Loublaze? He's a horrible character. I put him on ignore a long time ago.
If he doesn't want to speak intelligently about a national team, then no need to discuss with him.
Japan
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Loublaze? He's a horrible character. I put him on ignore a long time ago.
If he doesn't want to speak intelligently about a national team, then no need to discuss with him.
He had 5 years and over 3000 posts in the noobs?He belongs to that huge group of horrible newbies that got promoted in the last few months. It's best to put him on ignore
Really disappointed with Japan. After following then as closely as I could over the past few years I expected more.
The players seemed very jaded. It was the same in the confed cup minus probably the Italy game.
The players seemed very jaded. It was the same in the confed cup minus probably the Italy game.
He belongs to that huge group of horrible newbies that got promoted in the last few months. It's best to put him on ignore
I generally put anyone who uses the term "fanboy" on ignore. It's the language of children.
But people who followed Japan's progress have been saying that for years. I'm just baffled the JFA haven't worked that out yet, especially after last year's Confederations Cup. Something has to change in how to raise youth players, mainly defenders and strikers. I believe a big part of the problem comes from their cultural group dynamic where everything has to work more or less homogeneously. It just doesn't work that way in football because every top team has specialists in each position.
Strikers and defenders need to be raised into mastering their positions from an early age. They have to learn about their job early on so they can develop that ruthlessness that separates top players from others. As a United fan, I'm sure we wrote at times about how we need top specialists rather than all-around players who are not extraordinary at anything; this is also the case with Japan.
I think most people would have backed them to at least finish above Greece, or get more than one point.
Chile have shown that sometimes it's not all about the ability of the players but how they function as a team, and Japan (before this world cup) were known to be a good outfit. So in that sense, yes they have been disappointing, and there's nothing overzealous about it.
If football is just based on technical ability I think they are already there. Its the experience and athleticism that is missing in their game. You look at fecking Ivory Coast who had players playing like Sunday
league amatuers but still managed to lut two past them. Jpanese football needs to focus more on their physical fitness in order to progress. Even their best player Kagawa was overawed sometimes by the physicality in the PL.
league amatuers but still managed to lut two past them. Jpanese football needs to focus more on their physical fitness in order to progress. Even their best player Kagawa was overawed sometimes by the physicality in the PL.
I think most football hipster overated Japan a bit (most people also thought they would beat us -Mexico- in the Confeds LOL), they need a better striker thought.
I guess he's not that great, but Mike Havenaar would have been useful even if just as sub against Greece and Ivory Coast adding a bit of physicality they're lacking (they remind me of Mexico, a bit more technical, but also more one-dimensional).
I guess he's not that great, but Mike Havenaar would have been useful even if just as sub against Greece and Ivory Coast adding a bit of physicality they're lacking (they remind me of Mexico, a bit more technical, but also more one-dimensional).
It's only me that think Honda was average. Apart from the cross that led to the equalizer, other chances created by him were just not clear cut and poor, while the recipients kept trying to do the best they can with it.
Not only that, he looks immobile yet people like @Lane kept praising his longballs as if longball is now the be all in football, no doubt watching too much of Rooney and Gerard. When will it sink into them that long ball isn't what creativity or controlling entails? It's for switching plays for Christ's sake.
No wonder England fans can't help themselves basking in love for the likes of Rooney, Gerard, Barkley e.t.c. They rather appreciate long ball, long bursting runs over intelligence, appreciation of space and creativity which was what Kagawa provided throught out the game.
If they hire a shedload of foreign coaches to teach at middle/high school level as well as youth academies, you can bet the physicality problem would be a lot less of an issue because those guys would recommend using taller and stronger blokes for precise roles (at the back and forward). It's the Japanese coaches who are still enamored with players from the same mould: small, technical, good all-around, but not specialized enough. That mould/archetype has to be broken anyhow, but it will only come if there are forward-thinking coaches.
I sound like I'm speaking about England's obsession with players from particular moulds as well. When it comes to experience, they will have to keep moving by the dozens abroad and learn from playing with and against the best. I can't see how they can improve their level otherwise.
