Jean-Clair Todibo | signs for West Ham on loan with option to buy

Adnan said:
Potentially he looks like the most rounded CB that we can sign. But I think as he's so young, he'd probably be best advised to stay at SCP for one more season.

And if Aston Villa's interest in Todibo is genuine then it shows how far he's come because the likes of Monchi and Emery are quite intent on creating a team with a identity. And as far as Monchi is concerned, he's very good at his job with a team below him who have a history of identifying talented players.

For us it's not about replacing any player but rather it's about creating a team that can then be moulded into playing a proactive attacking playing style.
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I feel like if Diomande can be bought for a reasonable price then it's worth exploring that deal this season rather than wait another season. Probably a moot point anyways as there has been no reports so far that he's up for sale and if Sporting will accept anything less than his release clause.

As for Aston Villa, l agree they are making some serious progress. Getting in Todibo and Maatsen this season also alludes to that. They are building a very good and technical team.
 
saik said:
I feel like if Diomande can be bought for a reasonable price then it's worth exploring that deal this season rather than wait another season. Probably a moot point anyways as there has been no reports so far that he's up for sale and if Sporting will accept anything less than his release clause.

As for Aston Villa, l agree they are making some serious progress. Getting in Todibo and Maatsen this season also alludes to that. They are building a very good and technical team.
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Ideally for me if we could sign Diomande along with Branthwaite, then would be fantastic. But as Diomande is still very young it might be best for him to develop at SCP for another without the media glare in England.

Aston Villa have got themselves into the Champions league and have a experienced DoF who knows the European market well and they're now targeting players as a champions league club backed up by wealthy owners. But I wouldn't trust a report from foot mercato as they're generally not reliable.
 
Adnan said:
There's always a plan B mate. @golden_blunder

What is clear from Romano's information is that we definitely wanted to sign Todibo. But again if we can't sign Todibo, then there's other players who we can also target at CB imo, and I'm hoping we sign two CBs.

I think the RCB market is quite vast with a number of very interesting options. And I think if Todibo is no longer a possibility for us then moving on to someone like Odilon Kossounou would be the correct next step imo. Kossounou is also someone that is comfortable playing the hybrid RCB/RB role which I believe is a big weapon to have in your team as far as exerting control on the game.

Kossounou recently turned 23, and is a physically and athletically gifted player with the ability to break lines at a very high level both with the pass and his carrying ability. People will point to his lack of numbers in aerial duels but having looked at Tapsoba and Tah's aerial stats, they also haven't done well in aerial duels which is quite surprising. But Leverkusen had the best defensive record in the league whilst going unbeaten throughout. The pace and power of that backline along with their technical qualities on the ball made a big difference to that Leverkusen team as whole.

If we can sign Branthwaite along with someone like Kossounou, it would be the way forward.
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Jonathan Tah is very good in the air and his numbers do reflect it (70% success rate in duels is exceptional). I think a big part of Leverkusen's excellent defensive record was also how well they kept the ball - something we'll struggle to do to the same extreme in the Premier League.

I would have thought Tah would be the one to try and get off Leverkusen, but if you were intent on having someone who could offer the RCB/RB option, he doesn't fit that role at all.
 
didz said:
Jonathan Tah is very good in the air and his numbers do reflect it (70% success rate in duels is exceptional). I think a big part of Leverkusen's excellent defensive record was also how well they kept the ball - something we'll struggle to do to the same extreme in the Premier League.

I would have thought Tah would be the one to try and get off Leverkusen, but if you were intent on having someone who could offer the RCB/RB option, he doesn't fit that role at all.
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Isn't he close to joining Bayern?
 
pocco said:
Only just catching up on this now, but should we be worried that we were at advanced stages of talks before we realised we're not allowed to sign him?
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No, because the club only qualified for Europa after winning the FA cup. INEOS have been in discussions with UEFA about how both United and Nice would compete in the same competition since they started their bid to buy part of the club. UEFA have started to be a lot firmer on multi club owners and introduced a bunch of new rules last year.
 
didz said:
Jonathan Tah is very good in the air and his numbers do reflect it (70% success rate in duels is exceptional). I think a big part of Leverkusen's excellent defensive record was also how well they kept the ball - something we'll struggle to do to the same extreme in the Premier League.

I would have thought Tah would be the one to try and get off Leverkusen, but if you were intent on having someone who could offer the RCB/RB option, he doesn't fit that role at all.
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It depends on where you take your data from but I agree that Tah is strong aerially and has always been someone that is aerially strong. But he's someone that I spoke about years ago and he was a big prospect as a youngster. But it seems he went through a tough time for several years and that early potential looked as if it may never come to fruition. But it was good to see him play a pivotal role in Leverkusen's success last season and now he's wanted by Bayern. But I think his signing only makes sense instead of Branthwaite, and Branthwaite being 7 years younger would be the more logical choice for me right now. I think the RCB signing should be someone who kills two birds with one stone by being a option at both RCB and RB and Kossounou is definitely someone who could be that player imo.

