Joao Neves | signed for PSG

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It looks a total pipe dream but I'd love the see him rotating with Mainoo or Bruno as a different kind of option. I see mainoo as more of an attacking player at the moment. I could see him moving deeper over time but i like him as an iniesta like player (the role not necessarily the talent). I'd probably keep an Ugarte or Casemiro in the team whichever way i set up and they'd be a more important priority at this point. But being able to move Bruno into forward positions and swapping Neves in to give us better control of midfield would be really nice.
If we miss out i'd still love a player like him but they seem a real rarity.
 
Murder on Zidanes Floor said:
I get that but feels a little like buying a talented player but no actual need is solved. A lot of people saying he is not a 6 etc.

He looks very talented but we need a structure to use that talent.
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BenitoSTARR said:
I don’t think he fits into our current set up either. I’ve really tried to think about what has to change to make him work and I don’t think we’ll be able to without dropping Mainoo or Fernandes (which I don’t see happening).

As much as he’s a high potential player with clear talent, sometimes you have to accept we don’t have the role for them available.
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Sounds like the Pogba situation back then.
 
Murder on Zidanes Floor said:
I get that but feels a little like buying a talented player but no actual need is solved. A lot of people saying he is not a 6 etc.

He looks very talented but we need a structure to use that talent.
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His manager for the national team recently told Rio in an interview that Neves is a natural number 6 who can play a number 8.

Having watched 5/6 games of his for Benfica last season I'd have to agree...
 
GueRed said:
His manager for the national team recently told Rio in an interview that Neves is a natural number 6 who can play a number 8.

Having watched 5/6 games of his for Benfica last season I'd have to agree...
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Yeah shame we are unable to compete for him
 
I have no reason to believe this other than a feeling and blind hope, but I think we’re still in the race for Neves and the move will eventually materialize in a surprise manner like the Yoro deal. It may explain why we’re playing hardball for Ugarte and refusing to budge on price. INEOS have pulled a few surprises already and Berrada pushed hard for the club to get Yoro, so why wouldn’t we do the same here?
 
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Giggsy13 said:
I have no reason to believe this other than a feeling and blind hope, but I think we’re still in the race for Neves and the move will eventually materialize in a surprise manner like the Yoro deal. It may explain why we’re playing hardball for Ugarte and refusing to budge on price. INEOS have pulled a few surprise already and Berrada pushed hard for the club to get Yoro, so why wouldn’t we do the same here?
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I agree. We have scouted this player for years so seems abit far fetched that we no longer have interest in this player. I think we are waiting to see what fee Benfica will accept before eventually making a decisive move. One can only hope!
 
Giggsy13 said:
I have no reason to believe this other than a feeling and blind hope, but I think we’re still in the race for Neves and the move will eventually materialize in a surprise manner like the Yoro deal. It may explain why we’re playing hardball for Ugarte and refusing to budge on price. INEOS have pulled a few surprise already and Berrada pushed hard for the club to get Yoro, so why wouldn’t we do the same here?
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PSG badly wants Neves and to move Ugarte, who doesn’t fit Luis Enrique’s football. United signing Neves fecks them on both counts.

Mendes is the agent for Neves, Ugarte, and about ten other PSG players. He has been working extremely closely with PSG since Leonardo left and Campos entered.

That is why United has little chance of signing Neves.

If anything, Mendes may have helped United sign Yoro (another client) with the understanding that you would do him a solid in return by signing Ugarte when the time came.
 
GueRed said:
His manager for the national team recently told Rio in an interview that Neves is a natural number 6 who can play a number 8.

Having watched 5/6 games of his for Benfica last season I'd have to agree...
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Completely depends on the set-up. Won't work as a 6 for us, but will for a team that heavily dominates possession and plays compact football.
 
He's a player who likes to move forward.

I just don't see how that will benefit the overall balance, unless Mainoo suddenly becomes Kanté. It's not like you buy Neves, just to tell him he can't go forward and can't be versatile. What is the point then?

What we really need is a holding midfielder that doesn't go much forward and engages Mainoo and Bruno.

It's boring, I know, but it's what we need more. I'd love a Fabinho (when he was good) type.
 
ROFLUTION said:
He's a player who likes to move forward.

I just don't see how that will benefit the overall balance, unless Mainoo suddenly becomes Kanté. It's not like you buy Neves, just to tell him he can't go forward and can't be versatile. What is the point then?

