Jose: Mata has to adapt

amolbhatia100 said:
You seem to be going off your faith in mourinho's managerial ability completely though. What about the case on its own merits? If mourinho had been the one to sell Ozil and not madrid's president, would you still stand by it. I'm never in favor of letting go off these top players unless they start holding the team back via their football or attitude, and if I saw that in mata I'd agree. But he seems, to me, to be nothing but a great asset to the Chelsea team.
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What else should I be going off by? We have to consider that a manager with his CV didn't just stumble over the trophies he won.

Of course it's all differing opinions in the end. The same goes for the Özil deal. Ancelotti may have seen Isco as his favorite for the number 10 role. Mou on the other hand said it was madness to sell him becaue in his opinion he is the best number 10 in world football right now. The thing is there are no absolute truth's in football it's all a matter of opinion really. What's the right tactic to chose, what is the right players to put on the field it's all opinion based pretty much which makes this sport so interesting. If there would only be one correct way to play the game and only the overall best player suited to do the job he is inteded to at it's best football would be easy but it isn't.

That's why I say I have a certain trust and listen to what top managers say because I assume they know a hell of a lot more about football then I do.

But I digress and find myself defending a man that I don't really like all that much and don't really care for which is not really a thing I want to be spending my time on.
 
Mourinho is so much up hiw own arse that one day he's going to play the ultimate mindgame by trying to outsmart himself and he'll implode. Which is when Liam is born.

On topic, I feel sorry for Mata. He was one of the reasons why I'd tune into Chelsea games last year, such an elegant and classy guy (not to mention one of the rare ones over there that isn't a total and utter cnut). The guy has been their best player for two seasons, one of the best #10s in Europe, and gets shafted to a wing. Real waste of talent, I hope he gets to leave sooner rather than later. And it's not so much that I want him here, it's just that it's a total waste and it annoys me.

I think Mata must be angry and confused at the moment in any case.
 
NoLogo said:
What else should I be going off by? We have to consider that a manager with his CV didn't just stumble over the trophies he won.

Of course it's all differing opinions in the end. The same goes for the Özil deal. Ancelotti may have seen Isco as his favorite for the number 10 role. Mou on the other hand said it was madness to sell him becaue in his opinion he is the best number 10 in world football right now. The thing is there are no absolute truth's in football it's all a matter of opinion really. What's the right tactic to chose, what is the right players to put on the field it's all opinion based pretty much which makes this sport so interesting. If there would only be one correct way to play the game and only the overall best player suited to do the job he is inteded to at it's best football would be easy but it isn't.

That's why I say I have a certain trust and listen to what top managers say because I assume they know a hell of a lot more about football then I do.

But I digress and find myself defending a man that I don't really like all that much and don't really care for which is not really a thing I want to be spending my time on.
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Your presumption is that Jose acts entirely rationally in this case for he is a very successful manager and such managers do not let feelings interfere with their decision making. I have my doubts about that. Mou's ego is huge and it was quite hurt by the way he was treated in Madrid. His last year there was a painful experience for him and, given his self-centered personality, it would be natural to expect a bit of resentment from him toward Spaniards. People could act quite irrationally, especially when their ego is being hurt.

It's not too much to suppose that Mourinho wants to build a great Chelsea side without any key Spanish players in it. He seems to hate Spaniards. This may sound a bit childish but it is probably the truth. Willian's signing was a step in that direction.
 
This has so many similarities to the way he used to go on at Joe Cole. It's weird. Almost like he has to pick a fight with a high profile player over something like this.
 
:lol:

If I was Mata, I'd look back at two years being the best player at the club coming in from an alien league, watch Mourinho prattle on about adapting to his visionary and gloriously long term strategy, and look for the first ticket out of that joke of a club.
 
Carl said:
This has so many similarities to the way he used to go on at Joe Cole. It's weird. Almost like he has to pick a fight with a high profile player over something like this.
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He spoke about Joe Cole before the season started...
Mourinho recalls with bluntness how, in his first spell at Chelsea, he "made life difficult" for Cole. That was an understatement when you consider the criticism of Cole after a winning goal against Liverpool in 2004. "A No 10 [Cole] who was so talented that he makes two or three fantastic actions and people were amazed," Mourinho says dismissively. "We transformed that player into the kind of inside-winger, right and left, strong defensively. He was fantastic. I was so pleased with what we did with him."
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I thought that Hazard would get the "Joe Cole experience" but it seems Mata is the man Jose has chosen.
 
