Jesse Lingard

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Champ said:
Great goal today.

He's a real asset if he is happy being a sub, he's a superb player.
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How is he a real asset? He was brought on at 2-1 to help kill the game...he added nothing. he did precisely this....sent in a wild cross to no one, was dispossessed cheaply and ran offside...once Bruno had killed the game he came up with a quality finish and position for the goal but let’s not inflate the achievement here. I thought for the most part, he showed again how poor his all round game is.

Just can’t understand why some fans asses him based on his best bits only. Football ain’t YouTube. Genuinely, go back and watch what he actually did when he came on. Nothing positive or noteworthy till the goal against an already beaten team.

From the look of the bench yesterday, I just would have preferred DVB to get those minutes. Don’t know why I keep feeling the need to post about Lingard. Maybe just feel the team is looking fresh and invigoratedin parts with Varane, options out wide and Ronaldo/Cavani and Lingard reminds me of worse times.
 
captaincantona said:
How is he a real asset? He was brought on at 2-1 to help kill the game...he added nothing. he did precisely this....sent in a wild cross to no one, was dispossessed cheaply and ran offside...once Bruno had killed the game he came up with a quality finish and position for the goal but let’s not inflate the achievement here. I thought for the most part, he showed again how poor his all round game is.

Just can’t understand why some fans asses him based on his best bits only. Football ain’t YouTube. Genuinely, go back and watch what he actually did when he came on. Nothing positive or noteworthy till the goal against an already beaten team.

From the look of the bench yesterday, I just would have preferred DVB to get those minutes. Don’t know why I keep feeling the need to post about Lingard. Maybe just feel the team is looking fresh and invigoratedin parts with Varane, options out wide and Ronaldo/Cavani and Lingard reminds me of worse times.
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Have you ever wondered why PL managers want and play him? Maybe you're not as good of a judge of footballer's quality as you think?
 
georgipep said:
Have you ever wondered why PL managers want and play him? Maybe you're not as good of a judge of footballer's quality as you think?
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I have no idea why Ole plays him. He has been completely ineffective And unproductive for 6 years! But I know why other Prem managerS might want to Play him. Becausehe is a good player and certainly premier league quality for teams who play counter Attacking football. Can’t link the picture but look up sky sports analysis of Jesse at West Ham. They were literally the fastest paced attacking team in the league bar none. No slow build up. Just break and goal, break and goal. Now look at yesterday’s game...or Wolves...or Southampton...do Utd have ample opportunity to break against the majority of teams with this current line up? No. It’s us against a low block and Jesse has showed ...during the majority of his time at Utd and at the tail end of last season, when WEat Ham had been figured out and teams were wary of being caught out...he had almost no productivity. Poor first touch, Poor ball retention, not great in tight areas, no imagination.

It’s horse for courses. Good player, perfect for counter attacking teams or for use like We used Dan James against City...but as the team develops, and the fear factor returns...more and more teams will sit back against us. Making Jesse even more redundant....and by that I mean if we need to break a team down and have 20 minutes to do so I would prefer to see Cavani for his poaching instincts, Martial in case her decides its 2 years ago and turns it on, Amad for something mercurial and intricate around the box, Mata for his movement and ability to play one touch, VDB for the same...there are so many better options for us that need playing time. Yesterday’s goal didn’t matter ...but soon we will need a goal that will and I think giving those other players Minutes now would serve us better so they are not coming in completely cold and being asked to make the difference.
 
