Javier Hernandez | 2011/12 Performances

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Kelvin said:
I also dunno why you think selling hernandez is a great idea...
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Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
 
Red Norse said:
Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
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Chico gets exactly the praise he deserves.
 
Red Norse said:
Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
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The way people go on about Welbeck you'd think Hernandez had the ability of Paul McShane for feck sake
 
Red Norse said:
Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
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You are fecking mental.
 
Note: not every player needs to be an all around player. Hernandez finishes better than anyone in our team. That's his job. He's not supposed to be doing stepovers or crossing. He's mean to score goals. He does it extremely well. The obsession with a player being able to do everything is ridiculous.
 
Red Norse said:
Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
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'Even' worse than Solskjaer's? Whilst I flat out disagree with your assessment of Chico, I am gobsmacked you imply that Solskjaer's first touch was not great. His first touch was sublime. Witness the first goal against Newcastle when we beat them 6-2. Or the touch that lead to the cross for Rooney against Roma in Rome. Similarly the cross for Giggs' equaliser against Arsenal 2-2 in 2003. Or his first of four against Forest.
 
Selling Hernandez to Madrid will really make us look like their feeder club. Tevez, Ronaldo, Hernandez all sold off in 4 seasons wouldn't be a good sign either. I expect him to sign a contract.
 
Sir Matt said:
Note: not every player needs to be an all around player. Hernandez finishes better than anyone in our team. That's his job. He's not supposed to be doing stepovers or crossing. He's mean to score goals. He does it extremely well. The obsession with a player being able to do everything is ridiculous.
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It depends on the tactics obviously, but in general I prefer a well rounded striker to a poacher. Chico will develop, but I'd rather see Danny up front. He's got more to his game.
 
Red Norse said:
Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
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I don't think Welbeck's better than him, he's different and offers different style and they're about the same level for me.
 
Red Norse said:
Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
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Yep, He is indeed a terrible terrible footballer, Really annoys me tbh. Breaking into the team during a season in which that team wins the League and makes a Champions League Final is ridiculously easy and clearly suggests you have limited ability at best. If anything the manager being forced into signing you a year early because of other team's interest and then playing you far more than expected because of your performances just shows how limited of a player you really are.
 
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Red Norse said:
Because Welbeck at 20 is already a better all rounded player ? Just an idea.
I've nothing against Chico, quite the contrary, but the praise he gets around here is ridiculous, he's good but he's not even close to the finished article. His touch is even worse than Solskjaer's ffs.
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Oh dear
 
Can someone care to explain all the controversy? Isn't it obvious that Welbeck has a greater repertoire than Chico? The only argument here should be if a poacher is what we need up top.

I don't think so, having a player like Danny who can drop deep and even drift to the wings will make our game more unpredictable, especially allowing Nani to go inwards to glean those goals he needs to up his status that he desperately wants.

And knowing how the Caf works, yes I know Chicarito played a decive role last season. Has young blood ever done that before though? And a Manc to boot??? I wonder.
 
Red Norse said:
Can someone care to explain all the controversy? Isn't it obvious that Welbeck has a greater repertoire than Chico? The only argument here should be if a poacher is what we need up top.

I don't think so, having a player like Danny who can drop deep and even drift to the wings will make our game more unpredictable, especially allowing Nani to go inwards to glean those goals he needs to up his status that he desperately wants.

And knowing how the Caf works, yes I know Chicarito played a decive role last season. Has young blood ever done that before though? And a Manc to boot??? I wonder.
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Welbeck has looked great, but Chicarito scored a shit load of goals last year in his first PL season and is more proven at this point.

Anyhow.. Why not just keep both of them? Two great options who bring different things to the table and are both good fits for this team.
 
Red Norse said:
Can someone care to explain all the controversy? Isn't it obvious that Welbeck has a greater repertoire than Chico? The only argument here should be if a poacher is what we need up top.

I don't think so, having a player like Danny who can drop deep and even drift to the wings will make our game more unpredictable, especially allowing Nani to go inwards to glean those goals he needs to up his status that he desperately wants.

And knowing how the Caf works, yes I know Chicarito played a decive role last season. Has young blood ever done that before though? And a Manc to boot??? I wonder.
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How do you know what Nani wants? And it used to be that Berbatov alone up front saw Nani in the box trying to be a striker and it didnt really work as thats not how he gets his goals. He gets them from getting the ball on the right, on the wing and then dribbling and shooting from there.

Welbeck has many good things and has had good scoring form for us. His efforts could be described as poacher himself as thats how he's scored his goals this season, good movement and being in the right place in the box.

But Hernandez's movement is on another level to him and pretty much everyone else. And Ferguson has spoken about how he's been impressed with Hernandez's build up play when watching him for Mexico. Welbeck is not the only one who can improve as a player

Lets see how he does when given a run of games with the delivery of Young, Nani, Cleverley, Jones, etc
 
I nominate red norse for 'spastic opinion of the year' (if that isn't a category at the cafe awards, make it one!).
 
Iron Stove said:
Welbeck has looked great, but Chicarito scored a shit load of goals last year in his first PL season and is more proven at this point.

Anyhow.. Why not just keep both of them? Two great options who bring different things to the table and are both good fits for this team.
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I certainly hope that Chicarito stays for many seasons, having strikers with different strengths and styles is very beneficial to the team.