Joe did play good football at Chelsea, he was a real handful for a few years. I remember that goal he scored when he left Rio for dead.....

I'm not sure what Mourinho's playing at. I guess he just prefers Oscar he is welcome to his opinion. He always has space in his teams to accommodate a special player or two Lampard, Snejider and then Ronaldo. I guess he has chosen Oscar now.

 
Carl said:
This has so many similarities to the way he used to go on at Joe Cole. It's weird. Almost like he has to pick a fight with a high profile player over something like this.
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He probably looks at it as some sort power trip, sending out a message that no one is untouchable and he's the boss.

The press picked up on this surprisingly quick. I won't be surprised if he was responsible for planting those stories.
 
Why doesn't he play Oscar in centre-mid, I reckon the boy would be a revelation there as he comes so deep to collect the ball anyway, has bags of stamina and isn't afraid to get stuck in either and then play Mata in the 10 role.
 
This makes me very happy (though I feel sorry for Mata and hope he gets a move in January so he makes a good case for being included in Spain's WC squad).
 
Raees said:
Why doesn't he play Oscar in centre-mid, I reckon the boy would be a revelation there as he comes so deep to collect the ball anyway, has bags of stamina and isn't afraid to get stuck in either and then play Mata in the 10 role.
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This was basically what I was going to say, he has played a deeper role before and done very well. I completely understand Jose's basic point, if you offered me the chance to sign Mata, Hazard or Oscar, I'd pick Oscar, I really think he's going to become a seriously good footballer, but he can fit all three in without playing Oscar or Mata wide, especially against the so called "lesser teams".

Also, the day after Jose was appointed, Marca ran a story saying he didn't want Mata, and the rumours began to spread from there, so this isn't a manager seeing everyone in training and taking his time to do a detailed analysis on each players' merits, this is a manager who went in with a closed mind. Mata didn't play well against Everton? Maybe that's due to how he's being treated Jose.
 
Why can't he play both Oscar and Mata? Mata can drift in from the right or left and Oscar can start centrally.

I really rate Oscar though. fecking brilliant player and so intelligent in his play
 
The annoying thing is that he wouldn't really be right for United. If he does end up looking for a move I'm not sure we'll be the ones who can offer him the position he wants. Good as Mata is, Rooney is currently confirming once again that he's the better player. And we already have Kagawa being kept out of the #10 position. There's hardly space for a third.
 
The Chelsea player that would suit us the most would be Hazard
 
mickeza said:
This was basically what I was going to say, he has played a deeper role before and done very well. I completely understand Jose's basic point, if you offered me the chance to sign Mata, Hazard or Oscar, I'd pick Oscar, I really think he's going to become a seriously good footballer, but he can fit all three in without playing Oscar or Mata wide, especially against the so called "lesser teams".

Also, the day after Jose was appointed, Marca ran a story saying he didn't want Mata, and the rumours began to spread from there, so this isn't a manager seeing everyone in training and taking his time to do a detailed analysis on each players' merits, this is a manager who went in with a closed mind. Mata didn't play well against Everton? Maybe that's due to how he's being treated Jose.
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Yep, I posted it here and got laughed at. I wasn't surprised at all when I read it either.
 
Comes into Chelsea and treats their player of the last 2 years like this. Incredible!

There was obviously something in those Mata swap for Rooney rumours after all.

I'm still though, quite surprised so many people were up for swapping with Mata. Check Rooney's form out now!
 
He probably suspects Mata of sending texts to Rafa or some such mad rubbish.
 
akash02 said:
Why can't he play both Oscar and Mata? Mata can drift in from the right or left and Oscar can start centrally.

I really rate Oscar though. fecking brilliant player and so intelligent in his play
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They can and that's what Mourinho is saying, Mata will need to adapt to play out wide and put in a defensive shift.Its not ideal though and a fecking waste of his talent.


Brightonian said:
The annoying thing is that he wouldn't really be right for United. If he does end up looking for a move I'm not sure we'll be the ones who can offer him the position he wants. Good as Mata is, Rooney is currently confirming once again that he's the better player. And we already have Kagawa being kept out of the #10 position. There's hardly space for a third.
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Agreed. Superb player but if not getting to play as No 10 is the problem, it won't be solved here at United.
 
I wonder if José believes that Spanish players won't buy-in to the 'siege mentality' mindset he appears to encourage?
 