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If he can.maintain that kind of showing off the bench and for easier games it's only a good thing
 
Red_toad said:
So when did these years happen? Facts don't back you up.
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Maybe if you actually tried looking at the facts you would see that facts do back this up. He has had maybe three runs of good form throughout his united career with long spells of mediocrity in between. For example having a run of around two years where he only scored or assisted in one month, before being gifted a goal against leicester in the last game of the season

 
Matt851 said:
Maybe if you actually tried looking at the facts you would see that facts do back this up. He has had maybe three runs of good form throughout his united career with long spells of mediocrity in between. For example having a run of around two years where he only scored or assisted in one month, before being gifted a goal against leicester in the last game of the season

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The other posters point was years
 
captaincantona said:
I have no idea why Ole plays him. He has been completely ineffective And unproductive for 6 years! But I know why other Prem managerS might want to Play him. Becausehe is a good player and certainly premier league quality for teams who play counter Attacking football. Can’t link the picture but look up sky sports analysis of Jesse at West Ham. They were literally the fastest paced attacking team in the league bar none. No slow build up. Just break and goal, break and goal. Now look at yesterday’s game...or Wolves...or Southampton...do Utd have ample opportunity to break against the majority of teams with this current line up? No. It’s us against a low block and Jesse has showed ...during the majority of his time at Utd and at the tail end of last season, when WEat Ham had been figured out and teams were wary of being caught out...he had almost no productivity. Poor first touch, Poor ball retention, not great in tight areas, no imagination.

It’s horse for courses. Good player, perfect for counter attacking teams or for use like We used Dan James against City...but as the team develops, and the fear factor returns...more and more teams will sit back against us. Making Jesse even more redundant....and by that I mean if we need to break a team down and have 20 minutes to do so I would prefer to see Cavani for his poaching instincts, Martial in case her decides its 2 years ago and turns it on, Amad for something mercurial and intricate around the box, Mata for his movement and ability to play one touch, VDB for the same...there are so many better options for us that need playing time. Yesterday’s goal didn’t matter ...but soon we will need a goal that will and I think giving those other players Minutes now would serve us better so they are not coming in completely cold and being asked to make the difference.
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That's all well and good until you consider that he scored twice against a low block for England. Personally, I think he's a good squad player, and he has a few different qualities to Bruno as a ten. In games where we're ahead, he's a decent option from the bench. He's probably a better player to start when playing the big teams that we can counter. The idea that he's awful is ridiculous, as is the idea that he's good enough for a consistent starting spot. But I wouldn't begrudge him minutes. He's a confidence player, so giving him game time on the back of a few international goals was a good move imo. I generally agree with what you're saying though tbf.

I wish Ole had the balls to play Donny as a six in games against the low block. I think he's versatile enough, and technically good enough. Lingard's minutes shouldn't impact Donny's. It's seeing matic in the team that's the biggest worry right now.
 
I don’t get why he lives in so many posters’ heads on here. He came on and did well, scored a nice team goal. He was really good at West Ham, did well for England the other day and did well again here, too.
If he can keep producing like he is now it’s great for us, and if not we’re stacked in attack anyway. Of all the United fans I know, it’s only on here he gets this almost obsessive hate.
 
captaincantona said:
How is he a real asset? He was brought on at 2-1 to help kill the game...he added nothing. he did precisely this....sent in a wild cross to no one, was dispossessed cheaply and ran offside...once Bruno had killed the game he came up with a quality finish and position for the goal but let’s not inflate the achievement here. I thought for the most part, he showed again how poor his all round game is.

Just can’t understand why some fans asses him based on his best bits only. Football ain’t YouTube. Genuinely, go back and watch what he actually did when he came on. Nothing positive or noteworthy till the goal against an already beaten team.

From the look of the bench yesterday, I just would have preferred DVB to get those minutes. Don’t know why I keep feeling the need to post about Lingard. Maybe just feel the team is looking fresh and invigoratedin parts with Varane, options out wide and Ronaldo/Cavani and Lingard reminds me of worse times.
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I've watched the game three times over now, I think I know what I'm on about.

I mean, it's not like he gets into his national team eh?

He's an asset as a squad player and scored a good goal yesterday.

Not sure why you have to belittle that, but I guess agendas get in the way of clarity.
 
His movement between the lines is perfect against a low block. That's what he made his name initially doing.

