Jean-Clair Todibo | signs for West Ham on loan with option to buy

[Ikon]

I'd be absolutely all in for this fella, he really looks to be top class, and with the Nice/INEOS connection surely we can do a quick and clever deal..?
Perhaps included a PX such as Pellistri or Hannibal...

 

[aeh1991]

Has to be at least 100m alone there in CB signings though, with what, maybe 40 coming back from Lindelof and Maguire? I think we'd be wise to shop the free / loan market for one CB at least, with a definite starter signed at RCB alongside (Todibo makes sense).

Yes. With Todibo and Tosin, alongside a cheap LCB we could use the money much wiser than on one Brantwaithe. LCBs like Lucumi, Hancko, Medina, Pacho, Boscagli or Buongiorno would surely be available for 20m? Or if we lack the money just get Mario Hermoso for free. Also, instead of Tosin I would prefer to get Anselmino. And lastly, loan Kambwala to Nice to give him regular playing time.

 

[JE-365]

Has to be at least 100m alone there in CB signings though, with what, maybe 40 coming back from Lindelof and Maguire? I think we'd be wise to shop the free / loan market for one CB at least, with a definite starter signed at RCB alongside (Todibo makes sense).

It depends. We might be able to get both for cheaper than 100m or reasonable price if Everton need to sell some player for fund to avoid breaking the regulation and points deduction before 30th June, while Nice is owned by INEOS.

 

[davidmichael]

Would be a very sensible Varane replacement.

The only similarities are they’re both French and quick, the more I watch of Todibo the more I think he’d be a good squad player rather than an upgrade or starter.

Get him in asap!

Martinez, Todibo looks like a well balanced pair to me.

We’d be murdered aerially with that pairing at the back then you factor in either of Dalot or AWB and Shaw the first thing a lot of teams would do against us is to target getting set pieces in attacking areas, if the price is similar I’d go with Yoro over Todibo or look at Silva at Benfica and Diomande at Sporting.

 

[aeh1991]

The only similarities are they’re both French and quick, the more I watch of Todibo the more I think he’d be a good squad player rather than an upgrade or starter.



We’d be murdered aerially with that pairing at the back then you factor in either of Dalot or AWB and Shaw the first thing a lot of teams would do against us is to target getting set pieces in attacking areas, if the price is similar I’d go with Yoro over Todibo or look at Silva at Benfica and Diomande at Sporting.

He brings a lot of qualities on the ball and in defense to compensate his lack of aerial power. Although as a whole, I agree we might become more vulnerable from set pieces and long balls. If we don't sell Maguire or get Tosin, one of them would need to play against team that target us with set pieces. But you can't deny that getting a player of his qualities for 35m is a rare chance. Diomande or Silva would cost at least double of what he would.

 

[Kingslayer18]

Yes. With Todibo and Tosin, alongside a cheap LCB we could use the money much wiser than on one Brantwaithe. LCBs like Lucumi, Hancko, Medina, Pacho, Boscagli or Buongiorno would surely be available for 20m? Or if we lack the money just get Mario Hermoso for free. Also, instead of Tosin I would prefer to get Anselmino. And lastly, loan Kambwala to Nice to give him regular playing time.

I don't see a scenario where Ineos get 2 RCBs that are unproven in the EPL. I think getting Todibo and Anselmino is a big risk given adaptation issues. More sensible is Todibo and Tosin, in that you know Tosin can handle the physicality of the EPL and step in whenever needed. Rather get Anselmino as a long term punt and loan him to Nice for a year or two to ease his adaptation to Europe. I think we should still loan out Kambwala as well, either in the Championship or league. He needs gametime that he wouldn't get with us as a 5th choice CB. Then we keep Lindelof for a year, sell Maguire (his wages are higher than Lindelof and he will still have a market in the league).

Agree with you on LCB backup, Lucumi would be my first choice and I would also look at Mikhail Faye at Barca. Highly regarded and on verge on breaking out. He's also played both LCB and LB for them and Ineos know all about him since Nice bid for him in the January window. It will be opportunistic, as Barca apparently view him as unsellable and planned on drafting him into the first team squad in the new season but a offer of 25-30m might be too tempting for them given their finance issues.

 

[The-Mezzala]

If we can sell Maguire and Lindelof, replace them with Todibo and Branthwaite, it’ll be massive upgrade in the defense. Both of them have great injury record. This season, Branthwaite has 0 days missing from injury, while Todibo only injured for 7 days.

