You can tell he's been reading the Caf because he's using transfer windows as a measure of time now
Jason Wilcox - New technical director
- Thread starter reddevilchennai
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You can tell he's been reading the Caf because he's using transfer windows as a measure of time now
Him talking this bullish about working with Wilcox just all points towards him being here in summer
Or he knows he's a dead man walking and he is clinging into anything to save his dear job. The fact he speaks so much while we hear zero news from INEOS about his future speaks itself
Oh good, Amrabat is under scrutiny. Make sure it’s a good long analysis Jase. That’s come in real useful when his loan ends and he doesn’t play for us next season!
What a load of waffle!
What do we need to hear from INEOS ? They are putting the structure in place to allow Ten Hag to do his job. SJR already came out a few weeks ago and said they are making a lot of changes above ETH and making too many to quick is not good.
They keep him that's definitely a black mark against their name,also means Neville will be smug that he was right to back him
TBF, when ETH was appointed many Ajax fans came to this platform and warned us that ETH is terrible at signing players. It was Overmars as DOF at Ajax that created the successful team/style of play. But our incompetent DOF at that time Murtough did exactly the opposite and delegated all the players signing to ETH. The rest is history.
Maybe just maybe, under competent football structure of Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox this could work?
Maybe just maybe, under competent football structure of Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox this could work?
Erik ten hag's contract has been terminated by mutual consent. We thank him for all the work he has done here and wish him well for the future.
Will a competent structure also hold his hand in training sessions so we don't concede shots and goals at an unprecedented rate in matches?
It was reported that Wilcox want him to change to a certain style of play. Probably, something like he used to play in Ajax. Failure so, he will be replaced.
Personally, I would like to have a new manager. 2 years and he didn't even show any progress. But the reports are indicating that Wilcox is willing to give ETH another chance.
I don't think it was ever a likelihood that they were going to come out and openly say they'll sack him with a cup final on the horizon. There's a good chance all of that is just lip service.
Yeah, a few weeks ago it looked like he was a dead man walking and in his interviews and demeanor it was that of a defeated man. I guess someone has assured him but I think it is just to ensure the meltdown is halted. Problem is he is delusional and sees a stay in execution as an endorsement.
If we cannot trust someone to have enough knowledge about the quality of the players he has managed for three years, then I doubt we should trust him regarding any aspects of his competence.
It's like working with a junior doctor and then you move somewhere else that requires a different skill set but you brought that Doctor in anyway for him to struggle despite knowing what his ceiling of his skill
In any case, this idea that a DOF decides style of play is alien to me. If you like a style of play, you bring managers that play that style. If they don't and you think you have provided them with he tools to do it, then change the manager. Simple as ABC
I believe the interest from other clubs is real (Ajax/Bayern) so maybe he's just relieved about his own future. I don't think he has the full support of the dressing room anymore.
Fixed
Say it like it is
Hopefully this guy is the real deal. I remember when Murtough was appointed DOF, the club PR machine was also bigging him up and credit him for modernising the club with proper football structure. Fast forward a few years, he was the worst ever DOF.
I know time is very tight now as transfer window is coming soon. Just hope we are more sensible and shrewd in transfers this window and no more signings like Antony 80M, Casemeiro 70M, Mount 60M, Onana 50M and even Hojlund 70M and etc.
I know time is very tight now as transfer window is coming soon. Just hope we are more sensible and shrewd in transfers this window and no more signings like Antony 80M, Casemeiro 70M, Mount 60M, Onana 50M and even Hojlund 70M and etc.
Saw someone pretending to be Jason Wilcox on Telegram last night. Gave me a laugh!
There's a feature where you can see other users in your area, mostly used by what I'm assuming are scammers spoofing IP addresses. There's profiles of attractive women who really want to talk to you, either looking for romance or to sell sex. Supposed drug dealers too.
First time I saw anyone impersonating someone famous, they were using his picture and everything. He was supposed to be at Old Trafford at about 2 in the morning, with a little Google Maps pin centred on the middle of the pitch and some Chinese writing next to his street address. Wonder what the angle was there, trying to get people to pay money for a trial at United? Fake ticket seller?
Edit: He's still there tonight.
There's a feature where you can see other users in your area, mostly used by what I'm assuming are scammers spoofing IP addresses. There's profiles of attractive women who really want to talk to you, either looking for romance or to sell sex. Supposed drug dealers too.
