Jonny Evans - What do we think?

LoiusVanGaal said:
good CB, not great at defending against players with a lot of height or speed though, good squad player but imo I'd rather have better players as our first choice there.
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Damn.

I thought you'd take 3-4 weeks to assess the players?
 
Invictus said:
Right now we do lack someone of that ilk considering our projected starters - Shaw, Evans, Jones/ Smalling, Rafael. A top notch defender who's also a vocal leader and organiser at the back. Evans has done well in the past, but it's always been alongside either Ferdinand or Vidic who took up the mantle while Jonny was their understudy. Can he now manage the weight of expectations in their absence and lead some of the younger players ? Maybe he does.. But what if he doesn't ?

With that in mind if we manage to sign someone like Benatia or Sokratis or Hummels, someone who can really organize the backline and coach some of the less experienced ones I for one will breathe a huge sigh of relief.
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The only inexperienced defenders we actually have in our team is Shaw, Thorpe, and Michael Keane. The rest have at least 3 seasons of Champions League football along with Premier League success. Therefore, lack of experience isn't an issue for many of our defenders.

Since this thread is about Evans, I'll discuss our central defence "concerns" through Evans. Evans has shown his talent and ability for quite some time. Having shown this talent and ability, one would have expected him to have become a mainstay in central defence at this point. However, what we've seen is that Evans hasn't been able to do so (mainly down to injuries). Regardless, Evans never sealed himself as one of the central defenders in the first XI. As a result, several football followers seem to think that Evans isn't good enough to be in the first team because he hasn't been a mainstay in it.

I and some others see this differently. For me, as long as Evans shows that he is defensively assured (regardless of whether he was a mainstay or not), I won't feel worried about the prospect of Evans playing regularly for the first team. He's shown more often than not that he's defensively assured whenever he's played, so I have nothing to worry about.
 
golden_blunder said:
This is such lazy commentary, I wish people would actually quantify it. people are like sheep rather than actually watching themselves.

He's had a few games against Andy Carroll where hes been beaten in the air - so what? most centre halfs would lose out to the likes of Andy Carroll. Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister used to have a nightmare against Duncan Ferguson yet they were known as one of the best pairings around.

As for speedy forwards, every defender dreads playing against pace.

i think some people on here are too caught up in trying to get the perfect player, who never gets beaten, never missplaces a pass, never loses an arial duel. Guess what? that player doesnt exist
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Carlton Cole made him look like a school boy as well.
 
mazhar13 said:
The only inexperienced defenders we actually have in our team is Shaw, Thorpe, and Michael Keane. The rest have at least 3 seasons of Champions League football along with Premier League success. Therefore, lack of experience isn't an issue for many of our defenders.
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I think perhaps you've taken the term experience in a more literal context. "Less experienced ones" isn't just referring to top flight appearances where the incoming might have an edge but more importantly experience in terms of displaying the ability to organize and lead the backline - like Sokratis did for Bremen and Greece, Benatia for Udinese and Roma, Hummels for Dortmund and to an extent Germany for a considerable amount of time.

Neither of Evans, Smalling or Jones have evinced that ability on a regular basis. Maybe they can, but haven't got the opportunity yet, in the presence of Rio and Vidic. But we certainly don't have enough compelling data to argue that they can do without a more wiser head in the mix.

Displaying talent and ability is great, but you must always have someone who can pull the strings on the field and marshall the players around him. One can argue that such a player can even overcome perceived deficiencies in his own game and elevate the others around him simultaneously. eg Carragher for Liverpool. Not the most naturally gifted but he had a great presence and that compact defence led Liverpool to 2 European Cup finals in quick succession. Right now we don't have someone who can offer those kind of qualities.
 
Invictus said:
I think perhaps you've taken the term experience in a more literal context. "Less experienced ones" isn't just referring to top flight appearances where the incoming might have an edge but more importantly experience in terms of displaying the ability to organize and lead the backline - like Sokratis did for Bremen and Greece, Benatia for Udinese and Roma, Hummels for Dortmund and to an extent Germany for a considerable amount of time. Neither of Evans, Smalling or Jones have evinced that ability on a regular basis. Maybe they can, but haven't got the opportunity yet, in the presence of Rio and Vidic. But we certainly don't have enough compelling data to argue that they can do without a more wiser head in the mix.
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I'm maybe wrong but i noticed that Evans was very commanding the last two years even with Rio or Vidic besides him. And De Gea too.
 
JPRouve said:
I'm maybe wrong but i noticed that Evans was very commanding the last two years even with Rio or Vidic besides him. And De Gea too.
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Fair enough mate. Though in my estimation it was otherwise. Let's just agree to disagree. :)
 
Invictus said:
I think perhaps you've taken the term experience in a more literal context. "Less experienced ones" isn't just referring to top flight appearances where the incoming might have an edge but more importantly experience in terms of displaying the ability to organize and lead the backline - like Sokratis did for Bremen and Greece, Benatia for Udinese and Roma, Hummels for Dortmund and to an extent Germany for a considerable amount of time.

Neither of Evans, Smalling or Jones have evinced that ability on a regular basis. Maybe they can, but haven't got the opportunity yet, in the presence of Rio and Vidic. But we certainly don't have enough compelling data to argue that they can do without a more wiser head in the mix.

Displaying talent and ability is great, but you must always have someone who can pull the strings on the field and marshall the players around him. One can argue that such a player can even overcome perceived deficiencies in his own game and elevate the others around him simultaneously. eg Carragher for Liverpool. Not the most naturally gifted but he had a great presence and that compact defence led Liverpool to 2 European Cup finals in quick succession. Right now we don't have someone who can offer those kind of qualities.
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The way players can become like this is if they play regularly in the first team. Hummels, Benatia, and Papastathopoulos all played regularly at a young age, thus the reason they became such sort of players.

