2nd half they sit back and allowed us to attack at will. Was it one or two shot on target on 2nd half? That's when we were 2 goals behind.
José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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I’d rather have a bad season with Zidane now than one with Mourinho.
Got a bad feeling we will lose against Tottenham.
But do we know this as fact? Jose developed a reputation for defensive anti-football long before he came to United. There's a reason "parking the bus" is most associated with him. His core philosophy rejects the very idea of possession because "whoever has the ball has fear." How is it now our players' fault that he isn't playing nice attacking football?
The problems we have in possession aren't really about how many bodies are forward. We can play ultra defensively and still be able to circulate the ball without breaking down at every 3rd or 4th pass
I still can’t get over the one simple horrible fact that is we have zero obvious tactics outside of “lump it to Fellaini”. We are Manchester United ffs. It’s a sign that we do jack shit on the training ground. It’s the only explanation why our basics are so bad.
Lets say all three goals against us came from defensive mistakes and leave them to the side for a bit. My major gripe with Mourinho and why I want him out now is that there seems to be no coaching done for our players in attack. Its like he expects players to figure things out on their on in attack which is insane given the amount of time he spends trying to organize the team defensively.
Just look at how far away our players are from each other, there are no easy passing possibilities, they rely on individual player abilities to squeeze through the oppos press to find the open man or they rely on luck. Fred and Pogba were playing so close to each other and Andreas was too far away to dictate play upfront. Wheres the linkup play? Where are the triangles ? Where are the intricate passes that slice through defenses? We know for a fact that the players have enough talent to break through most defenses but Mourinho just doesnt coach our players on how they should be organized going forward.
This is his third season with the club, theres no excuse for that. Sarri and even Emrey have already created an offensive structure that helps their teams attack and create chances. Mourinho has done none of this in the past two seasons, instead he relies on players to figure out for themselves. Its not about formations or what to do to get the best out of X player, its about coaching but Mourinho just coaches players in defense as if there is no need to do so for attack.
Just look at how far away our players are from each other, there are no easy passing possibilities, they rely on individual player abilities to squeeze through the oppos press to find the open man or they rely on luck. Fred and Pogba were playing so close to each other and Andreas was too far away to dictate play upfront. Wheres the linkup play? Where are the triangles ? Where are the intricate passes that slice through defenses? We know for a fact that the players have enough talent to break through most defenses but Mourinho just doesnt coach our players on how they should be organized going forward.
This is his third season with the club, theres no excuse for that. Sarri and even Emrey have already created an offensive structure that helps their teams attack and create chances. Mourinho has done none of this in the past two seasons, instead he relies on players to figure out for themselves. Its not about formations or what to do to get the best out of X player, its about coaching but Mourinho just coaches players in defense as if there is no need to do so for attack.
Yeah its absolutely pathetic to watch us at times. There is no apparent system or style of play in possession. It honestly looks as structured as a Sunday league team. The off the ball movement is uncoordinated at best and nearly non-existent at worst. We pretty much exclusively rely on moments of individual brilliance to create chances from open play. Yesterday the only real chance we created was the Martial dribble early on. The Lukaku chance was handed to us by a mistake from Dunk.
How can you play a whole half of football down 2 goals and basically create nothing? I'd say from a talent perspective we have no worse than the 3rd best squad in the league, but you look at our style of play and their are few teams who look as disjointed as us. Watching Brighton against us and Crystal Palace play against Liverpool highlighted how much we are lacking. Mid table sides with decent but unspectacular players with managers getting them to play with a clear purpose. I honestly wonder what it is we do in training? Do we just not work on building from the back and a basic attacking structure or is Mourinho just unable to implement any form of a system successfully? Either way, what has been going on for the last two years is not good enough. If Chelsea and Arsenal can already have a clear style of play after less than a month under new managers, then we have no excuse.
I concur.
I don't understand why are we so stubborn tactically? Why our only solution against pressing teams is to hoof the ball to Fellaini? We have quick players like Rashford, Martial, Lingard (+Sanchez) and players quite good on the ball like Pogba, Mata, Andreas and Fred (also Sanchez). It's baffling that we can't try a diamond or some passing out of pressure plays. Is Mourinho too afraid to lose the ball in the middle?
