes it so hard. Have patience and we will reap the rewards.

 

[Stacks]

Voted the second option even if that will never happen (him getting sacked, not falling out of the top 4). I just think this team is so boring to watch, even in high-scoring games. There isn't much of an identity, most players fail to perform to their level consistently. It's just unacceptable from a manager of Mourinho's pedigree to have a team that still looks like they've just started playing with one another, and that was even before Sanchez came into the picture.

This is what I chose and similar reasoning. I would rather we not have to change manager again though.
Have we improved? of course we have and finishing 2nd in this league is not too shabby. Are performances much better? sometimes. Do we still have issues in both offence and defence? yes. Are our players consistently performing to their best level? nope (bar De Gea). Can I see where this team is heading? not really. Feel as though we feeling our way in the dark and just buying players and "hoping" they work together as opposed to a methodical approach. The negative voice in me feels that any attacking player we sign will under perform to some extent.

 

[Adebesi]

For those who think Mourinho is not achieving United’s lofty heights, I ask the same question I ask my Wenger out friends. Who do you think can do better? The usual suspects - Sarri, Allegri, Simeone, either do not have experiences in a 6 way tussle for trophies, or they don’t play a swashbuckling style of football. I do not believe Pochettino is that good either. Once he loses Kane, Spurs will be below Arsenal again. Jose is the best option short of Pep. Its the nature of the Premier League, money and great managers, that makes it so hard. Have patience and we will reap the rewards.

Precisely this. This is what it always comes back to, for me.

I have my moments when I grumble about Mourinho. He is far from perfect. We are far from perfect. I am not at all convinced we will challenge for the title next year. I feel more dread going into big games than I used to in the SAF days, and I would love for that to change, but it will take more than one win against Chelsea.

But I do not see anyone better. I might be tempted to take a punt on Poch, but quite honestly I dont think he would be doing any better - in terms of results, anyway. Not so sure about managers abroad, but anyone who doesnt have experience of the PL is going to be a risk.

For now I think we are best advised to stick with Mourinho and let him continue his build. We may not overhaul City but I am sure we will improve.

Im not sure Arsenal are in the same position as us though. The atmosphere there is toxic and I think in their case its probably got to the point where they need a change for its own sake. It wont necessarily launch them back to the top of the PL, but it should placate the fans that they are trying something different.

 

[AP88]

Wow, you have got to be joking for some parts of this! Player purchases being driven by Marketability and not Jose is just paper talk. What about Lindelof and Bailly? Were either of them glamorous?

Anyway, if Sanchez is available for a steal then you go for him. Specially if his moving to your biggest opponents for the League would widen the gap for the next few years.

He missed out on only 1 target so far - Perisic. The board has given him pretty much every other signing he has asked for.

His problem really has been the defensive injuries to Bailly and Pogba being out for a lot of the first half of the season with injury. But there is no reason he can't get this team to play better football in the attacking third.

I want him to stay because he is our best chance to trump Guardiola's City, but he has got to make use of his squad better!

Fake news.

He wanted Bale, Griezmann, Dier, Willian, Rose, Perisic, all of whom would specifically suit his system, but has had to compromise.

I agree Sanchez was a good acquisition, but he’s not the winger Mourinho has coveted for the past 2 years; he’s a versatile forward. And to suggest he isn’t getting the best out of those at his disposal is a bit odd when he’s second in the league with that defence, what’s predominantly been an unbalanced midfield and the collection of lazy forwards he has had to work with.

Regarding the attacking football, or lack of it; it’s because his system requires a certain kind of player to make it function in an attacking context. He needs players who can stretch play, beat a man on the outside, provide constantly quality crosses and beat a man on , something none of Mata, Rashford or Martial can do.
It requires a centre forward who can control a ball and bring others into play, something Lukaku can’t do and leads to attacks constantly breaking down.

The 4-2-3-1 gets a lot of criticism but if he is allowed to acquire the right players for it, it’ll be hugely effective; he is currently working with a number of tactical misfits in Pogba, Martial and Lukaku, and this sabotages his system of choice.

 

[BigCaine]

Fake news.

He wanted Bale, Griezmann, Dier, Willian, Rose, Perisic, all of whom would specifically suit his system, but has had to compromise.

I agree Sanchez was a good acquisition, but he’s not the winger Mourinho has coveted for the past 2 years; he’s a versatile forward. And to suggest he isn’t getting the best out of those at his disposal is a bit odd when he’s second in the league with that defence, what’s predominantly been an unbalanced midfield and the collection of lazy forwards he has had to work with.