@T.banty10: I agree with you about Honda. Except for a few moments of brilliance, he was shite for the rest and zero consistency in his game.
That's a pretty amusing comment. How'd your qualifying go? Totally thrash New Zealand in the playoff?
Cool comment, need more "thank Zusi" and "dos a cero" for more obvious trolling.
He belongs to that huge group of horrible newbies that got promoted in the last few months. It's best to put him on ignore
If you're not one of the fanbois you'll have no problem with my post. And Mad Winger, keep thinking you're better just because you were 'promoted' before me. You're nothing special son. Just like Japan. Minnows
Honda was not particularly good, but better than everyone else in his team (in attack at least). And i did not praise him for long balls, you need to read the posts, i praised him for being more ballsy than his partners, his assist being a perfect example of that. His cross was great and as it turns out Honda was involved in all of Japan's goals at this tournament. What does it tell you?
Not sure where I have seen japan being over hyped ?? Most of the post were setting fairly realistic targets for the team, and expecting them to qualify ahead of Greece and IC is not hype, just realistic expectations.
In any case, a big part of the problem was created by themselves. Why did their tactics involve long balls and crosses ?? They are not a physically imposing side, so the these tactics seemed like the least suited to them. I don't watch them regularly, so i don't know if this is how they always played. That just seemed odd to me.
In any case, a big part of the problem was created by themselves. Why did their tactics involve long balls and crosses ?? They are not a physically imposing side, so the these tactics seemed like the least suited to them. I don't watch them regularly, so i don't know if this is how they always played. That just seemed odd to me.
Cool comment, need more "thank Zusi" and "dos a cero" for more obvious trolling.
So weird coming from a guy who just labeled people "hipsters" for liking Japan when your team was pathetic in qualifying. Ah, the irony of a troll calling someone a troll. Really precious and super super newbie. Another one for the ignore bin.
It tells me Honda played as the forward he is, offering no support to the midfield nor contributed to the flow of the game which basically cost them against Ivory coast and Greece.
And Honda wasn't Japan's best player last night, he was basicaly shit yet you kept praising him for having more longball than Kagawa, forgetting that Honda is more likely to be the one switching play to the wing due to him playing in the centre whereas Kagawa was on the wing, how can a player on the wing switch play to himself?
You talk about 5-15 yard passes, however those passes kept opening up spaces and splitting up wall of opposition's midfield. Do you know Kagawa made the highest throughball in our team last season? As long as those 5-10 yard passes are penetrative, incisive and not mostly Cleverley's sideway-backward passes, what's the fuss? That was the reason I called you out because those 5-10 yard actually created space and that's forgetting several intelligent movements Kagawa made and intelligent positions he took up in the game, which also open up space.
You also kept banging on the one good chance Honda created despite him creating many non-clear cut and poor ones, whereas Kagawa created several better chances which were fluffed by the recipient, yet according to you, Honda was the better player on the pitch. what does this tell you?
Lastly, you always say Kagawa is a second striker but let me ask you, does his performance against Italy in the confederation cup, last season Newcastle, Aston Villa, Bayern, Westham, Swansea games or the 5-2 Dortmund win over Bayern looks like a second striker's play to you? In all of these games, he was basically dropping deep to take control of the midfield yet you said he's a second striker?
And to cap it all, why do you think Kagawa had a shit season for us when he was basically our best player in the champion league and had several good performance in the league which include Westham, Aston Villa, Newcastle, Westbrom, Hull City, Swansea out of the 14 GAMES he started in the league, in which 2 of them was in a struggling flat 2-man midfield?
Can you answer this, pls?
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I call "hipsters" to the people who thought they were dark houses just cuz it was fashionable (I didn't call names here, but I have seen it in other places before).
I in fact like the Japanese NT a lot, really technical players with a nice playing style, just too one-dimensional.
And while Mexico was piss all of 2013, maybe our lowest since 2001 with Meza, Japan couldn't beat Mexico.
I dont think theres a problem with the coaching. I believe Japanese people are very studious, if there is something they like they can copy it and make it better. I think a natural development is all that is needed, this generation has outdone the Nakata generation, now it will be the next or one after that?
