Maguire 2.0. Probably a bit simplified, that. But not a huge fan. He's got a mistake in him, and the values being knocked about are outrageous
Jarrad Branthwaite
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
The best CB and GK of the last 10 years both have mistakes in them.
So would you buy him for your club for £70m or move on to someone who represents better value, and is probably a better player?
I don't have the ins and outs of every club and their financial situations or future plans but I think he would be a good buy for any of the top clubs as he's capable of being that level of player.
£35m + Maguire is the deal here!
Swaps never happen, but McTominay and Pellistri strike me as players who might play their best football under Dyche since McTominay can be a #10 for them in Dyche's system and Pellistri's most similar player on FBref is actually Jack Harrison, and just being a traditional winger on the right looking to get some crosses in probably suits him best. Wan-Bissaka would fix their hole at RB, too. So a swap isn't crazy if if it works out.
Pellistri is the antidote of Dyche football if you ask me. Light, likes a good dribble, not reliable every game.
Maguire has been one of the best defenders in the league btw whenever he's got a run of games...I love how there's so many reluctant posters coming up with this reason as if that's a reason to avoid Branthwaite
You've got a very short memory. Maguire became absolute meme-worthy for a long spell after an appalling season last year.
It's to his absolute credit how he's performed for a lot of this season - albeit with the disclaimer we're a team operating in 8th and maybe that's the level of club he looks good in?
But surely you can see that 80million was criminally overpaying, which is why some are alarmed the fee for Branthwaite could be similar.
I don't care that Maguire was a laughing stock for people who don't watch United games and get their opinions from scrolling through football meme pages. Maguire was one of the best defenders in the PL in his last couple of seasons at Leicester, and then his first two seasons for us. Then we had a nightmare season where he was admittedly bad, just like every other player in the squad. After that, ETH joined and Maguire hasn't been a starter ever since. He's still that same player of pre-2021/22, though.
And no, 80m wasn't a criminal overpay. If we overpaid, it was by 10 or 20 million at most. Most big defenders have gone for very big fees since the van Dijk transfer, more specifically very similar profiles to Maguire such as de Ligt or Dias. How much do you think would've been a fair value for a 26 year old, English centre half that had been one of the best defenders in the league for a few seasons at that point, had been an established English international for some time, is a great organizer, huge physical presence, and a leader on the pitch as well? The best environment for him to perform in was Ole's two full seasons, and he did perform very well. Out of the last 3 seasons since then, two have been absolute disasters, but Maguire hasn't been a starter in two of them, so there isn't that much to judge him on. You know what, I'd even argue that he was the best defender in the whole league in the 2020/21 campaign, after van Dijk suffered an ACL injury in October, or at least top 3.
I've Maguire's name on a United shirt and I always liked him. But he's had an absolute youtube video of gaffes and we definitely horribly overpaid and never looked best in league material for us.
He's obviously not the only one, we have an absolute catalogue of poor signings for value.
I'd keep him now, there's absolutely no benefit in selling, and he'll probably be as good as anyone bar a City defender for a backup defender.
I wouldn't back us to get a quality centre back in though, or for Martinez to play more than 25 games, so chances are Maguire still starts 30+ like he has the last 3 years.
I think his wingers are a little different and can be quite light (Lennon, McNeil) and a lack of reliability is just endemic to traditional crossing wingers, though it's true that Dyche definitely rates delivery and Pellistri's isn't very good.
But in general there are less traditional wingers around, so it sort of feels like when one pops up they might make sense for Dyche. Pellistri can't score goals so he isn't going to play wing in a 4-3-3 for a Prem team. Maybe 4-2-3-1, I could see him developing okay at Fulham.
I don't know him enough. But Rio at his age was seen as a player who has a mistake in him and we paid a lof of money for him (though he was obviously more experienced).
I'd take that with bells on at £40 million or so, but I just keep thinking Phil Jones for no rational reason at all.
Maguire has done well when he came in this season.... but one of the best in the league? No. He still makes mistakes that could result in goals, he takes ages on the ball and is so slow.
Someone said yesterday something that made a lot of sense which was to basically do away with Shaw as a left back and use him full time as a centre back, playing centrally would help him immensely fitness wise as bombing up and down the flank puts all kind of stress on his body.
Bringing in a top quality right sided centre back like Diomande and having Maguire as back up then Martinez with Shaw as back up and Kambwala and Evans if he doesn’t retire as back up. We could then sign a top quality starting left back with Amass and Malacia as back up and Shaw as worst case scenario.
No one would be mentioning Maguire if he wasn't English.
We need a top class RCB and DM more, should have learned our lessons that a player being capable of playing to a good standard in a secondary role shouldn't lead us to spending huge sums of money on him and then expect him to shine consistently in that role. Unless we are putting more importance on the passport than is necessary he shouldn't be our primary target.
I am genuinely worried about the noises coming out of Ineos. We did this 'Buy British' nonsense four years ago and we are still paying. Ole was our Southgate and it ended badly. They look like they want to repeat these mistakes and re-learn what we have painfully learned. Then the dithering on the much deserved ETH sack because of one game, this could be a disastrous rein from SJR.