Regarding the attacking football, or lack of it; it’s because his system requires a certain kind of player to make it function in an attacking context. He needs players who can stretch play, beat a man on the outside, provide constantly quality crosses and beat a man on , something none of Mata, Rashford or Martial can do.
It requires a centre forward who can control a ball and bring others into play, something Lukaku can’t do and leads to attacks constantly breaking down.

The 4-2-3-1 gets a lot of criticism but if he is allowed to acquire the right players for it, it’ll be hugely effective; he is currently working with a number of tactical misfits in Pogba, Martial and Lukaku, and this sabotages his system of choice.

Rose and Bale are perma crocks, his selections look like a self sabotage, good thing someone saw sense and changed targets.

The perisic vs martial question can again be answered by a look at their nos this season, martial is outperforming perisic in a stronger league. Whoever's not listening to mourinho seems to be doing a great job.

Griezmann not coming had nothing to do with man utd, also Milito, Drogba, Benzema and Costa aren't exactly comparable to Griezmann in any way. So we can clearly discount the Mourinho needs a particular type to succeed.

Also are you saying he didn't want pogba?

We are underachieving because given the start we had we should be a lot closer to City and lot farther from Liverpool. He parks the bus against every half decent team and can't even do that well as it is DDG who bails him out. Take De gea and replace him with any keeper in the world and we will have much lesser points than we do.

You talk about wanting crosses in the box, remind me how good in the air do you think Griezmann would be in PL or Lukaku is?

Klopp saw after the first season is team can't play the geggen press for a whole season and he toned it down to suit the pl, Fraudiola converted Silva and De Bruyne in to mf's and stopped his stupid insistence of having fb's play as mf's once he figured out it doesn't work without alaba and lahm. When mourinho is asked to do the same it is sabotage.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Rose and Bale are perma crocks, his selections look like a self sabotage, good thing someone saw sense and changed targets.

The perisic vs martial question can again be answered by a look at their nos this season, martial is outperforming perisic in a stronger league. Whoever's not listening to mourinho seems to be doing a great job.

Griezmann not coming had nothing to do with man utd, also Milito, Drogba, Benzema and Costa aren't exactly comparable to Griezmann in any way. So we can clearly discount the Mourinho needs a particular type to succeed.

Also are you saying he didn't want pogba?

We are underachieving because given the start we had we should be a lot closer to City and lot farther from Liverpool. He parks the bus against every half decent team and can't even do that well as it is DDG who bails him out. Take De gea and replace him with any keeper in the world and we will have much lesser points than we do.

You talk about wanting crosses in the box, remind me how good in the air do you think Griezmann would be in PL or Lukaku is?

Klopp saw after the first season is team can't play the geggen press for a whole season and he toned it down to suit the pl, Fraudiola converted Silva and De Bruyne in to mf's and stopped his stupid insistence of having fb's play as mf's once he figured out it doesn't work without alaba and lahm. When mourinho is asked to do the same it is sabotage.

Just to offer a different view:

We are P:28 W:18 D:5 L:5 + have the joint 2nd best GD in the league & sit in 2nd place.

We have drawn with:
Liverpool (A) - hardly a bad result
Soton (H)
Leicester (A) - this was v disappointing
Burnley (H)
Stoke (A) - this was v disappointing

We have lost to:
City (H) - hate losing a derby but they are easily the best PL team this yr
Huddersfield (A) - this was a shocker
Newcastle (A) - this was v disappointing
Spurs (A)
Chelsea (A)

The PL is ridiculously competitive and whilst we have dropped some silly points (those bolded above) it's hardly been a disaster so far. Are we underachieving or are City warping everyone's expectations? Teams always pick up the odd annoying draw/shock loss and for all the talk of parking the bus we are level on GD with Liverpool and above them in the table. Some games haven't been pretty but we have generally been functional and have seen glimpses, albeit fleeting, of some younger players really developing this season and some really good goals.

 

[SirAF]

Just to offer a different view:

We are P:28 W:18 D:5 L:5 + have the joint 2nd best GD in the league & sit in 2nd place.

We have drawn with:
Liverpool (A) - hardly a bad result
Soton (H)
Leicester (A) - this was v disappointing
Burnley (H)
Stoke (A) - this was v disappointing

We have lost to:
City (H) - hate losing a derby but they are easily the best PL team this yr
Huddersfield (A) - this was a shocker
Newcastle (A) - this was v disappointing
Spurs (A)
Chelsea (A)

The PL is ridiculously competitive and whilst we have dropped some silly points (those bolded above) it's hardly been a disaster so far. Are we underachieving or are City warping everyone's expectations? Teams always pick up the odd annoying draw/shock loss and for all the talk of parking the bus we are level on GD with Liverpool and above them in the table. Some games haven't been pretty but we have generally been functional and have seen glimpses, albeit fleeting, of some younger players really developing this season and some really good goals.

