not sure the lack of intensity for the first 30 mins was his fault but we certainly improved and Lingard really improved us
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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The record isn't a disaster.
But moving forward, the games against the top 6 are getting more and more important.
We won't be winning the title anytime soon unless that record improves.
Erm, Chelsea clinched the title last season on 12th May. They hardly had it in the bag by February did they.
It's getting better though, and the more and more he assembles his own squad, the more and more I think he will get results. For example, a week ago, I bet nobody on the caf would have given us a chance to beat both Chelsea AND Liverpool in the league, however we're very much on course to do that which would be quite a dramatic turnaround to last season if you include the Spurs home win.
Yeah I don't get it, even when we won it's just cause Chelsea was worst. Well they were worst in part cause we were good. It works both ways.
I think Liverpool have shown that performing against the top 6 actually doesnt matter that much. They have had a brilliant record since Klopp joined yet sit below us this year, finished well behind Chelsea last year and failed to get into the top 4 two seasons ago.
A record like ours is good enough. There are certain games such as Huddersfield, Leicester, Burnley and Newcastle where we probabaly shouldnt have dropped any points. Win these and we would only be two points behind City.
Pretty easy answer for me. No doubt that he's improved us, both in terms of position and performance. This being said, we've been really clueless in attack for the majority of this season, relying on individual spark rather than a planned approach. I do think that after 2 season top 4 should be a must and if we fail that's on leadership. I'd go as far to say that if we don't make top 4 the upper management should also be rebuilt, not only the coaching staff.
I thought we saw very good defence under Mourinho but it's been getting worse. Of course, this could be due to the injuries. My larger concern is the randomness of our attacks. I'd understand being more cautious against the top 6 but the counters should be lightning. I also want to see more creativity in the games against the smaller clubs, creativity and control of the game. It's not nice to see Jonjo Shelvey boss the game.
I thought we saw very good defence under Mourinho but it's been getting worse. Of course, this could be due to the injuries. My larger concern is the randomness of our attacks. I'd understand being more cautious against the top 6 but the counters should be lightning. I also want to see more creativity in the games against the smaller clubs, creativity and control of the game. It's not nice to see Jonjo Shelvey boss the game.
I really enjoyed how we came from behind and won the game yesterday. iirc, there was a stat that showed we’ve scored the most goals via substitutes than any other team this season? #EffectingTheGame
Good to see a shift in the poll.
Good to see a shift in the poll.
We did it successfully away to Liverpool this season, away to Arsenal this season after we led 2-0 and away to City, last season. I can't think of another game in which we parked the bus. But I can think of games we have been outrightly outplayed during spells, like away to Chelsea and first half to Chelsea at home.
Must have really smart players since Jose apparently doesn't give attacking instruction
I voted for option three and I'm going to stick to it. I don't think he's the right manager to go forward for us. Our attack doesn't look coherent, our defense is basically dependent on whether De Gea has a good match or not in most of the matches and the midfield looks devoid of creativity.
Hopefully in four months or fifteen months or so, I'll be proved wrong and people will quote this and laugh at it but I sincerely doubt.
Hopefully in four months or fifteen months or so, I'll be proved wrong and people will quote this and laugh at it but I sincerely doubt.
I you think there was title race when Chelsea won it 3 seasons back, then I'm not surprised you think there are 6 super teams in PL.
We are in our 3rd rebuild cycle post Sir Alex. Unlike under the previous 2 managers, this one holds some promise, at least in terms of results. I would rather give time to Mourinho to complete the rebuild and try to lead this team to success (PL/CL Trophy) before we hand it over to some other manager. Bringing in a new manager at this point can potentially disrupt the whole rebuilding cycle and we may have to start from scratch once again. On the flip side, a new manager can come in and utilize the players more efficiently and get them playing and performing to their potential. Is that risk worth taking? At this point of time, I think not. Starting all over again will just break the morale of the whole club and will take us further back.
If we finish top 3 which is highly likely then allow Mourinho to compete the rebuild by bringing in 2 midfielders and 2 fullbacks in summer ,additional CB or attacker if there are outgoings but then he needs to win either Pl or Cl or atleast put credible challenge unlike this season to continue further with us.
If that's the game plan, we're pretty poor at executing. Once we have the ball, it takes us forever (and 24 touches) until we finally move forward.
The problem with Mourinho is really that he is very negative in his approach. He does not believe that his team could dominate but is just reactive. Hence we look so shit at times and why we are unable to win against Newcastle or Sevilla
We are entering a period in which Jose's personality will test the mentality of this club. We are seeing rumors of dressing room uncertainties and declining quality of football, but none of the major achievements that we were expecting.
Given that there was a consensus that Jose would be a short term appointment to bring back the winning culture of the club, in that respect he isn't living up to my standards.
