Javier Hernandez | 2013/14 Performances

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Rowem said:
We should keep both Welbeck and Hernandez.

Bye bye Van Persie.
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I'd only agree with that sentiment if RVP makes it obvious he wants to go. In which case, he could sod off. If he wants to stay, I love him deeply.
 
Brwned said:
I'd argue that's because not only has Welbeck played better overall but he's scored at a higher rate. Hernández's record in the league is a goal every 170 minutes compared to Welbeck's goal every 140 minutes. He went 447 minutes without scoring a goal between November and January. He hasn't played very often but for the vast majority of the season, when he did play he was substandard. There's no point in playing him when the team are playing poorly because he offers so little - see the home losses against West Brom or Newcastle. He's started playing well now because the team are playing well and when that's the case he is lethal, but for so much of the season we've struggled to create and Hernández is only going to compound that issue.
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Are those stats for this season? Hernandez's minutes have been compromised of those several sub appearances from the 75th minute of the game where Moyes just sends him on without any real strategy in our attacking play whereas Welbeck gets a lot of proper game time. And further more, Hernandez has had a confidence crisis, one which most strikers goes through in their careers. His NT performances have also been affected due to that. I remember Hernandez has missed quite a few good chances which he would otherwise dispatch with ease. Maybe a consistent run of games started would have cured the problem. I think if Hernandez would have been given even decent opportunities this season(just 5 starts in the PL against Welbeck's 13), he would have come up with a lot more goals than Welbeck which is ultimately what matters no matter how good you are outside the box or what you contribute to the play. Especially in a season like the one we had this year.
 
Livvie said:
I think that's debatable. He's not had any chance to get a bit of momentum in order to play to his full potential.

Imo, a team with Januzaj and Hernandez will score goals.

Welbeck is erratic. I have very little faith in him. His strengths may be Chico's weaknesses, but his weaknesses are Chico's strengths. Chico's peformance against Newcastle is better than anything Danny has come up with this year. Happy for him to prove me wrong though - I don't care who scores as long as someone does.
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He is not going to get that chance as long as Rooney and Van Persie are at the club. He suffers, as with Welbeck, with the fact that United have 4 strikers in the first team squad, where's as most of the top teams in Europe manage quite fine with a maximum of 3, playing one up. With Welbeck progressing this season and being a local lad from the academy, Rooney just signed a new contract and Van Persie still got 2 years of his contact to run, the future looks bleak for Hernandez in terms of playing time,especially with no CL football next year. Hernandez being the cheap foreign import with his obvious limitations, is the more dispensable of the 4 strikers, especially if he doesn't feel like he is getting enough games.
 
Hopefully he will start in front of Juanji Matawa and Nani today.
 
psychdelicblues said:
He is not going to get that chance as long as Rooney and Van Persie are at the club. He suffers, as with Welbeck, with the fact that United have 4 strikers in the first team squad, where's as most of the top teams in Europe manage quite fine with a maximum of 3, playing one up. With Welbeck progressing this season and being a local lad from the academy, Rooney just signed a new contract and Van Persie still got 2 years of his contact to run, the future looks bleak for Hernandez in terms of playing time,especially with no CL football next year. Hernandez being the cheap foreign import with his obvious limitations, is the more dispensable of the 4 strikers, especially if he doesn't feel like he is getting enough games.
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I know things have changed but it worked with Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer and Sheringham. But more to the point, RVP and Rooney have been out of the side a lot, so imo there's been no excuse for Chico not getting more opportunities than he has been given.

And so far - though this could obviously change and hopefully will - Welbeck hasn't progressed at all, imo. He's inconsistent, and excited me far more when he first played for the first team than he does now.
 
So has a brilliant game against Newcastle and this is his reward.

Moyes seems to have no idea how to keep players happy.
 
Might as well bring him on. He's capable of actually showing some good movement, which could help considering our passing was okay at the start but players like Mata and Kagawa didn't know what to do with the ball because of our lack of movement.
 
Livvie said:
So has a brilliant game against Newcastle and this is his reward.

Moyes seems to have no idea how to keep players happy.
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But all Hernandez does is score goals. We dont need a player who runs defenders ragged and stretches the play...

...clearly.

When we sell him I'm going to be so angry.
 
If he does come on, I'm sure he'd do his best, but what motivation is there for him. He must be totally disillusioned.
 
Livvie said:
If he does come on, I'm sure he'd do his best, but what motivation is there for him. He must be totally disillusioned.
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He's been great since he came on. Running at players, bringing people into the game, trying to run the line. Only United player to look decent frankly.
 
I would almost hold it against him if he doesn't go after the season. He plays with heart and is a terrific player, but he can't even get a start when Rooney is clearly off the boil or even injured. It's pathetic managing from Moyes.

