We will have to agree to disagree here. Your examples with Real and Chelsea are completely wrong. Both times he was sacked, they were champions the previous year. Meanwhile he took us as a 6th best team in England. See a difference? Did you really expect us to win quadruple this season, after missing on TOP 4 last 3 of 4 seasons? Not sure what expectations you had but it looks like they were way too high. I am really starting to think some of you are City fans and came here just to have fun, you seriously can't be thinking like that.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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We've spent 300 million, nothing great about how we're doing given that fact. Pretty sure only 2 clubs in all of Europe have spent more than that in the past two seasons and we are nowhere near the top teams in Europe.
Conte took over a 7th placed Juve side and they were champions the next season. Simeone took over a 10th place la liga side and they were champions and CL finalists in his second full season. Mind you both managers did not have the financial backing Jose has had.
Not my fault you've managed to convince yourself that spending 300 million quid and holding on to second place while holding on to victories vs the likes of Bournemouth and West Brom, parking buses vs the likes of city and pool is something great. Sadly I'm not that easily fooled.
300m is nothing in terms of building a title winning side though, its not like everyone else is standing still.
I've said it before, though plenty disagree, he's not been backed adequately given the task at hand.
How many clubs are spending that amount of money? With our wage bill on top of that?
@RooneyLegend
One, and they're above us in the league.
One, and they're above us in the league.
My biggest issue with him is I just don't find his football that entertaining.
Sure we are in the strongest position we've been in since Fergie, but even still, we aren't challenging.
I'm not saying we'd be better or worse under a different manager right now, but we have players who are better than what they are showing. It's partly down to the player, but I think the negative style of play hinders our attackers.
With the money spent and the players we have, we should be dominating most teams, playing without fear and being aggressive in attack
Sure we are in the strongest position we've been in since Fergie, but even still, we aren't challenging.
I'm not saying we'd be better or worse under a different manager right now, but we have players who are better than what they are showing. It's partly down to the player, but I think the negative style of play hinders our attackers.
With the money spent and the players we have, we should be dominating most teams, playing without fear and being aggressive in attack
Again, your examples are weird. These amounts of money didn't exist 10 years ago. 20M then is basically 50M now. So I couldn't care less about this 300 million. He took us when we were 6th best team in England. We were behind in terms of everything. We have wasted millions on players like Depay, Schneiderlin etc and we were a complete mess, TOP 4 became our hardly achievable target. Okay, we are not playing the most exciting football ATM but seriously if you are not happy with our position points wise then you never will be. To play a great football and win you need to have players to do it. When Pep arrived, he already had a good core of talented players. They just lacked a few more and a good manager. They got it all now. Our core was... hm... Rooney and Carrick? You clearly underestimate the difficulty of this job and how shite we were.
Judging by some of the comments, do people believe that Mourinho doesn't coach any form of attacking football? If he's not teaching/coaching/implementing different forms of attacks, what do those people think we do during training? How is it then possible for us to actually attack and score goals? Surely, if the emphasis was on not attacking, we'd be in the relegation zone?
Jose took charge when we were 5th by goal difference. It was he who masterminded us to becoming the 6th best side in England by essentially giving up. We had miised CL 2 of 3 seasons actually (7th, 4th, 5th). This was seen by most as a poor performance and I don't accept us as the 6th best side that year. I did not feel Liverpool or Arsenal had a better squad than us. not coming top 4 was a fail but we did the Europa way.
One thing I would say, is that I was shocked when Jose said he only wanted 3 players last Summer. It was clear for everyone to see that 3 wasn't enough, especially when one of those signings was in a position we didn't really need either (CB). Whether this was down to the finances or the Glazers i'm unsure.
I can't help but agree.
But Jose should get more support IMO now that he's been chosen.
I would be amazed if he was told he'd be backed 100% and then he himself decided he only wanted 3 (actually 4). Given the hundreds of millions wasted prior to Jose coming in, he had a gigantic task ahead of him re-structuring and balancing the team.
Has he been asked point blank by a journo whether or not he's got the necessary financial backing to get United to the top?
In European football.
So blindly continue going down the wrong path?
He has hinted at unrest with Woodward on a couple of occasions but I don't think he would be daft enough to criticize right now and make his position more unclear. I think if he starts to agitate his way out of the club which he has done at all the others, then we may learn more as the money thing will probably be the out that he uses.
Its not 10 years ago, more like 5 or 6. Ok, I'll give you more recent examples, Poch got spurs to the same level on a shoestring budget from pretty much the same base. Heck, so did Rodgers and even he took a side struggling to that level. If you take all the clubs without financial limitations which is us, Chelsea, City, Bayern, Real, Barca and PSG we are doing a really poor job.