Lingard has always been a good finisher. His biggest issue has always been creative passing. In a poorly functioning team, this makes him look worse than he is. But as an occasional player filling gaps around better players, he's what you might call a 'multiplier'. Lingard does the spade-work that allows the stars in the shine. Just don't ask him to do too much of shining himself unless you're only going to play on the counter. Thankfully, we have Ronaldo, Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford, Pogba et al for that.

For what it's worth, Lingard has played 8898 Premier League minutes, scoring 28 and assisting 17 (a goal or assist every 200 minutes). By way of comparison, Park Ji Sung played 9443 minutes, scoring 20 and assisting 25 (a goal or assist every 210 minutes). Lingard is outpacing Park with fewer minutes and whilst playing in generally weaker teams.

Given Lingard's output of goal or assist every 200 minutes in the PL, a WUM might also compare his record to Iniesta's of a goal or assist every 245 minutes in La Liga (35 goals and 86 assists in 29669 minutes). Not me, though.
 
I don't care about his past form. He looked great for West Ham last season and he's been refreshingly positive in his pre-season matches and subs so far. I'm looking forward to watching Lingard this season he seems to be a completely different player to the one a couple years ago. Direct, full of confidence and more assured. Glad we have him as an option off the bench and for rotation in the cup games.
 
Dante said:
His movement between the lines is perfect against a low block. That's what he made his name initially doing.

Lingard has always been a good finisher. His biggest issue has always been creative passing. In a poorly functioning team, this makes him look worse than he is. But as an occasional player filling gaps around better players, he's what you might call a 'multiplier'. Lingard does the spade-work that allows the stars in the shine. Just don't ask him to do too much of shining himself unless you're only going to play on the counter. Thankfully, we have Ronaldo, Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford, Pogba et al for that.

For what it's worth, Lingard has played 8898 Premier League minutes, scoring 28 and assisting 17 (a goal or assist every 200 minutes). By way of comparison, Park Ji Sung played 9443 minutes, scoring 20 and assisting 25 (a goal or assist every 210 minutes). Lingard is outpacing Park with fewer minutes and whilst playing in generally weaker teams.

Given Lingard's output of goal or assist every 200 minutes in the PL, a WUM might also compare his record to Iniesta's of a goal or assist every 245 minutes in La Liga (35 goals and 86 assists in 29669 minutes). Not me, though.
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You've seriously just compared Lingard's G/A output to Parks?

Seriously?

Lingard who is in the team to provide attack

Vs

Park who was predominantly in the team to defend and harass opposition players and provide energy through the flanks


captaincantona said:
I have no idea why Ole plays him. He has been completely ineffective And unproductive for 6 years! But I know why other Prem managerS might want to Play him. Becausehe is a good player and certainly premier league quality for teams who play counter Attacking football. Can’t link the picture but look up sky sports analysis of Jesse at West Ham. They were literally the fastest paced attacking team in the league bar none. No slow build up. Just break and goal, break and goal. Now look at yesterday’s game...or Wolves...or Southampton...do Utd have ample opportunity to break against the majority of teams with this current line up? No. It’s us against a low block and Jesse has showed ...during the majority of his time at Utd and at the tail end of last season, when WEat Ham had been figured out and teams were wary of being caught out...he had almost no productivity. Poor first touch, Poor ball retention, not great in tight areas, no imagination.

It’s horse for courses. Good player, perfect for counter attacking teams or for use like We used Dan James against City...but as the team develops, and the fear factor returns...more and more teams will sit back against us. Making Jesse even more redundant....and by that I mean if we need to break a team down and have 20 minutes to do so I would prefer to see Cavani for his poaching instincts, Martial in case her decides its 2 years ago and turns it on, Amad for something mercurial and intricate around the box, Mata for his movement and ability to play one touch, VDB for the same...there are so many better options for us that need playing time. Yesterday’s goal didn’t matter ...but soon we will need a goal that will and I think giving those other players Minutes now would serve us better so they are not coming in completely cold and being asked to make the difference.
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Agree with this and your prior post. That one goal is not sufficient to wipe away the years of inadequacy. There needs to be a lot more over a consistent number of games to prove the doubters wrong
 
Passitlikescholes said:
You've seriously just compared Lingard's G/A output to Parks?