I do recognize that this season has been taken over by the mammoth figure that is citeh, which has prevented any aspirations of PL success. So i would be willing to give him next season to attempt to clinch the league. If he werent to win it, he needs to leave. There is no long term plan that Jose could build that would be in line with the culture of this club, as I alluded to in the first paragraph - so I wouldnt give him the luxury of time.
Given that there was a consensus that Jose would be a short term appointment to bring back the winning culture of the club, in that respect he isn't living up to my standards.
I do recognize that this season has been taken over by the mammoth figure that is citeh, which has prevented any aspirations of PL success. So i would be willing to give him next season to attempt to clinch the league. If he werent to win it, he needs to leave. There is no long term plan that Jose could build that would be in line with the culture of this club, as I alluded to in the first paragraph - so I wouldnt give him the luxury of time.
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I guess this is the best thread to post this; it's something that makes me appreciate Mourihno as a manager.
Matic and McTominay were instructed to mark Willian and Hazard, which then left Pogba alone against two of Chelsea's central midfielders (on paper Chelsea played 343 and United 433). In order to cover the extra player, Mourihno instructed Sanchez to drop deeper on defense and help Pogba. It is obvious why Mourihno did this, as it is a very logical solution to a tactical problem. But why did he pick Sanchez for the task?
The obvious reason is that Sanchez was the right man for the job because of his work rate and determination. But I bet Mourihno also took the opportunity to put him into a position where he would have to sacrifice for the team at the expense of his own attacking play, and he did it in order to ingratiate Sanchez with his teammates. Also not a coincidence that he played Martial (the player whose place in the team Sanchez took) in a more attacking position, while having Sanchez do the dirty work and provide service to him and Lukaku.
These are the kinds of things that make Mourihno truly a special manager.
Matic and McTominay were instructed to mark Willian and Hazard, which then left Pogba alone against two of Chelsea's central midfielders (on paper Chelsea played 343 and United 433). In order to cover the extra player, Mourihno instructed Sanchez to drop deeper on defense and help Pogba. It is obvious why Mourihno did this, as it is a very logical solution to a tactical problem. But why did he pick Sanchez for the task?
The obvious reason is that Sanchez was the right man for the job because of his work rate and determination. But I bet Mourihno also took the opportunity to put him into a position where he would have to sacrifice for the team at the expense of his own attacking play, and he did it in order to ingratiate Sanchez with his teammates. Also not a coincidence that he played Martial (the player whose place in the team Sanchez took) in a more attacking position, while having Sanchez do the dirty work and provide service to him and Lukaku.
These are the kinds of things that make Mourihno truly a special manager.
Let's just kill ourselves.
2 trophies last season & likely to have our best PL season by far since SAF retired.
As far as winning culture goes I’d say he’s certainly on the right track.
I never debated whether we are heading there slowly...but if it doesnt happen next season then i feel he must leave. I just dont have much confidence in his long term plans to give him 2/3 more years.
So whoever long term manager you had in mind after jose needs to leave if he doesn't win the league.
That's your standard?
Great to see that there's 50% solid support for Jose. Around the holiday period I think it must have been somewhere around where this poll was at in its first few hours (before the win over Chelsea), around 20-25%. Sure, people have mentioned that they support him but are concerned, and would like to give him one more year before making a definitive judgement (I guess I'm in that group, but I am pretty convinced that he'll keep progressing us).
Wonder how a loss against Chelsea would have affected the poll.
He'll be backed by the board in the summer, he'll buy at least one midfielder, probably a full back. Hopefully he'll get rid of two centre backs and buys a top drawer one. Our squad is coming together quite nicely IMV.
Wonder how a loss against Chelsea would have affected the poll.
He'll be backed by the board in the summer, he'll buy at least one midfielder, probably a full back. Hopefully he'll get rid of two centre backs and buys a top drawer one. Our squad is coming together quite nicely IMV.
Was pretty torn between the first two. I can't say I'm happy but I also would prefer to avoid any more pointless upheaval. Hoping that Mourinho now knows exactly what he wants from the transfer market and who needs to leave. Right now I'm fairly confident we'll finish in the top four so I guess it's a moot point anyway.
Well you see, Mourinho is pegged as a 'short term' manager so he will be held to different standards. Rather than taking his performance on merit, it's easier just to reaffirm your pre-conceived notion.
Not to mention; he is the only short term manager that actually gets called as such.
Any manager that manages this club has in my opinion certain minimum requirements:
- CL football every season
- year on year progression
- regular trophies
it was sarcasm by the way
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@breakout67
I don't think it's fair to determine beforehand that Jose is here for the short-term. He came into a job where there were different criteria then he had at his other jobs. The board has just extended his contract, which if seen out, is 4 years. If he wins a major trophy next season I would fully expect the board to give him a fresh contract to tie him down for another 2-3 years. It also wouldn't make a great deal of sense from his position to take the United job with view to it being short-term when it was one hell of a rebuilding job.
