[The Black Pearl]

To be fair to Jones and Smalling they are not consistently giving goalscoring opportunities away like Evans. I think most fans are recognising right now the standard he is showing is like Cleverley before him not good enough.

Both Jones and Smalling were arguably at fault for giving away the goal today and Smalling wouldn't have been a million miles away from shouldering most if not all the blame if Crouch's header went in instead of hitting the post either. Then there was the hand ball in the box which we were very lucky to get away with.

If we're to judge all of our back 4 today on individual or potential costly errors I don't understand how or why Evans is being thrown to the dogs and Smalling is being praised as much as he is for his performance in an other thread. From what I can see it appears like Evans has been latched onto now and every little error he makes will be zoomed in on and the positive things he does will be largely ignored, it'll be the other way around when it comes to his defensive partners though.

 

[bosnian_red]

If you say so lads, and yet similar poor performances today from Evans and Jones result in vastly different reactions on here. A few posts in the Jones thread and pages worth of rubbish in here. He had a few decent games in a row there and this thread went quiet then a bad performance when most of the team were dogshit and again people pile in here (even during the actual match) to bash him. But all fair objective criticism i'm sure.

He's the Cafs new whipping boy it seems to blame all the teams failings on.



Come on mate Jones was as bad today. I never mentioned Smalling.







Isn't this the Evans thread?

They get different reactions because there are 5 years between them yet Jones has been much better while still being poor this season. Jones has time on his hands the nature of his mistakes are generally just different to Evans'.

 

[Revan]

If you say so lads, and yet similar poor performances today from Evans and Jones result in vastly different reactions on here. A few posts in the Jones thread and pages worth of rubbish in here. He had a few decent games in a row there and this thread went quiet then a bad performance when most of the team were dogshit and again people pile in here (even during the actual match) to bash him. But all fair objective criticism i'm sure.

He's the Cafs new whipping boy it seems to blame all the teams failings on.



Come on mate Jones was as bad today. I never mentioned Smalling.

Isn't this the Evans thread?

I criticized Jones too (in fact, I never understood why he is so highly rated), but come on, he was better than Evans again. While both Smalling and Jones make mistakes, they are different to nonchalant mistakes Evans makes every week. Just look today, he is 10 yards ahead of Diouff but then slows down, thinks and so Diouff gets the ball, makes Evans his bitch before he goes one on one vs Evans. That's the type of mistake that you don't expect even kids too, let alone a player who has been playing on EPL regularly for 7-8 years.

Smalling actually played good and he has been by far our best CB this year.

Also, Cleverley was mentioned because it was the same thing last season. People criticized him for being shit, but then someone came and said that he has been unfairly criticized and is becoming a scapegoat, not mentioning how bad he was playing.

 

[marjen]

I'm losing faith in him.

At the moment he's a shambles and he doesn't seem to bring together good performances for any significant amount of time.

 

[J-Stander]

He looked potentially top class alongside vidic or Ferdinand but he's an absolute liability without someone solid next to him. He's a good defender but makes far too many mistakes to be a regular here. Needs to be shipped out in the summer.

 

[stevoc]

They get different reactions because there are 5 years between them yet Jones has been much better while still being poor this season. Jones has time on his hands the nature of his mistakes are generally just different to Evans'.

Jones hasn't been pulling up trees this season for United, in fact he hasn't been all that since we signed him 2011 and granted yes hes 22 and i have hope he will improve and become a good player and yes evans is 5 years older.

But none of that changes the fact Jones was just as awful today yet Evans is once again the one being vilified. Double standards.

 

[stevoc]

I criticized Jones too (in fact, I never understood why he is so highly rated), but come on, he was better than Evans again.

To be fair mate im not exactly keeping track of which posters are criticizing which players. Only noticing that Evans comes in for much more flak when in fact Jones cost us a goal today and was generally poor in my opinion, just as bad and arguably worse than Evans.

While both Smalling and Jones make mistakes, they are different to nonchalant mistakes Evans makes every week. Just look today, he is 10 yards ahead of Diouff but then slows down, thinks and so Diouff gets the ball, makes Evans his bitch before he goes one on one vs Evans. That's the type of mistake that you don't expect even kids too, let alone a player who has been playing on EPL regularly for 7-8 years.

