Go ahead, get a mortgage on your house/apartment and put it on Cote D'Ivoire.
Japan
- Thread starter Scrumpet
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You're seriously deluded if you think that's the case. Zambia crated sod all during the match and were gifted 2 of their 3 goals.
Japan played very badly and still won convincingly enough.
Clutching at straws? These are all valid arguments. When you spend most of the time on your own half, struggle to create good chances, and the only goals you get are the result of deflections and goalkeeper mistakes, then you can't really say that you were the better team. At least not when the other team scores more goals, all of which were well taken.
No wonder it took you 5 years and over 3000 posts to get promoted. The moderators have promoted a lot of crap newbies lately. I don't know where your hatred for Japan comes from(seeing as you blindly refuse to take a second look at any reasonable argument), but it's funny to watch.
I'd guess he's either Korean or mainland Chinese by the way he's blindly opposing Japan.
You're the deluded one. We saw different games, lets just leave it at that. Japan struggled and you cant accept that. Zambia were more composed and more entertaining.
Zambia's keeper made mistakes too and he wasn't even their first choice, he plays in a semipro league! You're also blind to see that Zambia lacked defensive disclipline and blind to see that they caused havoc whenever they went forward. What about the two missed chances by Zambia? The open header and the shot that had the keeper rooted and just wide of the post? I don't give a feck about your views on my promotion, doesn't make you any better than me. You're not giving Zambia the credit they deserve, make it sound like Japan doninated the game when at least one other poster agrees with me that Zambia were more skillfull and more entertaining. You ride a high horse with the promotion BS, really? You got promoted faster than I did...I couldn't care less your excellency! Im here my man!
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Composed? Composed team don't tend to conceed 2 goals in 2 minutes to go from 2-1 up to 3-2 down.
Entertaining? It was quite entertaining watching them chasing shadows in the 2nd half, despite Japan playing badly.
Anyway, we'll see in just over a week when Japan play Cote D'Ivoire.
Composed? Composed team don't tend to conceed 2 goals in 2 minutes to go from 2-1 up to 3-2 down.
Entertaining? It was quite entertaining watching them chasing shadows in the 2nd half, despite Japan playing badly.
Anyway, we'll see in just over a week when Japan play Cote D'Ivoire.
Composed on the ball. I already said their one weakness was defensive discipline. We shall see indeed.
Composed on the ball? Weren't you the one who pointed out on the last page that being composed on the ball (Bayern) means f all if the opposition score for fun (Real)?
No, I said dominating possesion. Nice try.
Now dominating possession means f all, yet being composed on the ball (whilst creating little) is important?
@Loublaze
The goals Zambia conceded:
1st goal:
Correct penalty to Japan. Penalties usually end up in the back of the net. Nothing to do about that.
2nd goal:
A hard, low cross towards the back post. The keeper was waiting for someone to make contact with the ball. When nobody made contact, he was caught wrong footed, and the ball went in. They could have done more to prevent this, but it wasn't a mistake per se.
3rd goal:
Brilliant play by Japan. Quick dribbling, followed by a precise pass into the box, and a tap in for Honda.
4th goal:
World class long ball over the defense, followed by an excellent finish by Okubo.
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The goals Japan conceded:
1st goal:
A standard cross into the box which got deflected to the back post. Uchida has full control, but is too clumsy to see that he's followed by a Zambia player. Nishikawa foolishly runs out to help Uchida, which he never should have done. The ball is headed over Nishikawa. So that's a simple deflected cross and mistakes by 2 Japan players.
2nd goal:
A shot from outside the box. It's not particularly well-placed, nor is it very hard. Most decent keepers would have saved that. Unfortunately, Japan tested their second best keeper yesterday. He's not good enough.
3rd goal:
Yet another long shot, only this time it's deflected. Again the goalkeeper should have done better.