I am genuinely worried about the noises coming out of Ineos. We did this 'Buy British' nonsense four years ago and we are still paying. Ole was our Southgate and it ended badly. They look like they want to repeat these mistakes and re-learn what we have painfully learned. Then the dithering on the much deserved ETH sack because of one game, this could be a disastrous rein from SJR.
They stoned Cassandra at the gates if Troy because she phropesized impending catastrophe in times of wealth and fair summers.
They would have had a field day on the Redcafe.
You realise Liverpool, City and Arsenal all have a strong British contingent in their line-up?
He's had a good season, his best for us, but previous seasons he's been very poor.
What if he’s available for £45m because Everton need to sell before 30th June to avoid point deduction, would you be keen us spending £45m on a centre back who can use both of his feet to cover RCB and LCB?
Liverpool's are mostly a mixture of academy graduates and reasonably priced players like Robertson, who is one of the best value for money signings around. City with Foden, academy graduate, Grealish and Phillips who are expensive flops and then Stones and Walker who were expensive but great signings - a mixed bag we can't afford to replicate ourselves given where we are.
I'd rather we follow Liverpool's approach and build up our British contingent, which is very key in itself, from Carrington and not spend upwards of £50m on an LCB who could be useful on the right but won't ever be comfortable enough to be world class on the right. Considering this, I'd rather we take a hard pass on this and not be motivated by his nationality at the expense of the team's needs.
It's not really at the expense of team needs. It's natural that teams within the framework of a certain league have the best talents from that nation.
From The Athletic:
Jarrad Branthwaite is a player of interest but Everton are expected to demand a considerable fee for the left-sided centre-half, rating the 21-year-old in the same bracket as the likes of Harry Maguire, Wesley Fofana and Josko Gvardiol, all of whom were sold in recent summers for fees of over £75million.
Any idea that he could be available for £45m or thereabouts because of Everton's PSR situation might be a little fanciful. The article goes on to say that we're (unsurprisingly) prioritising a right-sider, with Todibo name dropped.
In any case, I don't think we can really afford £75m-odd for a position we aren't prioritising.
Jarrad Branthwaite is a player of interest but Everton are expected to demand a considerable fee for the left-sided centre-half, rating the 21-year-old in the same bracket as the likes of Harry Maguire, Wesley Fofana and Josko Gvardiol, all of whom were sold in recent summers for fees of over £75million.
Any idea that he could be available for £45m or thereabouts because of Everton's PSR situation might be a little fanciful. The article goes on to say that we're (unsurprisingly) prioritising a right-sider, with Todibo name dropped.
In any case, I don't think we can really afford £75m-odd for a position we aren't prioritising.
As I said before, the talk of 40m fees and fire sales came from The Sun and Talksport. Go figure.
Has he ever played RCB? If he is predominantly left sided, can only assume we would play Martinez LB?
They did sound silly, yes. But people hear PSR and they think half-off bargains are guaranteed, even though it barely ever works like that.
Massively overrated... nowhere near Varane's class. I thought we were looking for upgrades: I'm sure there must be an Italian CB who is getting on a bit who would be a better bet
Calafiori (Bologna) and Buongiorno (Torino) seem to be the two most highly rated Italian LCBs atm. Both available for way less than JB.
Three seasons in and we're still looking to sign former Eredivisie players? 
He was like that till Vidic arrived, and that was probably not his fault. They complimented each other beautifully after that.
Ive not seen enough of him to have an opinion , but the bit I have seen doesn't immediately tally up with what my toffee brother in law says about him . He likens him to a young John Stones .
Here’s my out of touch, overly simplistic view of buying young players
A) 0-45m potential / unproven at the top level
B) 45m-75m potential / proven at the top level
C) 75m+ seen as a sure thing
Give or take a few million either side
I’d put this guy right on the borderline between A and B. However it’s normal for buying / selling valuation to be miles apart due to the strong bargaining position of premier league teams.
At which point supply/demand should kick in and we should exhaust all options abroad.
A) 0-45m potential / unproven at the top level
B) 45m-75m potential / proven at the top level
C) 75m+ seen as a sure thing
Give or take a few million either side
I’d put this guy right on the borderline between A and B. However it’s normal for buying / selling valuation to be miles apart due to the strong bargaining position of premier league teams.
At which point supply/demand should kick in and we should exhaust all options abroad.
I'd be concerned by the club spending a lot on him considering he'd likely be backup to Licha. Understood its important to have quality backups in each position but not for the funds quoted. RCB is the priority.
We'd be paying over the odds for him because he's a homegrown English player that we'd be buying from another club in the PL. Considering how we are not lacking in homegrown players (so we're not desperate to fill a quota) this would be a bad investment in my opinion. The club surely has to identify an alternative from a foreign club who can be had for less money.
He fits the profile in that he's young, quick, strong, has Prem experience and has his best years ahead of him.
Haven;t watched enough of his matches to have a well informed opinion of his game though. What I have noticed from the games against us he does go to ground quite often.
Haven;t watched enough of his matches to have a well informed opinion of his game though. What I have noticed from the games against us he does go to ground quite often.
How are we not buying these players as Everton does, for 1 million? Now, we have to pay at least 55 times that.
Dropped from the England squad. Lewis Dunk preferred. I suspect he will not be going for a 75m fee.
Because clubs like them take multiple chances on these players and develop them. We don’t have opportunity to give them a full season of football before they are ready.