I don't know about kids but how about Vidic he would never make similar mistake surely?

Smalling actually played good and he has been by far our best CB this year.

He has been mate i agree, coincidentally he is also the only centre back of the 3 to get a decent run in a back 4. And generally when hes had to play in a back 3 hes been in the centre. Makes life a bit easier for a CB when you have another CB either side of you no?

 

[Sam]

He's an absolute liability. He couldn't defend a long ball if his life depended on it.

He was terrible and has been for a while now. Also, someone needs to tell him not to start mouthing off at others for his own mistakes.

Thats really starting to piss me off.

 

[Cheesy]

He looked potentially top class alongside vidic or Ferdinand but he's an absolute liability without someone solid next to him. He's a good defender but makes far too many mistakes to be a regular here. Needs to be shipped out in the summer.

Yep, that's always been his problem. Doesn't look anywhere near as comfortable when he's the main defender at the back, which is worrying at his stage. I'd hesitate to just get rid though, since he can be a decent player still when on form. I wouldn't rule out him improving and finding some better form again, although I don't think he's ever going to be top class.

 

[Acole9]

He was terrible and has been for a while now. Also, someone needs to tell him not to start mouthing off at others for his own mistakes.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this, it was embarrassing to watch really given that his own performances have been poor to say the least. We need to get rid of him in the summer, he's an average Premier League defender at best and would be better suited to a team like Hull or Sunderland which is more his level (Sorry to any Hull or Sunderland fans who are posters on here).

 

[Ringo 07]

He's about the same level as Wes Brown. Not really good enough for united but would star for a midtable club team

 

[Kounan]

He's about the same level as Wes Brown. Not really good enough for united but would star for a midtable club team

I always thought the he was good for United, but with a quality partner. He had his flaws, but I did actually like him a lot.

But this season, he isn't even a championship player, he is psychologically really low down.

He was never that bad (we can say what ever we want, but SAF would not have allowed him to be such a big part of the team, if he thought that he isn't good enough at least for rotation, lets just remember his loan spell at Sunderland), but this season something is really wrong with him.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

To think he was been talked about as been our captain at the start of the season, if he doesn't up his game quickly he'll be first out of the door in the summer, has Sunderland transfer written all over it.

 

[stevoc]

Another new stick he seems to be getting beat with now is him having a go at the other defenders and the keeper which as the senior player back there he should be doing. I would be worried if he wasn't, hes our most experienced defender the fact hes currently not in the best form is irrelevant. Given his experience and the defenders and keepers he's played with he's the logical choice to marshal the defence.

Yet there's loads of posts in here over the last few weeks criticizing his lack of leadership.

I guess right now Evans is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Literally anything he does can be twisted into a criticism.

He's about the same level as Wes Brown. Not really good enough for united but would star for a midtable club team

That could be a compliment to Evans or an insult to Wes Brown.

How many times did you see Brown play before his bad injuries mate? If not for his horrendous luck with injuries Brown would have been one of the best around, Wes was hugely talented.

What was it 2 cruciate injuries one in each knee and a broken leg. That will feck up anyone's career.

 

[Ixion]

Another new stick he seems to be getting beat with now is him having a go at the other defenders and the keeper which as the senior player back there he should be doing. I would be worried if he wasn't, hes our most experienced defender the fact hes currently not in the best form is irrelevant. Given his experience and the defenders and keepers he's played with he's the logical choice to marshal the defence.

Yet there's loads of posts in here over the last few weeks criticizing his lack of leadership.

I guess right now Evans is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Literally anything he does can be twisted into a criticism.

He shouldn't be having a go when he's the one making mistakes. He had a go at Shaw today when Evans himself was the one at fault, tries to pass the buck. If he wants to show leadership then lead by example and play well.

 

[LonelyFire]

He's about the same level as Wes Brown. Not really good enough for united but would star for a midtable club team

Wes Brown was actually a quality centre back. Light years in front of Evans.

Evans utd career is very quickly coming to an end. He is utterly atrocious.