It was a disaster to draw with Burnley and Soton at home too, other than that I agree 100% with your post.

 

[Stacks]

Just to offer a different view:

We are P:28 W:18 D:5 L:5 + have the joint 2nd best GD in the league & sit in 2nd place.

We have drawn with:
Liverpool (A) - hardly a bad result
Soton (H)
Leicester (A) - this was v disappointing
Burnley (H)
Stoke (A) - this was v disappointing

We have lost to:
City (H) - hate losing a derby but they are easily the best PL team this yr
Huddersfield (A) - this was a shocker
Newcastle (A) - this was v disappointing
Spurs (A)
Chelsea (A)

The PL is ridiculously competitive and whilst we have dropped some silly points (those bolded above) it's hardly been a disaster so far. Are we underachieving or are City warping everyone's expectations? Teams always pick up the odd annoying draw/shock loss and for all the talk of parking the bus we are level on GD with Liverpool and above them in the table. Some games haven't been pretty but we have generally been functional and have seen glimpses, albeit fleeting, of some younger players really developing this season and some really good goals.

don't agree and at the current points per game, we finish on 80pts to City's 101. lets hope that doesn't happen

 

[Jeffthered]

The result against Chelsea has helped him, and this is due to the fact that he is still yet to convince the fans, or players of a team strategy (we have no attacking strategy at all, which is nuts...) that is either progressive, or will realistically challenge and possibly win the Prem or the CL. Of course it's competitive, but that is hardly unique. My concern is that with other clubs literally a point or two behind us, we are flirting with a top four spot, and I see Liverpool and Tottenham has having a more settled system of play, and a fairly clear direction in terms of how they go about their games. Liverpool, Tottenham, Man City are all confident against anyone. I would add Chelsea to that list, but the manager and the Club have fallen out and that's a shame really. But Chelsea have a style of play.

We on the other hand, approach many games with so much caution, and this is not only ugly and uninspiring to watch... it also inhibits the attacking credentials and potential of the (attacking) players... places too much pressure on defensive players (hence DDG probably player of the year, again...).. and finally, and this is important, does not reflect the traditions of the club. Man United without an attacking strategy is unforgivable... how can we just accept that?

His external narrative, presentation, petulant issues with other managers are all about him, rather than Man Utd and I cannot stand him for that. I also have a huge distaste as to how he has treated some players in the Press etc. Shaw, Pogba, Smalling... this isn't good at all.

So for me, he isn't quite the right fit. I don't accept this nonsense about 'well, who else would we have if he were to leave..' ... are you telling me Man United cannot attract another decent manager?

If we finish outside top four, and do not win CL, then he has to take a walk for me. I wouldn't give him another penny.. if he wants to buy, he has to sell.

 

[Sky1981]

The result against Chelsea has helped him, and this is due to the fact that he is still yet to convince the fans, or players of a team strategy (we have no attacking strategy at all, which is nuts...) that is either progressive, or will realistically challenge and possibly win the Prem or the CL. Of course it's competitive, but that is hardly unique. My concern is that with other clubs literally a point or two behind us, we are flirting with a top four spot, and I see Liverpool and Tottenham has having a more settled system of play, and a fairly clear direction in terms of how they go about their games. Liverpool, Tottenham, Man City are all confident against anyone. I would add Chelsea to that list, but the manager and the Club have fallen out and that's a shame really. But Chelsea have a style of play.

We on the other hand, approach many games with so much caution, and this is not only ugly and uninspiring to watch... it also inhibits the attacking credentials and potential of the (attacking) players... places too much pressure on defensive players (hence DDG probably player of the year, again...).. and finally, and this is important, does not reflect the traditions of the club. Man United without an attacking strategy is unforgivable... how can we just accept that?

His external narrative, presentation, petulant issues with other managers are all about him, rather than Man Utd and I cannot stand him for that. I also have a huge distaste as to how he has treated some players in the Press etc. Shaw, Pogba, Smalling... this isn't good at all.

So for me, he isn't quite the right fit. I don't accept this nonsense about 'well, who else would we have if he were to leave..' ... are you telling me Man United cannot attract another decent manager?

If we finish outside top four, and do not win CL, then he has to take a walk for me. I wouldn't give him another penny.. if he wants to buy, he has to sell.

We hardly had every top manager signalling interest post saf. Let alone post moyes

 

[Jeffthered]

We hardly had every top manager signalling interest post saf. Let alone post moyes

So you don't think Manchester United are able to attract another decent manager?