He surprised me today with his drubbling. He dribbled three defenders before playing a perfect pass to Fletcher in a perfect position to score. Then he set Rooney up for what should have been a goal. Motm for me today.
 
Maybe idealistic, but I wonder how he would have done with Januzaj to supply him.

I think Giggs has had more games than Adnan, which is ridiculous.
 
Rossa said:
I would almost hold it against him if he doesn't go after the season. He plays with heart and is a terrific player, but he can't even get a start when Rooney is clearly off the boil or even injured. It's pathetic managing from Moyes.

He surprised me today with his drubbling. He dribbled three defenders before playing a perfect pass to Fletcher in a perfect position to score. Then he set Rooney up for what should have been a goal. Motm for me today.
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This. Fletch and Rooney should've both done better. Hernandez was our most dangerous player today, and while everyone else deserved nothing, he deserved something. If Chico ends up at Atleti or something he'll be a great replacement for Diego Costa if he ends up being sold to Chelsea or whoever. I'll be sad though.

Hernandez has been brilliant since day one for us. When you see him on the pitch you always think if we create one chance for him he can turn a game on its head. Now he's creating chances for others too and he's still maturing as a player while our other strikers age. Mad to sell him, mad.
 
In 2011/12 Hernandez started 18 league games up front and Welbeck started 19. In the two years since then they've had 14 and 11 respectively and now both apparently want to leave, while a creaking RVP will probably never play more than three games in a row for us again.

Heck of a signing there, Fergie.
 
Rossa said:
Januzaj has been managed well by Moyes - the best thing he has done this season without a shred of a doubt.
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Fergie was able to protect younger players, like Giggs and Ronaldo, because there were other players good enough to do the same job.

AJ is 19, not 17. He doesn't need that much protecting, and there aren't better players than him. He should at least have been used more as a sub, if not starting.
 
Rossa said:
I would almost hold it against him if he doesn't go after the season. He plays with heart and is a terrific player, but he can't even get a start when Rooney is clearly off the boil or even injured. It's pathetic managing from Moyes.

He surprised me today with his drubbling. He dribbled three defenders before playing a perfect pass to Fletcher in a perfect position to score. Then he set Rooney up for what should have been a goal. Motm for me today.
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That can't be right. He is useless apart from scoring goals. He won't be missed
 
Chabon said:
In 2011/12 Hernandez started 18 league games up front and Welbeck started 19. In the two years since then they've had 14 and 11 respectively and now both apparently want to leave, while a creaking RVP will probably never play more than three games in a row for us again.

Heck of a signing there, Fergie.
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Let's not be too harsh on Fergie for that one. In all fairness, RVP was superb last season and we'd have struggled to win the title without him.
 
The pass that had an assist written all over it to Rooney was excellent. Probably the best moment we had all game, its too bad people still don't realize his pace, ability, work-rate and most importantly improvement on the ball. He's a class player and with some match time could well develop into a more complete striker. I'd hate to lose him after unearthing this kind of talent out of nowhere.
 
Cheesy said:
Let's not be too harsh on Fergie for that one. In all fairness, RVP was superb last season and we'd have struggled to win the title without him.
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At the moment we won last season's title we had 84 points after 34 games. Season before, with no RVP, we had 82. RVP was great, for one season, but his signing shat all over several players and considering that they're all much younger, and he's now permacrocked, we're going to be suffering for that for a long time.
 
Chabon said:
At the moment we won last season's title we had 84 points after 34 games. Season before, with no RVP, we had 82. RVP was great, for one season, but his signing shat all over several players and considering that they're all much younger, and he's now permacrocked, we're going to be suffering for that for a long time.
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I'll admit that it may not have been wise long term, but at the time it was clearly a very good signing. Whatever way you spin it, it's clear that his purchase that year was crucial in us winning the title. 82 points at that stage the year before is irrelevant when you consider how valuable RVP was at times in the 2012/2013 season. For the money we got him as well, it was a good deal despite that position not being the immediate priority.
 
Chabon said:
In 2011/12 Hernandez started 18 league games up front and Welbeck started 19. In the two years since then they've had 14 and 11 respectively and now both apparently want to leave, while a creaking RVP will probably never play more than three games in a row for us again.

Heck of a signing there, Fergie.
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Did he mean RVP? I thought he meant Moyes.
 
Cheesy said:
I'll admit that it may not have been wise long term
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Short-termism is anathema to this club's identity and to the unprecedented success it has experienced in the last few decades.

Cheesy said:
Whatever way you spin it, it's clear that his purchase that year was crucial in us winning the title. 82 points at that stage the year before is irrelevant when you consider how valuable RVP was at times in the 2012/2013 season.
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Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.
 