 

[roseguy64]

I always thought the he was good for United, but with a quality partner. He had his flaws, but I did actually like him a lot.

But this season, he isn't even a championship player, he is psychologically really low down.

He was never that bad (we can say what ever we want, but SAF would not have allowed him to be such a big part of the team, if he thought that he isn't good enough at least for rotation, lets just remember his loan spell at Sunderland), but this season something is really wrong with him.

No he was this bad previously under SAF. That season he was getting similar vitriol and people wanted him gone. Turned it around the next season and improved greatly and convinced a lot of people of his quality. For some reason, this season he's been back to that stage and looks lost again. The problem for him now is LVG is not SAF. Evans doesn't have history with him. Ferguson has seen the numerous good and great games Evans has had which vastly outnumbered the bad ones so he could let slip this form. Not so with LVG and he's older now. He's got until the end of the season to turn it around most likely.

 

[roseguy64]

Another new stick he seems to be getting beat with now is him having a go at the other defenders and the keeper which as the senior player back there he should be doing. I would be worried if he wasn't, hes our most experienced defender the fact hes currently not in the best form is irrelevant. Given his experience and the defenders and keepers he's played with he's the logical choice to marshal the defence.

Yet there's loads of posts in here over the last few weeks criticizing his lack of leadership.

I guess right now Evans is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Literally anything he does can be twisted into a criticism.

Yeah I remember Ferdinand and Vidic mouthing off similarly when they had bad runs of form. They still berated their teammates for errors.

 

[stevoc]

He shouldn't be having a go when he's the one making mistakes. He had a go at Shaw today when Evans himself was the one at fault, tries to pass the buck.

I don't remember that incident today mate so i have no idea if he was at fault. But you can't single out one incident like that and damn him for it, since he's came back he's been vocal and showed leadership in keeping younger defenders in line, how can that be a bad thing?

If he wants to show leadership then lead by example and play well.

You say that like he's trying to play badly he's not. Hes was decent the last few games.

So when he has a poor game like today he shouldn't pull any of the younger players for their errors? He should remain quiet and offer them no advice?

Can't say i would be happy with any player who hid and shirked responsibility like that if i am honest.

Yeah I remember Ferdinand and Vidic mouthing off similarly when they had bad runs of form. They still berated their teammates for errors.

Exactly mate all this lead by example stuff only applies in certain situations and rarely at the back. You need someone at the back who is vocal and takes responsibility regardless of their own current form.

 

[Sunny Jim]

The problem with Evans is that, by his standard, good game means only 1 Evans moment aka feck up. He always makes at least one mistake.

 

[LonelyFire]

I don't remember that incident today mate so i have no idea if he was at fault. But you can't single out one incident like that and damn him for it, since he's came back he's been vocal and showed leadership in keeping younger defenders in line, how can that be a bad thing?



You say that like he's trying to play badly he's not. Hes was decent the last few games.

So when he has a poor game like today he shouldn't pull any of the younger players for their errors? He should remain quiet and offer them no advice?

Can't say i would be happy with any player who hid and shirked responsibility like that if i am honest.



Exactly mate all this lead by example stuff only applies in certain situations and rarely at the back. You need someone at the back who is vocal and takes responsibility regardless of their own current form.

I disagree with that - watch every one of games for the last 3 seasons (particularly this season) and watch his distribution. He is utterly clueless at how to keep the ball. He continually plays the long ball down the channel and looks surprised when our midget attackers can't win a header. Add this alongside our knowledge of him being bullied by physical strikers and it doesn't equal a Utd centre back.

Our defence is getting exposed because we have an inability to retain possession - Evans is a huge part of that problem.

 

[mazhar13]

I don't know what happened to him this season, but Evans is frequently facing problems with dealing with physical players. Before, it was Benteke. Now, it's Diouf. Evans just feels uncomfortable around them like he was during the 2009/10 season. Another issue I've seen arise from him is his lack of confidence in himself when on the ball. He tries to release the ball to quickly, unlike in the past, when he'd know when to carry the ball forward and when + where to pass the ball to. He seems to play too safely as a wide central defender when he should be more risky in his game when he has space in front of him. This game, he was decent at carrying the ball forward, but he was too slow in his game and gave lots of time for Stoke to organise themselves and read our other players' movements.

