I'd not seen those quotes, cheers for re-sharing. I can see why he's opened himself up to all the criticism.
Jordan Henderson | New Athletic Interview: I strongly believe that me playing in Saudi Arabia is a positive thing
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I understand him. How could he ever be expected to feed his family on the measly income he had until now? His grandgrandgrandchildren might actually have to work themselves. Terrible thought. Thanks to his move, nobody in the Henderson house will have to endure hunger again. A real hero.
To say everyone has a price is over the top.
there’s many ways of being happy in life, and they are not all bound to 700k a week in Saudi Arabia. There’s plenty of ways for a normal guy to be happy without having to sell yourself to Saudi Arabia. Money’s great, but to some extent when you already made it, it’s not biting necessary to get more. Its probably a natural thought to many simple-minded footballers however.
Which is another way of saying that not doing anything at all makes you a better person than doing something and then being a hypocrite about it later on.
The funny thing about these discussions are the people explaining that no one would have done otherwise. As if people don’t leave money in the table for myriads of morale reasons all the time.
I wouldn’t do it. They could offer me billions and I wouldn’t.
I wouldn’t do it. They could offer me billions and I wouldn’t.
You forgot his grandgrandgrandgrandson’s grande noir. That needs feeding too in the year of 2160.
Well it depends how you look at it. The good in this subject he attempted to do in the past was when he spoke out and said that he finds it mind blowing that people are ostracised for their sexual orientation, and that he will stand shoulder to shoulder and support the LGBT community. He’s now going to go and make a fortune in a place where the very existence of an LGBT person is a criminal act.
He described the human rights abuses in Qatar as shocking and horrendous, and has then decided to go and play footie in a place which is notably worse when it comes to these issues.
It’s not about being a saint all the way (although I’m wondering what part of anything he did makes him saint like?) You’re complaining that he’s getting a worse go of it than someone who had done nothing, but Henderson did do nothing, he just gave a big spiel about how proud he was to be considered an ally and how he stands with his gay brothers and sisters and how they have his support and then fecks off to a place where their existence is against the law.
Of course he’s going to get more flack than someone who never claimed to be this big ally and someone they can count on.
Fair play to you mate!
Come on, if you talk the talk, you should walk the walk or else you are not to be taken serious. Of course he is more criticised than other players who are not that hypocritical.
He attampted to do something good? Well, he failed miserably. What are all the fine words worth when you sell your principles at the earliest opportunity, especially when you are already filthy rich?
Its a funny thought when you think it all the way to the end really. In the year of 2160 Hendo’s last line of spoiled brat scum heritage will make for a great anti-hero movie set in Saudi Arabia. Plot: his money dries up and he’s addicted to Louis Vuitton bags while he also finds out he’s bisexual.
Only Rob Schneider could pull that role off
Exactly.
If someone spends the last year talking about how Israel and their hostilities directed against the Palestinians are shocking and horrendous, that he stands shoulder to shoulder with Palestine and that as well as being proud to be an ally he wants to use his platform to change things. Compared to another person who gives no opinion on Israel and Palestine at all over the last year and they both set off today to work in Israel the former person will always get more flack in that scenario, and it’s not because society struggles dealing with imperfection or that he wasn’t a saint all the way through, it’s obvious why isn’t it?
Same with any context, if they claimed to stand shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine and then went to work in Russia, if they called China shocking and horrendous for their treatment of the Uyghurs and then went to make big money in China, if they spoke loudly about how immoral Britain is for their role in the arms trade and how they’d use their platform to change things but started working there without a peep. Those people will always get more criticism than someone doing the exact same thing only without making claims about standing shoulder to shoulder with the affected parties, and pledging their support to try and improve the situation for those who are affected.
While it’s a different stance to my own, I can fully understand why Henderson is taking the money even with his already considerable wealth. I can also imagine that Henderson did believe in what he said at the time. But I don’t see how one can look at the situation and think that Henderson is catching more flack for not being perfect or not following through on saint like behaviour.