Martinez
Todibo
Branthwaite
Kambwala and Evans

That would be very good. I rate Branthwaite but Everton will pull our pants down on a fee and we also badly need two midfielders and a Striker. A cheaper option would be Inacio. But Todibo is my number 1 choice for RCB.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Should be the first signing of the INEOS United era.

 

[DontBeMeanToBeRuud]

Bit worried about signing this guy.

Only watched youtube videos but seems like his hype is predominantly down to his ball playing ability quite similair to Onana's GK long balls rather than actual defending skills.

Yoro looks much better at a much younger age. 6 years younger if im correct. Seems like an actual defender but with some ball playing ability.

 

[tidraKS]

I just hope the scout team have done their work. If he's had a great season and is ready to transfer to the biggest club in England, why hasn't he been called for Euro 2024? I understand that there is a lot of competition in France's team, they have good defenders, but Dayot Upamecano has been called, and he had a terrible season.

 

[SambaBoy]

I don't think we can actually bring him to the club.

Villa and Vitoria were under the same umbrella and playing in the Conference League and they were banned from any players moving between the two clubs for a year - same with Brighton and USG. Both us and Nice are in the EL next season now - so if we satisfy the rules in terms of being able to compete in the same competitions, it's likely we will be banned from signing any Nice players and vice versa for a year.

 

[mikeyt]

Not sure how much this guy would cost but bringing him in with Tosin would be smart and allow us to move on Lindelof as well as Varane's release. I have a feeling we'd still need a starter though to partner Martinez long term so selling Maguire and bringing in a first choice CB would be required. Not sure we'd be able to do all that in one window with the other glaring needs we have but one can dream.

 

[flappyjay]

I don't think we can actually bring him to the club.

Villa and Vitoria were under the same umbrella and playing in the Conference League and they were banned from any players moving between the two clubs for a year - same with Brighton and USG. Both us and Nice are in the EL next season now - so if we satisfy the rules in terms of being able to compete in the same competitions, it's likely we will be banned from signing any Nice players and vice versa for a year.

This is a disappointing development

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I don't think we can actually bring him to the club.

Villa and Vitoria were under the same umbrella and playing in the Conference League and they were banned from any players moving between the two clubs for a year - same with Brighton and USG. Both us and Nice are in the EL next season now - so if we satisfy the rules in terms of being able to compete in the same competitions, it's likely we will be banned from signing any Nice players and vice versa for a year.

RB clubs do it regularly and City loan their players to Granada and will probably sell to them soon, money & relationships talk

 

[Bondi77]

I would rather we give Willy a chance than bringing this guy in as Willy looks like he has all the assets to succeed in the Premier League...strong aerially, quick,strong and he just needs game time

 

[GoonerBear]

RB clubs do it regularly and City loan their players to Granada and will probably sell to them soon, money & relationships talk

Think it's more to do with both clubs being in the same UEFA competition that particular season.

 

[davidmichael]

I don’t see what the problem would be with us and Nice or even Lausanne buying/selling/loaning players between them all seeing as Ratcliffe is a minority share holder at United still, none of it matters unless Ratcliffe owns 30% or more of United and it’s currently 27.7% if I recall correctly.

 

[Infra-red]

I don’t see what the problem would be with us and Nice or even Lausanne buying/selling/loaning players between them all seeing as Ratcliffe is a minority share holder at United still, none of it matters unless Ratcliffe owns 30% or more of United and it’s currently 27.7% if I recall correctly.

The issue will not be nominal ownership percentages, but rather who exerts significant influence and control at the two clubs. This was the situation Leipzig and Salzburg had to wrestle with - it resulted in changes at board level to ensure the two clubs legitimately claim to be run independently of one another.

United and Nice will make submissions and an independent panel will rule on the matter. Ineos are reportedly confident that they can prevent United being relegated to the Conference League, so there is probably no cause for concern.

 

[Nori-]

Is this guy actually the best option or are we just signing him because hes half decent and helps INEOS move money between the clubs they own?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Is this guy actually the best option or are we just signing him because hes half decent and helps INEOS move money between the clubs they own?

He would be a good option. Not the best but certainly an improvement.

Diomande would be my choice.

 

[pascell]

Is this guy actually the best option or are we just signing him because hes half decent and helps INEOS move money between the clubs they own?

For the reported price we'd pay, he'd represent value for money. We've tried to sign him on a few different occasions now so the interest from United is definitely there.

 

[Infra-red]

Is this guy actually the best option or are we just signing him because hes half decent and helps INEOS move money between the clubs they own?