 

[Sky1981]

So you don't think Manchester United are able to attract another decent manager?

I doubt pochetinno gonna quit his job if united come calling next year.

Unless you're referring to 2nd tier manager then we'd better off with jose

 

[BigCaine]

Just to offer a different view:

We are P:28 W:18 D:5 L:5 + have the joint 2nd best GD in the league & sit in 2nd place.

We have drawn with:
Liverpool (A) - hardly a bad result
Soton (H)
Leicester (A) - this was v disappointing
Burnley (H)
Stoke (A) - this was v disappointing

We have lost to:
City (H) - hate losing a derby but they are easily the best PL team this yr
Huddersfield (A) - this was a shocker
Newcastle (A) - this was v disappointing
Spurs (A)
Chelsea (A)

The PL is ridiculously competitive and whilst we have dropped some silly points (those bolded above) it's hardly been a disaster so far. Are we underachieving or are City warping everyone's expectations? Teams always pick up the odd annoying draw/shock loss and for all the talk of parking the bus we are level on GD with Liverpool and above them in the table. Some games haven't been pretty but we have generally been functional and have seen glimpses, albeit fleeting, of some younger players really developing this season and some really good goals.

City have had an unbelievable season, but that still doesn't absolve mourinho for me.

I understand a shock result like we had at Huddersfield or the loss at Chelsea we were awful and sometimes such things happen but the rest, especially Liverpool and City games were pathetic.

Liverpool away on paper this is a OK result but look at Liverpool's results prior to the game, 1 win 2 defeats and 4 draws in their last 7 games. And we did not even try to attack.

The whole Christmas was an utter disaster. 1 draw is bad luck but 3 back to back is just incompetence.

The City game was another unbelievable game, mourinho picks 4 forwards and all but 1 of them is actually asked to attack add to it the genius tactics of wanting to play hoof ball and then benching your only cb who can actually pass.

On all these occasions players are also at fault but mourinho is the foremost guilty party.

 

[Kapardin]

The whole Christmas was an utter disaster. 1 draw is bad luck but 3 back to back is just incompetence.

Funny thing is, in Jose's first season, we had a storming Christmas period where we couldn't stop winning and yet remained 6th.

Still maintain the Burnley draw was ok, they have been tough for top 6 teams, even at home. The other two draws should have been wins though.

 

[redIndianDevil]

@redIndianDevil

Did the win upset you? Had stuff to say prior to the game but have seemed to disappear

Do you not enjoy us winning?

Disgrace.

Prior to the match, did I ever say I wanted us to lose or something? I pointed out the deficiencies in our team and how the manager hasn't fixed those in his 1.5 years. Did all the problems magically disappear in the Chelsea game? No, but we won still. I'd be happy to post the problems in our team even after the Chelsea victory, but people like you are already bashing legitimate concerns of our fellow fans for pointing out the problems even after period of poor form, imagine what would happen if I posted them after a win.

It's not about Manchester United for you, it's about rubbing it in others face about how superior and correct you are if not you wouldn't act in this silly way. Even if we had lost the Chelsea game, I(any grownup for that matter) wouldn't go about tagging people who expressed their support for Mourinho and show them how correct I was, I still would have only posted about the problems in our team.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Just to offer a different view:

We are P:28 W:18 D:5 L:5 + have the joint 2nd best GD in the league & sit in 2nd place.

We have drawn with:
Liverpool (A) - hardly a bad result
Soton (H)
Leicester (A) - this was v disappointing
Burnley (H)
Stoke (A) - this was v disappointing

We have lost to:
City (H) - hate losing a derby but they are easily the best PL team this yr
Huddersfield (A) - this was a shocker
Newcastle (A) - this was v disappointing
Spurs (A)
Chelsea (A)

The PL is ridiculously competitive and whilst we have dropped some silly points (those bolded above) it's hardly been a disaster so far. Are we underachieving or are City warping everyone's expectations? Teams always pick up the odd annoying draw/shock loss and for all the talk of parking the bus we are level on GD with Liverpool and above them in the table. Some games haven't been pretty but we have generally been functional and have seen glimpses, albeit fleeting, of some younger players really developing this season and some really good goals.

It's not about the result always is it? The problem is with the performance really. A point at Anfield is always good but the cowardly performance we put in was bad. There is a huge difference between being defensive and being a Pulis type WBA or Stoke.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Is it fair to say that although the team has stalled a bit, many individuals are making reasonable and necessary progress?

Bring another two or three quality players to complete the picture. Add to that, improvement in consistency and maturity of a number of our younger players and an overall gelling of the system.