The quoted post of mine is from June 2019. It's from the Harry Maguire thread and I rated Jonathan Tah highly as a youngster. But having said that, Tah didn't live up to his potential until in the season just gone by where he was superb.


"He would be our best CB (Maguire) I have no doubt in my mind. The only issue I see with this signing is that his lack of pace will be a bigger factor especially when paired with Lindelof. It would restrict us from playing a high line or it will make us vulnerable to the speedsters in the league."

"Personally I just wish we'd go to Leverkusen and see if we can sign Jonathan Tah who looks the best fit to me. Tah looks the closest CB in terms of having a VVD effect I've seen in Europe."

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/harry-maguire-signed.447781/page-29#post-24295126
 
Chelsea can find loopholes after loopholes in every rule and our lot can’t sort out one damn thing.
 
Just seen this sh!t@. On one hand we have the likes of City and Savio, Red Bull and Sesko of course we get caught out. On the other hand it is making INEOS look a bit amateurish for not being ahead of this and having the streetsense not to be able to bend the rules to get around it.
 
Just our luck that winning the FA Cup has fecked our chances of signing him. The comedy writes itself really.

Villa are getting a really good player.
 
kaku06 said:
Chelsea can find loopholes after loopholes in every rule and our lot can’t sort out one damn thing.
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Call it personal preference if you want, but I don't think our owners should aspire to be like their Chelsea counterparts.
 
Adebisi's Hat said:
Just seen this sh!t@. On one hand we have the likes of City and Savio, Red Bull and Sesko of course we get caught out. On the other hand it is making INEOS look a bit amateurish for not being ahead of this and having the streetsense not to be able to bend the rules to get around it.
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They are definitely amateurs. We can only hope this all changes when Berrada becomes the CEO, assuming this lot takes a back seat and lets him run the club
 
Infestissumam said:
that's been the rumour for a while, but new reports suggest Bayern and Leverkusen are still far apart regarding a fee. Still expect it to happen when all is said and done.
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Yea and like the other poster said, probably not the age profile we should be targeting anyways. If Bayern gets him then that's surely the end for De Ligt there. As is the norm with the media, De Ligt to us will pick up pace if that happens.
 
saik said:
Yea and like the other poster said, probably not the age profile we should be targeting anyways. If Bayern gets him then that's surely the end for De Ligt there. As is the norm with the media, De Ligt to us will pick up pace if that happens.
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I'm surprised it hasn't really happened yet. It's pretty clear they are going to try to sell him, as he's easier to shift than Upamecano/Kim and should still fetch a decent fee. Given that he's worked under ten Hag before, the rumours really write themselves.
 
Why can't we sign him? Surely as long as fair market value is paid there shouldn't be an issue?

When City are doing this, nobody is bothered that they are signing players from within their own company basically but because they are paying below market prices and basically outside the open market.

All UEFA, FIFA or anyone else has to do is calculate a fair value and if that's met, what's the issue? Plus, Ineos are only minority owners at United and the Glazers have zero stake in Nice.
 
I wonder at what percent of the ownership these 'rules' kick in. If INEOS owned 1% of the club would it still be the same?
 
Infestissumam said:
I'm surprised it hasn't really happened yet. It's pretty clear they are going to try to sell him, as he's easier to shift than Upamecano/Kim and should still fetch a decent fee. Given that he's worked under ten Hag before, the rumours really write themselves.
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I think for now our priority is Branthwaite for CB reinforcements so most of the media probably will focus more on that deal to get early scoops.
 
saik said:
I feel like if Diomande can be bought for a reasonable price then it's worth exploring that deal this season rather than wait another season. Probably a moot point anyways as there has been no reports so far that he's up for sale and if Sporting will accept anything less than his release clause.

As for Aston Villa, l agree they are making some serious progress. Getting in Todibo and Maatsen this season also alludes to that. They are building a very good and technical team.
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To be honest they are doing the exact kind of transfers I want to see us doing under INEOS. Their starting 11 is arguably already as strong as ours. Watkins, one of Diaby/Bailey, D.Luiz, Maatsen, one of Todibo/D.Carlos/P.Torres, E.Martinez and maybe even Kamara would all start for us imo.
 
pocco said:
Only just catching up on this now, but should we be worried that we were at advanced stages of talks before we realised we're not allowed to sign him?
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It sounds like we were close before the INEOS deal was finalized tbf
 
It's a shame it's off in a regulatory sense. As others have said, isn't market value fair game? What if another club agrees a fee with Nice, can United then not match said bid?