What we really need is a holding midfielder that doesn't go much forward and engages Mainoo and Bruno.

It's boring, I know, but it's what we need more. I'd love a Fabinho (when he was good) type.
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There’s a slight misconception about what we need in midfield behind a roaming 10 like Bruno. We need a midfielder that is comfortable as a 6 or an 8 in that last spot. Mainoo and the centre midfield partner need to be interchanging depending on where possession is. I think Neves is an ideal fit.
 
luke511 said:
There’s a slight misconception about what we need in midfield behind a roaming 10 like Bruno. We need a midfielder that is comfortable as a 6 or an 8 in that last spot. Mainoo and the centre midfield partner need to be interchanging depending on where possession is. I think Neves fits the bill better than a sole 6 like Ugarte.
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Yeah I agree. I can understand the thinking that we need a pure destroyer, but IMO we need to control games better and Ugarte for the most part won't really help us do that. Neves or Zubimendi will.
Much will also depend on how Collyer does moving into the season. If he has a Mainoo like rise (which admit is unlikely) then we don't even need a Ugarte, and even if he turns out just to be a good addition, it makes a move for a possession focused midfielder a bigger priority.
 
ROFLUTION said:
He's a player who likes to move forward.

I just don't see how that will benefit the overall balance, unless Mainoo suddenly becomes Kanté. It's not like you buy Neves, just to tell him he can't go forward and can't be versatile. What is the point then?

What we really need is a holding midfielder that doesn't go much forward and engages Mainoo and Bruno.

It's boring, I know, but it's what we need more. I'd love a Fabinho (when he was good) type.
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That guy isn’t Ugarte either, so…
 
I would be pretty sure we aren't signing someone that costs what he will cost at this point in the summer. He's the kind of person we go for in a couple of windows time, where we have built out a good team and just need a finishing piece or 2.
 
If we kept Maguire instead of De ligt for one more season and went for Neves instead of Ugarte I’d be delighted with that. He will cost a bit less than the other two players and I think like Yoro he has the highest ceiling and existing game that one can hope for in a player so young.

That’s the way I’d be playing this. I wouldn’t be giving PSG stupid money for Ugarte just so they can go out and buy a better player when we can probably afford the better player if we play our cards right
 
RedC said:
I would be pretty sure we aren't signing someone that costs what he will cost at this point in the summer. He's the kind of person we go for in a couple of windows time, where we have built out a good team and just need a finishing piece or 2.
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Yeah you are absolutely spot on, however the chances of him still being on the market are remote
 
He's obviously eminently talented but unlike Yoro foe whom we had both a very well defined role and dire need, his situation is much less clear were he to arrive here.

I still would like to see us have a go at him lest we miss out on a generational talent but all things considered I doubt our management would go out of its way to land him.
 
Some portuguese TV channels say that the transfer is practically sealed. Apparently PSG is paying 60 million plus 10 million add-ons. They are claiming that Neves already did a goodbye video for Benfica fans.
 
How did they manage that? Aren't Benfica notorious for holding out for release clauses?
 
Insanity said:
How did they manage that? Aren't Benfica notorious for holding out for release clauses?
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I imagine they're the only ones willing to stump the cash up front. I think their plan was to sell Silva and keep Neves, but no one's moved for Silva. I imagine they do need a big sale to fund the summer.
 
Lash said:
I imagine they're the only ones willing to stump the cash up front. I think their plan was to sell Silva and keep Neves, but no one's moved for Silva. I imagine they do need a big sale to fund the summer.
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Hmmm...maybe. This may hasten Ugarte's departure to us, if we are really interested.
 
Lash said:
I imagine they're the only ones willing to stump the cash up front. I think their plan was to sell Silva and keep Neves, but no one's moved for Silva. I imagine they do need a big sale to fund the summer.
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This is correct. António Silva subpar season plus atrocious Euro killed any transfer plans. Benfica did want to sell him and keep Neves but there was no interest and they need the money. Also some news Benfica tried to renew his contract but he felt insulted by their low ball wage offer and forced the PSG transfer.
 
Sly said:
This is correct. António Silva subpar season plus atrocious Euro killed any transfer plans. Benfica did want to sell him and keep Neves but there was no interest and they need the money. Also some news Benfica tried to renew his contract but he felt insulted by their low ball wage offer and forced the PSG transfer.
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Lump sum or amortised?
 