It’s going to be an important summer, but it’s inconceivable to me that we aren’t going to be much better next year. It just remains to be seen if it’s quite good enough.

 

[Hawks2008]

.It's not about Manchester United for you, it's about rubbing it in others face about how superior and correct you are if not you wouldn't act in this silly way. Even if we had lost the Chelsea game, I(any grownup for that matter) wouldn't go about tagging people who expressed their support for Mourinho and show them how correct I was, I still would have only posted about the problems in our team.

I find it is like this with many posters rather than just the one you responded to. Many on here care more about being right than they do about the team they supposedly love.

 

[Kapardin]

Is it fair to say that although the team has stalled a bit, many individuals are making reasonable and necessary progress?

Bring another two or three quality players to complete the picture. Add to that, improvement in consistency and maturity of a number of our younger players and an overall gelling of the system.

It’s going to be an important summer, but it’s inconceivable to me that we aren’t going to be much better next year. It just remains to be seen if it’s quite good enough.

I am worried about the lack of attacking signings. We need that RW to give us further impetus in attack, or we won't progress much no matter how many midfielders we sign.

And for the love of whatever, some FBs please. Definitely a RB, and if Shaw can't be anything more than an understudy, get a proper LB. Sight for sore eyes that will be, to see two actual FBs bombing the flanks.

 

[Shiva87]

Fake news.

He wanted Bale, Griezmann, Dier, Willian, Rose, Perisic, all of whom would specifically suit his system, but has had to compromise.

So you have this on good authority? Is Jose a friend. Apart from Perisic and Griezmann, none of the others can be serious targets. He said both summers that he wants 4 signings. He got 4+3.

I agree Sanchez was a good acquisition, but he’s not the winger Mourinho has coveted for the past 2 years; he’s a versatile forward. And to suggest he isn’t getting the best out of those at his disposal is a bit odd when he’s second in the league with that defence, what’s predominantly been an unbalanced midfield and the collection of lazy forwards he has had to work with.

That defense (with DDG) is actually quite good. It is not shambles like everyone wants to portray. We could do with a better LB - but otherwise we are well stocked. Unbalanced midfield and lazy forwards? Sorry I don't follow you there. It's a bit convenient to first say that all his signings were forced on him, and because of that the players he chose are 'unbalanced or lazy'. That's the best midfield we have had in years (including last 3-4 of Fergie's seasons).

He has got to get them to get better in both a defensive and attacking sense. He is the manager and ultimately responsible for their performance. I don't think we could have been top this season - but we should have been well clear of 3rd (Liverpool!) by now. Would you say that their squad is more balanced than ours??

Regarding the attacking football, or lack of it; it’s because his system requires a certain kind of player to make it function in an attacking context. He needs players who can stretch play, beat a man on the outside, provide constantly quality crosses and beat a man on , something none of Mata, Rashford or Martial can do.
It requires a centre forward who can control a ball and bring others into play, something Lukaku can’t do and leads to attacks constantly breaking down.

And so the solution is to sell 5 players - two of whom he has bought (Lukaku and Sanchez) - and go on a fishing trip for some players who are unavailable? Wouldn't it be easier if the manager adapts his system to get the best out of his players as well?

The 4-2-3-1 gets a lot of criticism but if he is allowed to acquire the right players for it, it’ll be hugely effective; he is currently working with a number of tactical misfits in Pogba, Martial and Lukaku, and this sabotages his system of choice.

That's an obvious statement. Every system is very effective if it has the right players! That's the point of tactical systems. That's why managers learn to build a specific philosophy of play into any identifiable system. The problem with Jose is not the system but his philosophy - or the lack of one!

For the record, I think Jose should stay because he has built a squad worthy of winning a lot of trophies and success is always a process. But I find it hard to agree with your logic!

 

[Di Maria's angel]

It's not about the result always is it? The problem is with the performance really. A point at Anfield is always good but the cowardly performance we put in was bad. There is a huge difference between being defensive and being a Pulis type WBA or Stoke.

Nah, I don't think so. Had we been around 5 points behind City, atm, not many would be complaining about the performances.

I'm still a firm believer that the performances aren't even as bad as some make out. Yes, we have had poor performances but everyone does. There are many here who won't budge on their beliefs and still maintained that we played poorly vs Chelsea.

Unless you're stating that the performances were bad in the games where we dropped points, in which case, certain were quite bad. City and Southampton were dreadful games, particularly the latter. But again, had we picked up a few extra points here and there, we just wouldn't be complaining as much.

 

[BigdaftGorby]

Jose is the greatest manager ever....he will take Man Utd to the heights that have have never before been reached. We will win the World Cup!

