All CBs improve when they can form a partnership, just compare Rio after Vidic arrived with the player he was when he was swapping between Silvestre, Brown and Blanc. Evans and Smalling deserve an extended run together before we even consider signing another CB.
Jonny Evans - What do we think?
- Thread starter LawCharltonBest
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I definitely think there's potential for a top partnership among Evans, Jones, Smalling
With all due respect, the crux of the matter is not his distribution of the ball or the usage of it. If that was the case then the likes of Nemanja or Lucio wouldn't have been among the best defenders of the last decade. Granted Jonny is good with the ball, but is it his primary function as a defender ? Absolutely not. When I see him play I see a lot of deficiencies in the defensive aspects. He is easily dragged into blind positions, he reads the game kind of OKish but I guess reflexively is slow to avert danger, he is a little suspect in the air, prone to lapses in concentration, can get bullied by powerful strikers - case in point Lukaku this season.
I guess people get attracted to his sexy playing style, with his forward runs and good ball-work but as a defender he has a lot of question marks on his primary skills. His application and dedication to the craft may be world-shattering but hard work will only take you so far in professional sports when you are up against players who have an almost infinite ceiling. The margins are very fine and when you are in a CL match against the the legends of football - Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta - anything but the best will get found out. As it happened to us twice in the final.
In my humble opinion.
Easier to name who wouldnt.
Lukaku bullied Vidić. Evans didn't even play that game, iirc it was Vidić and Smalling.
Also, Lukaku is a beast and he's going to bully a lot of very good CBs in his career never mind a 32 year old whose pace is on the wane.
Let's stop focusing on one minor detail and pay more emphasis on the bigger picture. I misplaced Evans in one match big deal, the rest of the post speaks for itself.
Seriously it wasn't a minor detail. You said he got bullied in a match he didn't even play in, by a player he hasn't even faced this season. If things like those 'minor misplaced details' are forming the basis of your opinions then actually your opinions might as well be void.
Whenever evans is discussed you tend to get a fair few posters who say 'I'm not sure he's good enough to be first choice' this is despite the fact he's been first choice for almost 3 seasons now and we've done pretty well in that time
He's currently our best defender and his superior ball skills leads me to believe it'll be him+1 going forward, I'm sure it would've been under SAF anyway maybe Moyes will buy someone in the summer which will change things obviously
I hate to say this as it's often said for no good reason but I can't help but wonder if he'd be thought of more highly were he not N.Irish
He's currently our best defender and his superior ball skills leads me to believe it'll be him+1 going forward, I'm sure it would've been under SAF anyway maybe Moyes will buy someone in the summer which will change things obviously
I hate to say this as it's often said for no good reason but I can't help but wonder if he'd be thought of more highly were he not N.Irish
Yes, he has certainly been first choice here for the last while. That doesn't mean he should be first choice at Manchester United though, or that he's good enough to be first choice in a CL winning team.
I like Evans but if he's a first team CB here then CB is an area that could do with strengthening. If he is actually our best CB then that's twice as true.
Ok so let me get this straight. If I make the accidental typo of "this" instead of "last" when Evans was over the place at Hawthornes - all my other opinions become invalid ? Good to know.
I like Evans, at least grown to like him, but I rate Smalling above him currently, and I think Jones is a greater talent. Moyes has a difficult task deciding who which two players he's going to go for. Jones has pretty good distribution, right - at least better than Vidic could ever boast.
I'm sure he came off injured in that game and why would you deliberately judge him on that dead rubber when all our lads were playing like they'd had a few heavy nights out celebrating in that last couple of weeks of the season. I would t judge any of our lads on those games. I reckon we would have beaten Chelsea and Arsenal had the games been meaningful and more effort put into the performances.
Lo ! I have seen the light and fully support the Legend Lord Evans now. Thank you for saving me from the darkness of reality.
Are you 5 years old?
This forum is full of people with differing opinions. Just if you are arguing points against Evans, it's unfair to use games he didn't play in or dead rubbers where he came off injured and most of our lads were nursing sore heads from heavy nights out to make your points.
It's like the Rafael thread in reverse. For what it's worth, Evans will be a very valuable player for us in the long run. Fergie let Pique go because Evans was coming through and I think it'll do wonders for us. I wish some of the idiots who want Rafael sold can see sense by at least comparing the situation to Evans, instead of just quoting 'Manager's plans'.
