Jordan Henderson | New Athletic Interview: I strongly believe that me playing in Saudi Arabia is a positive thing

IRELANDUNITED said:
I think there’s a difference between being a supporter or the LGBT community and being respectful of it. It’s possible to have different beliefs while still being respectful of other people’s beliefs. However, Henderson was very public about his support of the LGBT community, he was very vocal about wanting to set an example that he’s not only respectful but an ally of the LGBT community. His actions this summer have proven that is not the case though. You cannot claim to be a supporter of the LGBT Community if you are going to work in a country that makes being gay illegal. If he wasn’t so vocal about his support previous he mightn’t be getting the stick he is getting. People don’t like liars and hypocrites and Henderson has made himself look like one.
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Whilst I agree Henderson is being disingenuous, mainly because he wouldn't be playing in Suadi if the money was not out of this world. I do not believe this statement to be true.
You can absolutely be a supporter of the community and work in such a country.

In fact I actually think personally this type of thinking is backwards, allys and supporters need to go to these places in order to effect and influence change. Change does not come from isolation and separation.

I will reiterate though, I do not believe this is what Henderson is doing.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I just don't think it's fair to brand someone in that way here.

There's a reality here that's being forgotten - the LGBTQ+ community and their struggles are not top of mind for the majority of these athletes going to Saudi Arabia let alone the general population.

I also wouldn't call athletes support of the LGBTQ virtue signaling. For the vast majority they're being asked to affirm a social progressivism when I'm sure they would much rather be talking about sport. It's the politically correct thing to do when it just doesn't impact them. And to be frank there's probably a lot of ignorance around it. I would bet most don't know that homosexuality is punishable by execution much the same way I would bet most of those in outrage don't know the other capitol offenses that Saudi Arabia executes more people for, including not being the right "type" of Muslim. I doubt these footballers are anti- freedoms of religion or pro adultery.

It also strikes me that there's actually more outrage here with players moving to Saudi league than when Ghana refused to wear the rainbow PSG trainer or kit.

Edit:
I'm just going to add that this is pretty much par for the course with the vocal minority LGBTQ community that goes to all ends to attack and degrade those of it's own community that "step out of line" or supporters of their movement that don't do exactly as their organizers want. They find scapegoats that are easy to battle instead of using that same energy and animosity to enact significantly meaningful change. It's harder for them to have a discussion with the likes of say I Ghana and get him to come off his outspoken homophobia than it is to piss all over a guy that's gone out of his way to use his platform for them.
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Excellent post.
 
Think generally Henderson has come actoss well in interviews on camera.....but please what a load of twaddle that statement is. Moved to get regular football, no doubt he could have moved to several decent premiership clubs at a much higher level obviously than where he has gone. Dont make out you have moved for football and see it as a positive thing, you have moved for a bgi pay day at the end of your career. Despite all his support for LGBT etc I think he is entitled to do that, but dont dress it up with lies, utter nonsense
 
So everyone who was saying that Henderson made the move to support his family.

What's the reason he's over there now that he's come out and said it isn't about the money?

(We all know it's about the money but just curious to see whether anyone still thinks this is a good look. I think he would have been better off not saying anything at all)
 
I don't get why "respecting" a religion is of more value than respecting who a person is. He says you have to respect both but to me that isn't possible when one interpretation of that religion criminalises people for being who they are.

The broader issue here is society expecting athletes and celebrities to be spokespersons on human rights issues they may actually not care about at all. I get if some scouser sees Henderson supporting LGBT right he may learn some tolerance, but at the same time it leads to situations like this.

I don't know where the middle ground is. I'm also not a fan of the commercialisation of social issues, where a lot of these celebrities and corporations don't really give a shit, they're just using causes to make money but I don't know. Perhaps, disingenuous support for as long as it lasts is better than no support.
 