I thought that maybe with the addition of Carrick and McKenna, we would add some new demension to our game, but it's same old, same old. Maybe too bold but I'd prefer to lose 4:2 or 5:2 and try a diamond or at least something new than to watch some depressing and uninspiring football where players don't know exactly what's happening.
I think its an extension of Mourinho's footballing philosophy to be honest. That is teams that have the ball are more likely to make a mistake. Mistakes lead to goals. Top level football is generally all about errors and how teams take advantage of those errors. Goals are often made in transition. In general Mourinho's modern sides do not want the ball.
Now with Mourinho's tactics being to allow the opposition to have the ball and be deep and disciplined obviously works but rely's on being able to break (transition) quickly. You also have to do it over the full length of the pitch. That's where the long ball tactics, Felaini and Lukaku come in. Playing long also allows you to play over the opposition midfield and perhaps take advantage of a defensive line that is perhaps little too deep, or out of shape etc.
Where this becomes a struggle is where teams let United have the ball. Playing deep now becomes an issue, as does playing long. Against Brighton I think United were basically stuck between two different game plans. One that required having all the ball and the other to play deep and absorb pressure.
I don't understand the 'there are no suitable replacements for Jose' crew. We should stuck with Jose because you think we can't find someone better? Who the feck told you? Some clubs have moved on from treble winning and multiple CL managers yet people go on about how difficult it would be for us to find a manager that can do better than the rubbish football we're currently witnessing. Hilarious
I don't care if we finish 10th, I just want to be entertained. Jose can leave if he can't deliver that. Fecking hell, clubs like Crystal Palace look more cohesive than we do.
There's only 4 games a season where parking the bus and lumping it to Fellaini is absolutely necessary. Those games are City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs away.
The rest of the time, we should be attacking attacking attacking. The more the ball is in the opponents half, the less our defenders have to do, the better.
Why there is a need to park the bus against the likes of Huddersfield and Brighton, so to expose the frailties of Bailly, Smalling and Co, I will never, ever understand.
The rest of the time, we should be attacking attacking attacking. The more the ball is in the opponents half, the less our defenders have to do, the better.
Why there is a need to park the bus against the likes of Huddersfield and Brighton, so to expose the frailties of Bailly, Smalling and Co, I will never, ever understand.
I've been a critique of Jose's appointment from day 1.
he was hired for instant success without a coherent plan from the powers that be about long term planning for the club.
Jose has a 2-3 season history at every club where he brings success, his rivals hate him cos he rallies them up then he doesn't get his way, the board tire of him and/or the players bore of his theatrics and he loses the dressing room.
We are in his 3rd season, the board didn't go all out backing him in the transfer window. Major concern. He has already lost a big chunk of the dressing room before we even start the 3rd season.
So when he goes, and it will be at some point throughout his 3rd season, he wont be in charge for a 4th - What are we left with?
I'd say a disjointed team who have no clear playing identity and are completely bereft of any confidence in they're playing ability. Signing wise we haven't exactly built for the future under Jose, and he hasn't progressed any of our youngsters as you'd expect (made a lot of them worse you'd argue).
I hope whoever comes in just galvinates the players we have and lifts the spirits. All our players look miserable and Jose hasn't cracked a smile since we hired him.
Its Grim
he was hired for instant success without a coherent plan from the powers that be about long term planning for the club.
Jose has a 2-3 season history at every club where he brings success, his rivals hate him cos he rallies them up then he doesn't get his way, the board tire of him and/or the players bore of his theatrics and he loses the dressing room.
We are in his 3rd season, the board didn't go all out backing him in the transfer window. Major concern. He has already lost a big chunk of the dressing room before we even start the 3rd season.
So when he goes, and it will be at some point throughout his 3rd season, he wont be in charge for a 4th - What are we left with?
I'd say a disjointed team who have no clear playing identity and are completely bereft of any confidence in they're playing ability. Signing wise we haven't exactly built for the future under Jose, and he hasn't progressed any of our youngsters as you'd expect (made a lot of them worse you'd argue).