Seriously?

Lingard who is in the team to provide attack

Vs

Park who was predominantly in the team to defend and harass opposition players and provide energy through the flanks




Agree with this and your prior post. That one goal is not sufficient to wipe away the years of inadequacy. There needs to be a lot more over a consistent number of games to prove the doubters wrong
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They are/were in the team to provide the same thing.
 
Dante said:
They are/were in the team to provide the same thing.
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Parks priority was never attack, hence if you're saying they're in the team to provide the same thing, you must be suggesting the same about Lingard.

From a defensive perspective, an energy perspective, Lingard isn't half the player Park was
 
Passitlikescholes said:
Parks priority was never attack, hence if you're saying they're in the team to provide the same thing, you must be suggesting the same about Lingard.

From a defensive perspective, an energy perspective, Lingard isn't half the player Park us
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Lingard is a brilliant presser and a tireless runner, similar to Park. The difference is that he also has better output despite playing with weaker teammates.
 
Dante said:
Lingard is a brilliant presser and a tireless runner, similar to Park. The difference is that he also has better output despite playing with weaker teammates.
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He's physically weak, gets bullied off the ball and can't tackle due to that same limitation of physical weakness.

He is nowhere near Parks class in respect to Parks strengths, absolutely nowhere near
 
Passitlikescholes said:
He's physically weak, gets bullied off the ball and can't tackle due to that same limitation of physical weakness.

He is nowhere near Parks class in respect to Parks strengths, absolutely nowhere near
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Maybe in 2016.

And Park's lack of physical strength was always a big criticism of him.
 
Dante said:
Maybe in 2016.

And Park's lack of physical strength was always a big criticism of him.
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No it wasn't, the criticism of Park was his first touch and passing game but he fixed both those aspects of his game.

I was never a fan of Park at the start but his consistent performances had me eating my words about his ability. For what he did, he was a brilliant player

Lingard has been given chance after chance after chance and plain and simple hasn't delivered. It seems he's got another chance and if he fails to deliver again, that's on him. But as others have said, I'd much rather give those minutes to other players like Amad, Elanga and most importantly Hannibal.
 
He will get picked every game until he signs a new contract, then slowly disappear down the ranks. You watch. It's cheaper for the Glazers to get existing players to stay than move on and buy a new player. Imo we should have said £20 mill and west ham or whoever would have snapped him up
 
Matt851 said:
Maybe if you actually tried looking at the facts you would see that facts do back this up. He has had maybe three runs of good form throughout his united career with long spells of mediocrity in between. For example having a run of around two years where he only scored or assisted in one month, before being gifted a goal against leicester in the last game of the season

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So not hasn’t scored for year then. He had 1 season scored no goals, when he was suffering mental health issues and hardly played, other than that he’s scored pretty much every season he’s been in the first team, his United record for goals is, 6, 5, 13, 5, 4, 0 and then 1 this season. So hasn’t been years and you didn’t stipulate premier league goals only. I don’t rate him, but fans spreading lies about him is just wrong.
 
NK86 said:
Yeah, you moan about people saying some players are not good enough for us and then make snide remarks as if you are superior in your knowledge of this sport.
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I don't moan. I don't make snide remarks neither. [Oh the irony of a person who posted this ( Some of you lot seem to have memories which don't last more than the previous day it seems.) talking of snide remarks:lol:


I simply pointed out the obvious. Posters exactly like you saying the exact same things have been here since the days of Oshea and Fletcher's debut. To them everyone else has memory issues and never knows what they are talking about.
 