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You see where I'm getting at now? Just because Zambia had 2 shots(one of which was a standard header) off target, it doesn't make them better than Japan offensively. Especially not when you look at how the goals went down.
Zambia was extremely lucky to score that many goals yesterday. Japan was not lucky to score their.
Japan was not brilliant by any means, but they deservedly won.
The goals Zambia conceded:
1st goal:
Correct penalty to Japan. Penalties usually end up in the back of the net. Nothing to do about that.
2nd goal:
A hard, low cross towards the back post. The keeper was waiting for someone to make contact with the ball. When nobody made contact, he was caught wrong footed, and the ball went in. They could have done more to prevent this, but it wasn't a mistake per se.
3rd goal:
Brilliant play by Japan. Quick dribbling, followed by a precise pass into the box, and a tap in for Honda.
4th goal:
World class long ball over the defense, followed by an excellent finish by Okubo.
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The goals Japan conceded:
1st goal:
A standard cross into the box which got deflected to the back post. Uchida has full control, but is too clumsy to see that he's followed by a Zambia player. Nishikawa foolishly runs out to help Uchida, which he never should have done. The ball is headed over Nishikawa. So that's a simple deflected cross and mistakes by 2 Japan players.
2nd goal:
A shot from outside the box. It's not particularly well-placed, nor is it very hard. Most decent keepers would have saved that. Unfortunately, Japan tested their second best keeper yesterday. He's not good enough.
3rd goal:
Yet another long shot, only this time it's deflected. Again the goalkeeper should have done better.
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You see where I'm getting at now? Just because Zambia had 2 shots(one of which was a standard header) off target, it doesn't make them better than Japan offensively. Especially not when you look at how the goals went down.
Zambia was extremely lucky to score that many goals yesterday. Japan was not lucky to score their.
Japan was not brilliant by any means, but they deservedly won.
Now dominating possession means f all, yet being composed on the ball (whilst creating little) is important?
Bayern had upwards of 60% possession against Real Madrid in both games. It didn't take them anywhere. I was simply making the point that dominating possession doesn't always mean something if its useless possesion. The game could've easily ended in a draw if Zambia were more focused at the back, they conceded exactly a minute after they scored in the 89th minute. My arguments here are all based on the fact that both you and his excellency poster @Mad Winger criminally dismissed Zambia's game. Alas, Japan won, they struggled but they won. Bravo.
The game could easily have ended 5-0 if Japan was in good form. It's pointless to think like this.
I've seen world champions struggle more than Japan did against worse teams than Zambia. Being a Japan-hater you're of course free to look at this game and draw the conclusion that Japan sucks. But that doesn't make you any less of a retard.
Oh im a retard because I dont happen to share your views? How nice. You're bitching about poor newly promoted posters yet you've reduced yourself to using words like 'retard'. Your ass is firmly planted on the saddle of that high horse isn't it dear? Hypocrite. Don't like my posts? Fine, we don't have to debate, or you can bitch in the worst posters thread, go ahead and name me, I dont care.
I call you a retard because your arguments don't have any basis, you write things such as "LOL", and you seem to have a fiercly anti-Japan stance. It's no longer a matter of "opinion" then.
Now if you excuse me, I have to feed my horse. Good day, lesser form of poster!
I call you a retard because your arguments don't have any basis, you write things such as "LOL", and you seem to have a fiercly anti-Japan stance. It's no longer a matter of "opinion" then.
Now if you excuse me, I have to feed my horse. Good day, lesser form of poster!
Ok your excellency. Don't break your neck trying to suck your own you know what. Peace.
I don't know how simply stating that Japan didn't have a good game against Zambia is a fiercely "anti-Japan stance" (unless you've argued with him in the past) - Even Zaccheroni admitted that he was not satisfied with how the game panned out. Japan conceded some cheap goals against Zambia and let them run rings around their defence for good part of the game, which they cannot allow against better teams. I reckon Japan will at least make it to the knockout stages, however. Maybe even become a dark horse at a stretch.