Varun_Utd said:
They can and that's what Mourinho is saying, Mata will need to adapt to play out wide and put in a defensive shift.Its not ideal though and a fecking waste of his talent.

.
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I am fairly sure Mata almost always drifted in from the left when he was playing for Valencia. He's played a lot more central at Chelsea than he ever did there. Shouldn't require much adapting
 
It strikes me that what Mourinho should have done this summer, rather than adding loads of AMs to a team that already had a surfeit of them, is bought in a really top class, defensively rock-solid CM to replace Lampard. Someone in the Schweinsteiger/Marchisio mould.

A defensively sound midfield of Ramires and someone like that would have reduced the need for the 'wingers' to put in a defensive shift, allowing him to play Oscar-Mata-Hazard as an unbridled fluid attacking unit. If there's less need for the wider two to defend, then it makes less difference who plays wide and who central. Oscar and Mata could both have drifted about as they pleased, playing their game the way they do best.
 
When Mourinho says 'wide' he means in a more 451 formation rather than last season's 4231.
 
Brightonian said:
It strikes me that what Mourinho should have done this summer, rather than adding loads of AMs to a team that already had a surfeit of them, is bought in a really top class, defensively rock-solid CM to replace Lampard. Someone in the Schweinsteiger/Marchisio mould.

A defensively sound midfield of Ramires and someone like that would have reduced the need for the 'wingers' to put in a defensive shift, allowing him to play Oscar-Mata-Hazard as an unbridled fluid attacking unit. If there's less need for the wider two to defend, then it makes less difference who plays wide and who central. Oscar and Mata could both have drifted about as they pleased, playing their game the way they do best.
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I agree wholeheartedly, I thought that is exactly the kind of player they would have made a move for over the summer.
 
Mourinho is a clown. Mata scored 20 and assisted around 30 last season, crazy stats. He should be building the team around him, why try to change him when what he was doing was working brilliantly?
 
akash02 said:
I am fairly sure Mata almost always drifted in from the left when he was playing for Valencia. He's played a lot more central at Chelsea than he ever did there. Shouldn't require much adapting
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It isnt just about the position, also whats expected of him there. The defensive responsibility will be much more and Mata isnt used to it.
 
Jose sending Mata on 'with specific tasks to do' just shows what a functional manager he is. you would have thought with a player like Mata the managers instructions would be 'go and do your stuff and take them to the cleaners'. He seems to want to make him a cog in his machine when Mata's play is all about intuition and freedom.

Therefore I conclude ...... Mourinho's a knob.
 
The rumour even before the season started was that Mourinho thinks that Mata slows down the play and he wants a quicker, counter attacking side.

So lets just say that that's whats happening here, Mourinho has told mata to quicken up his release of the ball, and he doesn't think mata is doing that, or maybe even worse, he's not even trying to. Added to that, Oscar is carrying out said 'instructions' to the letter, as a manager, would you not go with the player who's trying to do what you say rather than the more talented one? Genuine question.

If you have an idea of what you want your team to do, and your players aren't doing it, then bench them. Surely that's what most of the top coaches in the world would do, no? They wouldnt go about it in such a knobish way or as quickly imo but still.

Having said that, why is he speaking to the media about it, surely do it in house? Mata will not only have the support of the fans but also of his team mates i'd have thought, so he's playing a dangerous game imo. And it looks like as someone else said that this could easily destabilise the club (although when have Chelsea not being in that position recently?). Mourinho is a very mechanical manager, he's a control freak, to him Mata is just another cog, wonderful player but essentially he's replaceable.
 
It genuinely just seems like he's tried to do the most ridiculous thing possible just to establish the fact that he's in control. Maybe it'll all come good, I don't know.
 
KingEric7 said:
It genuinely just seems like he's tried to do the most ridiculous thing possible just to establish the fact that he's in control. Maybe it'll all come good, I don't know.
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Or it's a bit more simplistic than that. He's seen Ozil not carry out defensive instructions at Real Madrid (see Bayern Munich games, for example) and he's come to the conclusion that having Oscar, who represents the modern-day #10, is better than having Mata.
 
shaggy said:
Mata > Barcelona and Fabregas > United next summer then.
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'Fraid not. Martino has finally done the right thing and started playing Fabregas in midfield. He's probably been Barca's best player so far this season. Unless something dramatic happens, he'll have no inclination to move next summer.
 
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