I hope whoever comes in just galvinates the players we have and lifts the spirits. All our players look miserable and Jose hasn't cracked a smile since we hired him.
Its Grim
Feels fairly obvious there is a huge effort to destabilise the club at the moment. Most articles knocking about are pure speculation and critics opinion stated as fact.
"Huge effort to destabilize the club"? By who? That's a RAWKish statement if I've ever seen one.
The English press piles on any top 6 manager that isn't getting results. It's not exclusive to United.
Of course. Mourinho started the tone of this season all wrong. He didn't give the media vultures a whiff of blood, he brought them to the slaughterhouse for a feast.
That’s all reasonable enough but I do not want us to rush into an appointment simply because “x” is available at the moment. We really need to put some serious thought into the next appointment in the context of where we want the club to be in 5 years time. If that means sticking with the Miserable One a bit longer or even giving it to Carrick as caretaker, then I would prefer that to just grabbing the next big name on the merry go round (currently Zidane). We have been far too reactive with managerial planning, starting with the end of Fergie’s reign. I fear however that Woodward might find the lure of an iconic, global “brand” like ZZ irresistible.
Ultimately though, the fact is we needed at least one centre half. Mourinho can moan all he wants (he's stopped now in fairness to him), the board can keep quiet for as long as they want, unfortunately that doesn't get us a centre half. To me, he made a last ditch, desperate attempt to get the board to listen. Some will say he brought in Bailly and Victor, he did, but I think he trusted Smalling and Jones to be the dominate one in that partership who were already that the club. He can't pick them though because one can't pass and the other can't read the game, so what do you do? All the stuff about the pre season tour as a whole, I don't really see the point.
We have to win that Tottenham game IMO, I'm 100% sure that some will want us to lose that game but that's football. They need to lock themselves away for a bit and ignore every bit of noise from outside the club because there's plenty of it. Everywhere I look Ian Wright has a new article out, the blokes working overtime. He's a machine.
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Youre not a United supporter, that much is clear from your comments. Why would a United supporter even care what the scousers are at? We finished ahead of them last season yet theyre doing something right and we're doing something wrong... Stick to cricket.
I suggest you stick to crayons and licking chocolate fingers if "we finished ahead of the scousers/don't acknowledge their existence/ don't care what they are doing" is your best retort.
The fact that Liverpool are improving should be a concern for every United supporter.
Regarding cricket, is that supposed to be an insult? what makes you think it is the instant alternative to football for me? Is it because it is popular/the only sport in my country? Or is it because my country do well in that sport? Or is it because you watch football to the exclusion of other sports? Well, if it is the first, I will have you know that Cricket, Hockey and Football are quite popular here, although the degree of popularity varies of course. If it is the second, there is no written rule that I should watch Cricket or know its rules better just because my country does well in it -- I hardly know silly point from gully anyway and rarely watch it. If it is the third, I can assure you that unlike you, football is not the be all and end all for me -- I have diverse interests ranging from arts to music to philosophy to astronomy which don't interfere with my football pursuits.
Stick to 12 yr old Football twitter.
Problem with making reference to short-termism at the club, is that although not ideal, I agree, UTD have to be competitive right from the get-go in order to satisfy the commercial requirements of a self-financing business. City & PSG have sugar daddies, and so are afforded some respite from the financial realities of being profitable, we are not. We have to maintain our profile in order to continue to function at an elite level and this means securing a manager who will be able to hit-the-ground-running, secure silverware and ensure we have a presence in the CL. If not, we're going to struggle to bring sufficient funds in, in order to continue as a top four team.