His tactics and players are the best that Utd have ever had.

Due to the new censorship laws being passed on this forum I have to ask, am I doing this right?
And they say free speech is a given.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Jose is the greatest manager ever....he will take Man Utd to the heights that have have never before been reached. We will win the World Cup!

His tactics and players are the best that Utd have ever had.

Due to the new censorship laws being passed on this forum I have to ask, am I doing this right?
And they say free speech is a given.

Absolutely dreadful.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It was a disaster to draw with Burnley and Soton at home too, other than that I agree 100% with your post.

Yh I see those teams as tricky customers so whilst we should have won, I am not overly shocked that we drew. Huddersfield still shocks me, can't believe we dropped 3 points there + the Leicester last minute equalizer still gets me

It's not about the result always is it? The problem is with the performance really. A point at Anfield is always good but the cowardly performance we put in was bad. There is a huge difference between being defensive and being a Pulis type WBA or Stoke.

Whilst we aren't playing beautiful football, we are still winning things. I agree we should be playing better overall but we're above Liverpool & Spurs (who are playing awesome football) because we are a counter attacking team and, as boring as it sometimes is, not conceding is pretty key to winning football games. We are among the favorites now for the FA Cup, 2nd in the PL (although that is gone) and still in the CL (however unlikely it is we win that). This won't be a hugely successful season on the trophy front but we're in the race for some silverware and should retain CL football next year.

 

[SirAF]

Yh I see those teams as tricky customers so whilst we should have won, I am not overly shocked that we drew. Huddersfield still shocks me, can't believe we dropped 3 points there + the Leicester last minute equalizer still gets me

Yeah, tricky but must win if you want to challenge for the title imo. The bread and butter for winning the title is beating all the "lesser" teams at home.

 

[haram]

Prior to the match, did I ever say I wanted us to lose or something? I pointed out the deficiencies in our team and how the manager hasn't fixed those in his 1.5 years. Did all the problems magically disappear in the Chelsea game? No, but we won still. I'd be happy to post the problems in our team even after the Chelsea victory, but people like you are already bashing legitimate concerns of our fellow fans for pointing out the problems even after period of poor form, imagine what would happen if I posted them after a win.

It's not about Manchester United for you, it's about rubbing it in others face about how superior and correct you are if not you wouldn't act in this silly way. Even if we had lost the Chelsea game, I(any grownup for that matter) wouldn't go about tagging people who expressed their support for Mourinho and show them how correct I was, I still would have only posted about the problems in our team.

We just beat Chelsea and you had nothing good to say. I never said you had to suddenly change you opinion on matters generally. It’s funny seeing people blast our team and when we win a big game they dissapear. If we had lost you would have been in here talking it all.

It’s not about being ‘superior’ or ‘correct’ or whatever. Everyone has their opinion. It’s a different thing when people only want to be negative.

This isn’t about being right or wrong about Mourinho. This wasn’t any ordinary game either, it was an important one. You would have posted if we had lost. You didn’t do so because we won. That’s what I don’t agree with. You can have your opinion. I have a different one. That’s not my point here.

 

[Varun]

Jose is the greatest manager ever....he will take Man Utd to the heights that have have never before been reached. We will win the World Cup!

His tactics and players are the best that Utd have ever had.

Due to the new censorship laws being passed on this forum I have to ask, am I doing this right?
And they say free speech is a given.

If you're trying to live up to your username, then Yes.

 

[PlayerOne]

That second-half performance was what I have been expecting from a Mourinho managed team in the big teams. All the players knew their roles, pressed and attacked at the right time. Hopefully he sticks with the same midfield and attack, and let's them building an understanding.

He needs to sort out those slow starts though, can't keep giving teams good chances at start of the game.

 

[AndyJ1985]

It's not the first good result we've had against a top 6 team and it won't be the last. Even LVG managed to beat our rivals. Our problem is and has always been consistency. I still have no confidence we'll turn up and play well against Crystal Palace. We never know from one week to the next how we'll play. One result will never change my opinion on a manager or a player. If we can consistently play well as a team then I'd be delighted and I'd love nothing more than for Mourinho to be a success here. But for me the bigger picture suggests his tactics are outdated, his style is boring, and ultimately it isn't going to cut it at the very top. Time will tell I suppose

 

[roonster09]

Jose is the greatest manager ever....he will take Man Utd to the heights that have have never before been reached. We will win the World Cup!

His tactics and players are the best that Utd have ever had.

Due to the new censorship laws being passed on this forum I have to ask, am I doing this right?
And they say free speech is a given.

How hard is it to understand simple posts? No one said you can't say anything negative about players or manager.

