Joao Felix / on loan to Chelsea

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I am starting to have a bigger and bigger problem with this guy:


Athletico takes a gamble on a young talented kid, which could be the only way for them to ever get their hands on the next generational type of player — and he is a total bust for them. After 4 years, he is far from the starting IX.

Now it will according the Fabrizio take a bid — higher than 125m — to get him from Madrid. It’s literary like we would be asking for 90m for Sancho. 100m for Sancho. What is Chelsea getting for Kepa, 150m?

So what is the big deal? Some transfer reporter writes something that is nuts, a lot to get upset about out there if that was enough. But this guy is actively seeking up our fan base, participating at United fan YouTube channels and what not.

Jonathan David is another example. Who could break Lille’s last three big transfers, Botman, Onana and Sanchez? Fabrizio Romano. Why is Lille leaking that information to him? It’s qid pro quo. Right after, Fabrizio is on YT taking about Jonathan David and the United every chance he gets, 50-60m should be enough to get him.

It’s a complete joke. I like David, but he is a 15-20m signing. 25-30m.

We have been the by far most stupid club on the transfermarket with Woody in charge. He isn’t here anymore. The way someone like Fabrizio is treating this fan base — it’s offensive.

And like, there is of course no direct connection on what someone on Twitter says and what our management does, but it can have a slight impact. Someone hyped in social media will be well received when the signing is made (even if it won’t last). Can impact someone in charge of a transfer, at least everyone will be glad when it’s announced. But especially, it hurts our reputation. Other players, managers, they read this stuff too. They know who Joao Felix is and what he isn’t. Oh so now Man Utd is buying Joao Felix for 150m — you can never stop being surprised with how dumb they are. The damage is already done even if we don’t do that transaction. We want someone else and the selling team goes, they seem interested in Joao Felix at 150m, we want 100m for our guy. Fabrizio would never try some BS like this in relation to Bayern.

Maybe the above is pure drivel and me reading way to much into stuff. But a lot of things are going into these things. The way we are treated as a joke on the transfer market — we need to act. The club needs to act.
 
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The report could just as well be the opposite.

‘Rumors are that Athletico will try to recuperate some of their initial 125m investment they made in Joao Felix. But just finding a buyer for Joao Felix could be hard given his huge wages, and nobody will of course be willing to pay more than 50m for a bench player on a mediocre La Liga team. Felix obviously have no future in Madrid after the fallout with Simeone and it is a situation that never will solve itself since Felix is destined to return to Athletico’s bench after the World Cup. So it is a difficult situation. Will they take the loss now or down the road?’

I mean, this is how it would sound if Sancho clashed with ETH and requested a trade. Fabrizio could never get away with trying to fool Bayern Munich into buying Sancho for 100m in January. They would humiliate him.
 
Makes Florent Sinama Pongolle look like Antony LeTallec
 
God forbid we sign him. Beyond overrated professional diver. I'm convinced it would be another Sancho case and he would struggle with the physical side of the PL.
 
I mentioned him in another thread as one those fantastic footballers, who you can tell has bags of talent but there isn’t a proper role for them. I wouldn’t say no but I have huge doubts about him.
 
No way anyone pays more than 60 million euros for him. You are paying for potential but he is no longer a teenager. I think he has moments of brilliance but that’s all. He would be a great player for someone like city to buy and use as a bench option ala Grealish.
 
He is now rumored being the main target of Juventus as soon as January, through some sort of convoluted deal involving a recompra (a la Morata with Real a few years ago) or a resale slice for Atletico.
 
Hopefully the right thread this time.

I'm not really seeing this "generational talent" everybody keeps talking about. Did decently well and scored against Ghana, but yesterday he wasn't good at all. I'd say the least useful Portugal player on the pitch. He isn't bad, just meh. Falls on the ground with suspicious ease. He will get slaughtered in the Premier League. His best bet is to remain in La Liga at a different club or head for Seria A. Could do well there, similar to Lukaku. We'd be mad to pay anything more than €30M-€40M for him and I suspect this is very far from what Atletico Madrid would demand.
 
He's a luxury player but he really doesn't justify it, Atletico are on the hook for another 4.5 years, they either get rid at a cut price or be saddled with him.