Fierce might be a stretch, but judging by the following quotes, it would seem that he has some sort of beef with Japan. He's far too emotionally involved:
I can actually smell the bitterness through the screen. Unless he's a diehard Zambia supporter(which I don't think he is), then it's fair to assume that he has some sort of problem with Japan. For whatever reason.
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And like I've stated earlier: this was not a good game by Japan. But the important thing is that they won. Deservedly.
In the past, Japan has had a tendecy of losing these sort of games, where they're sloppy in defense. It's comforting to see that they can grind out a few ugly wins every once in a while. That's necessary to get a winner mentality.
It's also good that Zaccheroni could see that Nishikawa isn't good enough to start. There's no way the game would have turned out like this, had Kawashima been in goal.
I felt Japan looked really shaky in the first half. It's hard to feel confident when you allow two goals while you were only able to take one or two shots.
They allow goals too easily. I don't know what it is but they always seem to allow goals first. They've been fortunate to be able to come back in the recent test matches, which is better than not coming back, of course, but it won't be that easy in the real match. And also the comeback had to do with the Zambians getting a bit tired relative to Japan in the second half, which at least partially has to do with the fact that the six subs worked well for this match, but of course there's only three allowed in the real match, as I mentioned earlier.
Looking back at the Zambian goals, first goal I don't see the sense of urgency in right back Uchida's defense. He just seems to allow the guy to get to the ball first. I mean so close to the goal, he should have the utmost sense of urgency to clear the ball away. Goal keeper Nishikawa seems guilty of not shouting at Uchida to do so.
Second Zambian goal was a nicely organized move by them to create space for the shooter. (You see this one often in futsal.) At corner kicks I see none of the Japanese defenders doing anything to try to restrict the movement of the Zambians. I don't want to blatantly advocate fouls, but in reality we all know defenders often try to put their arms around their mark or even pull shirts, etc. Later in the game there was a scene where the Zambian attacker got a free header from a corner, and the replay showed Endo being pushed down. Being susceptible to such things worries me.
Third Zambian goal, their equalizer after Japan's 3-2 lead, came from the shooter dribbling almost from the half way line. The shot hit Yamaguchi's foot changing the trajectory to go over GK Nishikawa (he's quite short for a GK), so at that point there seems not much that he could have done. Yamaguchi had to get closer to the shooter to defend, but the shot was taken before he could do that. Before that you can see the eventual shooter running past someone on the dribble. You can't allow these attackers to dribble with speed, you want to try to stop them or at least slow them down, and there also wasn't the second man who is covering for the defender in case he gets beaten.
I think also related to the confidence issue is the terrible performance by Honda. He was a great bottleneck. He kept repeating terrible passing mistakes or would lose the ball from indecision. That certainly boosts team morale. Some people rumor he might be playing with some sort of illness and he might retire after this WC. Just rumors but the mistakes he's making are incredible.
Okubo's goal, the last one in the match, was for me one of the best goals for the Japan NT that I've ever seen at least. He's really a striker. Perhaps he should have saved it for the real match...
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On a more careful reading of the article, I think it means that the qualifiers for next years cup game start this September, so they'd be in preparation for it. Either way not a big point. Cheers.
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Over the past 8 months Japan have played by far the most entertaining brand of football of all 32 teams going to the final (obviously not based on any quantifiable stats, just my opinion). Remember when they had Alex in midfield? Why can't they naturalize a semi-decent striker??? They'd go up another level even with someone like Wondolowski as the striker.
They are my office sweep team, so they'll go out in the group stages. Sorry.
Wow, Alex Santos 三都主. Haven't remembered him in a long time. Think he plays for a 2nd division team now.
@LetMeRollIt are you Japanese? If you are would you have any objections to bringing in a non-japanese striker for the team?
Yes, I am. Thanks for the thought. In general if there's any good player, striker or otherwise, who happens to want to naturalize, personally I wouldn't mind at all. Would I accept a great gift? Of course.