 

[Jonno]

You think there was title race just because Chelsea won title in may 12th or something?
From Feb to April, Gap between 1st and 2nd was always 9=10 points. Only in April (Game week 19, gap was cut down to 7 points). Closest 2nd team came since probably December.

Game week 33 was the closest any team came close to Chelsea with only 4 points gap and by Game 35, gap was again 7 points.

So gap between 1st and 2nd was 4 points for 2 weeks in 4-5 months and you think there was a race.

Re bold part, this coming from a guy who played down SAF achievements to big up Jose is hilarious.

Good day. I'm done with you, not worth it.

I didn't play down SAF's achievements to big up Jose at all. Clearly you're a sensitive fan and I've stepped on a nerve. Chin up, I merely stated that there are more big sides in the Premier League now than in SAF's era. Regardless of title races, the fact is, if we compare the top 6 now to the top 6 in 1999 for example:

Now:

City,
United,
Liverpool
Spurs
Chelsea
Arsenal

1999:

United
Arsenal
Chelsea
Leeds
West Ham
Aston Villa

If you think that is even comparable to todays top 6, then you need to give your head a wobble, seriously.

I wouldn't play down SAF's achievements at all, the point I was making, was if Fergie's United had a bad season, and finished 3rd by default, then in todays game, he would have been at risk of finishing 5th or 6th. That's plainly obvious. A bad season in 1999 results in finishing 3rd for a club of United's size.

 

[roonster09]

I didn't play down SAF's achievements to big up Jose at all. Clearly you're a sensitive fan and I've stepped on a nerve. Chin up, I merely stated that there are more big sides in the Premier League now than in SAF's era. Regardless of title races, the fact is, if we compare the top 6 now to the top 6 in 1999 for example:

Now:

City,
United,
Liverpool
Spurs
Chelsea
Arsenal

1999:

United
Arsenal
Chelsea
Leeds
West Ham
Aston Villa

If you think that is even comparable to todays top 6, then you need to give your head a wobble, seriously.

I wouldn't play down SAF's achievements at all, the point I was making, was if Fergie's United had a bad season, and finished 3rd by default, then in todays game, he would have been at risk of finishing 5th or 6th. That's plainly obvious. A bad season in 1999 results in finishing 3rd for a club of United's size.

He won league titles with Carrick and Cleverley in midfield, won games against Arsenal with Rafael, Fabio, O'Shea and Gibson in midfield and you are saying SAF would have finished 6th if he had bad season. This is the manager who didn't finish below 2nd since 2006 and only time he finished 2nd was with 1 point and on GD.

You need to take out Jose's posters in your bed room and start reading how good SAF was.

PL was stronger in late 2000s when PL teams made Semi finals regularly, wonder which team dominated PL back then.

Also just 2 seasons ago Leicester and Southampton finished in top 6. So much for 6 super teams.

 

[Jonno]

He won league titles with Carrick and Cleverley in midfield, won games against Arsenal with Rafael, Fabio, O'Shea and Gibson in midfield and you are saying SAF would have finished 6th if he had bad season. This is the manager who didn't finish below 2nd since 2006 and only time he finished 2nd was with 1 point and on GD.

You need to take out Jose's posters in your bed room and start reading how good SAF was.

PL was stronger in late 2000s when PL teams made Semi finals regularly, wonder which team dominated PL back then.

Also just 2 seasons ago Leicester and Southampton finished in top 6. So much for 6 super teams.

Lol.... I am a massive Fergie fan. I was born in 87, he's been a footballing father / idol / hero to me all of my life. I intently listen to everything he says and take it as golden. Please do not question my loyalty to Fergie. I've met the guy 3 times, had dinner with him at a Manchester United Reserve cup final game, chatted with him for a good half hour and it was one of the best moments of my life. He's twice the manager Mourinho will ever be and easily the greatest of all time. That doesn't mean he didn't have off seasons, every human-being would have an off season in 27 years.

And come on, a bad season in 1999 would give you 3rd, in 2017 it gives you 6th because of the closeness of the points and quality of the big 6. If you can't recognise the quality of the opposition then and now then we are done here. Aston Villa or Chelsea, come on. Aston Villa had Vassell as their striker, an obese Merson in their squad, how you can compare that kind of opposition to Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal is beyond me.

 

[roonster09]

Lol.... I am a massive Fergie fan. I was born in 87, he's been a footballing father / idol / hero to me all of my life. I intently listen to everything he says and take it as golden. Please do not question my loyalty to Fergie. I've met the guy 3 times, had dinner with him at a Manchester United Reserve cup final game, chatted with him for a good half hour and it was one of the best moments of my life. He's twice the manager Mourinho will ever be and easily the greatest of all time. That doesn't mean he didn't have off seasons, every human-being would have an off season in 27 years.

