[Lawman]

That’s not even close to true.

You think it's less?

 

[shield]

He always plays well with Martial and Rashford. These three have matching wavelengths. But he will have to make way for Mkhi who is the bigger name but is having a terrible time lately.

 

[Siorac]

He always plays well with Martial and Rashford. These three have matching wavelengths. But he will have to make way for Mkhi who is the bigger name but is having a terrible time lately.

Didn't play well with either of those two on Saturday.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You think it's less?

Of course not. He’s made 58 appearances in the last 3 seasons and been decent or better in at least half of them.

 

[Raoul]

Yeah, well, we're on a discussion forum. If we can't debate things we have no influence over, we might as well close the whole thing down.

No one said we couldn't. Its just important to contextualize opinions into what they are - 3rd party opinions among people outside the club. Ultimately, the opinions that truly count are those of Woodward and Mourinho, and they are behind Jesse. I wonder why.

 

[Yagami]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't mind us going on the counter against Spurs with an attacking four of Lingard, Rashford, Martial and Lukaku. Especially as Mata and Mkhi aren't in the best of form. There's no chance of it happening, though.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Because he's not very good and many of us think our squad players should be of a higher quality.

I'm also a nice guy and have an affinity towards the club so that in itself is not very valuable.

You may be a nice guy, but crucially you don't play for United or haven't scored important goals in cup finals. The nice guy and having an affinity towards the fans was just part of the reasons why i defended his inclusion in this squad. He's also a very accomplished footballer and most definitely good enough for a squad roll at this club.

 

[Siorac]

No one said we couldn't. Its just important to contextualize opinions into what they are - 3rd party opinions among people outside the club. Ultimately, the opinions that truly count are those of Woodward and Mourinho, and they are behind Jesse. I wonder why.

But again, this is so pointless. Of course their opinions matter the most. We're all aware that they are in charge and our opinions are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. There's literally no point in saying it because it's obvious.

(It's also not a very good argument, btw; Mourinho and Woodward are humans who make mistakes. It was Mourinho who preferred Oscar to De Bruyne, for example).

 

[MThomas]

At least we know that Mkhitaryan is a good player who is capable of good things. Lingard is... well, he's Lingard. His ceiling is a good solid 6/10.

And ?

 

[Siorac]

And ?

I'd rather have the significantly better player play against a quality team. It's really quite simple. Mkhitaryan or Mata is far more likely to have a significant influence on a game like this so they should play.

 

[MThomas]

I'd rather have the significantly better player play against a quality team. It's really quite simple. Mkhitaryan or Mata is far more likely to have a significant influence on a game like this so they should play.

Considering how Mkhi has been playing for some time now, i'd say it's highly unlikely that he'll transform that into a key performance against Tottenham.

 

[Raoul]

But again, this is so pointless. Of course their opinions matter the most. We're all aware that they are in charge and our opinions are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. There's literally no point in saying it because it's obvious.

(It's also not a very good argument, btw; Mourinho and Woodward are humans who make mistakes. It was Mourinho who preferred Oscar to De Bruyne, for example).

I agree that its pointless to make a living off an opinion that the manager and board clearly don't share with you. At that point it just becomes circular negativity that accomplishes nothing. Lingard is here to stay and is contributing to the cause, so I don't really see anything fruitful that can come of undercutting him.

 

[MThomas]

Look, you start arguments and bring things into the debate that i didn't say, but I don't want to leave things unsaid. Fair play to Lingard for last night. I would have credited him as he helped this team win.

If you check this thread you will find my first post after the match with Huddersfield, and see what I had to say about him and starting. I didn’t blame him solely for the loss , it was a collective feck up. So don't try to deflect from the original argument.

With regards to Mkhitaryan as I saidm I don't rate him as highly as some and even started a thread back when I was in the newbies, referring to how much United fans overrate him, as he is not in the same class compared to some of our rival players in the same positions. But if I have to choose for our current team going in a difficult game as the one on Saturday while we struggle to score goals and create, I'd choose even an off form Mkhitaryan over Lingard. Let me put it this way, if we had a consistent LW (not young players like Rashford and Martial) and number 10 starting for us, maybe I would go with Lingard. But when our team is as it is, we must give ourselves the biggest chance to score. And that is by playing our best players.

Regarding if he is good enough to be a squad player, maybe we have different expectations from squad players. Fellaini is a good squad player, so is Blind, they offer something different and are much better players in their respective positions . Lingard offers nothing a 19year old talented winger from the second team can't provide.

I think people underestimate Lingard, not sure why. Strange that his performance in our win against Chelsea last season wasn't enough to convince people that he's good enough to stay at the club.