Nice job catching the obvious joke.
First of all don't be ignorant. I never praised Honda for longballs only. Can you give the exact quote with proper context.
All these stuff about support and flow are basically sorry excuses to justify player that has no skill to actually deliver Honda does. Kagawa did not assist, other player did not, he did. And in the first game he scored and that was a fantastic goal as well. It's not a big skill, when you compare it to Robben's, but he was best Japan's player in attack.
How many of Kagawa's passes are actually penetrative, incisive and dangerous for opposition? Come on, they are all here. I see only two passes into the box.
Kagawa only made one really interesting and initiative chances in the game. This on, on 26 min(i think), when Yoshida was the recipient.
The three other chances are:
Not one of them are decent. The one in the box is actually a slight back pass to Nagamoto when he shot from the edge of the area, without any real venom.
So you need to name me exactly what "several better chances" Kagawa created. Because i think simply put, you are making stuff up. Kagawa never created a chance even close to the Honda's assist. That was a great cross right into the danger are, into 6-yeard box almost.
And again, you just misunderstood what i've said. I said that Kagawa in Dortmund, and that applies to Dortmund only, was shadowing the CF. In a way he was in a very advanced position, in some respect because Dortmund pressed really high, but still, in some matches, in many matches, his average position would be very close to a CF if not on the same line vertically. Mata at Chelsea for example played much deeper. And that's why:
"...holding to the ball was never an issue, more often he got a ball on the speedy counter-breaks and there was no need to think of a clever pass like Xavi does, Dortmund attacks were pretty vertical and straight-forward."
And i used this justification to argue that Kagawa would not be a good option in a CM position. Because his creativity is fundamentally different to Mata's in my opinion. And the one that's just does not fit with being a creative CM.
To even suggest that an attacking player can be "best" while having zero goals and none of the assists is completely moronic. Either that, or it is extremely kagawa-biased, almost in a zealot type of way.
No wonder you can see Kagawa's shortcomings. I mean to brand him as our best player in CL is such ridiculous statement.
Just as funny as Côte d'Ivoire conceeding that last minute penalty.
Zaccheroni resigns.
About time, he completely screwed the whole campaign up.
Just as funny as Côte d'Ivoire conceeding that last minute penalty.
Im not an Ivory Coast fanatic. Laugh all you want, I said Ivory coast would beat Japan and they did. Thats all that matters. 2 goals scored and 6 conceded
. I told you Japan were not ready for this world cup, they are minnowsYou said they'd go thru...Im not an Ivory Coast fanatic. Laugh all you want, I said Ivory coast would beat Japan and they did. Thats all that matters. 2 goals scored and 6 conceded
African only have 1 team in the last 16 so far due to a blatant refereeing error during Nigeria v Bosnia, oh well... good for them.
First of all don't be ignorant. I never praised Honda for longballs only. Can you give the exact quote with proper context.
All these stuff about support and flow are basically sorry excuses to justify player that has no skill to actually deliver Honda does. Kagawa did not assist, other player did not, he did. And in the first game he scored and that was a fantastic goal as well. It's not a big skill, when you compare it to Robben's, but he was best Japan's player in attack.
How many of Kagawa's passes are actually penetrative, incisive and dangerous for opposition? Come on, they are all here. I see only two passes into the box.
Kagawa only made one really interesting and initiative chances in the game. This on, on 26 min(i think), when Yoshida was the recipient.
The three other chances are:
Not one of them are decent. The one in the box is actually a slight back pass to Nagamoto when he shot from the edge of the area, without any real venom.
So you need to name me exactly what "several better chances" Kagawa created. Because i think simply put, you are making stuff up. Kagawa never created a chance even close to the Honda's assist. That was a great cross right into the danger are, into 6-yeard box almost.
And again, you just misunderstood what i've said. I said that Kagawa in Dortmund, and that applies to Dortmund only, was shadowing the CF. In a way he was in a very advanced position, in some respect because Dortmund pressed really high, but still, in some matches, in many matches, his average position would be very close to a CF if not on the same line vertically. Mata at Chelsea for example played much deeper. And that's why:
"...holding to the ball was never an issue, more often he got a ball on the speedy counter-breaks and there was no need to think of a clever pass like Xavi does, Dortmund attacks were pretty vertical and straight-forward."