City, for example, were able to jettison Cook & Marwood, and bring into their ranks top execs from Barca, while setting a long term, and highly laudable strategy, to land Guardiola, by using Pellegrini more as an interim than a permanent appointment. All this was handled really competently, and as it transpired City were able to maintain top 4 football, keep revenues up, and rid their dressing room of the bad smell left by Mancini & co. I just don't think UTD ( Woodward, Glazers & board ) would countenance such a strategy here because of the issues that might result from a rapid downturn if things went tits up. City have more room to maneuver than we do, by virtue of how they're owned, and we have to make decisions, where the office of the manager is concerned, that best ensure continued solvency. Whether a less risk-averse policy would better serve the club in the long run is something, as a consequence, I think we're very unlikely to find out. I hope at some point we do grasp-the-nettle, and plan for a tenure beyond the immediate, but the way we are set up always seems to mitigate against this happening.
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He's probably not writing any of it, just putting his name to it, but your point stands.
I think he'll be gone before xmas. There's just too much noise, its all looking ominous for him.
Part of me doesnt want him to go as we'll have to go through another rebuild, another clearout, start from scratch if you will. The other part of me thinks we can finally get in a manager and start playing some decent, attacking football. I don't know, i'm feeling rather sombre about the situation we're in, not helped by the fact that Liverpool look like serious contenders for the title (yes I know its only been 2 games!)
Part of me doesnt want him to go as we'll have to go through another rebuild, another clearout, start from scratch if you will. The other part of me thinks we can finally get in a manager and start playing some decent, attacking football. I don't know, i'm feeling rather sombre about the situation we're in, not helped by the fact that Liverpool look like serious contenders for the title (yes I know its only been 2 games!)
Give it to Carrick til the end of the season...
Is there really a need to turn on our own supporters and doubt their support for the club just because they're saying something you don't agree with? Calling someone a Liverpool supporter and telling him to feck off to RAWK. Rather ironically, that's the sort of stuff you see on RAWK all the time. If you don't have any better arguments to offer, why bother replying at all? Just ignore him if you don't like it.
I dont understand what the players are doing in training?
Liverpool are masters of pressing the opposition into making mistakes then punishing with clinical finishing.
City pass pass pass, drawing out defenders and waiting for an opening or some magic to unlock the defence, then punish with good finishing.
We recycle possession for 1-2mins, then a pogba OTT pass usually mishit ( yes he’s human( or passing it to Young, Shaw, Valenica to whip in a gastly cross, hoping someone does something in the box. After that fails to break any team down, 65mins in, Fellaini comes on and, in his defence wins ball after ball after ball and then we repeat plan A. This is not the United way and I cant understand why Jose isn’t changing tac, as it’s clearly not working! Try something different FFS! Try pogba as no.10 and leave Matic/Herrera/Fred behind, put sanchez as a no.10, have 4–4-2 with Martial and Lukaku, push Shaw as LW and see how he does? Just please try something different to the shit we’ve had to put up with for the last 6 seasons! Matic, Pogba, Herrera can all keep possession and pass a ball, theres your midfield, build from that going forward.keep possession, try moving left to right, that fails, right to left, keep pressing until the opponent tire or make a mistake! I know it’s easier said than done but FFS 30mins to go, hoof ball to Fellaini with 7 united players up the field will never work!
Liverpool are masters of pressing the opposition into making mistakes then punishing with clinical finishing.
City pass pass pass, drawing out defenders and waiting for an opening or some magic to unlock the defence, then punish with good finishing.
We recycle possession for 1-2mins, then a pogba OTT pass usually mishit ( yes he’s human( or passing it to Young, Shaw, Valenica to whip in a gastly cross, hoping someone does something in the box. After that fails to break any team down, 65mins in, Fellaini comes on and, in his defence wins ball after ball after ball and then we repeat plan A. This is not the United way and I cant understand why Jose isn’t changing tac, as it’s clearly not working! Try something different FFS! Try pogba as no.10 and leave Matic/Herrera/Fred behind, put sanchez as a no.10, have 4–4-2 with Martial and Lukaku, push Shaw as LW and see how he does? Just please try something different to the shit we’ve had to put up with for the last 6 seasons! Matic, Pogba, Herrera can all keep possession and pass a ball, theres your midfield, build from that going forward.keep possession, try moving left to right, that fails, right to left, keep pressing until the opponent tire or make a mistake! I know it’s easier said than done but FFS 30mins to go, hoof ball to Fellaini with 7 united players up the field will never work!