@ Ekeke: I haven't been inside Nani's head, but he's recently given interviews where he's stated that he want to be one of the best players in the world and to be considered one he would have to add more goals to his game. Just to be precise, I wasn't saying that Welbeck and Nani should swap poisitions, but Welbeck's effeciency down the wings means he can drift from a central position and give space for the wingers to go inside.

I also agree that Chicarito's movement is excellent, and like Solskjaer I'm sure he'll develop his overall game under SAF's guidance.
 
Typical knee-jerk defensiveness the moment anyone dares criticise certain players in our squad. What, exactly, did Red Norse say that means he should be called a spastic or a moron? Ffs.

Based on what we've seen so far this season, we're better going forwards with Welbeck up top than we are with Hernandez. Based on what we've seen from his career so far Welbeck could well go on to become a better player than Hernandez ever will be. He's potentially got so much more to his game. How on earth does pointing this out suddenly become grounds for crucifixion? Of course, Welbeck might fail to kick from here, or even regress but he also might go from strength to strength. Time will tell. We look a lot better with him in our team right now than we do with Hernandez, that's for sure.

As for Hernandez, my personal opinion is that we'd be mad to sell him. He's a natural goal-scorer and there will always be room for players like that in our squad. Whether he becomes the next Van Nistelrooy or the next Solskjaer remains to be seen. At present he's a lot more similar to the latter than the former and anyone who's familiar with Ole's career knows that being a natural goal-scorer isn't always enough to be a guaranteed starter for United.

To be fair to him, he does seem to have been working on his link-up play and trying to become more of a well-rounded striker. Very early days. He's still young too and there's plenty of time for him to improve and develop his all-round game. The battle between him and Welbeck for a slot alongside Rooney can only be a good thing for the club in the season ahead.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Typical knee-jerk defensiveness the moment anyone dares criticise certain players in our squad. What, exactly, did Red Norse say that means he should be called a spastic or a moron? Ffs.
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Saying things like Hernandez has a terrible first touch is pretty ridiculous don't you think?

But yes, calling him a spastic is way over the top, despite his opinions on Hernandez being way off the mark.
 
adamsmarshall adam marshall
javier hernandez's agent eduardo hernández tells the mexican media the striker is agreeing a five-year deal with #mufc
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:D

Beat you to it Stanley.
 
RT @AdamSMarshall: Javier Hernandez's agent Eduardo Hernández tells the Mexican media the striker is agreeing a five-year deal with #mufc
 
cina said:
Saying things like Hernandez has a terrible first touch is pretty ridiculous don't you think?

But yes, calling him a spastic is way over the top, despite his opinions on Hernandez being way off the mark.
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He actually said his touch is worse than Solskjaer's. Which is a semantic difference, to be fair.

It's also confusing, because I thought Ole had a good touch. Might be talking about his ability to hold the ball up? Both Ole and Hernandez aren't at their best receiving the ball with their back to goal. More a lack of physical presence than touch IMO but they both struggle to control the ball when it's pinged into them with a defender tight behind them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He actually said his touch is worse than Solskjaer's. Which is a semantic difference, to be fair.

It's also confusing, because I thought Ole had a good touch. Might be talking about his ability to hold the ball up? Both Ole and Hernandez aren't at their best receiving the ball with their back to goal. More a lack of physical presence than touch IMO but the ball often seem to get away from them when it's pinged into them with a defender tight behind them.
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It is a difference but the way it was worded sounded like it was dissing his first touch a bit didn't it?

Hernandez has a great touch when it comes to setting himself up to put the ball in the net. That goal against Valencia in the CL group stage last year was a great example of that. I think he's also looked sharper in his link up play this year too, obviously not brilliant or anything but still improved, so he's certainly worked on it.

Welbeck will likely become a better all round forward, but I can't see him becoming as good a goal scorer as Hernandez, which is why it's a good thing to have both in the team isn't it?

At the end of the day though, they'll likely be picked based on who compliments Rooney better, and that's still Hernandez for me, though Welbeck has shown he can link up well with him too, so who knows.
 
cina said:
It is a difference but the way it was worded sounded like it was dissing his first touch a bit didn't it?

Hernandez has a great touch when it comes to setting himself up to put the ball in the net. That goal against Valencia in the CL group stage last year was a great example of that. I think he's also looked sharper in his link up play this year too, obviously not brilliant or anything but still improved, so he's obviously worked on it.

Obviously Welbeck will likely become a better all round forward, but I can't see him becoming as good a goal scorer as Hernandez, which is why it's a good thing to have both in the team isn't it?

At the end of the day though, they'll likely be picked based on who compliments Rooney better, and that's still Hernandez for me, though Welbeck has shown he can link up well with him too, so who knows.
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Yup. The way he took Giggs's pass in his stride when he scored against Blackpool last season was brilliant too. He's definitely got a very good first touch. Not so good making it stick with his back to goal though. Which is why I think the Ole comparison is actually a good one.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yup. The way he took Giggs's pass in his stride when he scored against Blackpool last season was brilliant too. He's definitely got a very good first touch. Not so good making it stick with his back to goal though. Which is why I think the Ole comparison is actually a good one.
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it's always been a pretty obvious one, though I think Hernandez will show that he won't be labelled an "impact sub" like Ole was.

Considering how young him, Rooney and Welbeck all are, the future is very bright.
 
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