It's fine that you prefer an off form Mkhi, people will always have different preferences. For me, Mkhi's bottom level (which he's currently at) is so dire that i don't think it's the best of ideas to put him in an attacking role against Tottenham. For me, stick Lingard in central to put pressure on Christian and Alli.

 

[shield]

Didn't play well with either of those two on Saturday.

Think we never had all three of Martial, Rashford and Lingard on the pitch, at the same time on Saturday. I was talking about the formation played yesterday, similar to what we did towards the end of the LVG reign. It atleast allows us to have Martial and Rashford on the pitch at the same time, and Lingard actually be an improvement over Mkhi, who has been just short of diabolical off late.

 

[K2K]

Lingard has played well in about 5 appearances in 3 year this is not changing soon.

And that's my cue to stop taking this conversation seriously.

 

[haram]

Lingard has played well in about 5 appearances in 3 year this is not changing soon.

Complete bullshit, trash post.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Funny how every time he scores a goal in a league cup game there will be a handful of people running here to tell us all what an amazing squad player he is. Sorry but any attacking player for Manchester United, squad player or otherwise, needs to contribute in the league and CL. He scores feck all in the league, and as far as the CL goes he's a non entity.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Funny how every time he scores a goal in a league cup game there will be a handful of people running here to tell us all what an amazing squad player he is. Sorry but any attacking player for Manchester United, squad player or otherwise, needs to contribute in the league and CL. He scores feck all in the league, and as far as the CL goes he's a non entity.

Sure but it's his goals giving United some of the trophies (I know it's not a lot), but if you look at Tottenham, they honestly won feck all with their overrated bottlers.

Lingardinho will always be an underdog with more trophies than 90% of Premier League players. Football is cruel, ironic and funny that way.

 

[Raoul]

I think he's good for about 10 or so goals in all comps which is a decent contribution for a squad player. He's just now coming into his prime career years so this would be a good time to meet that number.

 

[Kostov]

Of course not. He’s made 58 appearances in the last 3 seasons and been decent or better in at least half of them.

He has 5 goals and 5 assist in 58 appearances, that is a pathetic stat. And I don't even like using stats, all you need to do is watch him play for a full 90 minutes, his limitations are obvious.

He is playing a crucial role in a Manchester United's attack, not defense or midfield where hard work and commitment can make you a much more useful squad player. I really struggle to think of a less talented attacker that we've had in a long time.

 

[Dante]

You think it's less?

Hehe

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He has 5 goals and 5 assist in 58 appearances, that is a pathetic stat. And I don't even like using stats, all you need to do is watch him play for a full 90 minutes, his limitations are obvious.

He is playing a crucial role in a Manchester United's attack, not defense or midfield where hard work and commitment can make you a much more useful squad player. I really struggle to think of a less talented attacker that we've had in a long time.

Are you familiar with Iniesta’s stats?

(cue inevitable outrage at mentioning him in the same breath as Jesse)

 

[Kostov]

I think people underestimate Lingard, not sure why. Strange that his performance in our win against Chelsea last season wasn't enough to convince people that he's good enough to stay at the club.

It's fine that you prefer an off form Mkhi, people will always have different preferences. For me, Mkhi's bottom level (which he's currently at) is so dire that i don't think it's the best of ideas to put him in an attacking role against Tottenham. For me, stick Lingard in central to put pressure on Christian and Alli.

Maybe because those performances are very rare and between? And I'm not advocating to sell him, as of this moment he can obviously be useful for Mourinho and besides our much more talented attackers. But long term he shouldn't be here even as a squad option, as we need better attackers even on the bench.

The thing that is funny about your comments about Mkhitaryan and Lingard is that you repeatedly mentioned Mkhitaryan's dreadful form, and talk like Lingard is having some stormer of a season. Lingard just scored 2 goals against Swansea in a cup tie, they barely threatened our goal until 93rd minute, he was just as dreadful as Mkhitaryan at the weekend.

 

[Kostov]

Are you familiar with Iniesta’s stats?

(cue inevitable outrage at mentioning him in the same breath as Jesse)

Well mentioning Iniesta in a sentence about Jesse Lingard is funny enough but for instance Iniesta has for a long time played a much deeper role in a midfield three. They do not even play the same position and the talent compared is like when you compare a Ferrari and a Ford Escort.

I get your point, stats are not the whole story, the same should be said about Mkhitaryan's season so far, but you mentioned he was good in half of those 58 appearances. I'd say more like in 10 of those, at best.