In terms of his man-marking and positioning, he's doing alright, but he gets too easily unsettled by the physical players and too often looks to release the ball quickly and safely or hoof it forward.

 

[Gannicus]

One word: Abysmal.

But dire will do.

 

[Kounan]

No he was this bad previously under SAF. That season he was getting similar vitriol and people wanted him gone. Turned it around the next season and improved greatly and convinced a lot of people of his quality. For some reason, this season he's been back to that stage and looks lost again. The problem for him now is LVG is not SAF. Evans doesn't have history with him. Ferguson has seen the numerous good and great games Evans has had which vastly outnumbered the bad ones so he could let slip this form. Not so with LVG and he's older now. He's got until the end of the season to turn it around most likely.

I remember that season, but he wasn't this bad. He had more problems in a way that he would make maybe one mistake, but it would somehow always and up as a goal, or huge chance for the opponents so it was a problem, but this season he has 2-3 mistakes per game and mistakes which I just can't understand, because they come AFTER he gains the upper hand.

 

[antsmithmk]

I'm not adding anything new but he looks shot scared of a ball played into a powerful forward at head height. He doesn't seem to be able to clear the ball out of our final 3rd when it's bouncing or at height.

 

[finneh]

Jones hasn't been pulling up trees this season for United, in fact he hasn't been all that since we signed him 2011 and granted yes hes 22 and i have hope he will improve and become a good player and yes evans is 5 years older.

But none of that changes the fact Jones was just as awful today yet Evans is once again the one being vilified. Double standards.

Jones average rating this season: 6.1

Evans average rating: 4.8

Says it all really.

 

[Dumbat12]

I think most people here are misjudging how good he was 2-3 years ago. IMO, he was never that good and he always made crucial mistakes, but most of the time Vidic and Ferdinand bailed him out and it wasn't so noticeable. As for mouthing off at defenders and De Gea, he was always this way. That's not something new at all. When De Gea was still new here, he was constantly shouting at him even when he himself made the errors, for some reason.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Jones average rating this season: 6.1

Evans average rating: 4.8

Says it all really.

Don't think you can take those ratings seriously, Smalling's rating is 5.6, but he has had just 2 poor to bad matches.

 

[finneh]

Don't think you can take those ratings seriously, Smalling's rating is 5.6, but he has had just 2 poor to bad matches.

Nah, Smalling started the season really poorly and because he's only played 11 games the City performance where he got 2/10 or whatever has dragged him down. Although I have to say his average rating from me is 6.2.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Nah, Smalling started the season really poorly and because he's only played 11 games the City performance where he got 2/10 or whatever has dragged him down. Although I have to say his average rating from me is 6.2.

He did? He wasnt very poor vs Swansea, got injured vs Sunderland after a good half, then subbed in next to Blackett in the Leicester game, afterwards the City perfomance, that's about it. He was very good vs Chelsea, Arsenal, Hull, Stoke and Southampton until he got injured.

 

[Reds-of-Ulster]

Jones average rating this season: 6.1

Evans average rating: 4.8

Says it all really.

RvP has a 5.8.

Falcao has a 6.1.

Says it all really....


I don't think you can take the ratings too seriously.

 

[finneh]

RvP has a 5.8.

Falcao has a 6.1.

Says it all really....


I don't think you can take the ratings too seriously.

Again I don't think that's particularly surprising. RVP was utterly useless before the last 7-8 games.

 

[Reds-of-Ulster]

Again I don't think that's particularly surprising. RVP was utterly useless before the last 7-8 games.

But the rating system is flawed, because if you look at all their performances you can't say that RvP has been worse than Falcao this season.

 

[Ekeke]

He looked potentially top class alongside vidic or Ferdinand but he's an absolute liability without someone solid next to him. He's a good defender but makes far too many mistakes to be a regular here. Needs to be shipped out in the summer.

Smalling is more than solid.