First time I saw anyone impersonating someone famous, they were using his picture and everything. He was supposed to be at Old Trafford at about 2 in the morning, with a little Google Maps pin centred on the middle of the pitch and some Chinese writing next to his street address.
Wonder what the angle was there, trying to get people to pay money for a trial at United? Fake ticket seller?Edit: He's still there tonight.
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Don’t say it so out loud, please.
Breakfasts with ten hag. Better be a full English.
So we're expecting Ashworth to determine our playing style later.
Meanwhile, we're going with whatever these new other people thought our playing style should be? And that include choosing manager, and players to buy and keep.
Hopefully this Ashworth guy has been working behind the scene already. Otherwise, it would be another clusterfeck later on.
Meanwhile, we're going with whatever these new other people thought our playing style should be? And that include choosing manager, and players to buy and keep.
Hopefully this Ashworth guy has been working behind the scene already. Otherwise, it would be another clusterfeck later on.
Ashworth was never going to single-handedly decide on the playing style. It'd be a general discussion from Ratcliffe, the rest of INEOS, Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox, with it becoming more detailed and specific as it goes down the chain. The general discussion on that style would have already been had with Ashworth when we first hired him, to ensure both parties were on the same wavelength.
I also expect that something as big as hiring a new manager would be mentioned off-the-record with him.
Also realistically, it's not going to be hard coded to a really specific style, it will just be a high level description. If I had to guess, the obvious choice is to look at a head coach with a proven background coaching a younger team to high press - it's a tactic proven in the PL at all levels with all budgets, it's easier to recruit for because your physical metrics are easier to quantify than technical ones and Brailsford's background lends itself to this, plus many of Ineos are close to Ragnick professionally. Essentially, I think they are looking at the Red Bull multi club model and thinking why can't we do the same with Lausanne, Nice and United whilst looking at Klopp's net spend at Pool being so small and licking their chops.
A lot of people were deeply sceptical of Murtough and just hopeful he wouldn't be as thick as Woodward.
It just feels like Wilcox is a significant jump in credentials and knowhow. Murtough always struck me as a bit of a chancer who was promoted out of a failed regime.
Reports coming out from the club now is indicating that Wilcox is working closely with ETH. They meet on daily basis to discuss the football direction of the clubs including coming transfer window signings. This worry me as I really don't think ETH is the right person to bring us forward. Of course hope he is right and have data to back this decision if he decided to go with ETH. Hope he is no Murtough 2.0
One of them said the same thing about LvG when he was signing for us in 2014. And think he was even worse then ten Hag in that regard. I don't think we'll go for a Dutch manager again in the near future.
Tbf this is partly oversimplified and partly untrue. Untrue: There were not ‘many’ Ajax fans that said TH was ‘terrible’ at signing players. Neither did anyone say that Overmars ‘created the successful team/style of play’. Closer to the truth is that ‘some’ Ajax followers said TH weren’t ‘in charge of’ player signings, and that Overmars and TH worked closely together with Overmars central behind finding the right players from outside to complement the in-house players, and Ten Hag responsible for playing style and identifying profiles needed to play that way. Ajax, to a degree had an established playing style implemented in their youth football over many years and shaped by such diverse coaches as Cruyff and Van Gaal, and Ten Hag related to that, but still changed it so much in his own direction that both Ajax fans and people at the club protested to begin with, before results brought them around.
The simplistic idea is that finding players who flourish in a playstyle, and making a playing style which works with the players at hand, is a one man or even two man job at this level. It’s to a huge degree a team effort where it’s even more important that things click in a miljeu, than that that you have a certain person in any particular job position.
I read from knowledgeable Ajax posters here in this forum stating exactly that ETH is not good in signing players. Most of the good players was identified by Overmars or the structure in Ajax. ETH signings at Ajax was average at best.
Of course there is no black and white on who is ultimately in charge of style of play and signing players, DOF or manager. It could be both working closely. But the fact is proven that ETH signings here in Man Utd is again average at best.
As for Murtough, he shouldn't give someone like ETH so much power to decide on players when he has no proven track records.
It's meaningless though because everyone would claim they'd never sanction signings of players that didn't work out, wouldn't they? What does that even mean/prove besides awareness of hindsight. If Antony went on to score 30 goals this season would he have leaked that he wouldn't have sancitoned signing him at the time? Of course not as it would make him look like a tit.