In terms of our players, Evans was the most regular central defender out of him, Smalling, and Jones, and this shows in the way he has become more assured and confident in his role. In the past couple of seasons, we've seen Evans do what you want from a central defender. He's starting to develop that presence in him. Why not give him the match time to become the leader on the pitch?
 
mazhar13 said:
The way players can become like this is if they play regularly in the first team. Hummels, Benatia, and Papastathopoulos all played regularly at a young age, thus the reason they became such sort of players.

In terms of our players, Evans was the most regular central defender out of him, Smalling, and Jones, and this shows in the way he has become more assured and confident in his role. In the past couple of seasons, we've seen Evans do what you want from a central defender. He's starting to develop that presence in him. Why not give him the match time to become the leader on the pitch?
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I'm not arguing against giving him time to become a leader. What I'm alluding to is that it's very much open to debate whether he can step up because there's not enough circumstantial evidence to point us in that direction. As I mentioned a couple of posts before that, either one of Evans, Smalling, Jones or maybe even all 3 might emerge as leaders, they all have the potential. But potential doesn't always translate into the finished product, it's inherently unpredictable, and unpredictability particularly in an area as decisive as central defence can be crucial. A great example of that is when we didn't adequately replace Stam and later Blanc instead going with Silvestre and Brown. What followed was a bit of a lean patch defensively until the arrival of Vidic.

There might be times when our attackers aren't be able to score more than a goal a match and if the defence isn't airtight that 1-0 could be a 1-1 draw or worse still a 1-2 defeat. All I'm saying is that instead of second guessing and waiting for someone to step up why not go all out and sign the finished product ? Someone who can step right in and pick up from where Ferdinand and Vidic left in a leadership perspective ?

I think a lot of people are underestimating the gravity of our defensive situation. We've just lost about 20 years of experience in one go, and Evra seems to be on his way out. That's 30 years of world class experience voided in one summer. Surely that must be compensated to some degree...
 
Invictus said:
There might be times when our attackers aren't be able to score more than a goal a match and if the defence isn't airtight that 1-0 could be a 1-1 draw or worse still a 1-2 defeat. All I'm saying is that instead of second guessing and waiting for someone to step up why not go all out and sign the finished product ? Someone who can step right in and pick up from where Ferdinand and Vidic left in a leadership perspective ?
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I believe Evans is a defender who can handle the pressure from the opposition if our team isn't able to score more than 1 goal a match. As I said earlier, he doesn't look like a panicky defender who loses the plot when under pressure (same goes for Smalling; Jones is the only one I feel nervous about at this point though this will change with more experience under the belt).

Invictus said:
I think a lot of people are underestimating the gravity of our defensive situation. We've just lost about 20 years of experience in one go, and Evra seems to be on his way out. That's 30 years of world class experience voided in one summer. Surely that must be compensated to some degree...
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I agree with you on this point. We've lost quite a bit of leadership in our defence, and I've voiced a similar opinion in other threads in the past. Of course, Evans isn't currently a leader like Vidic, Ferdinand, Stam, etc., were. However, that shouldn't take away anything from his defensive abilities and his ability to hold tight leads.
 
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mazhar13 said:
I agree with you on this point. We've lost quite a bit of leadership in our defence, and I've voiced a similar opinion in other threads in the past. Of course, Evans isn't currently a leader like Vidic, Ferdinand, Stam, etc., were. However, that shouldn't take away anything from his defensive abilities.
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Definitely. I too am not arguing against his defensive ability. He has good poise, underrated aerial presence, can build up play and is generally quite sound at the back. My prime concern right now is the lack off vocal organisational ability in defence. Someone who can be a pillar of strength for the others to rally around. And since we're a bit lacking in that department, it might warrant a dip in the transfer market. Hence the alleged links to Hummels among others.
 
NinjaZombie said:
Damn.

I thought you'd take 3-4 weeks to assess the players?
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:P

I like him don't get me wrong, just not entirely sure he is of the quality we would want leading our defence, would love to be proved wrong by him (heck by any players I have doubts over, I love the club!) but I can see Jones being moulded into the player we need more than I can see Evans being so.
 
Fair enough, quite a few posters aren't sure whether Evans will reach the next level as United CB. But what he's shown us already is that he can hit peak form. His problem has been consistency. I think this is the season when we'll see consistency from him.
 
It's an important season for him, he should be moving into his peak years.

If he has a good year and firmly establishes himself as first choice CB, there no reason why he can't make the position his own for 8 years. If he flops this season or is struck down by injury and someone else shines then I think his long term future at the club will come into doubt.

It's his time
 
Thought he did v well yesterday especially given the inexperience playing alongside him in Blackett.

His biggest season to date imo. Hopefully he'll stay fit and prove himself as good as some us here know he can be.
 
Not surprised if Evans is considered the best out of the 3. He is easily more of a footballer than the other two. Hope he stays fit throughout the season.
 
Not surprised Van Gaal rates him the most out of the three cbs we have. Proper footballer, and a good defender.
 
This coming season is extremely important for Jonny, if he would not be able to overcome these stupid injuries he gets all the time, i don't think he will fulfill his potential and become really top CB.
 
His ability to play out from the back will be vital for us in this season. He has the ability to do well just needs to stay fit and have a consistent run of games for him. In terms of centre backs I believe the future is bright for us- Jones, Smalling and Evans are 3 talented centre backs.
 
dutch experts seems to love evans so much. i remember one of the de boer twins named evans on the bench for his european all star team which means evans is the 3rd best CB in europe in his books.
 
Just to revert to my OP back in February. He has once again got himself injured at the worst time.

Never known a player to get injured as regularly at the worst times than Evans.
 
starting as he means to go on, injured already. what is it with our defenders
 
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