Rob said:
Some fall from grace, going from Liverpool legend status to a complete sell out who pissed all over a cause which he previously championed and now tearfully explaining that moving to Saudi Arabia isn't about money.

Don't know how he thinks anyone will buy it.
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Aye. For a player who was the media darling of broadsheets and tabloids alike, which would have platformed him as an authority on the game for the decades to come after retirement, he's severed his reputation. Totally fecked it.

The way that he, or Neville for example, try to justify their actions gives the impression they live in an echo chamber, completely out-of-touch with anyone who can hold them to account.
 
SilentWitness said:
I and my wife who would call herself a muslim disagree with having to follow Islam in a certain way to be a muslim but that discussion is perhaps for another thread. There are loads of muslims that do not follow Islam to 100% of its interpretation but then there are also disagreements about this interpretation. I don't really like saying you're less of a muslim/christian etc. than the next person because of certain 'grey areas'. I'm pretty sure the Qu'ran doesn't even refer to homosexuality.

I disagree wholeheartedly with the notions that if you support homosexuality then you're not a muslim or if you're a muslim then you can't support homosexuality.
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We have a muslim purist in here who during the 2022 wc wouldnt answer the question" do you think homosexuality is immoral and should be illegal? " its such a basic question that only has one ethical answer. Instead he kept dodging the question and kept saying "what i think doesnt matter only what the quran says matters." But of course thats the difference between him and you. He's a purist(or tries to come across as one) and you're not and thus more flexible.
 
Gehrman said:
We have a muslim purist in here who during the 2022 wc wouldnt answer the question" do you think homosexuality is immoral and should be illegal? " its such a basic question that only has one ethical answer. Instead he kept dodging the question and kept saying "what i think doesnt matter only what the quran says matters." But of course thats the difference between him and you. He's a purist(or tries to come across as one) and you're not and thus more flexible.
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...and in turn I would be surprised if they followed the Quran and Islam completely 100%. I think that religion and people and cultures evolve with time and the world around them, especially depending on where you live or the circles you surround yourself in. Obviously others don't in terms of religion and believe that there is only one way or the right way to follow as yourself and @Rooney in Paris and @Mogget alluded to!
 
Such a weird interview. Is it really that hard to just say that you've moved there for the money? If I remember correctly Oscar said something along those lines when he went to China.

The people who would judge you for going to play there are going to see through such a flimsy explanation and the people who don't or would probably do the same can see that you went there for the money. So who is an interview like this supposed to appeal to?
 
Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?

Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
 
MrWilliams said:
Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?

Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
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Then they can stop trying to come off as SJW.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I just don't think it's fair to brand someone in that way here.

There's a reality here that's being forgotten - the LGBTQ+ community and their struggles are not top of mind for the majority of these athletes going to Saudi Arabia let alone the general population.

I also wouldn't call athletes support of the LGBTQ virtue signaling. For the vast majority they're being asked to affirm a social progressivism when I'm sure they would much rather be talking about sport. It's the politically correct thing to do when it just doesn't impact them. And to be frank there's probably a lot of ignorance around it. I would bet most don't know that homosexuality is punishable by execution much the same way I would bet most of those in outrage don't know the other capitol offenses that Saudi Arabia executes more people for, including not being the right "type" of Muslim. I doubt these footballers are anti- freedoms of religion or pro adultery.

It also strikes me that there's actually more outrage here with players moving to Saudi league than when Ghana refused to wear the rainbow PSG trainer or kit.

Edit:
I'm just going to add that this is pretty much par for the course with the vocal minority LGBTQ community that goes to all ends to attack and degrade those of it's own community that "step out of line" or supporters of their movement that don't do exactly as their organizers want. They find scapegoats that are easy to battle instead of using that same energy and animosity to enact significantly meaningful change. It's harder for them to have a discussion with the likes of say I Ghana and get him to come off his outspoken homophobia than it is to piss all over a guy that's gone out of his way to use his platform for them.
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There is no scapegoating anyone. Vocal minority LGBT community, haha. Absolute joke.

