Jordan Henderson | New Athletic Interview: I strongly believe that me playing in Saudi Arabia is a positive thing

And we arrive at the conclusion that as a footballer, it's best you shut the feck up and ignore any advocacy, because internet folk will judge you otherwise. cf Rashford, who actually put food in the mouths of children.
They can support whatever causes they want but they shouldn't turn their back on them at the first sign of money. You'll note Henderson is the only one really getting criticism.

I myself was actually in a bit of an argument in the other thread (slightly) in defense of the players making the move to Saudi Arabia for the money.

I won't defend Henderson though because as someone else said above he put himself on this pedestal
 
Don't care much if he's criticised but funny how we hold footballers to higher moral standards than our politicians.

Perhaps, it's because football (or sports, in general), as a means of escapism, provides fertile ground for the creation of cult heroes, whereas we see in politicians, although we will never admit it, traits of ourselves, both as individuals and as a collective.
 
Perhaps, it's because football (or sports, in general), as a means of escapism, provides fertile ground for the creation of cult heroes, whereas we see in politicians, although we will never admit it, traits of ourselves, both as individuals and as a collective.
I'd say it's the other way around actually; we see a bit of ourselves in professional footballers as just regular guys who are just very talented/gifted playing football, whereas we already know the bulk of our politicians are money-grabbing self-centered assholes with little to no moral values if they have the opportunity to improve themselves or get up the career ladder.
 
Perhaps, it's because football (or sports, in general), as a means of escapism, provides fertile ground for the creation of cult heroes, whereas we see in politicians, although we will never admit it, traits of ourselves, both as individuals and as a collective.

Also, kids who look up to Rishi Sunak should be taken to therapy. Quickly.
 
They can support whatever causes they want but they shouldn't turn their back on them at the first sign of money. You'll note Henderson is the only one really getting criticism.

I myself was actually in a bit of an argument in the other thread (slightly) in defense of the players making the move to Saudi Arabia for the money.

I won't defend Henderson though because as someone else said above he put himself on this pedestal

That is exactly what I'm saying.

The smart option for footballers going forward is to shut up and not advocate, because any subsequent imperfection gets ripped apart.

About Henderson, I have come around to the point that if all he did was post on social media about LGBT causes, then the criticism is very much justified. If he actually had boots on the ground and sacrificed time and money, then the criticism doesn't land.
 
See @arnie_ni? As long as you're not big in the fight for LGBT rights, no one will criticize you. So why would I put my neck on the fire as a footballer?
No one is asking you to nor is anyone criticizing you if you didn't. But don't make it look like you care about the cause and then do a 180 turn once the big money comes calling, proving you never really cared that much anyway.
 
I'd say it's the other way around actually; we see a bit of ourselves in professional footballers as just regular guys who are just very talented/gifted playing football, whereas we already know the bulk of our politicians are money-grabbing self-centered assholes with little to no moral values if they have the opportunity to improve themselves or get up the career ladder.

Also, kids who look up to Rishi Sunak should be taken to therapy. Quickly.

I never said you should look up to them. They are the people you trust with your vote to implement the policies you believe in. The Tories stay in power because a good chunk of the British people see them as the best way to move forward. Recent elections and referendums showed that there are majorities identify with what the likes of Trump or Johnson say. And these people will go to great lengths to often defend the indefensible. It's a far more complex relationship that goes beyond any admiration a kid may have for an athlete. More complex than we like to admit. And, of course, the politicians know how to milk it to stay in power.
 
No one is asking you to nor is anyone criticizing you if you didn't. But don't make it look like you care about the cause and then do a 180 turn once the big money comes calling, proving you never really cared that much anyway.
Well said, it's pretty simple really, you don't get to champion a cause and do something genuinely good (while receiving plenty of adulation for doing so), and then do something to completely contradict this without criticism. This doesn't just apply to football but all walks of life.
 
Well said, it's pretty simple really, you don't get to champion a cause and do something genuinely good (while receiving plenty of adulation for doing so), and then do something to completely contradict this without criticism. This doesn't just apply to football but all walks of life.

He hasn't really though
 
No one is asking you to nor is anyone criticizing you if you didn't. But don't make it look like you care about the cause and then do a 180 turn once the big money comes calling, proving you never really cared that much anyway.