Sir Alex let Pique go despite promising him a bunch of games because he couldnt have stopped him going to Barcelona. Even if it was after running down his contract. It had nothing to do with Evans, who was behind in the pecking order and wasnt being promised lots of games
its certainly going to be interesting to see what Moyes does, I'd imagine no matter what happens the opinions on his decisions are going to be split.
I'd agree with Jones distribution, maybe his time in midfield has helped him in that department?
I've agreed with you in my first post that Evans won't be a top-drawer defender, but not being a top-drawer defender doesn't mean he isn't worthy of starting in the first team. Ronny Johnsen was not a world class defender like Stam was, yet he was Stam's main defensive partner during our 1998/99 season along with Henning Berg. Evans may not be up there with Ferdinand, Vidic, Bruce, or Stam, but he looks better than O'Shea and Silvestre and has had a better playing career than Brown, up to now, even though Brown had a higher ceiling than Evans.
As others have mentioned, there are several reasons why Evans isn't a top-drawer defender by now. One of those reasons that I highlighted in my first post is the fact that he doesn't have the natural instincts of a central defender that Smalling or Jones have (which is why I think those two will be ahead of Evans, eventually). However, like Gary Neville, if Evans continues to work hard and iron out more of his weaknesses, he'll have a successful career, here. This is the point many of us, here, are trying to articulate. Your posts seem to indicate that you think that Evans won't be a key contributor to this side. I think otherwise.
During the time when Jones and Smalling are developing their game, still, Evans will be key in keeping composure and providing leadership in this side, IMO. As I said before, he may not a world class man-marker (decent, though), and his in-the-box positioning is a bit suspect, but his other strengths convince me that he can be a key player for us in this side like Brown and O'Shea were even if they weren't regular starters. As I said earlier, if he keeps continuing to improve himself and continue to work hard on the training ground, he will become a key player for us even if he's not going to be a starter, here.
Don't regret the post, Mauzindark. It's nice to read differing views around here rather than the same old, same old. It's not like I 100% disagree with your post. You have made some good points, but you have come out as being too pessimistic, to me.
I appreciate your critique of my analysis. You are probably right guess I'm being too harsh and pessimistic in my evaluations. I mean who knows ? Maybe he'll spring a surprise on me. I would love nothing better than him proving me wrong BTW. A home grown defender, cost us nothing, really loyal and would maybe save us 30m on a world class defender. All power to him.
In him, Smalling and Jones we have potential but we need that is come to the fore sooner rather than later.
Even IF he had been bullied by lukaku (which he didn't), what point does that prove?
Evans handled drogba at his peak, Vidic was tore apart by et'o. Does that mean I thought he couldn't defend?
Evans handled drogba at his peak, Vidic was tore apart by et'o. Does that mean I thought he couldn't defend?
Apparently he ruined a Player's career called Stuart Holden. Evans fouled him, was sent off and apologised publicly for the tackle. 36 stitches, 3 major surgeries and 3 years later he is still injured. He came back after a year out Today and lasted 25 mins because of another injury. He cried when he went off.
I am not writing this to blame Evans (although it is his fault), but from a psychological stand point, does it effect him mentally/feel guilty? Also, Stuart would need unbelievable mental strength to still persist trying to live the dream.
This is so sad.
I am not writing this to blame Evans (although it is his fault), but from a psychological stand point, does it effect him mentally/feel guilty? Also, Stuart would need unbelievable mental strength to still persist trying to live the dream.
This is so sad.
Blow for Holden as Bolton midfielder is forced off after just 23 minutes of latest comeback bid following string of injuries
By ELLIOTT BRETLAND
PUBLISHED: 20:04, 3 March 2014 | UPDATED: 23:13, 3 March 2014
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Bolton Wanderers midfielder Stuart Holden lasted just 23 minutes on his return to action on Monday night.
The 28-year-old, who was making his first comeback since suffering a cruciate knee ligament injury while on international duty for USA last June, broke down during his side's Under 21 clash against Everton.
Holden was seen holding the back of his right knee after playing a pass out wide but managed to continue before going to ground just five minutes later after stretching for a loose ball.
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Unfortunate: Stuart Holden trudges off the Reebok Stadium picture after pulling up injured on Monday night
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Blow: Bolton midfieklder Stuart Holden (left) was forced off after just 23 minutes of his return to action
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International: Holden, pictured against the Czech Republic in 2010, has been capped 25 times for the USA
More...