I think we'll beat spurs. We almost always beat them at OT.
Seriously, who is this RW that Jose wanted to sign? Willian? I don't think he was interested in joining us, since Chelsea got a new manager.
I think people expecting that sacking him will solve everything are in for a shock. I am very convinced that our problems are much deeper than the manager. We have 4th best squad behind City, Liverpool and Chelsea. I don't understand how anyone can expect us to challenge City for the title, they are miles ahead of us and after this transfer window they are even further ahead. We have a good enough team to win ~80pts, no more.
Agreed.
I think people have convinced themselves that just getting rid of Jose will lead to a massive up tick in form, because they don't want to be confronted with the truth about where we are.
I actually think Mourinho is the best chance we have of getting competitive again.
Totally agree. I do think it's at the point now where Jose will probably have to go now. The players are not responding to him.
This is the thing, we're clearly lining Carrick and McKenna up to be part of the first team set up for the long term, Jose is sharing and giving them the experience of the different situations and pressures that come with it. So sacking Jose now would cause too many problems, there's no saying the next manager would want them in their set up neither.
It was one game. It's impossible to conclude after a season of finishing second and then winning against Leicester but losing away at Brighton (as we did last season and still came 2nd)....that he has lost the dressing room. What you can conclude is that throughout all of that the football has not been to anyone's liking on here and the vast majority was a performance like that away from wanting him gone. In fairness I'm a Jose fan but I have to conclude he is not a good match for this club. Wouldnt be surprised if he wins another CL at his next club mind!
It won't. Even Zidane, Pochettino or Jardim won't be able to get a tune out of Valencia or Young. Shaw is mediocre, goal and assist not withstanding. I have doubts as to whether he is suited for a Top 4 club. Lingard and Rashford are bang average and I don't think they will ever be anything more than squad players. Martial too is highly overrated.
However, we do have Sanchez, Lukaku, Fred, Pogba and Matic. That's a decent spine right there. Add Pereira who appears creative as well. If we hired a manager with a specific vision like Klopp's high intensity or Pep's possession based football, we can get a lot more out of these 4-6 players than what Jose is getting. While our FBs are still a problem and CBs are still inconsistent, an attacking manager would probably get us scoring more goals. Case in point -- against Brighton, if it had been an attacking manager and we were 2-0 down due to our poor defense, we could still hope to create a number of chances via Pogba, feed Lukaku and Martial, and score the 4 goals we needed to win the game. As it is, it ended 3-2 -- imagine if we created more chances?
Our problems run deeper than the manager, but the manager is a part of the problem and exacerbates it. We have no system or identity.
Don't agree with that. Our squad is better than Chelsea's. On a par with Liverpool. And slightly off City because of their strength in depth. Sacking him won't change things overnight because we still have some deadwood but with the right appointment we can certainly take the game to teams like Brighton and Leicester.
I think we should let him see out the rest of the season and judge him again at the end. If the team improves we keep him on, if they're not up to scratch then let him go.
What we need right now is a DoF too be in place. Someone who's job is to see where we are, decide where we want to be and make plans for us to get there; in all the footballing aspects of the club. He should have a plan and a transfer list for next summer - whoever is the manager.
What we need right now is a DoF too be in place. Someone who's job is to see where we are, decide where we want to be and make plans for us to get there; in all the footballing aspects of the club. He should have a plan and a transfer list for next summer - whoever is the manager.
No, i don't expect Mourinho to win the title with this squad, and neither do i expect a new manager to do. But let's move on and get a modern coach in, who actually likes to dominate the game, with high pressing and all that follows.
We aren't even backing Mourinho, so no need to keep him and this shite football we are playing under him.
I absolutely cannot see us playing a possession based football with players like Lukaku, Sanchez and the back 4 we have. It's just not gonna work unless we play in our own half like we did with LVG.
City is miles ahead, not slightly. Chelsea and Liverpool have much more balanced squads, I mean seriously how can we call ourselves as one of the biggest clubs in the world not having a single RW for 5 years now? It's a joke.
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