And i used this justification to argue that Kagawa would not be a good option in a CM position. Because his creativity is fundamentally different to Mata's in my opinion. And the one that's just does not fit with being a creative CM.
To even suggest that an attacking player can be "best" while having zero goals and none of the assists is completely moronic. Either that, or it is extremely kagawa-biased, almost in a zealot type of way.
No wonder you can see Kagawa's shortcomings. I mean to brand him as our best player in CL is such ridiculous statement.
There's isn't a human alive who spends more time tearing Kagawa apart than you.
Kudos. Tremendous United fan.
Well unlike yourself i am actually supporting Manchester United, not Kagawa United. So i don't really like to put with such a ridiculous statements like "Kagawa was our best player in CL". I don't really regard it as matter of opinion. Just stupid.
First of all don't be ignorant. I never praised Honda for longballs only. Can you give the exact quote with proper context.
All these stuff about support and flow are basically sorry excuses to justify player that has no skill to actually deliver Honda does. Kagawa did not assist, other player did not, he did. And in the first game he scored and that was a fantastic goal as well. It's not a big skill, when you compare it to Robben's, but he was best Japan's player in attack.
How many of Kagawa's passes are actually penetrative, incisive and dangerous for opposition? Come on, they are all here. I see only two passes into the box.
Kagawa only made one really interesting and initiative chances in the game. This on, on 26 min(i think), when Yoshida was the recipient.
The three other chances are:
Not one of them are decent. The one in the box is actually a slight back pass to Nagamoto when he shot from the edge of the area, without any real venom.
So you need to name me exactly what "several better chances" Kagawa created. Because i think simply put, you are making stuff up. Kagawa never created a chance even close to the Honda's assist. That was a great cross right into the danger are, into 6-yeard box almost.
And again, you just misunderstood what i've said. I said that Kagawa in Dortmund, and that applies to Dortmund only, was shadowing the CF. In a way he was in a very advanced position, in some respect because Dortmund pressed really high, but still, in some matches, in many matches, his average position would be very close to a CF if not on the same line vertically. Mata at Chelsea for example played much deeper. And that's why:
"...holding to the ball was never an issue, more often he got a ball on the speedy counter-breaks and there was no need to think of a clever pass like Xavi does, Dortmund attacks were pretty vertical and straight-forward."
And i used this justification to argue that Kagawa would not be a good option in a CM position. Because his creativity is fundamentally different to Mata's in my opinion. And the one that's just does not fit with being a creative CM.
To even suggest that an attacking player can be "best" while having zero goals and none of the assists is completely moronic. Either that, or it is extremely kagawa-biased, almost in a zealot type of way.
No wonder you can see Kagawa's shortcomings. I mean to brand him as our best player in CL is such ridiculous statement.
Don't be stupid, penetrative and incisive passes are not outright chances, they are passes that opened up space for the team which Kagawa did many times in the game.
If you had watch the 1st half of the game, you w'ld notice in the 13th mins, he created a good chance for Uchida and clear chance for Yoshida in the 26 mins, not forgetting the brilliant solo run he had to create chance for himself, which led to a good shot and the Nagatomo's chance. if you can't see this, then you're obviously blind.
It's a shame you judge players on assists, when we all know that stats depends on the players at the end of the chances. Also, you should be aware most of Mata's goals and assists last season, were fashioned out by Kagawa, who was constantly dropping deep to support him. It wasn't a suprise Mata was shit in his earlier games for us when he had no one supplying him the incisive passes he needed until Kagawa came into show. So, who's the second striker between Kagawa and Mata?