Same with any context, if they claimed to stand shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine and then went to work in Russia, if they called China shocking and horrendous for their treatment of the Uyghurs and then went to make big money in China, if they spoke loudly about how immoral Britain is for their role in the arms trade and how they’d use their platform to change things but started working there without a peep. Those people will always get more criticism than someone doing the exact same thing only without making claims about standing shoulder to shoulder with the affected parties, and pledging their support to try and improve the situation for those who are affected.
While it’s a different stance to my own, I can fully understand why Henderson is taking the money even with his already considerable wealth. I can also imagine that Henderson did believe in what he said at the time. But I don’t see how one can look at the situation and think that Henderson is catching more flack for not being perfect or not following through on saint like behaviour.
He has always been a false cnut so doesn`t surprise me in the least.
I've no problem with him taking the Saudi coin, as that's his choice, but it does rather make all of his previous LGBT virtue signalling totally hollow. End of the day, he's just another mercenary footballer.
A job is a job and family is family, I think footballers are massive idiots, but I don't fault them for chasing money. Most of us are.
I don’t believe that’s true. I think there’s many people who just want enough to be secure and don’t strive for more. The ones who chase after every bit of money just make headlines.
And I strongly dislike the comparison between normal employees and professional athletes, who are already millionaires.
And I’m sure that for every player who goes to the Saudi league, we have multiple ones who refute their advances.
It's in the post you quoted.
In those quotes, he never does that so not a hypocrite for me.
Ah I see, it’s not about fitting someone’s definition of an ally, it’s that you’ve invented your own definition of hypocrite
Amen to this.
Unironically, the same people claiming Henderson is virtue-signaling are now engaging in the same thing ("I wouldn't take the money"). People like to point out the imperfections of others (especially rich people and celebrities) b/c it makes them feel good about their own.
Ah I see, your just out here to score points. I don't believe his behavior is contradictory and I told you why. Just like a person can think capitalism is evil and still work within the system.
And it is fitting a definition of a ally as well, since Henderson, a person who actually stood up for the LGBTQ community, is receiving more Slack than those who have said nothing. Even you can see that's absurd at face value.
People are more critical of him because his previous actions come across as contrived and playing the public.
I don't know many people who have an issue with footballers moving to Saudi for the money unless they pretend it's for another reason, it saddens me they are doing it (they are one of a handful of people who could retire today and provide for generations of their family to never need to work again) but most people want to become footballers for the money and fame, it's natural many of them will flock to where the money is.
Henderson looks to the outside world of, and I hate this phrase, being 'bought' - he's advocated for LGBT rights, women's rights and anti racism and yet he will directly be promoting a state which is anti LGBT, sexist and racist. He's made his bed and now he has to lie in it (and I doubt he cares, hence why he's moving there).
I’m not out to score points, I just don’t see how else you could definite hypocrisy like that, unless you made up your own definition. You didn’t address a single one of my points, you just pointed to a definition of hypocrisy that isn’t a definition of hypocrisy. I genuinely assumed like the other guy you hadn’t read all the quotes Henderson had made on the topic, and that when you saw them you’d retract the hypocrisy defence. Something like
“yeah it’s a bit hypocritical but I cant blame him when it’s that much money”
Regarding the bolded, I already explained to B20 why that’s not the case. And like the other part you haven’t addressed any of those points either.
People are critical because they've nothing better to do.
With the new signings at his club it's clear he is going to be on the sidelines. He wants to play regularly. I don't see anyone else joining a bidding war for him. It's a simple decision.
Can't believe people are reacting as if now that he's moved to Saudi, everything he said about LGBT rights is invalidated and they have no choice but to be homophobic now.
I mean it kind of does
The second part of what you said is a legit reason he’d want to move (regardless of where to). First sentence isn’t true, or at least isn’t true for the majority otherwise they’d be all over Telles and Neves etc.