He's not doing a 180 turn.

Is Liverpool doing a 180 turn for accepting transfer money from Saudi Arabia?

He hasn't really though

It's how people believe otherwise that is so baffling.

A literal 180 turn would be, "feck LGBT people, I don't think they should have rights, I don't think they should be allowed to watch football, I don't think they're good people".
 
Yeah, I guess greying out rainbow captain armband in a presentation video doesnt tell you anything nor its a 'literal' 180 turn.
 
Yeah, I guess greying out rainbow captain armband in a presentation video doesnt tell you anything nor its a 'literal' 180 turn.

I didn't see that, if that happened then yes he deserves criticism.
 

Fair enough.
Lets see how things play out, he could still be a voice for their cause, and it would actually have more impact if he was still whilst playing in Saudi.
 
Unless he stops championing and speaking up against both racism and LGBTQ+ rights then I disagree, that's my personal opinion though.
Possibly. If he whips off his shirt after his first match to reveal a rainbow coloured undershirt with "Fight Homophobia" emblazoned on it, you may have a point. I doubt he will though. In fact, I reckon his rainbow coloured laces have gone straight into the bin, let alone anything else.
 
Possibly. If he whips off his shirt after his first match to reveal a rainbow coloured undershirt with "Fight Homophobia" emblazoned on it, you may have a point. I doubt he will though. In fact, I reckon his rainbow coloured laces have gone straight into the bin, let alone anything else.

:lol:
 
feck sake.

He is taking money directly from a regime that believes gay people shouldn’t exist and shouldn’t be seen. How is that NOT a 180.

Says a lot that Liverpool fans are giving him more stick than United fans who 12 months ago would be putting the boot in but now accept an increasingly set of ridiculous arguments in order to justify wanting tainted money owning the club.
 
Unless he stops championing and speaking up against both racism and LGBTQ+ rights then I disagree, that's my personal opinion though.
His rainbow armband was literally greyed out in his presentation video. He's accepting to go to a country where it's a crime to be homosexual or part of LGBTQI+ community in general. People are acting like it's a country where it's "just not ok" to be gay, your life is actually in danger if you speak up and want to live out who you are.

This forum is dominated by straight, cis-males, so I don't necessarily expect much understanding on this, but I would at least hope for a bit of open-mindedness, and when you see the uproar from LGBTQI+ activist groups on this, maybe, just maybe, they have an actual point?
 
His rainbow armband was literally greyed out in his presentation video. He's accepting to go to a country where it's a crime to be homosexual or part of LGBTQI+ community in general. People are acting like it's a country where it's "just not ok" to be gay, your life is actually in danger if you speak up and want to live out who you are.

This forum is dominated by straight, cis-males, so I don't necessarily expect much understanding on this, but I would at least hope for a bit of open-mindedness, and when you see the uproar from LGBTQI+ activist groups on this, maybe, just maybe, they have an actual point?

This forum has been demonising Amnesty International and United's own LGBTQ+ groups because they want to be taken over. It won't change for a Liverpool player blatantly being hypocritical.
 
His rainbow armband was literally greyed out in his presentation video. He's accepting to go to a country where it's a crime to be homosexual or part of LGBTQI+ community in general. People are acting like it's a country where it's "just not ok" to be gay, your life is actually in danger if you speak up and want to live out who you are.

This forum is dominated by straight, cis-males, so I don't necessarily expect much understanding on this, but I would at least hope for a bit of open-mindedness, and when you see the uproar from LGBTQI+ activist groups on this, maybe, just maybe, they have an actual point?
Funny isn’t it. All those who proclaim not to have an issue here are never part of the LGBT community. Go figure :lol:.

Having never been subjected to hatred and discrimination due to an inherent characteristic for which they are unable to change, it’s easy for people to dismiss the problems at hand here. They pretend, or want, to see it from the point of view of the persecuted, but in reality they simply can’t.

I know that if I was open about my sexuality in Saudi Arabia I’d face either prison, torture, chemical castration, flogging, or death. But hey, football.
 
Unless he stops championing and speaking up against both racism and LGBTQ+ rights then I disagree, that's my personal opinion though.
I think he's a hypocrite, I don't think he deserves to die over there...
 