Everyone knows the human rights abuses of Saudi, not just their LGBT laws unless you live under a rock. Even if being gay was legal, it wouldn't change any of their other abuses. Again, not wearing rainbow laces or kit is not a thing that's a problem but selling out to Saudi is. Stop making false equivalence
 
MrWilliams said:
Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?

Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
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So LGBTQI+ rights are puffy social justice campaigns? What's the point of your message exactly?
 
MrWilliams said:
Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?

Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
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Yes him moving over there for money does invalidate what he said previously. Actions speak louder than words
 
JSArsenal said:
So everyone who was saying that Henderson made the move to support his family.

What's the reason he's over there now that he's come out and said it isn't about the money?

(We all know it's about the money but just curious to see whether anyone still thinks this is a good look. I think he would have been better off not saying anything at all)
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Moving for money at this stage to secure your family is as good as any move in my book. He should just own it
 
Rooney in Paris said:
So LGBTQI+ rights are puffy social justice campaigns? What's the point of your message exactly?
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My point is these SJ campaigns are all lip service. Kneel down for ‘Black Lives Matter’ but what has really changed?

Euro nations wanted to wear the One Love armband at WC’22 but once a little pressure came they folded.

These campaigns are puffery for people to feel like they actually did something.
 
SilentWitness said:
...and in turn I would be surprised if they followed the Quran and Islam completely 100%. I think that religion and people and cultures evolve with time and the world around them, especially depending on where you live or the circles you surround yourself in. Obviously others don't in terms of religion and believe that there is only one way or the right way to follow as yourself and @Rooney in Paris and @Mogget alluded to!
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I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written.

Islam isn't really a religion that can "evolve" because by doing so it sort of goes against the main principles of Islam itself.
 
Mogget said:
I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written.

Islam isn't really a religion that can "evolve" because by doing so it sort of goes against the main principles of Islam itself.
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Interpretations can evolve and the way people follow those interpretations. I definitely don't know everything or nearly enough about Islam or the Quran but what I have read and what I've read from scholars in the field of Islam etc. is that there are different interpretations and progressions but again it depends what line of thinking you are from and if you are being 'literal' to that initial birthing of the religion then yes, i understand what you're saying.
 
Mogget said:
I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written.

Islam isn't really a religion that can "evolve" because by doing so it sort of goes against the main principles of Islam itself.
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Yeah but turning a blind eye to certain things doesn't make you a non-muslim, it just means you arent a muslim purist or all in so to speak. I dont know Islam is a religious doctrine and muslims are people. If they believe Allah is the only god and Muhammed is his messenger they are muslims to some extent at least whether or not they follow it strictly. Dunno maybe im just talking mumbo jumbo.
 
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Gehrman said:
Yeah but turning a blind eye to certain things doesn't make you a non-muslim, it just means you arent a muslim purist or all in so to speak. I dont know Islam is a religious doctrine and muslims are people. If they believe Allah is the only god and Muhammed is his messenger they are muslims to some extent at least whether or not they follow it strictly. Dunno maybe im just talking mumbo jumbo.
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What if the religious doctrine itself says you aren't a true follower if you don't follow certain it strictly?
 
Wanted to add a perspective following a few recent posts on this thread.

Whether people appreciate it or not people who claim to be allies of a community will be held to a higher standard than those who do not.

Henderson went out of his way to show allyship to the LGBTQ+ community and personally I appreciated that, but when it became inconvenient for him he walked away. I am afraid he cannot have it both way, in my opinion it is immeasurably more damaging to the community as a queer person to see a supposed ally walk away when the going gets tough. Walking away when the going gets tough is not an option that is available to minorities of any group, which is why allies are so important. He was an ally until it might cost him a huge pay day, what kind of ally is that really?

He might not have enjoyed the negative attention, perhaps the money will help him get over it.
 