Holden's injury woe
March 2010: Breaks his leg while playing for USA against Holland
March 2011: Injures knee after challenging Jonny Evans
September 2011: Holden plays full game against Aston Villa but then misses season after follow up shows cartilage damage
June 2013: Tears anterior cruciate ligament against Panama in CONCACAF Gold Cup
Mar 2014: Makes comeback for Bolton Under 21s but is forced off after 23 minutes
The American was able to get to his feet but had to be replaced by Luke Woodland.
Bolton said on the club's official Twitter page: 'For those asking, Holden was able to run off unaided down the tunnel. Update as and when we have it.'
Holden was able to walk down the tunnel without any help but this is yet another setback for the Bolton man who has been battling to regain fitness since 2010.
The midfielder first broke his leg while playing for the USA four years ago.
Following his comeback, Holden then injured his left knee as he challenged Manchester United defender Jonny Evans for the ball in March 2011 which kept him out for a year.
His latest return comes after he tore his anterior cruciate ligament, again during international duty, against Panama in the CONCACAF Gold Cup last June.
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Painful: Holden was injured in March 2011 after injuring his knee in a challenge with Jonny Evans (right)
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Top-flight: Holden, pictured against Chelsea, signed for Bolton when the club were in the Premier League
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...der-forced-against-Everton.html#ixzz2uwdU1hpD
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Jesus, thats harsh on the lad 
Poor fecker
Poor feckerJust one of those things, i wouldn't put anyone at fault for it.
EDIT: Feel sorry for him though as he looked like he would be a good PL player.
EDIT: Feel sorry for him though as he looked like he would be a good PL player.
Yeah, terrible for Holden, always comes across like an incredibly nice bloke, always positive. Doesn't look good for him.
"Apparently he ruined his career" what a weird thing to post. Bit of an agenda maybe?
Bad tackles happen every week, up and down the country.
Holden does have terrible luck though. Didnt he get his eye socket smashed in a few years back as well?
Bad tackles happen every week, up and down the country.
Holden does have terrible luck though. Didnt he get his eye socket smashed in a few years back as well?
Bad tackles are common? Breaking someone's knee is not an everyday occurrence.
Breaking someone's knee is probably the worst kind of damage to a footballer's career! Look up the anatomy.
I am not blaming Evans as it was not intentional, but technically he did ruin his career.
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Indeed. Never trusted them.
So are you blaming Evans or not?
"United manager Sir Alex Ferguson and Coyle both absolved Evans of deliberately causing injury to the Bolton midfielder.
Ferguson said: 'Everyone knows Jonny is not a malicious player. 'I think the red card was probably given because of the injury. You can't have any real complaints, it was unfortunate, maybe.'
Coyle added: 'In real time, it looked as though two players were committed going for the ball. There didn't seem any malice."
Very weird, why go on about it that way? You're a United fan right?
Anyway, I do feel for the lad - but hopefully he'll recover and get a decent contract somewhere.
Hope the lad Holden makes a recovery. It's just one of those things that sometimes happen in football when every 50/50 is fiercely contested. I'm 100 % sure Jonny didn't do it intentionally. Even Ryan Shawcross, one of the roughest defenders in the league was all tears when he accidentally fractured Ramsey's ankle. The only case I can remember for intentional malicious career threatening fouling was Roy Keane vs Alf Inge Haland.Ben Thatcher on Pedro Mendes was pretty bad as well.
Ok that too, I wasn't aware of that. But the main point is that such cases are very few and far between. I'm sure 99 % of player inflicted injuries aren't intentional.
No, he didn't. Holden had an injury history before too (broken leg). And anyway it was an unintentional tackle by Evans. These things happen but rarely players get injured from those. Likely he will feel sorry but I doubt that he would blame himself, shit happens and you move on, c'est la vie.
He has been our most consistent defender in the last couple of seasons. Playing consistently can do wonders for a player and he just hasn't been playing consistently this season and having a different partner every game also hasn't helped. This is the reason he has looked a shadow of himself this season.
By looking at the injury history Holden seems to have little patience in managing his injury. Has to hold the back of his knee in his comeback game after an injury, still stays on and manages to so he has to go off again 5 mins later. Rushing a torn cruciate injury is probably the most stupid thing you can do. Also, tearing a ligament is the kind of injury that is unlikely to be blamed on another player. Its often down to unfortunate bending or simply weakness of the ligament rather than impact caused by a tackle made by an opponent. I personally tore my cruciate just in a rapid change of direction at speed playing football. Was the original injury caused by Evans' tackle even the same ligament injury that he got against Panama? If it was a seperate injury than hes probably just unlucky with weak knee ligaments. Sucks for the lad but its not Evans' fault.
Could be out for another three weeks according to The Mirror.