Evans was babysat by 2 of the world's best CBs, it was easy to look fairly good in that situation and thats all Evans did. He was never convincing with his physicality and none of his defensive skills stood out as something better than other young defenders. There was a myth that he read the game well, but there were countless times when he read the game poorly and that got him into trouble.

 

[stevoc]

I disagree with that

You disagree with what that he was decent against Spurs and Newcastle?

Then you are only letting yourself see the bad and ignoring the good mate, even in here the general consensus was he was good defensively against Spurs and had a decent game vs Newcastle.

watch every one of games for the last 3 seasons (particularly this season) and watch his distribution. He is utterly clueless at how to keep the ball. He continually plays the long ball down the channel and looks surprised when our midget attackers can't win a header.

No thanks mate, out of interest have you recently watched the 95 games he's played in the last 3 seasons? I will go out on a limb and say you haven't, because if you had you would realise the rest of your post is wild exaggeration.

 

[stevoc]

Jones average rating this season: 6.1

Evans average rating: 4.8

Says it all really.

I put very little stock in those ratings mate, no doubt after everyone of our recent matches there will have been a load of 1 and 2 votes for Evans from the bashers that frequent this thread regardless of how good or bad he played.

Evans hasn't been great this season but neither has Jones, they should be roughly the same rating within half a point of each other with Jones slightly higher. The fact they are not proves my point, Evans is being more harshly judged for performances similar to what Jones is producing.

 

[finneh]

I put very little stock in those ratings mate, no doubt after everyone of our recent matches there will have been a load of 1 and 2 votes for Evans from the bashers that frequent this thread regardless of how good or bad he played.

Evans hasn't been great this season but neither has Jones, they should be roughly the same rating within half a point of each other with Jones slightly higher. The fact they are not proves my point, Evans is being more harshly judged for performances similar to what Jones is producing.

I disagree. Evans has been a level lower than Jones this year. I'd say Jones being a 6/10 and Evans being a 5/10 is about right. The fact that Evans is the more experienced one that should be stepping up to be the leader makes it even worse.

 

[Ekeke]

Jones wins the ball a lot but makes mistakes. Evans doesn't win the ball a lot and on top of that makes mistakes.

Of course Jones should be a lot higher rated for his season than Evans. If he didnt make the errors in judgement he'd be on par with the best CBs in the league

For example :

Jones averages 2.2 tackles and 4.2 interceptions a match - thats the most interceptions in the league with Jedinak 2nd at 3.8. Jones also averages 6.4 clearances a game, the most at United this season and 2.2 headers won per game. He's had 2 games where he was given the statistical man of the match, our most in RVP with 3

Evans averages 2.7 tackles and 1.9 interceptions. Thats 4th most tackles of United players, but the most of our CBs. He has 3.8 clearances a game which is behind Jones, Smalling, Rojo, McNair and Blackett - in that order. So Evans makes the least clearances out of the box out of our CBs including the youth players promoted. With 1.2 headers he's behind Smalling, Rojo, Jones - in that order. He's been given the statistical man of the match 0 times

Where Evans fares well is amount of passes and pass accuracy. He ranks 2nd out of our CBs behind Rojo in both, but like Rojo is very guilty of suicide passes that have given away chances to the opposition often which makes it hard to praise the other 90% of the time when he's doing okay with his passing.

 

[stevoc]

I disagree. Evans has been a level lower than Jones this year. I'd say Jones being a 6/10 and Evans being a 5/10 is about right. The fact that Evans is the more experienced one that should be stepping up to be the leader makes it even worse.

That's your opinion and that's fair enough mate. I actually agree with Evans being a 5 i have Jones at around 5.5 though he's been generally poor for me. Evans may me older but players of all ages go through periods of really bad form RVP being a recent example. I actually think Evans has been showing some leadership despite his poor form, he's vocal in organising the defence.

 

[dirkey]

That's your opinion and that's fair enough mate. I actually agree with Evans being a 5 i have Jones at around 5.5 though he's been generally poor for me. Evans may me older but players of all ages go through periods of really bad form RVP being a recent example. I actually think Evans has been showing some leadership despite his poor form, he's vocal in organising the defence.

Out of interest, do you think he's done a good job organising the defence?