I don't see United selling AWB for anywhere close to the £50m they spent on him, Atletico are in the same boat with Felix, we'll be lucky to get £20m for AWB and Atletico will be lucky to get €60m for Felix.
 
Never seen what the fuss about Joao Felix was all about.

Sure he's tidy player at times but ultimately still very average and a difficult tactical fit no less. Still yet to reach more than 12 goal contributions (G+A) over a La Liga season and he's on his fourth year already.

According to some reports he's also on a €280K/wk salary,
 
I’ll probably be proven wrong but I think another club are going to get badly caught with him. He’ll cost plenty and his wages are huge. Without any particular upside.
 
yumtum said:
He's a luxury player but he really doesn't justify it, Atletico are on the hook for another 4.5 years, they either get rid at a cut price or be saddled with him.

I don't see United selling AWB for anywhere close to the £50m they spent on him, Atletico are in the same boat with Felix, we'll be lucky to get £20m for AWB and Atletico will be lucky to get €60m for Felix.
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Atletico has revamped their teams a bit and now has a squad more or less exclusively off modern players. But if they wanted to get back to basics, AWB could be a pretty good fit for them… ;)
 
Messier1994 said:
I am starting to have a bigger and bigger problem with this guy:


Athletico takes a gamble on a young talented kid, which could be the only way for them to ever get their hands on the next generational type of player — and he is a total bust for them. After 4 years, he is far from the starting IX.

Now it will according the Fabrizio take a bid — higher than 125m — to get him from Madrid. It’s literary like we would be asking for 90m for Sancho. 100m for Sancho. What is Chelsea getting for Kepa, 150m?

So what is the big deal? Some transfer reporter writes something that is nuts, a lot to get upset about out there if that was enough. But this guy is actively seeking up our fan base, participating at United fan YouTube channels and what not.

Jonathan David is another example. Who could break Lille’s last three big transfers, Botman, Onana and Sanchez? Fabrizio Romano. Why is Lille leaking that information to him? It’s qid pro quo. Right after, Fabrizio is on YT taking about Jonathan David and the United every chance he gets, 50-60m should be enough to get him.

It’s a complete joke. I like David, but he is a 15-20m signing. 25-30m.

We have been the by far most stupid club on the transfermarket with Woody in charge. He isn’t here anymore. The way someone like Fabrizio is treating this fan base — it’s offensive.

And like, there is of course no direct connection on what someone on Twitter says and what our management does, but it can have a slight impact. Someone hyped in social media will be well received when the signing is made (even if it won’t last). Can impact someone in charge of a transfer, at least everyone will be glad when it’s announced. But especially, it hurts our reputation. Other players, managers, they read this stuff too. They know who Joao Felix is and what he isn’t. Oh so now Man Utd is buying Joao Felix for 150m — you can never stop being surprised with how dumb they are. The damage is already done even if we don’t do that transaction. We want someone else and the selling team goes, they seem interested in Joao Felix at 150m, we want 100m for our guy. Fabrizio would never try some BS like this in relation to Bayern.

Maybe the above is pure drivel and me reading way to much into stuff. But a lot of things are going into these things. The way we are treated as a joke on the transfer market — we need to act. The club needs to act.
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Man that was a hard read…..

Basically I agree with you though. Nobody is paying £150m for a flop. They can say what they like but they don’t have many options. They can keep him and continue to lose money on their asset which they don’t use or sell him for a reasonable price to a limited number of buyers.

John David ain’t worth no more than £25m so I don’t know why he keeps putting that stupid price tag on him like anyone in world football is going to take that gamble.

It’s annoying because the information he‘s putting out is so illogical considering his connections in football.
 
Bepi said:
He is now rumored being the main target of Juventus as soon as January, through some sort of convoluted deal involving a recompra (a la Morata with Real a few years ago) or a resale slice for Atletico.
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Guessing that deal is off
 
Mainoldo said:
Man that was a hard read…..

Basically I agree with you though. Nobody is paying £150m for a flop. They can say what they like but they don’t have many options. They can keep him and continue to lose money on their asset which they don’t use or sell him for a reasonable price to a limited number of buyers.