Andersonson said:
What the heck are posts like this?

Yes, you don't like Ole playing Lingard over Donny, fine. No need to cry and post several posts about it.

And it ain't gonna change. Lingard is a better player, wether you like it or not
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I’ve only made one post about it ever. I’m not crying, I’m giving my opinion about it on a forum.

VDB is a better player whether you like it or not.
I don’t like or dislike it to be honest I just want the best for Manchester United so if Lingard is better then that’s fine by me.
The truth is neither of us can be proved right/wrong yet as VDB hasn’t been given the chance to either succeed or fail so far unlike Lingard. Which is my actual issue.
I suppose only time will tell, let’s see what Donny has achieved and what level he reaches either here or elsewhere by the time he gets to Lingards age.
 
captaincantona said:
I have no idea why Ole plays him. He has been completely ineffective And unproductive for 6 years! But I know why other Prem managerS might want to Play him. Becausehe is a good player and certainly premier league quality for teams who play counter Attacking football. Can’t link the picture but look up sky sports analysis of Jesse at West Ham. They were literally the fastest paced attacking team in the league bar none. No slow build up. Just break and goal, break and goal. Now look at yesterday’s game...or Wolves...or Southampton...do Utd have ample opportunity to break against the majority of teams with this current line up? No. It’s us against a low block and Jesse has showed ...during the majority of his time at Utd and at the tail end of last season, when WEat Ham had been figured out and teams were wary of being caught out...he had almost no productivity. Poor first touch, Poor ball retention, not great in tight areas, no imagination.

It’s horse for courses. Good player, perfect for counter attacking teams or for use like We used Dan James against City...but as the team develops, and the fear factor returns...more and more teams will sit back against us. Making Jesse even more redundant....and by that I mean if we need to break a team down and have 20 minutes to do so I would prefer to see Cavani for his poaching instincts, Martial in case her decides its 2 years ago and turns it on, Amad for something mercurial and intricate around the box, Mata for his movement and ability to play one touch, VDB for the same...there are so many better options for us that need playing time. Yesterday’s goal didn’t matter ...but soon we will need a goal that will and I think giving those other players Minutes now would serve us better so they are not coming in completely cold and being asked to make the difference.
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Couldn’t agree more with this.
It’s nothing personal against Jesse. I was at Wembley the day he smashed in the volley to win us the Cup which is one of my favourite moments post Ferguson. This is why if anything I’ve given him extra leeway in my judgement.
The club is bigger than any one player though and I just want what is best for the team.
 
I remember a time when people would praise a player who has fought out of mental health and family issues to reinvigorate themselves. The slander against him at times is shocking and though some may think he isn't good enough, other than his one personal crippling season, he has always added something to the team, with a very strong looking first 11 now I can see he will have his uses as a squad option.
 
redMundo said:
I’ve only made one post about it ever. I’m not crying, I’m giving my opinion about it on a forum.

VDB is a better player whether you like it or not.
I don’t like or dislike it to be honest I just want the best for Manchester United so if Lingard is better then that’s fine by me.
The truth is neither of us can be proved right/wrong yet as VDB hasn’t been given the chance to either succeed or fail so far unlike Lingard. Which is my actual issue.
I suppose only time will tell, let’s see what Donny has achieved and what level he reaches either here or elsewhere by the time he gets to Lingards age.
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Well, stats and playtime shows otherwise. Lingard plays , Donny don't.

Beek had over 1500 minutes last year and didn't convince the manager/coaches. If he had done that, Jesse would be sold.

If you can't convince after 1500 minutes you're on thin ice. He has until January to really up his game or he's gone.
 
Red_toad said:
So not hasn’t scored for year then. He had 1 season scored no goals, when he was suffering mental health issues and hardly played, other than that he’s scored pretty much every season he’s been in the first team, his United record for goals is, 6, 5, 13, 5, 4, 0 and then 1 this season. So hasn’t been years and you didn’t stipulate premier league goals only. I don’t rate him, but fans spreading lies about him is just wrong.
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That run of poor form meant he only scored or assisted in one month out of 23 or 24 and that was only ended on the last day of the season when gifted a goal. So two seasons not one.