And come on, a bad season in 1999 would give you 3rd, in 2017 it gives you 6th because of the closeness of the points and quality of the big 6. If you can't recognise the quality of the opposition then and now then we are done here. Aston Villa or Chelsea, come on. Aston Villa had Vassell as their striker, an obese Merson in their squad, how you can compare that kind of opposition to Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal is beyond me.

Off season for SAF is not same as off season for others. ManUtd getting so many points in his last 7-8 years should answer you that. Since 2006, lowest points we had was 80 points, rest all seasons we had 86-90 points. That's how consistent he was. He adapted to modern game, changed his methods and consistently scored high number of points. Before when the competition was not as intense, we started season slow and usually won league titles in 70s or low 80s points. Since Jose came to England, he adapted his methods and got high 80s. And you are saying he might finish 5th or 6th just because we had few clowns managing us after he left.

Not even sure why you keep on going back to 1999 when the PL was at his best in late 2000s when ManUtd dominated like no other team did.
Chelsea with awesome team,
Arsenal with Fabgregas, Nasri, RVP, Clichy, Sagna and few other good players.
Liverpool had Alonso, Mascha, Torres, Gerrard.

That's 4 very good players but only 1 team was in title race as ManUtd was super consistent in getting points. Even now it would have been the same. SAF was master in getting lot of points and we wouldn't have worried about other teams so much.

Also only in 1 season more than 2 teams recorded more than 80 points in a season. Since SAF retired.
2014-15: Only Chelsea scored more than 80 points
2015-16: Only Leicester
2016-17: Chelsea, Spurs

SAF consistently scored high 80s in a season.

Edit: Yeah there is nothing to argue here. Just that few are trying to downplay SAF for some reason.

 

[Jonno]

Off season for SAF is not same as off season for others. ManUtd getting so many points in his last 7-8 years should answer you that. Since 2006, lowest points we had was 80 points, rest all seasons we had 86-90 points. That's how consistent he was. He adapted to modern game, changed his methods and consistently scored high number of points. Before when the competition was not as intense, we started season slow and usually won league titles in 70s or low 80s points. Since Jose came to England, he adapted his methods and got high 80s. And you are saying he might finish 5th or 6th just because we had few clowns managing us after he left.

Not even sure why you keep on going back to 1999 when the PL was at his best in late 2000s when ManUtd dominated like no other team did.
Chelsea with awesome team,
Arsenal with Fabgregas, Nasri, RVP, Clichy, Sagna and few other good players.
Liverpool had Alonso, Mascha, Torres, Gerrard.

That's 4 very good players but only 1 team was in title race as ManUtd was super consistent in getting points. Even now it would have been the same. SAF was master in getting lot of points and we wouldn't have worried about other teams so much.

Also only in 1 season more than 2 teams recorded more than 80 points in a season. Since SAF retired.
2014-15: Only Chelsea scored more than 80 points
2015-16: Only Leicester
2016-17: Chelsea, Spurs

SAF consistently scored high 80s in a season.

Edit: Yeah there is nothing to argue here. Just that few are trying to downplay SAF for some reason.

You seem to have got seriously offended by misinterpreting my point completely. Am I comparing Fergie to Mourinho? No. (There is no comparison, Fergie is hands down a better manager).

I am comparing the quality of the league in the middle of SAF's reign to get a good average of the quality of the league, compared to the quality of the league now with the top 6 spending hundreds of millions of pounds, with 7th-20th spending tens of millions of pounds. TV money now compared to then, you can't deny it. Fans see it, I hear pundits say it, even former United players and staff say that it's much harder to compete for the league now to then. Yet you're in complete denial. That doesn't make you more of a SAF fan than me, trust me. I am just open to interpreting the league for what it is. I don't take biased views.

Fact is, on the off seasons when we finished miles behind the leaders in 3rd place, in this day and age, the rivals wouldn't have been Aston Villa or Everton or whoever, it would have been Tottenham or Chelsea or Liverpool, so therefore you would struggle to finish in the top 5, whereas back in the 1990s and early 00's you could get away with finishing 3rd.

You're in complete denial if you think the PL is the same quality it is now to how it was for a large period of SAF's reign. 1986-2004 being more than half of his reign, the top 6 in that era wasn't anywhere near the top 6 of today. But I already know you're going to read this and accuse me of not rating Fergie - strange boy. I love Fergie, and think what he achieved is unprecedented success, and will never be repeated. He was unreal. Twice the manager of Mourinho, Poch, anyone. But just ignore that, again.