"See that signing that didn't work out? I wouldn't have done that" says absolutely nothing. Everyone in the history of football has looked at a signing that didn't work and come to the unsurprising conclusion that were they in charge they wouldn't have made that signing. Might as well list all the good and negative signings over the years and respond with faux amazement that everyone who comments would have sancitoned the players that worked out well but not sancitoned the signing of players that didn't.
"I really thought that disaster was a bloody good signing at the time" - leaks nobody ever. Jason Wilcox, would have made all the right decisions at the time and known what the wrong decisions would have been and wouldn't have made them. Also, known to eat breakfast.
"See that signing that didn't work out? I wouldn't have done that" says absolutely nothing. Everyone in the history of football has looked at a signing that didn't work and come to the unsurprising conclusion that were they in charge they wouldn't have made that signing. Might as well list all the good and negative signings over the years and respond with faux amazement that everyone who comments would have sancitoned the players that worked out well but not sancitoned the signing of players that didn't.
"I really thought that disaster was a bloody good signing at the time" - leaks nobody ever. Jason Wilcox, would have made all the right decisions at the time and known what the wrong decisions would have been and wouldn't have made them. Also, known to eat breakfast.
Well it reads less black and white when you detract ‘many’ from posters and replace ‘terrible’ with ‘average’ to be sure.
Of course you and I can only speculate to which degree a signing is forwarded by Ten Hag, by Murtaugh, by head of recruitment or by ohers in the recruitment set up. Normally at least four people will have to think an aquisition to make sense for it to go through, but in this day and age, I agree that the idea should not normally com from the manager/head coach, because he/she’s not supposed to have time to have andetailed overview of what players exist that are available and fit the bill. So we are in agreement that if much of the signings at United since TH arrived were his own suggestions, that is a sign of a faulty system. One or two makes sense at the beginning of a manager reign, because it is commonly seen as an advantage in terms of setting the playing style, training regime etc quicker if you can bring some who knows it by heart.
Lisandro Martinez and Antony fit that bill, and I thin most people will agree Martinez was a very shrewd and effective signing in that sense. Antony not so much, but my view is that even if he individually weren’t a big success last year, he did help the team catching up to Ten Hag’s ideas and function as a team moreso than Jadon Sancho could. I think most would agree last season that it wasn’t the contribution to the team that was the big issue with Antony, it was the ridiculous price and the lack of contribution from others in that position.
What we do know, is that United had just fired the two most important people in recruitment, while Murtaugh and Arnold were both going the ropes outside of their fields of competency. That is certainly the opposite of what TH had in Overmars/Ajax, and the opposite of what Klopp has had at Liverpool, Pep at City and Arteta at Arsenal. Wether that made TH more central in identifying targets, and wether that was the lesser of evils given the FUBAR situation above/around him, I won’t even guess.
What I’m quite certain of is that until we have a functional set up with DoF, Tdir, HoR etc, we can’t expect to see functional recruitment at the club, completely tegardless of who the manager is.
Murtough’s strengths lay elsewhere particularly in helping build up the academy for which we are seeing the progress now. He was a lazy and wrong appointment as DOF.
Keep Ten Hag. He needs time. He has already proven he can win a trophy. Following a similar pathway to what Arsenal have done with Arteta. Genuinely feel a better structure behind the scenes will yield results.
Of course it will. Fully agree and hope the club will too. Plus there are very few ‘better’ options out there currently. The manager market is in overdrive!
I still believe there is a great player inside Antony somewhere. Just like we know there is inside Rashford and Sancho. What all these misfires need is quality around them, and especially in the centre of the park. Casemiro instead of Rice looks like the worst bit of business in the history of the Premier League.
The club has backed Wilcox…proven by his appointment. If he and ETH don’t share the same strategy Wilcox will (eventually) take that straight to Ashworth…’Erik is being obstructive’ and they’ll just find someone who aligns. Thats what you would hope at least
Well, if you want to go so particular on the wordings. The 'many' is in relation to the Ajax posters here. There are not many of them here but most posters here agreed/stated that ETH should not be in charge of signings players due to his records in Ajax. And let's be honest here, most of the players we signed are one way or another related to ETH or Eredivisie. And we are currently 8th in the league. It was a complete failure from mostly Murtough as he was supposed to be the one in charge of signings players.
Hopefully.
Of course he won't. But if that is his main task, I'm guessing he'll have the most say. Otherwise, why would they give him that task or even hire him?