Still confident in Jose. Yes, we do look frustratingly pedestrian at times compared to certain teams, but he's massively improved our results while dragging around much of the deadwood from years gone by. Imagine if that other team didn't have the season they're (currently) having. We'd be singing his praises for transforming our results in just over a year.
I'm probably repeating what others have said, but he got the job three years too late. There's no way we'd still be searching for our first post-Fergie league title if circumstances had allowed him to succeed Sir Alex.
I'm probably repeating what others have said, but he got the job three years too late. There's no way we'd still be searching for our first post-Fergie league title if circumstances had allowed him to succeed Sir Alex.
True. But there are also indirect ways of getting that info out. I've yet to see a journalistic piece that takes into account the spending under LVG vs. the spending under Jose, adjusting for inflation, whilst also acknowledging the dead wood or square-pegs-in-round-holes players Jose inherited. Nor have I seen anything addressing the question of what the board's future vision is. To me it seems the board got in Jose and hoped he could rectify their atrocious handling of the club in the aftermath of SAF's retiring without having to financially rectify what had gone on.
Gotta love constant comparisons with Poch. Everyone is missing quite a significant point with him though - he has won feck all and bottled everything. Now surely you can say he is on a tight budget but who knows if he would do any better having more money?
Oh really? depends how you spent it. Bailly 30 mill, pjanic 28.8 million, Bernardo Silva 43 million, Matic 40 million, Salah 29 million, Mane 34 million, Sanchez 60 million (summer price) + Lukaku 74 million total = 338.8 million.
Please note, this is on top of the current squad United already have and are based on the prices these players went for or were scheduled to go for since Jose came to United.
Right so he'll never be adequately backed unless we're outspending every other club?
People will find a way to gloss over the style of our play using the money spent.
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Jardim at Monaco, Sarri at Napoli, look mate, there are many coaches doing great jobs around the world. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't change that.
No one wouldn't be doing better with 300 million more than what they have.
@Dobbs
No, what I'm saying is you can't throw around comments about spending 300m when the only side in front of you spent more on an already better squad.
Either the amount means something or it doesn't. If it does then we are exactly where we're meant to be.
No, what I'm saying is you can't throw around comments about spending 300m when the only side in front of you spent more on an already better squad.
Either the amount means something or it doesn't. If it does then we are exactly where we're meant to be.
That's fine but you said he hasn't been "adequately" backed. Then confirmed only one club had been backed more.
So how does he actually become adequately backed in your opinion. The only other option left is to be the top spender.
See, that's exactly what I am talking about. All of the suggestions who can replace Mou are ridiculous to say the least. Replacing Mou with Sarri who has won feck all during his 20 years of management career, or Jardim who is a Portuguese Klopp and won pretty much nothing in 20 years as well would be a disaster.
@Stacks
I don't understand your point? You've mentioned a few names there that play in the same position (Wasn't Salah 40m?) added in Silva struggling to adapt to England right away with Mane struggling for form and Sanchez doing whatever the feck he's doing.
Its ok to look back and cherrypick random transfers but only two of those play in the same side and haven't shown they can play together which shows how rare those signings are.
Are we meant to take 300m worth of chances? Is that viable? Or are we meant to buy Pogba level players whicg means 300m isn't enough to fill out a squad that finished 7th, 5th and 6th in 3 of the last 4 seasons?
Our squad was so mediocre that it's disgusting.
Its not like we spent 300m extra than Chelsea or City, hell there were times last season when our front 3 didn't cost us a penny.
I don't understand your point? You've mentioned a few names there that play in the same position (Wasn't Salah 40m?) added in Silva struggling to adapt to England right away with Mane struggling for form and Sanchez doing whatever the feck he's doing.
Its ok to look back and cherrypick random transfers but only two of those play in the same side and haven't shown they can play together which shows how rare those signings are.
Are we meant to take 300m worth of chances? Is that viable? Or are we meant to buy Pogba level players whicg means 300m isn't enough to fill out a squad that finished 7th, 5th and 6th in 3 of the last 4 seasons?
Our squad was so mediocre that it's disgusting.
Its not like we spent 300m extra than Chelsea or City, hell there were times last season when our front 3 didn't cost us a penny.
Assuming all these players were dying to come here. I remember when Sanchez went to Arsenal, he clearly said CL and London as his top priority.
One should remember that neither Man Utd is a big club everyone is dying to come to (like Real or Barca) nor Jose is a manager everyone is dying to work with.
On the 2nd point, it is not that I don't rate Jose as a top manager, but I don't think he is a sought after manager for many players.
Edit: I am not disagreeing that we could have gone for other players, but the post seems to be banking a lot on hindsight and not considering a player's desires
@Dobbs
Again that's not what I'm saying.
300m is adequate, it's just not a number that automatically means we should be right up there with City only dropping 2 points.