Not convinced he's a great fit with Martinez (who probably needs a physical, aerially dominant CB partner - that isn't Todibo). Decent player, though.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

The only similarities are they’re both French and quick, the more I watch of Todibo the more I think he’d be a good squad player rather than an upgrade or starter.



We’d be murdered aerially with that pairing at the back then you factor in either of Dalot or AWB and Shaw the first thing a lot of teams would do against us is to target getting set pieces in attacking areas, if the price is similar I’d go with Yoro over Todibo or look at Silva at Benfica and Diomande at Sporting.

Ahh yes the myth that Martinez is bad in the air because he is short is still going strong.

 

[davidmichael]

Ahh yes the myth that Martinez is bad in the air because he is short is still going strong.

Big difference between saying Martinez is bad in the air because he’s short and that our back line would be murdered in the air with one of AWB and Dalot with a central pairing of Todibo and Martinez then Shaw at left back.

For his size Martinez is good in the air but he’s average at best as far as aerial duels percentages in the league, Varane was the aerially dominant one and Maguire when he played and to pretend otherwise is flat out untrue.

 

[orangeboom999]

Would be a decent shout, but at 24, you have to ask why he isn't a regular in the French squad, let alone the team. Feel like he's going to get overtaken by younger talents.

 

[3KDré]

Would be a decent shout, but at 24, you have to ask why he isn't a regular in the French squad, let alone the team. Feel like he's going to get overtaken by younger talents.

Saliba doesn't even start for them. France's CB position is probably the most stacked in the world.

 

[orangeboom999]

Saliba doesn't even start for them. France's CB position if probably the most stacked in the world.

Granted, and I feel he would offer an upgrade. But will it bridge the gap enough to catch up with the top current teams? That's my only question about him. But you can't guarantee transfers success, can you

 

[Messier1994]

We’d be murdered aerially with that pairing at the back then you factor in either of Dalot or AWB and Shaw the first thing a lot of teams would do against us is to target getting set pieces in attacking areas, if the price is similar I’d go with Yoro over Todibo or look at Silva at Benfica and Diomande at Sporting.

Can I just ask, where did this notion come from? Must have seen 20 games with Nice this season. JCT is 6’3 and strong in the air. Have never seen him have any issues aerially in 20 games.

 

[daba]

Can I just ask, where did this notion come from? Must have seen 20 games with Nice this season. JCT is 6’3 and strong in the air. Have never seen him have any issues aerially in 20 games.

I think JCT has an aerial win rate of 60% compared to someone like Varane who this season had 80% - which is in the 99th percentile and is more of an anomaly considering usually he’s around 70-75% in previous seasons.

I agree with you though, I wouldn’t say it’s a proper weakness, but it doesn’t seem like a particular strength. I also think our biggest areas of concern defensively have been from wide areas and cut backs, which is definitely something Todibo can help with as dealing with large spaces behind and wide areas is a big strength of his.

Also, who is to say we can’t improve that side of his game given he is 6ft whatever. For 35m in our situation he’s a hard yes.

 

[roonster09]

I think JCT has an aerial win rate of 60% compared to someone like Varane who this season had 80% - which is in the 99th percentile and is more of an anomaly considering usually he’s around 70-75% in previous seasons.

I agree with you though, I wouldn’t say it’s a proper weakness, but it doesn’t seem like a particular strength. I also think our biggest areas of concern defensively have been from wide areas and cut backs, which is definitely something Todibo can help with as dealing with large spaces behind and wide areas is a big strength of his.

Also, who is to say we can’t improve that side of his game given he is 6ft whatever. For 35m in our situation he’s a hard yes.

Arsenal CB pair wins 55% and 60% aerial duels.

Aerial duel is bit of a weird stat as it only considers as a duel when attacker also tries to win the header. For example if CB positions himself so good and fights off attacker, attacker doesn't even try. In that case it won't be counted as aerial duel.

Iirc City defenders also had low aerial duel win percentages.

 

[aeh1991]

Arsenal CB pair wins 55% and 60% aerial duels.

Aerial duel is bit of a weird stat as it only considers as a duel when attacker also tries to win the header. For example if CB positions himself so good and fights off attacker, attacker doesn't even try. In that case it won't be counted as aerial duel.

Iirc City defenders also had low aerial duel win percentages.

Thank you for telling this! People need to realize what a bargain it would be to get him for 35m.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Arsenal CB pair wins 55% and 60% aerial duels.