Third part of your post is, and I think you know this, poorly thought out to say the least.
I disagree. He basically said "support gay people". Regardless of where Henderson plays, that's still what we have to do.
What exactly is the negative impact that him moving to Saudi will have on the LGBTQ community? This is a serious question. I'm happy to learn.
Will he?
Is Messi promoting the state of Florida?
Is Onana now promoting the Tories?
If he starts promoting Saudi Arabia on his socials then ok, but otherwise what are you talking about?
The Saudis, encouraged by Henderson's signing, execute 5 more gay children than they would. Henderson is assigned a xLGBT rating of -5
What's not to get? Person A advocates for LGBTQ, Person A then affiliates themselves with an anti LGBTQ organisation. These are high profile and influential celebrities looked up to by thousands if not millions of people, tell me the message that sends?
I would imagine one of the most infuriating things possible for any minority or oppressed group is for celebrities to use your plight as a way to score quick political favour. If you believe in something strongly, that is great, go for it but then stick by it. I am sure Henderson is against all the things he says he is but actions speak louder than words, don't make a song and dance about something you aren't actually that passionate about it makes you look foolish and hurts the people you supposedly support.
Well in the very least it makes his past words and actions seem pretty shallow. If someone was a strong advocate for human rights and highly critical of China, then ends up moving there to take their money and perhaps become an ambassador of sorts. That sound totally normal to you?
I get the message that people in positions of power can be manipulative and not to believe that they'll practice everything they preach. Didn't affect my relation with LGBTQ people one bit.
This is an excellent point. I'll admit I didn't think of it like this. Thanks!
I understand your point, I just disagree. I don't think he's being disingenuous nor do I think his actions are counter to his beliefs. As I said before, his comments were in support of the community and expressed disgust at the way they are treated. There was no call to action regarding employment in a country that contradicts those beliefs. Furthermore, he's playing club football for a professional team in SA, not becoming an ambassador or sitting on the board of an anti-LGBTQ group. Ignoring the differences in situations underlines my point about wanting perfect allies.
I'm curious though. Where did the hypocrisy begin? Is he a hypocrite for playing in the World Cup or is that ok?
Is it confirmed that Henderson has done nothing apart from tweet about LGBT advocacy? He's done nothing tangible like volunteering, outreach, donations?
If so then the accusations of him being a clout seeker have a little validity. However if he's walked the walk then playing for a club in Saudi Arabia (and nothing beyond that) negates what he has done.
If so then the accusations of him being a clout seeker have a little validity. However if he's walked the walk then playing for a club in Saudi Arabia (and nothing beyond that) negates what he has done.
Do you believe sportswashing is a thing?
Footballer advocates for LGBTQ+ rights in middle eastern states.
Middle Eastern state buys footballer silencing his advocacy.
The abhorrent laws and attitudes towards the LGBTQ+ community become just that little bit more normalized.
It is not an overnight thing but more of an insidious slow silencing of those who would speak out and it's impact is simple. Liverpool fans idolize Henderson, now that he is going to play in Saudi they will tie themselves in knots to justify it and start spouting nonsense about how progressive the nation has become under MBS, don't forget women are now allowed to drive!
Why do you believe he is being signed? Is 33 year old Jordan Henderson worth a 12 million transfer fee and 700k per week salary for his football ability? Of course he is not, you could buy better for far less if it was about football. Is an upfront 12 million fee and 700k a week worth it to secure a brand ambassador for your state, someone who is influential and idolized by millions throughout the West? Of course he is, it is a small price to pay.
He does not have to promote Saudi Arabia on his socials. He is promoting them merely through his actions and that is what he is being paid for and any semi educated 12 year old could explain that to him. Some Ally, Jordan is as much a supporter of the LGBTQ+ community as Benjamin Netanyahu is of Palestinian rights.