I don't think it's fair to determine beforehand that Jose is here for the short-term. He came into a job where there were different criteria then he had at his other jobs. The board has just extended his contract, which if seen out, is 4 years. If he wins a major trophy next season I would fully expect the board to give him a fresh contract to tie him down for another 2-3 years. It also wouldn't make a great deal of sense from his position to take the United job with view to it being short-term when it was one hell of a rebuilding job.
He’s been a weird one.
The football can be horrendous. His treatment of difference makers has been odd. He looks depressed.
But there is a clear mentality change in the players. Compared to Moyes and Gaal we are definitely harder to beat which helps. We are more clinical with chances.
Despite all the questions, I still think he can do it. But you have to let Jose do it his way. It’s not always pretty, but it’s effective.
The football can be horrendous. His treatment of difference makers has been odd. He looks depressed.
But there is a clear mentality change in the players. Compared to Moyes and Gaal we are definitely harder to beat which helps. We are more clinical with chances.
Despite all the questions, I still think he can do it. But you have to let Jose do it his way. It’s not always pretty, but it’s effective.
If we drop out of the top 4 he'll come under intense scrutiny but I don't think we will post Chelsea game. That was massive for us.
The ability of this team vs the team under VG is much higher - yes we have spent a lot of money but the improvement is there for all to see. Sanchez will only get better as he gets accustomed to our systems and if we improve our defenders (especially full backs) and add a quality CM addition I think we can challenge the elite level of clubs where we want to be.
The ability of this team vs the team under VG is much higher - yes we have spent a lot of money but the improvement is there for all to see. Sanchez will only get better as he gets accustomed to our systems and if we improve our defenders (especially full backs) and add a quality CM addition I think we can challenge the elite level of clubs where we want to be.
I agree with you, I was just having a go at people that hold higher expectations for certain managers over others.
If we are better next season and narrowly miss the title and do well in other competitions, I see no reason not to let him have more time. As long as we are getting better and winning trophies then it's fair to let him work.
That’s exactly right.
Agreed. Think we will be challenging for major trophies next season. Mind, we're still within a shout this season, granted it's not likely.
He delivered all that, you still want him out
Presumably there are more minimum requirements:
Win majority of games against top 6 opposition.
Play with width: attack attack attack.
Always play Martial and Shaw on the left when fit.
Never be a horrid meanie to our players so they feel sad and might want to leave.
Win majority of games against top 6 opposition.
Play with width: attack attack attack.
Always play Martial and Shaw on the left when fit.
Never be a horrid meanie to our players so they feel sad and might want to leave.
Wow, the cafe really has gotten bad that I need to add white text to that. My apologies! I've added the white text for your convenience.
I think Mourinho has done enough to warrant more time at the club, and so long as we keep winning trophies and challenging in the PL and CL then I am happy with him.
Cough... wenger... cough...
That really didnt come across as sarcasm. At all.
Let's be fair. I'm one of mourinho fans. But if he failed to finished top 4 this season I'll be the first to join the critics brigade.
Last season was shit league wise, but fair play the EL saved his bacon. Not an excuse or defend, but fair play to him he put everything on that one match and it pull off.
Next season is top 2 minimum or unlucky close 3rd at worst.
But the problem is people has been critizing him non stop even when the league isn't over yet. It's like drawing a match in 70 minutes and they already slagged the team. Why not show your support and save your harsh critics when the league ends. Calling for the manager head while he's still on course for a 2nd position behind an extraordinary city is very petulant.
Short term? Here's a pop quiz for you. Name a manager that has stayed in top club for longer than 3 years.
The list is not many.
Poch, simeone, and i don't know.. tuchel ? Sari ? Allegri?
Name a manager that stays succesful for longer than 5 years in a club : 0
I wouldn’t sack him unless we miss out on top 4. Would like an attacking manager next whenever that is.
It’s going to take time whoever it is. And Jose probably gives us a good chance of getting good players and winning some trophies. That will compensate for the lack of fluidity and attacking intent in our game.
Long term though, next change, I hope we get a manager who stresses on nicer football.
It’s going to take time whoever it is. And Jose probably gives us a good chance of getting good players and winning some trophies. That will compensate for the lack of fluidity and attacking intent in our game.
Long term though, next change, I hope we get a manager who stresses on nicer football.
I voted sack, but it all depends on the rest of the season. If the team shows some fight, our attack improves, and we finish the season on a strong note I'm fine with him being given another year. If it's more of the same and we barely scrape fourth while doing nothing in the CL I'll want him gone.
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