Cheesy said:
I'll admit that it may not have been wise long term, but at the time it was clearly a very good signing. Whatever way you spin it, it's clear that his purchase that year was crucial in us winning the title. 82 points at that stage the year before is irrelevant when you consider how valuable RVP was at times in the 2012/2013 season. For the money we got him as well, it was a good deal despite that position not being the immediate priority.
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Livvie said:
Did he mean RVP? I thought he meant Moyes.
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Chabon said:
Short-termism is anathema to this club's identity and to the unprecedented success it has experienced in the last few decades.



Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.
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This argument is academic anyway because Fergie was going to sell Rooney had he stayed. That was proved by Sir Alex's decision to start Hernandez with Van Persie for the last couple of games last season.

Rooney's performance today at Everton has added to the sense that Fergie may well have been right about opting for Van Persie over Rooney too.
 
Chabon said:
Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.
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The year before is fecking irrelevant here in this case. RVP was crucial to us in the 2012/2013 season, whatever way you look at it. As much as I like Welbeck and Hernandez, they wouldn't have been able to do what RVP did and score the number of goals he did. Without RVP, we'd have undoubtedly struggled to win the title.

I like Hernandez and Welbeck, but to be honest I'm not sure either will ever be good enough to lead the line for us as a first team starter if we want to get back to where we were. Excellent squad players, but I'm not sure either will reach that world class level that RVP was clearly on. Yeah, we might not have got much out of him years wise, but he may not be done yet and revisionism that we didn't often depend on him is nonsense.
 
Chabon said:
Short-termism is anathema to this club's identity and to the unprecedented success it has experienced in the last few decades.



Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.
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And? Last season, without RVP, we wouldn't have scored more goals. We wouldn't have scored the same amount of goals. We would have scored less goals. And in all likelihood, we wouldn't have won the title.
 
Cheesy said:
The year before is fecking irrelevant here in this case. RVP was crucial to us in the 2012/2013 season, whatever way you look at it. As much as I like Welbeck and Hernandez, they wouldn't have been able to do what RVP did and score the number of goals he did. Without RVP, we'd have undoubtedly struggled to win the title.
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Why? City dropped substantially from their level the previous season, why would what we had not have been enough when it had been so brilliant the year before?

Cheesy said:
I like Hernandez and Welbeck, but to be honest I'm not sure either will ever be good enough to lead the line for us as a first team starter if we want to get back to where we were.
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You mean where we were when they did lead the line for us? CL finalists, title contenders, champions of England, that kind of thing?

Lance Uppercut said:
We would have scored less goals.
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Again, why would we have scored less?
 
Chabon said:
You mean where we were when they did lead the line for us? CL finalists, title contenders, champions of England, that kind of thing?
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We won the league when Hernandez led the line in 10/11. Welbeck has never been as decisive for us. The season after that we won nothing, the season after that RVP signed and Welbeck was out left most of the time or on the bench.


I still maintain Hernandez would be absolutely deadly for a good footballing team. We haven't been that for years, even under Fergie. Hernandez would be unbelievable leading the line at Arsenal for example.
 
Lynk said:
We won the league when Hernandez led the line in 10/11. Welbeck has never been as decisive for us. The season after that we won nothing, the season after that RVP signed and Welbeck was out left most of the time or on the bench.
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We won the league with Hernandez, then we spent a year alternating between the two of them and got nine more points and a bucketload more goals, and were incredibly unlucky not to win the title.
 
Chabon said:
Why? City dropped substantially from their level the previous season, why would what we had not have been enough when it had been so brilliant the year before?



You mean where we were when they did lead the line for us? CL finalists, title contenders, champions of England, that kind of thing?



Again, why would we have scored less?
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Because we didn't have RVP scoring goals for us.
 
Chabon said:
We won the league with Hernandez, then we spent a year alternating between the two of them and got nine more points and a bucketload more goals, and were incredibly unlucky not to win the title.
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We bottled the league in the final 5 games, lost to Liverpool in the FA cup, lost to Crystal Palace in the Carling Cup, got knocked out of Europe in the group stages by Basel, went to the Europa League and got hammered by Bilbao.


We were awful that year after we lost 6-1 against City.
 
Lynk said:
We were awful that year after we lost 6-1 against City.
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Yeah, we went on an awful run of winning 11 out of 12 league matches in the new year. I'm glad we're not that awful now.
 
Chabon said:
So we shouldn't have sold Ruud in 2006, right?
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What on earth are you babbling about?

Robin van Persie's 26 goals were directly responsible, in terms of equalisers or match-winners, for 26 of United's 88 points.

With no RVP, where are those points coming from?
 
Lance Uppercut said:
With no RVP, where are those points coming from?
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From the same place we got the exact same fecking number of points the season before RVP signed. The players who his signing fecked over, the ones who now either want to leave or had to bribed a small fortune to stay. You know, the ones who are actually fit much of the time and aren't over 30.
 
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