John David ain’t worth no more than £25m so I don’t know why he keeps putting that stupid price tag on him like anyone in world football is going to take that gamble.

It’s annoying because the information he‘s putting out is so illogical considering his connections in football.
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Thanks for the feedback, and well put!
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...for-unhappy-atletico-madrid-forward-6pfjzb73z

" Atletico Madrid will listen to offers for João Félix in January, with Manchester United among the clubs interested in the Portugal forward. "

Linked again by Tom Allnut at The Times. Says we discussed a future move for him with Jorge Mendes last summer and Atleti are sounding out buyers with asking price 100M euros.

So asking price £85M for Felix. Considering what else is out there on the market, I would like us to take a punt £60M with a few add-on targets up to £75M, can't see any other top team needing someone like him or being willing to pay the price so maybe less if we're capable of decent negotiations now.

He is not the battering ram style CF some want but he is certainly Tadic/Martial-esque which ETH has stated he likes to work with. Has a great arrogance, flair & swagger to his game that would fit here perfectly & we have been sorely missing. Also adding to our portuguese/spanish speaking contingent should not be overlooked too, great way to tap up more future players and keep current roster happy.

I know some in here are not keen and seem to write him off but like others have pointed out, he is a creative forward playing under the spanish Mourinho and we know what that can do to players. He has gone off the boil a bit since his breakthrough, still hitting double figures in goal and assist every season, but I think that works well price-wise for someone willing to recognise his untapped potential and trust in developing him.

He has it all really, link up play, good pace, two fantastic feet, box of tricks and the cocky personality/confidence to do the unexpected. Could see him and Garnacho really meshing well.

Everyone will remember his bullet header against us in the UCL where we were in a low block on edge of the box, whipped cross came in and he charged on the shoulder of the last man and leaped like a salmon neck out-stretched to cannon it past De Gea. He would really shine here with big bro Bruno slapping him about abit to keep him in line.

He could 100% be our Firmino for a rejuvinated rashford and Antony to both thrive off. Only 23 too so many many years for him to reach his prime too!
 
Alterico are dreaming if they think they're getting €100m for him.
 
That would be like United asking £64m for Maguire.

Anything north of €50m for Felix should be a non starter.
 
A swap deal for Sancho could be on the cards if it is true that Erik is not impressed with him.
 
Black Alabaster said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...for-unhappy-atletico-madrid-forward-6pfjzb73z

" Atletico Madrid will listen to offers for João Félix in January, with Manchester United among the clubs interested in the Portugal forward. "

Linked again by Tom Allnut at The Times. Says we discussed a future move for him with Jorge Mendes last summer and Atleti are sounding out buyers with asking price 100M euros.

So asking price £85M for Felix. Considering what else is out there on the market, I would like us to take a punt £60M with a few add-on targets up to £75M, can't see any other top team needing someone like him or being willing to pay the price so maybe less if we're capable of decent negotiations now.

He is not the battering ram style CF some want but he is certainly Tadic/Martial-esque which ETH has stated he likes to work with. Has a great arrogance, flair & swagger to his game that would fit here perfectly & we have been sorely missing. Also adding to our portuguese/spanish speaking contingent should not be overlooked too, great way to tap up more future players and keep current roster happy.

I know some in here are not keen and seem to write him off but like others have pointed out, he is a creative forward playing under the spanish Mourinho and we know what that can do to players. He has gone off the boil a bit since his breakthrough, still hitting double figures in goal and assist every season, but I think that works well price-wise for someone willing to recognise his untapped potential and trust in developing him.

He has it all really, link up play, good pace, two fantastic feet, box of tricks and the cocky personality/confidence to do the unexpected. Could see him and Garnacho really meshing well.

Everyone will remember his bullet header against us in the UCL where we were in a low block on edge of the box, whipped cross came in and he charged on the shoulder of the last man and leaped like a salmon neck out-stretched to cannon it past De Gea. He would really shine here with big bro Bruno slapping him about abit to keep him in line.

He could 100% be our Firmino for a rejuvinated rashford and Antony to both thrive off. Only 23 too so many many years for him to reach his prime too!
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I agree with all of this!
 