That being said, he's not the tallest, and we need height next to Martinez. He'd be a great 2nd/3rd centre back to have, as long as we also bought another RCB.
 
It's the right rule, just after seeing so many other teams benefit from this it's a bit in infuriating that we're finally in a position to take advantage and we can't.
 
Crimson King said:
No, because the club only qualified for Europa after winning the FA cup. INEOS have been in discussions with UEFA about how both United and Nice would compete in the same competition since they started their bid to buy part of the club. UEFA have started to be a lot firmer on multi club owners and introduced a bunch of new rules last year.
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So these rules were released last year, but we weren't aware of them?
 
Means we can't get Thuram either, also incredibly frustrating. Mad that Ineos didn't plan for this and try to find a loophole.
 
pocco said:
So this has been dead in the water since around the beginning of the year then, presumably. And if not, then it seems we're still pursuing ETHs targets.
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This only happened after the FA Cup, right after we qualified for Europa League by winning it. If we were in Champions League, I believe there would've not been an issue for him to transfer to us, seeing how the issue at hand is the fact that both Nice and United are in the same competition.
 
El Jefe said:
This isn’t a discussion of Villa or Manchester United. There are a bunch of clubs better than both so if Villa and United is the height of the clubs he’s linked with then he’s clearly not that good.


Villa have made excellent signings for their level and the height of that level is what they finished at last season which is 4th.

We aren’t trying to be the next Villa. Plus we’ve seen Newcastle and Leicester in recent years finish top 4 and not repeat it the next season.
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So you are saying we shouldn't sign any players from Villa or Newcastle then because by your definition the players there were only linked to clubs of that height.

Quite clearly they are clubs who scout very well and so tend to sign very good players irrespective of the players current global reputation. Maybe you should stop judging potential signings by their global reputation because its not been a tactic that has worked at United for over 10 years.

The point I was making previously was signing Kamara on a free was quite obviously a better signing than Casemiro despite who they players were linked with. And who a player is linked with is not a direct correlation with the quality of the signing other wise you would not get Dortmund, Leipzeg Villa Brighton etc type performance in transfers.
 
Adnan said:
It depends on where you take your data from but I agree that Tah is strong aerially and has always been someone that is aerially strong. But he's someone that I spoke about years ago and he was a big prospect as a youngster. But it seems he went through a tough time for several years and that early potential looked as if it may never come to fruition. But it was good to see him play a pivotal role in Leverkusen's success last season and now he's wanted by Bayern. But I think his signing only makes sense instead of Branthwaite, and Branthwaite being 7 years younger would be the more logical choice for me right now. I think the RCB signing should be someone who kills two birds with one stone by being a option at both RCB and RB and Kossounou is definitely someone who could be that player imo.

The quoted post of mine is from June 2019. It's from the Harry Maguire thread and I rated Jonathan Tah highly as a youngster. But having said that, Tah didn't live up to his potential until in the season just gone by where he was superb.


"He would be our best CB (Maguire) I have no doubt in my mind. The only issue I see with this signing is that his lack of pace will be a bigger factor especially when paired with Lindelof. It would restrict us from playing a high line or it will make us vulnerable to the speedsters in the league."

"Personally I just wish we'd go to Leverkusen and see if we can sign Jonathan Tah who looks the best fit to me. Tah looks the closest CB in terms of having a VVD effect I've seen in Europe."

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/harry-maguire-signed.447781/page-29#post-24295126
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Yeah, Tah's age is outside of the bracket we're supposed to be shopping in so I wouldn't really expect him to have ever been someone we were seriously considering for this summer.

Can't say I've paid much attention to Kossounou, but the post you quoted from all the way back in 2019 has me wondering if we aren't really still looking for that 'VVD effect' defender even now. Versatile defenders are great, but the teams who operate well with FB/CB split-role players still always seem to have that one absolute unit of a centre half who anchors the rest defence, be it VVD, Dias, Tah, or Saliba. That profile doesn't exist in our squad at present, and I wonder if that might be a more pressing concern than the lack of a hybrid role defender on the right. Unless of course you're banking on us signing Branthwaite and hoping he quickly becomes that player.
 
pocco said:
So these rules were released last year, but we weren't aware of them?
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Of course they were, they already own football clubs. All these teams and their owners are obviously trying to find loopholes and ways around them.

We didn't actually bid for Todibo. Probably because they knew it might be an issue. If we'd lost the FA cup final we might well have signed him by now.

Honestly, any reason to moan with some of you lot.
 
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