Either money spent is a scale or it isn't, it can't be held up as a definite means to overpower lesser clubs only to criticise Jose for not being able to keep up with a state funded super club.
I mean VVD and Sanchez in January? Boy I hope Malcom can hit the ground running...
Again that's not what I'm saying.
300m is adequate, it's just not a number that automatically means we should be right up there with City only dropping 2 points.
Either money spent is a scale or it isn't, it can't be held up as a definite means to overpower lesser clubs only to criticise Jose for not being able to keep up with a state funded super club.
I mean VVD and Sanchez in January? Boy I hope Malcom can hit the ground running...
I think this season, so far, we've seen pockets of scintilating football allied to backs-to-the-walls desperation.
And I don't see much inbetween.
Attacking chemistry has been a huge problem and some of our frontmen are resembling wild exhibitionists rather than cold, focused attackers whose job it is to pass, score and make smooth combinations around the box until a chance arises.
It's Jose's job to get a handle on this, perhaps with a couple of more creative players, he will.
But the team lacks method, style and attacking cohesion and I'd have hoped, by now, we'd have some.
That said, Jose is doing a reasonable job because despite everything else, the points total we have is not be sniffed at. Finishing second and going deep in the CL would be a decent season.
But it's going to be the style of play that snares him at the end. Having seasonal diets of Jose's grinderman tactics simply become indigestible at the end.
And I don't see much inbetween.
Attacking chemistry has been a huge problem and some of our frontmen are resembling wild exhibitionists rather than cold, focused attackers whose job it is to pass, score and make smooth combinations around the box until a chance arises.
It's Jose's job to get a handle on this, perhaps with a couple of more creative players, he will.
But the team lacks method, style and attacking cohesion and I'd have hoped, by now, we'd have some.
That said, Jose is doing a reasonable job because despite everything else, the points total we have is not be sniffed at. Finishing second and going deep in the CL would be a decent season.
But it's going to be the style of play that snares him at the end. Having seasonal diets of Jose's grinderman tactics simply become indigestible at the end.
Apologies it was the poster above you who said it wasn't "adequate."
Though I'd still disagree that £300 million is nothing. He inherited a very good goalkeeper/defence which he's pretty much carried on using. So there was a solid base.
That money spent doesn't automatically mean anything as you say but it could have been used better.
It's not something to hammer Jose for but had Mkhi been a good signing, had we addressed the right wing instead of adding another centre back, I think we'd still be firmly in the race.
You can mount a serious challenge with what we've spent.
He hasn't managed at the top level of the game, how you expect him to win big trophies? You do know the likes of Zidane and Pep had also won the square root of feck all before they got jobs at mega clubs? Surely its common sense that in a world of financial dominance that those without it would struggle to do so? It's the same attitude that has us hiring a manager with archaic ideas about the game faffing about doing god knows what here.
Btw Jardim recently won ligue 1 despite him managing a team that wasn't in the same ball park with its competitor financially, did so playing the sort of football we can only dream of seeing here under the current regime.
It's not so simple. Sanchez only wanted to go to City in the summer
It's not about being top spender. It's not even about the clubs around us. It's about Jose having a first XI that he is happy with, not over the moon with, happy with. Like a backline he trusts and can provide consistency. As well as addressing the lack of balance in the first XI. That's the priority. Then comes to squad as a whole. I don't think he held on to some squad players because he rates them highly, but more because he couldn't generate enough money from selling them to then reinvest for better players (given the amount of games we had last season).
Then why the hell would you want someone like that replace Mou? Crazy risk and the last thing we need right now is take risks...Sarri has had 20 years to manage at the top level.
There is always a revolving door of managers at Roma, Juve, Inter, Milan and Lazio. Yet none of them picked up the great magical Sarri before Napoli.
I suppose we should also think about Mazzarri because he got Napoli playing good football for a few years too.
This might not be a very popular opinion but I think Mourinho should be sacked by maximum the end of the season before the inevitable happens, he is bound to fall out with the players same way he did at RM & Chelsea.
Yes because every manager at those two clubs doesn’t fall out or end up getting sacked.
He should be let go if he tells the board that wants to go to Paris. Otherwise continuity is the most important aspect in club management and we can't afford another manager coming in and taking his time surveying the squad before rebuilding it to win trophies.
We picked a good one on the third choice we should hold onto him and see where he takes us.
He hasn't, he only started coaching in the Serie A at Empoli, which he promoted to Serie A then kept them in the league on no budged. He'd barely coaches at Serie B level before Empoli, he's a genuine no name brand with no playing history who had to earn his stripes the hard way. Doing a hell of a job at Napoli that previous title winning coaches like Benitez couldn't do hence he's the current Serie A coach of the year.
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