His transfer to Atletico was always wierd for me. I do not know is it some money laundry scheme or Atletico was so dumb to gamble so hard on him.
In few years he will be player who is shufling betwen Inter,Juve,Roma.
 
Honestly, I have been thinking about this, if we buy Joao Felix -- I don't think we are buying him as a striker. I think we are buying him as a midfielder (long term at least), and not even for Bruno's role, but more as a FDJ type/No 8. Eriksson's role. Our De Bruyne.

And I mean, its only when you look at his potential value in that role -- that any kind of higher valuation starts to make sense for him. Like sure, as a shadow no 9 for us, he would create some magic. Him dropping down, Rashford and Bruno taking runs, a YT collection of his top plays for us in the spring of 23' wouldn't be just 40 sec long. But -- there is so much you do not get from him as a Sh-9, right? The PL is an unforgiving league. There will be so many times some mid table team just takes it to us and we scramble to get the ball up to a striker who is just manhandled by the defense most of the time. You don't get much presence in the box. Just look at his stats for Athletico, he doesn't score on will. He has played plenty for them and the 7-8 worst team's in La Liga are much weaker than in the PL. AtM isn't a 40% possession team against Elche and the likes. Over the course of a season, if you play Felix as your striker, you would surely get 4-5 wondrous really important goals scored and manufactured by him -- but you would probably not get 15 in total.

But if you instead ask yourself, what could Joao Felix become in the Kevin de Bruyne role, is the potential there? I mean, its as simple as, its with his ball on his feet looking up field with people taking runs in front of him, his biggest strength lies. Almost every time I have seen him play in Spain, its there he excels. He is underwhelming up front. I think many would be surprised how little he does for AtM in some games over 90 minutes against a pretty poor opponent. But its in like these situations where he stands out, and where you want him:


I have changed my mind a bit thinking it through the last days, assuming that ETH really likes him, that the reports are true, what am I missing, could he have value I didn't see before? And its as a midfielder I see that value. Now I have gone from 'sure I take him, but sticking a value tag to him above 50m is ridiculous, its like Chelsea asking for 100m for Kepa', to can you get it done for 80m -- do it.

This year he would come to us, be eased in, play some as a Shadow 9, some in Bruno's role, some on the wings. Let him learn ETH's system. But start to ease him in to Eriksen's role. Then from the start of next season -- he is the starting MF with Casemiro and Bruno. Eriksen is the rotation player. I love Eriksen. But counting on him to be an insane workhorse for us carries us 50 games a season is insane. Many had questions about his durability 3-4 years ago, for good reasons.
 
He’s not the type of profile we should be blowing a big amount of money on. Has to be a CF who guarantees minimum 20 PL goals.
 
Messier1994 said:
Honestly, I have been thinking about this, if we buy Joao Felix -- I don't think we are buying him as a striker. I think we are buying him as a midfielder (long term at least), and not even for Bruno's role, but more as a FDJ type/No 8. Eriksson's role. Our De Bruyne.

And I mean, its only when you look at his potential value in that role -- that any kind of higher valuation starts to make sense for him. Like sure, as a shadow no 9 for us, he would create some magic. Him dropping down, Rashford and Bruno taking runs, a YT collection of his top plays for us in the spring of 23' wouldn't be just 40 sec long. But -- there is so much you do not get from him as a Sh-9, right? The PL is an unforgiving league. There will be so many times some mid table team just takes it to us and we scramble to get the ball up to a striker who is just manhandled by the defense most of the time. You don't get much presence in the box. Just look at his stats for Athletico, he doesn't score on will. He has played plenty for them and the 7-8 worst team's in La Liga are much weaker than in the PL. AtM isn't a 40% possession team against Elche and the likes. Over the course of a season, if you play Felix as your striker, you would surely get 4-5 wondrous really important goals scored and manufactured by him -- but you would probably not get 15 in total.

But if you instead ask yourself, what could Joao Felix become in the Kevin de Bruyne role, is the potential there? I mean, its as simple as, its with his ball on his feet looking up field with people taking runs in front of him, his biggest strength lies. Almost every time I have seen him play in Spain, its there he excels. He is underwhelming up front. I think many would be surprised how little he does for AtM in some games over 90 minutes against a pretty poor opponent. But its in like these situations where he stands out, and where you want him:


I have changed my mind a bit thinking it through the last days, assuming that ETH really likes him, that the reports are true, what am I missing, could he have value I didn't see before? And its as a midfielder I see that value. Now I have gone from 'sure I take him, but sticking a value tag to him above 50m is ridiculous, its like Chelsea asking for 100m for Kepa', to can you get it done for 80m -- do it.