Fascinating that a United forum has so many people bending over backwards to excuse this hypocrisy.
The people who say anybody would sell their principles for the right fee sadden me. Your lot will inherit the earth, and it’ll be ugly.
The people who say anybody would sell their principles for the right fee sadden me. Your lot will inherit the earth, and it’ll be ugly.
I do not, no. Well, not in the way a lot of posters on the caf believe. So obviously I won't challenge a lot of your post, but question: the abhorrent laws against LGBT people will become more normalized where? In Saudi Arabia (I don't think they can get more bigoted)? In the UK?
Yup it’s the bottom line. I doubt anybody thinks he or the other players who’ve gone to Saudi Arabia are homophobic, sexist etc. however the difference being Henderson put himself at the forefront of pushing for those issues in a public domain. Nobody asked him to do that. He did it himself and by doing that it placed him in a positon of power, responsibility and trust.
By running off to Saudi Arabia to collect a cheque it simply shows him up as a virtue signalling hypocritical tosspot, like many many people in the world these days especially those in the public eye.
Many many people who have lost sight of actually ‘doing the right thing’ and instead like it to appear that they do the right thing and fight all the right causes but when push comes to shove they simply do not care as much as they like it to appear.
I’ll admit, he fooled me. A colleague said to me a month or so ago “Hendo might go to Saudi” I responded with basically a “no chance”.
In the West in general.
Much of what is normal in Saudi Arabia is deplorable outside of the Middle East and in brief activists make life difficult for them when they try do business in the West. The approach is that rather than change their own laws. which they of course find perfectly reasonable, is to instead try to influence the opinions of those that oppose them. It is far more effective to be subtle and improve your image through ownership of beloved sporting institutions and through buying off influential figures like Henderson than it is to adopt a confrontational stance with the protestors.
The results are already in. Significant market research has been done on the topic and the image of Qatar, Dubai, Saudi Arabia et al has been greatly enhanced in the West over the past decade, most people paid no attention to the deaths of migrant workers at the World Cup, they just revelled in the spectacle and that is how it works.
did any of the significant market research say any one person had changed their views from anti to pro homophobia or just that Dubai has some nice hotels to spend a week in the sun?
> Talks in favor of LGBT and women rights
> Moves to a country where being gay is illegal, and accepts to receive money directly from very wealthy homophobes.
What do you think about an open pro-palestine person going to work in Tel Aviv for a big paycheck that will directly come from an israeli billionaire who donates money to the Israel government?
Are you sure that makes sense? Think about it for a second.
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This is a really unfair reading of the situation. No one forced him into protesting their own causes, no one expected him to actively fight against it his whole life, no it is "not on them" for trying to find a social leader out of an athlete which hasn't happened. Henderson made some statements himself where he's mentioned various things such as standing shoulder to shoulder in solidarity with the LGBT community, using his platform to improve things, drawing a line under homophobia while simultaneously raising awareness of it and how he's proud to be an ally. No one put a gun to his head and made him say any of this stuff (although that is what the average telegraph reader believes
.) But the people who Henderson had been speaking to with these statements, are allowed to have an opinion on him making these claims and then choosing to work in a place where same sex relations are heavily criminalised. You might not see anything wrong with doing that but you're not the one who is considered immoral, evil, and basically less than human by that judicial system so your perception of working within that system might differ to there'sNo one has said anything remotely close to what you're saying here though about hating all of the middle east or Islam! There's a massive difference between discussing the judicial system in a country and criticising that, to acting in a bigoted manner towards the populace. The pay day argument in general isn't an instant justification. Otherwise I could head to Russia and make a fortune and brush off any moral objections by pointing out it's just a payday and don't make it more than that. A lot of people wouldn't want to work in Israel due to the Palestine situation, China because of the Uighur situation, USA because of the police situation, UK because of the food situation.
Agree that it's important and this dude could have taken that advice