Does it ever occur to you why Mata never had a good partnership with Rooney but did with Rvp? It's due to Rooney invading into his second striker's territory, thereby pushing him deep into the midfield which he's not comfortable with. This is easy for Kagawa as he's always formed a good partnership with Rooney everytime he played in the centre, because he's comfortable dropping into the midfield. However Kagawa can't play in a flat 2-man midfield but in a 3-man midfield. A 3-man midfield allows him to form intricate triangle, which was obvious in the Newcastle Swansea, Westham, Villa, Dortm'd 5-2 win over Bayern e.t.c. However, you're too blind to see this.
Lastly, Kagawa's composure on the ball is a lot better when he plays in the centre because the vision of play is clearer in the centre than the wing, where he often drifts into opposition's defenders.
In the Swansea and Sociedad match when Kagawa was moved to the centre later on, his runs and dribbles on the ball were more assured, and it was difficult to dispossess him off it. Barca fans would also testify that Messi's huge turnovers last season was as a result of Tata moving him to the wing. Infact, Messi was a lot better in the centre than on the wing.
What I'm saying is, the vision of play is a lot better in the centre.
You said they'd go thru...
African only have 1 team in the last 16 so far due to a blatant refereeing error during Nigeria v Bosnia, oh well... good for them.
It was a bad decision, but Bosnia didn't help themselves either with an overall lackluster performance that their fans and manager accept. They did better against Argentina and Iran.
Well, one African team got lucky and made the last 16, one got unlucky and missed out.
Personally I think Japan need to get more aggressive. They depend too much on neat passing and a decent level of technical ability but they are simply too kind to teams at the back. Or is it just a basic lack of physicality to their game that can't be remedied? Do you somewhat agree?
They certainly could do with a few more physical players, someone like Tulio from a few years ago.
I actually agree completely with that view.
In addition, @Lane if you can't realize Honda played much like a forward in all of the games he played, then it's a pity.
Honda was the midfielder in the centre, who was supposed to link-up the midfield to the attack, support the midfield and contribute much more to the flow of the game, which he didn't and Kagawa have to do his job for him. If you only think a midfielder's job is to act like a forward, pumping long ball and crosses then you're more clueless than I thought.
Like I said earlier, Kagawa kept probing the opposition's midfield wall with passes you were calling 5-10 yard passes. However, these 5-10 yard passes were mostly throughballs which I'm sure the source of your football knowledge, Whoscored.com won't record, because it only records throughballs that led to chances but don't record throughballs that opened up space in the midfield. Kagawa himself made the highest throughballs in the team last season, despite starting only 14 games in the league. And that's not forgetting the intelligent movement and position, he provided and took up respectively in the Colombia game. That makes the work he did in that game thrice of what Honda did in the game.
I would just ask you if you think Kagawa was poor in the games against Swansea, Aston Villa, Westham, Hull city, Newcastles, Bayern (both legs), Leverkusen (both legs), R. Sociedad (1st leg), how was he among the top 3 in MoM award in those games? If he has 5 good performances in 5 CL starts, how would you say he wasn't our best player in that campaign, when he was our best player in Bayern munich and Sociedad games?
If you can't see this, then that eyes is better being closed because it's useless, best advice I offered to one of your colleague by the way.
Lastly, like I said earlier, the amount of ball he lost which isn't as much of that of Mata and Rooney, was as a result of him drifting from the wing. Players that contribute much more to the flow of game finds it difficult drifting from the wings because they have to comes infield into the midfield and as such, encounters obstacles on their way, which they are not easily aware of, because the vision of play isn't clearer there.
However, this is of no problem to players that don't contribute to the flow of the game e.g Ronaldo e.t.c. These players plays more like forwards on the wings and enjoys finding space running behind the opposition's defence.
Another example is David Silva, who was a lot better in the centre than on the wing, last season. He played one of the best game of his life against Barca, playing in the centre and he was the best player on the pitch, however he had no goal nor assist in that game, which makes him the worst player on the pitch according to your logic.
In other words, despite City having the team built around Silva last season, his best performance still remains in the centre, except against us where he had no obstruction while drifting from the wing due to our open midfield.
And in the games Kagawa played in the centre, he has been much more assured on the ball, much more confidence running with the ball because the vision of play is clearer in the centre and as such, he's easily aware of the obstacles on his way. That's more of the reason Japan and Manutd should play him in the centre.