Even the stats you posted are mediocre and demonstrate one good season out of his many with the club
 
Hectic said:
I don't care about his past form. He looked great for West Ham last season and he's been refreshingly positive in his pre-season matches and subs so far. I'm looking forward to watching Lingard this season he seems to be a completely different player to the one a couple years ago. Direct, full of confidence and more assured. Glad we have him as an option off the bench and for rotation in the cup games.
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And not playing from the right which badly affected his form
 
Passitlikescholes said:
No it wasn't, the criticism of Park was his first touch and passing game but he fixed both those aspects of his game.

I was never a fan of Park at the start but his consistent performances had me eating my words about his ability. For what he did, he was a brilliant player

Lingard has been given chance after chance after chance and plain and simple hasn't delivered. It seems he's got another chance and if he fails to deliver again, that's on him. But as others have said, I'd much rather give those minutes to other players like Amad, Elanga and most importantly Hannibal.
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And clearly those players aren’t considered ready for that yet
 
Matt851 said:
That run of poor form meant he only scored or assisted in one month out of 23 or 24 and that was only ended on the last day of the season when gifted a goal. So two seasons not one.

Even the stats you posted are mediocre and demonstrate one good season out of his many with the club
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I think you’ve been spoiled by Bruno. Most midfielders don’t clock up those type of numbers
 
golden_blunder said:
The other posters point was years
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The link i posted was maybe misleading but the run of terrible form went on for most of another year. If you look at his goal and assist stats for his time at the club, it very much looks like he had one good season out of 6 or 7
 
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golden_blunder said:
I think you’ve been spoiled by Bruno. Most midfielders don’t clock up those type of numbers
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Honestly, this comment is moronic

His stats for the years before his west ham loan were amongst the worst for players in his position in the pl (per minute) despite the fact he was playing for a better team than most

I am certainly not expecting him to live up to bruno levels
 
Matt851 said:
That run of poor form meant he only scored or assisted in one month out of 23 or 24 and that was only ended on the last day of the season when gifted a goal. So two seasons not one.

Even the stats you posted are mediocre and demonstrate one good season out of his many with the club
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‘Hasn’t scored for years’ but that isn’t correct, yet you continue to try and make out you’re correct. Just admit you’re wrong or simply move on and accept you’re wrong.
 
Matt851 said:
Honestly, this comment is moronic

His stats for the years before his west ham loan were amongst the worst for players in his position in the pl (per minute) despite the fact he was playing for a better team than most

I am certainly not expecting him to live up to bruno levels
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Sigh, here we go again

in that year and a bit prior to going to WH, lingard himself has admitted himself that he was suffering with mental health due to looking after his sister and his ill mother. He admitted this affected his form

now Chuck on top United were playing him as a right sided player which isn’t his game

now I’m going to say this once to you, don’t call people’s posts moronic or you won’t be staying.

I will leave it at that, im not getting into this argument again
 
He chose to stay here to pick up his big wages and then he will move to West Ham on a free so he can get even bigger wages.
 
golden_blunder said:
Sigh, here we go again

in that year and a bit prior to going to WH, lingard himself has admitted himself that he was suffering with mental health due to looking after his sister and his ill mother. He admitted this affected his form

now Chuck on top United were playing him as a right sided player which isn’t his game

now I’m going to say this once to you, don’t call people’s posts moronic or you won’t be staying.

I will leave it at that, im not getting into this argument again
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As i said its not just a year and a bit. Its most of his united career barring a few short spells and that run of poor form lasted two years. You seem determined to twist the facts, so i will reserve the right to call these sort of posts out

He is a decent player but not united standard and needs regular games which he wont get with us
 
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