 

[MThomas]

Maybe because those performances are very rare and between? And I'm not advocating to sell him, as of this moment he can obviously be useful for Mourinho and besides our much more talented attackers. But long term he shouldn't be here even as a squad option, as we need better attackers even on the bench.

Mkhi ?

The thing that is funny about your comments about Mkhitaryan and Lingard is that you repeatedly mentioned Mkhitaryan's dreadful form, and talk like Lingard is having some stormer of a season. Lingard just scored 2 goals against Swansea in a cup tie, they barely threatened our goal until 93rd minute, he was just as dreadful as Mkhitaryan at the weekend.

I'm not sure where i've claimed that Lingard is having some stormer of a season, feel free to quote me though in case my memory has gone to shits.

 

[Kostov]

Mkhi ?

If you read the whole paragraph it is clear I'm talking about Lingard. You either are trying to be cheeky or not interested enough about a healthy debate.

I'm not sure where i've claimed that Lingard is having some stormer of a season, feel free to quote me though in case my memory has gone to shits.

You didn't say he had a stormer, what I meant is you are talking like Lingard is having a better season and Mkhitaryan is dire as you mentioned the Armenian's poor form couple of times and nothing on Lingard's pathetic performances. In reality they were both dreadful against Huddersfield. Nonetheless it was pretty clear what i meant, so as I said you are probably trying to be cheeky and can't maintain a debate, which means I should leave it here and not waste my time.

 

[stevoc]

I think he's good for about 10 or so goals in all comps which is a decent contribution for a squad player. He's just now coming into his prime career years so this would be a good time to meet that number.

10 goals would be a decent contribution from a first team midfielder. I hope he does score 10 goals but it's a very optimistic estimate, the last two years he has scored 5-6 from 25-30 starts. I imagine if everything goes well with other attacking players this season he will get even less starts than that.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Didn’t Lingard score in the FA Cup Final, Charity Shield and the League Cup Final? Must have been the only three decent games he’s played for us, along with yesterday.

For goodness sake, why are people criticising a local lad who has proved he can make a contribution when called upon.

 

[Daniel Dollin]

Think we never had all three of Martial, Rashford and Lingard on the pitch, at the same time on Saturday. I was talking about the formation played yesterday, similar to what we did towards the end of the LVG reign. It atleast allows us to have Martial and Rashford on the pitch at the same time, and Lingard actually be an improvement over Mkhi, who has been just short of diabolical off late.

I’d agree. I like seeing Lingard play alongside Martial and Rashford. I don’t think Mou will throw both the latter in on Saturday though. He’ll probably start with Rashford.

 

[MThomas]

If you read the whole paragraph it is clear I'm talking about Lingard. You either are trying to be cheeky or not interested enough about a healthy debate.

I'm being cheeky, since it's a bit funny that what you are saying about Lingard also goes for Mkhi, but it's only portrayed as negative for Lingard.

You didn't say he had a stormer, what I meant is you are talking like Lingard is having a better season and Mkhitaryan is dire as you mentioned the Armenian's poor form couple of times and nothing on Lingard's pathetic performances. In reality they were both dreadful against Huddersfield. Nonetheless it was pretty clear what i meant, so as I said you are probably trying to be cheeky and can't maintain a debate, which means I should leave it here and not waste my time.

Mkhi's top level is higher than Lingards, no doubt. My problem is that his bottom level is much lower, and at the moment I reckon what we've been getting from Mkhi is his bottom level. So, at the moment, I'd rather play a Lingard with a lower top level than a Mkhi performing at his worst. I think it's weird that some are so happy to discard Mkhis performances the past month, only to harp on about Lingard being shit in a match against Huddersfield.

Ideally, we'd all want a Mkhi at the top of his game playing against Spurs.

 

[Siorac]

Think we never had all three of Martial, Rashford and Lingard on the pitch, at the same time on Saturday. I was talking about the formation played yesterday, similar to what we did towards the end of the LVG reign. It atleast allows us to have Martial and Rashford on the pitch at the same time, and Lingard actually be an improvement over Mkhi, who has been just short of diabolical off late.

I don't think that's going to happen against Spurs. It didn't even happen at Huddersfield when 2-0 down so I can't see Mourinho going for it.

And yeah, Mkhi has been awful lately. I don't think Lingard's likely to be worse than what he's shown, he's just unlikely to be much better either. It's a bit of a shit situation overall.

 

[lsd]

lingard is a more than decent player with excellent movement good desire and the ability to link up play .

Add the fact he is a goal threat and can score from anywhere at any time in any game and has done so more than one

Is he a superstar in the making ? No but he doesn't need to be to be a very important player for us

Better judges of players than us rate him highly enough to start him time and time again and he fully deserves his place in the united team .