Sly said:
This is correct. António Silva subpar season plus atrocious Euro killed any transfer plans. Benfica did want to sell him and keep Neves but there was no interest and they need the money. Also some news Benfica tried to renew his contract but he felt insulted by their low ball wage offer and forced the PSG transfer.
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This was why I hoped we might be able to get him for less. Didn't know about the renewal bit, but fair play PSG, they have a very good player on their hands.
 
Lash said:
This was why I hoped we might be able to get him for less. Didn't know about the renewal bit, but fair play PSG, they have a very good player on their hands.
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Agreed. I actually rate João Neves and think he will become a top footballer and have a great career. Never saw this in Felix or Sanches. Ramos still has time to turn it around.
 
Insanity said:
Amortization is an accounting technique. I think you mean staggered payments.
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“ Amortization in accounting is a technique that is used to gradually write-down the cost of an intangible asset over its expected period of use or, in other words, useful life.” ?

With a lump sum you avoid the process entirely, no?

Nearly all deals are amortised? The appeal of getting the money in as a lump sum is what clubs would prefer, but is mostly impossible for clubs to pull off because of the balance sheet?

Happy to be educated if wrong.
 
Fortitude said:
“ Amortization in accounting is a technique that is used to gradually write-down the cost of an intangible asset over its expected period of use or, in other words, useful life.” ?

With a lump sum you avoid the process entirely, no?

Nearly all deals are amortised? The appeal of getting the money in as a lump sum is what clubs would prefer, but is mostly impossible for clubs to pull off because of the balance sheet?

Happy to be educated if wrong.
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Usually payments are amortised like you say. Sporting works like that 99,9 % of the times. Lump sum payments happen when they trigger release clause.
 
Fortitude said:
“ Amortization in accounting is a technique that is used to gradually write-down the cost of an intangible asset over its expected period of use or, in other words, useful life.” ?

With a lump sum you avoid the process entirely, no?

Nearly all deals are amortised? The appeal of getting the money in as a lump sum is what clubs would prefer, but is mostly impossible for clubs to pull off because of the balance sheet?

Happy to be educated if wrong.
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It's a slightly separate thing.

You can buy someone paying a lump sum or via instalments but you then amortise the cost of the purchase over the duration of the contract. It's why cash flow sits separately. It's like depreciation but for intangibles. Someone will explain it better.

*Edit - that was too crap an explanation.
Say you buy a player for £100 million on a 4 year contract. 2 years later you sell him for £70 million.

If you amortise the cost over the contract 100/4 then his remaining value after 2 years is £50 million. So in accounting terms you have made a £20 million profit.
It doesn't matter if you are paying by instalments or not.
 
Sly said:
Usually payments are amortised like you say. Sporting works like that 99,9 % of the times. Lump sum payments happen when they trigger release clause.
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That’s was what supposed to be the ace PSG had up their sleeve and why we’d not be able to compete for him. :(
 
Fortitude said:
Wow! Then why the hell aren’t we in on this! :(
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I don't have in depth knowledge of INEOS and how they are working (although impressed with the Yoro transfer) but I think it would be a solid transfer for United. Perhaps they prioritize other positions.
 
DanH said:
It's a slightly separate thing.

You can buy someone paying a lump sum or via instalments but you then amortise the cost of the purchase over the duration of the contract. It's why cash flow sits separately. It's like depreciation but for intangibles. Someone will explain it better.
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Cheers.
 
Sly said:
I don't have in depth knowledge of INEOS and how they are working (although impressed with the Yoro transfer) but I think it would be a solid transfer for United. Perhaps they prioritize other positions.
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Very disappointing.
 
Sly said:
Usually payments are amortised like you say. Sporting works like that 99,9 % of the times. Lump sum payments happen when they trigger release clause.
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Yup. It’s important to distinguish between buyout clauses and release clauses as well. The former is more frequent and more difficult to activate because legally they require the player themselves to ‘buy out’ the contract (though obviously the money will usually come from a club). It inevitably involves different forms of income tax having to be paid as well though there are ways to reduce that depending on jurisdiction. I believe Andre Herreras clause was a buyout clause for example, where we sent lawyers over to try and activate it. This is more common is Spain.

Release clauses are more simple as far as I know in that a club simply deposits the money and it’s then ‘activated’ as such. I think these are more common in Portugal but I’m not sure.

Reporters tend to conflate the two but they are very different in terms of how difficult they are to activate.
 
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