His rainbow armband was literally greyed out in his presentation video. He's accepting to go to a country where it's a crime to be homosexual or part of LGBTQI+ community in general. People are acting like it's a country where it's "just not ok" to be gay, your life is actually in danger if you speak up and want to live out who you are.

This forum is dominated by straight, cis-males, so I don't necessarily expect much understanding on this, but I would at least hope for a bit of open-mindedness, and when you see the uproar from LGBTQI+ activist groups on this, maybe, just maybe, they have an actual point?

Im saying I don’t see an issue IF he continues to champion said issues. The act of going to Saudi doesn’t negate his work, unless he stops doing the work. I don’t see how that can be an outlandish view.

Or do you think activists from the outside would have more impact than those from within? And this isn’t me saying he will do that, I’m just saying the act of going there actually to me isn’t a bad thing.

What will determine if hes done a 180 will be his actions going forward. E.g does he still take the time to support said causes.
 
Most Liverpool supporters I have spoken to are made up that he has gone and they got some money for him to put some fresh legs in the midfield. Results next season are far more important to most fans.
 
Im saying I don’t see an issue IF he continues to champion said issues. The act of going to Saudi doesn’t negate his work, unless he stops doing the work. I don’t see how that can be an outlandish view.

Or do you think activists from the outside would have more impact than those from within? And this isn’t me saying he will do that, I’m just saying the act of going there actually to me isn’t a bad thing.

What will determine if hes done a 180 will be his actions going forward. E.g does he still take the time to support said causes.

*Henderson goes to a shelter focused on providing services to LGBT youth who are homeless and donates his time/money

"But he plays in Saudi Arabia so the net effect of his deeds is zero"... says someone online who does the square root of feck all
 
Most Liverpool supporters I have spoken to are made up that he has gone and they got some money for him to put some fresh legs in the midfield. Results next season are far more important to most fans.
I think he still could've played an important role for us next season, if not on the pitch then surely off of it as an influential presence in the locker room.

I'm guessing he wouldn't even have considered the move if he was 5 years younger and/or a surefire starter in our midfield, but the reality is that he would gradually become a role player for us as soon as next season (if he wasn't already last season), so that made his decision a lot easier I guess. I'm kind of bummed he didn't get the proper send-off he deserved (like e.g. Firmino did), but that's on himself.
 
Rightly so! Good to see Liverpool fans doing the same too.
Completely agree, I hope this helps stop footballers (and celebrities in general) standing up for things when it is convenient for them. If you support a cause, support it, if you don't, don't. He should get a huge amount of flak because he took it upon himself to position himself as such an ardent supporter of those groups.

Im saying I don’t see an issue IF he continues to champion said issues. The act of going to Saudi doesn’t negate his work, unless he stops doing the work. I don’t see how that can be an outlandish view.

Or do you think activists from the outside would have more impact than those from within? And this isn’t me saying he will do that, I’m just saying the act of going there actually to me isn’t a bad thing.

What will determine if hes done a 180 will be his actions going forward. E.g does he still take the time to support said causes.
This is a bit of a cop out - he's going to have no influence whatsoever from within, he's a football player without any real clout (it's not like he's Ronaldo or Benzema and even they would get shut down immediately) and the act of going to Saudi completely undermines any work he has done for those groups of people. Sure, as someone posted above, if he rips off his shirt to reveal a rainbow flag or similar public gesture people will think he's a hero but I doubt he wants to go to jail. It's actually not that big a deal in the grand scheme of everything wrong with the world, the sad thing is many people probably would sell their morals for such an insane amount of money, but he should get all the stick he's getting for it because it's important we are, at the very least, held accountable for what we say in public, esepcially if we are a public figure/celebrity.
 
He’s a coward and a man without true convictions.
 
Proof? Or just baseless conjecture?

I am on record saying that if his advocacy was just social media tweets, then yes, one could say his move to Saudi Arabia pooh-poohs his social media tweets.

However, if he has donated money and time to LGBT causes in the UK (which is not implausible, footballers donate to causes all the time), then no, a move to Saudi Arabia does not invalidate tangible acts of service that have benefited actual people. And it would be dumb to argue otherwise.

The people calling him a hypocrite are absolutely certain that all he has done is yap his mouth and slap #LGBT tags on social media. I am saying that given no one knows the extent of his advocacy, the hypocrite tag doesn't make sense.