Personally, his style of play in the centre has been much more enjoyable to watch than the likes of Mata's and Rooney's, probably because he not only create chances but every flow and build-up goes through him, whenever he plays in the centre. Even in his first game for us against a physical Everton side, he was our best player on the pitch while the likes of Rooney and Cleverley were shitting in their pants.
Also, the Swansea, R. Sociedad, Leverkusen, Bayern is another testament of how good he is in the centre. In other words, he never looks like a second striker. Infact, Mata and Rooney looks much more like one than him.
However, I'm not saying he should play in a flat 2-man midfield where he won't have passing options and can't form a triangle.
Honda was the midfielder in the centre, who was supposed to link-up the midfield to the attack, support the midfield and contribute much more to the flow of the game, which he didn't and Kagawa have to do his job for him. If you only think a midfielder's job is to act like a forward, pumping long ball and crosses then you're more clueless than I thought.
Like I said earlier, Kagawa kept probing the opposition's midfield wall with passes you were calling 5-10 yard passes. However, these 5-10 yard passes were mostly throughballs which I'm sure the source of your football knowledge, Whoscored.com won't record, because it only records throughballs that led to chances but don't record throughballs that opened up space in the midfield. Kagawa himself made the highest throughballs in the team last season, despite starting only 14 games in the league. And that's not forgetting the intelligent movement and position, he provided and took up respectively in the Colombia game. That makes the work he did in that game thrice of what Honda did in the game.
I would just ask you if you think Kagawa was poor in the games against Swansea, Aston Villa, Westham, Hull city, Newcastles, Bayern (both legs), Leverkusen (both legs), R. Sociedad (1st leg), how was he among the top 3 in MoM award in those games? If he has 5 good performances in 5 CL starts, how would you say he wasn't our best player in that campaign, when he was our best player in Bayern munich and Sociedad games?
If you can't see this, then that eyes is better being closed because it's useless, best advice I offered to one of your colleague by the way.
Lastly, like I said earlier, the amount of ball he lost which isn't as much of that of Mata and Rooney, was as a result of him drifting from the wing. Players that contribute much more to the flow of game finds it difficult drifting from the wings because they have to comes infield into the midfield and as such, encounters obstacles on their way, which they are not easily aware of, because the vision of play isn't clearer there.
However, this is of no problem to players that don't contribute to the flow of the game e.g Ronaldo e.t.c. These players plays more like forwards on the wings and enjoys finding space running behind the opposition's defence.
Another example is David Silva, who was a lot better in the centre than on the wing, last season. He played one of the best game of his life against Barca, playing in the centre and he was the best player on the pitch, however he had no goal nor assist in that game, which makes him the worst player on the pitch according to your logic.
In other words, despite City having the team built around Silva last season, his best performance still remains in the centre, except against us where he had no obstruction while drifting from the wing due to our open midfield.
And in the games Kagawa played in the centre, he has been much more assured on the ball, much more confidence running with the ball because the vision of play is clearer in the centre and as such, he's easily aware of the obstacles on his way. That's more of the reason Japan and Manutd should play him in the centre.
Personally, his style of play in the centre has been much more enjoyable to watch than the likes of Mata's and Rooney's, probably because he not only create chances but every flow and build-up goes through him, whenever he plays in the centre. Even in his first game for us against a physical Everton side, he was our best player on the pitch while the likes of Rooney and Cleverley were shitting in their pants.
Also, the Swansea, R. Sociedad, Leverkusen, Bayern is another testament of how good he is in the centre. In other words, he never looks like a second striker. Infact, Mata and Rooney looks much more like one than him.
However, I'm not saying he should play in a flat 2-man midfield where he won't have passing options and can't form a triangle.
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Is it true that their federation want Javier Aguirre as their manager for the next cycle? That would be just jarring, considering the kind of football he likes to play. Kagawa and Honda would be wasted under him.
I read the article too. TBH, I hope they don't go there. Aguirre is a cnut by all meanings of the word.
Too bad Frank Rijkaard said he quit coaching as a final decision. I would have gone after him if he was available.
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