This year he would come to us, be eased in, play some as a Shadow 9, some in Bruno's role, some on the wings. Let him learn ETH's system. But start to ease him in to Eriksen's role. Then from the start of next season -- he is the starting MF with Casemiro and Bruno. Eriksen is the rotation player. I love Eriksen. But counting on him to be an insane workhorse for us carries us 50 games a season is insane. Many had questions about his durability 3-4 years ago, for good reasons.
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Great post mate and thanks for posting a link I can't post yet. His link up play and play making is really fantastic and high level this is why I know he could replicate what everyone seems to applaud Martial for doing, but also do more of the Firmino role for our goalscoring wingers without a shadow of a doubt.

I agree he can get pushed about by big centre halves but can say that for every striker that isn't a target man really. He is a pure footballer who would help break the press in ETH system with passing combinations without having to hoof it to a big lump upfront or just in behind to relieve pressure, City & Pool don't do that as a first resort and havn't for years. The flicks, chips. outside of the boot and popping it around corners he is capable of is world class.

I understand the negativity on him from some users doubting him but he has had a good defensive education under Simeone, I feel like he would be a shrewd signing that at only 23 years of age, could significantly up his numbers here. You showed really nicely his passing range and imagination, he is great on the counter-attack and would be fantastic in build up with bruno constructing fast passing moves that put our wingers through on goal. It's true Atleti aren't always defensive but this is a player that needs the shackles off and ETH could give him that freedom in our fluid attacking system, really helps he does well out wide too.

Swedish_Plumber said:
He’s not the type of profile we should be blowing a big amount of money on. Has to be a CF who guarantees minimum 20 PL goals.
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Also @Swedish_Plumber the problem with that is if someone is banging in 20 goals anywhere in a top league it is too late for us. The market for guaranteed goals is barren and expensive. We need to get someone who is about to explode or could explode with a bit of guidance and Felix at £70Mish if we can get him for anywhere near that has many upsides. Spending £80/£90m+ on a Osimehn or £60/£70 on a Toney we are just getting our pants pulled down yet again by smarter business and those days should be long gone now, you would hope.
 
Like him but as the above poster has said not at the expense of a prolific CF still needed
 
He's a miles better footballer than Gakpo, it's not even close. I agree with those who compare him to the Martial type, a technical, silky playmaking type of footballer who could bring others into the attack or trouble defenders with quick feet and quick thinking.

I agree that Gakpo is more of an output player, his crossing and shooting is superb. But I really worry he doesn't have the skills or pace to get into those shooting positions in the prem.

Felix's output isn't bad though, averages about a goal every two games in a grimly defensive Atletico team. In a more fluid outfit he could easily bang 20+ goals a season. Felix is actually younger than Gakpo too so plenty of development potential.
 
This is a non-starter. He's not what we need, we're not going to spend ~€100m on a player after the money spent in the summer, and he will have Champions League clubs interested in him.
 
Sort of reminds me of the time we signed Mkhi and not Mane.

Not saying Gakpo is Mkhi level but Felix is just easily superior as a technical footballer.
 
Want

Impressed when he played against us last season. Looks a handful and I think England would suit him
 
Awful player, has done nothing at Athletico. They will want what they paid for him, so we would be dropping £130m+ to make it happen. Why? Spend the money on someone with actual production like Toney.
 
Let's put this way - 50m for Gakpo and 100m for this guy is robbery. Hope we don't fall for it.

Gakpo was agreed for 30m in summer. I don't think he has done anything to prove he is more valuable.

Similarly Felix was an overpaid footballer for 100 + m. He has done feck all to prove his worth. A loan + option to buy at 75m or obligation to buy for 40-50m is what we should look at.

Else just move on. We have other options .
 
Not interested in the money Athletico want. If he is available on a loan with an option to buy for a reasonable price, it may make some sense.
 
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