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Mogget said:
What if the religious doctrine itself says you aren't a true follower if you don't follow certain it strictly?
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Then hopefully a lot of people dont give a shit about that especially if its imcompatible with human progress since then. I know quite a few people like that. Im not disputing that you're most likely technically correct.

Its mainly the hadiths that are referenced for opposing homosexuality but they are still 2nd hightest authority of reference its not so much the quran.

https://quran.com/4:16/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran
 
MrWilliams said:
My point is these SJ campaigns are all lip service. Kneel down for ‘Black Lives Matter’ but what has really changed?

Euro nations wanted to wear the One Love armband at WC’22 but once a little pressure came they folded.

These campaigns are puffery for people to feel like they actually did something.
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Not quite sure what point you're trying to make, especially in relation to JH's interview.
 
MrWilliams said:
Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?

Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
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Care to give me a list of things that are more important than human rights?
 
The guy is a bit dumb isn't he
MrWilliams said:
Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?

Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
Click to expand...

Henderson seems to be a complete sell out and it's good and normal that people feel disgusted by that. Maybe you should try to increase your standards of human decency because they seem very low.
 
Mogget said:
I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written.

Islam isn't really a religion that can "evolve" because by doing so it sort of goes against the main principles of Islam itself.
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You realize the Old Testament says homosexuals should die? It also allows you to beat your slave to death as long as he/she doesn't die until 1-2 days after the beating. Don't see many Christians doing that nowadays, though, despite the Old Testament being unchanged.

People 500+ years ago were homophobe and cruel, that doesn’t mean it’s impossible for religious people nowadays to hold different views. The problem with Islamic cultures is more that none of them are secular states and thus quran is often taken as literal as a constitutional law.

Actually, like the Bible, the Quran is full of logical flaws, which can serve as an angle for re-interpretation. For example, many nowadays will tell you quran allowing the husband to strike his wife is a mis-interpretation of domestic violence: https://www.abuaminaelias.com/quran-let-muslims-beat-wives/

And some are even advocating diversity in quran:
https://www.mpvusa.org/sexual-diversity

In the end, people believe what they want to believe. Facts rarely even matter. You can see it with the US political system, it doesn't matter what arguments the other side brings forward, they will assume it to be wrong, because it's the other side. It's basically cognitive dissonance as described by Festinger (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Leon-Festinger/Cognitive-dissonance). Which brings us back to Henderson: I'm pretty sure he believes all the nonsense he spewed in that interview. He believes it because it's so convenient for him to do so. It's self-preservation for his own ego. Which, in fairness, seems to be quite big and thus in need of a lot of protection.
 
I've always liked and respected Henderson. Seemed like a loyal, standup, hardworking guy. But this is one of the worst interviews I've ever seen, he basically said all the wrong things, doesnt he have a PR team? He even managed to turn Liverpool's fans against him by implying he left because of Klopp. I have no problem with players signing for money but at least be honest about it.
 
Glorio said:
Moving for money at this stage to secure your family is as good as any move in my book. He should just own it
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His family were "secured" years ago. He's already a multi millionaire.

I'm pretty sure I'd make the same move as Henderson but I like to think I wouldn't lie about my motives (I'm also greedy).
 
duffer said:
His family were "secured" years ago. He's already a multi millionaire.
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If they want to live like us plebs, sure.

duffer said:
I'm pretty sure I'd make the same move as Henderson but I like to think I wouldn't lie about my motives (I'm also greedy).
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Exactly, me too. If he can't be honest, he can just be quiet. How hard is it to just keep his head down for a couple of years while making tons of money? We'd already forgotten about him.
 
Does anyone begrudge him for going for the money? He doesn’t need to dress it up as something it isn’t.

If I was offered an obscene amount of money to live a couple of years in Saudi Arabia, I’d be on the plane in a flash. And I’m sure most people would.
 
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