Aerial duel is bit of a weird stat as it only considers as a duel when attacker also tries to win the header. For example if CB positions himself so good and fights off attacker, attacker doesn't even try. In that case it won't be counted as aerial duel.

Iirc City defenders also had low aerial duel win percentages.

Compared to those two, the worrying part is that they are monsters in defensive duels. They very rarely lose a duel whereas Todibo does.
His volume of defensive actions seem better but maybe he’s too agressive and overcommits at times?

 

[andersj]

Compared to those two, the worrying part is that they are monsters in defensive duels. They very rarely lose a duel whereas Todibo does.
His volume of defensive actions seem better but maybe he’s too agressive and overcommits at times?

Well, given the percentage cited, that is obviously not true. But they take more duels. Saliba and Gabriel win close to 4 aerial duels every match. Todibo and Martinez combined approx 1,5.

Still think this is a «fan»-concern. While a team like Arsenal win 13,2 aerials per 90 min, teams like City and Villa win less than 9. EtH used Timber and Martinez as CBs with great success.

 

[roonster09]

Compared to those two, the worrying part is that they are monsters in defensive duels. They very rarely lose a duel whereas Todibo does.
His volume of defensive actions seem better but maybe he’s too agressive and overcommits at times?

I have no idea how he plays, I think @Adnan made some good posts about the player few times.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Well, given the percentage cited, that is obviously not true. But they take more duels. Saliba and Gabriel win close to 4 aerial duels every match. Todibo and Martinez combined approx 1,5.

Still think this is a «fan»-concern. While a team like Arsenal win 13,2 aerials per 90 min, teams like City and Villa win less than 9. EtH used Timber and Martinez as CBs with great success.

No sorry, I was talking about ground challenges where Todibo makes a higher volume of challenges but not of the same quality compared to Saliba and Gabriel who statistically almost never lose a duel.

 

[Messier1994]

Great stuff!

I think the ability to win aerial duels are greatly overrated in open play, but of course significant factor on set pieces. Open play is so fast, I wonder if how tall a CB is really impacts the outcome of an aerial dual in open play more than 5 times per season. Have Martinez lost one costly aerial dual in open play the entire time he has been here? But on set pieces, it can of course be different.

I would also really question the stat to start with. What is an aerial dual, in the context we are talking about? Two players next to each other each with a 50% shot at going for a ball with snow on about to return from orbit? In real life, 95% of the situations in open play looks completely different. Crosses are delivered at such velocity.

 

[Adnan]

I have no idea how he plays, I think @Adnan made some good posts about the player few times.

I've written a number of posts about the player over the years and for a CB who is about 6'4 tall, I think there's still things to unlock in his game. I think we as fans want the perfect player but if you look at the competition, then it's very clear that a number of players bought by the likes of Arsenal and City had deficiencies that they worked around.

I think we must prioritise signing players with a high technical level on the ball or potentially high technical level. And the CBs are crucial to how a team exerts dominance on the ball. And when you have players with the potential technical ability to comfortably play around the press and also have the pace and power to control open spaces against the counter attack, then the coach can mould the players and tweak the system. So having the right tools at your disposal is very important for a coach if the idea is to implement a dominant brand of football with and without the ball.

The quoted post below is from last year and for me I think Todibo potentially could be a very good signing.

I haven't really noticed him being weak aerially. But that could be down to me not really focusing on his aerial game.

But there seems to be a consensus among a group of people that he's weak in the air. And I'm assuming it's likely due to how his aerial game is presented on Fbref. And I'm wandering if it's a case of not knowing the difference between volume and percentage. Because the reason I say that is because if you read the article below (5 months old) it provides stats that show him to be strong aerially.

Front the article linked below: "As for aerial duels, the centre-back contests 2.5 per match with a 71.7% win rate. He has given up two fouls inside the box and averages 0.58 fouls per 90 minutes on the pitch."

https://ligue1analysis.com/jean-cla...23-data-stats-analysis-scout-report/analysis/

But I think personally, I'd rather have a CB who is a little bit weaker in the air but is strong at contesting ground duels and also has the ability under pressure to help progress play. Like the vid below demonstrates, he's very strong in 1v1 situations even against the best attackers in the world but he also provides something a little bit extra in possession. And I think at 23 years of age, he's a low risk signing with potential to grow further with good coaching.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[Bondi77]

21mil????
I would take him at that price but I thought the price was supposed to be more than that.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

This should be the least complicated deal ever to complete if we’re genuinely interested. However, it is United and we’re experts at making the simple seem difficult.