Especially so in present time given the poor form shown by the likes of Mata ,Mhki and Herrera .

Lingard can win a game from nothing and we need that now more than ever he doesnt deserve anywhere near the hate he is shown much like Fellaini to be honest

 

[J-Stander]

lingard is a more than decent player with excellent movement good desire and the ability to link up play .

Add the fact he is a goal threat and can score from anywhere at any time in any game and has done so more than one

Is he a superstar in the making ? No but he doesn't need to be to be a very important player for us

Better judges of players than us rate him highly enough to start him time and time again and he fully deserves his place in the united team .

Especially so in present time given the poor form shown by the likes of Mata ,Mhki and Herrera .

Lingard can win a game from nothing and we need that now more than ever he doesnt deserve anywhere near the hate he is shown much like Fellaini to be honest

Goal threat? Can score anywhere, any time? He scored one league goal last season. He could've had about 10 if he finished like he did yesterday.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Didn’t Lingard score in the FA Cup Final, Charity Shield and the League Cup Final? Must have been the only three decent games he’s played for us, along with yesterday.

For goodness sake, why are people criticising a local lad who has proved he can make a contribution when called upon.

He was called upon last Saturday and was terrible. Aside from cup games he is generally poor in the league. So I think your theory is pretty much wrong.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Didn’t Lingard score in the FA Cup Final, Charity Shield and the League Cup Final? Must have been the only three decent games he’s played for us, along with yesterday.

For goodness sake, why are people criticising a local lad who has proved he can make a contribution when called upon.

He's been called upon dozens of times in the league and he constantly looks awful. Imagine a squad player like Solskjaer or Butt only turning up in the league cup and charity shield. We'd have never won the treble. Excusing his shit performances in the league because he's scored a few cup goals doesn't wash with some of us. We expect more.

 

[Lawman]

He has 5 goals and 5 assist in 58 appearances, that is a pathetic stat. And I don't even like using stats, all you need to do is watch him play for a full 90 minutes, his limitations are obvious.

He is playing a crucial role in a Manchester United's attack, not defense or midfield where hard work and commitment can make you a much more useful squad player. I really struggle to think of a less talented attacker that we've had in a long time.

Spot on. We are severely limited with Lingard in the team. He’s a non goal scoring or assisting forward! The two best attributes needed amin being an attacker for United are his poorest qualities.

 

[roonster09]

He has 5 goals and 5 assist in 58 appearances, that is a pathetic stat. And I don't even like using stats, all you need to do is watch him play for a full 90 minutes, his limitations are obvious.

He is playing a crucial role in a Manchester United's attack, not defense or midfield where hard work and commitment can make you a much more useful squad player. I really struggle to think of a less talented attacker that we've had in a long time.

In his career (PL, CL, Europa, FA cup, League cup) he averages goal or assist every 232 mins, that's 2.5 games for goal or assist, not a bad stat for a back up player.

 

[RobinHood]

In his career (PL, CL, Europa, FA cup, League cup) he averages goal or assist every 232 mins, that's 2.5 games for goal or assist, not a bad stat for a back up player.

Agree.

Not as useful a squad player like an O'Shea (who could play many different positions). But still a good option and I'm still a romantic in the sense that it's nice to have an academy lad in the squad.. However limited he may be.

 

[stevoc]

I'm being cheeky, since it's a bit funny that what you are saying about Lingard also goes for Mkhi, but it's only portrayed as negative for Lingard.




Mkhi's top level is higher than Lingards, no doubt. My problem is that his bottom level is much lower, and at the moment I reckon what we've been getting from Mkhi is his bottom level. So, at the moment, I'd rather play a Lingard with a lower top level than a Mkhi performing at his worst. I think it's weird that some are so happy to discard Mkhis performances the past month, only to harp on about Lingard being shit in a match against Huddersfield.

Ideally, we'd all want a Mkhi at the top of his game playing against Spurs.

Cant say i agree with that i've seen Lingard have absolute stinkers right down there with anything we've seen from Mkhityaryan.

And arguably more of them as well.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Cant say i agree with that i've seen Lingard have absolute stinkers right down there with anything we've seen from Mkhityaryan.

And arguably more of them as well.

Lingard would never win Bundesliga player of the year in any lifetime. Mkhi has been absolute rubbish lately but i'd rather have an off form Mkhi than Lingard in the league as even when Mkhi plays poor he generally has 1 or 2 moments of magic whereas in majority of Lingard's Premier League games he contributes nothing aside from his famous runs.