But it's not like the government allows naturalization easily. Over the years there were several Brazilians who naturalized, but these guys had been playing in Japan for a long time. In case of Alex I thought he'd been here since he was a teenager or something. At least in Tulio Tanaka's case. And he was a Japanese-Brazilian.
Ramos Ruy who was the no.10 in the NT for the 94 American WC qualification played in the domestic league for years before we had J-league.
I don't know why any player who doesn't have any relevance to the country would want to become Japanese. And that shouldn't be our main strategy to make the NT better.
Football/soccer is really popular among sportive boys in our country. They seem to practice really hard, and they generally seem to have good technique, but we know the issues they often face at the international level; they're used to playing only mostly against fellow boys so they're not adapted to the more physical and aggressive opponents, guys that are simply bigger, stronger, taller, faster pushing and shoving you when you try to play, being intimidated and not being able to play confidently enough, etc.
One scene that stood out for me in the test match against Zambia yesterday was Kakitani being knocked down by a shoulder charge in the penalty box chasing a ball when the defender was not playing the ball at all. Kakitani is quite quick to run behind the line and has superb ball control, but he doesn't seem to be able to make an impact. Being knocked down like that would have been a foul all their lives they've played, so IMO you can't really blame them for not being prepared for that. (Such agression would generally raise eyebrows in our culture, you know generally we're supposed to be the polite kind of people, so you just don't grow up playing like that. Defenders don't pull the shirts to stop the attackers. Well, at least not before, may be the kids now have more "malicia" I don't know.)
We don't need one import who can overwhelm such defenders, we need a system to bring up whole bunch of players who can be like that. The players need to be exposed to the tough international stage at a much earlier phase, during their teens I think. Currently yes the best players will be selected to the NT at their ages and will experience several international games, but that's only a few games a year for 20 players or something. The good players will play in the NT in the Olympics or the WC, and some of them would get to go to Europe, but by then they'd be in their mid 20's or something, and then they have to adapt to the physicality.
I've read that the Mexican have their teenage NT play something like 50 international matches a year, for the players' experience. That's the sort of thing the Japanese NT needs to do I think. I want my NT to become stronger in a solid way in a long term plan.
This is a good point. When I played university football in Japan I noticed two things:
1. The technical aspect of the game is top notch. Stopping the ball, controlling it, running with the ball, and making the right pass. These are all apsects of the game that the Japanese seem to excel at. Even the goalkeepers had good ball control!
2. The game they play is incredibly clean. I can't remember seeing a single hard tackle or injury while I was there. The players had almost no defensive aggression whatsoever. Back in my home country(Norway) I used to get yelled at by my coach for not being tough enough. In Japan on the other hand, I was told to calm down. I could also tell that the players got scared when I came running. They were just not used the occasional(though accidental) kick to the ankle. They wouldn't dare to kick the ball unless they were absolutely sure that they would hit it. The risk of hitting the opponent's legs was too intimidating.
Wow, you played, in university!
m_ _m (<-- That's bowing down in respect if you've wondered.)
Exactly. If [edit] a kid did something dirty to stop the opponent, I think the mentality of would be something like: "Aren't you ashamed you want to win like that? Do it fair and square."
[Edit] And then when you go out there in the internationals you get pulled and kicked and pushed and punched when the referee isn't watching. (Of course I'm exaggerating a bit.)
I don't know, I think, in the old days of bushido, when high-level samurai meet in battle they would have to introduce themselves first before, and then others would have to watch the duel. And then it's as if someone suddenly shoots you with a gun or something.
Confederations Cup last year, the Japanese were reminded how Brazil is not just about fancy attacking (though there's definitely that of course), but a lot of aggressive defending. We saw Honda getting brought down on fouls many times to break up the attacking.
But players like Yamaguchi now aren't afraid to do the pushing and shoving game I think so I'm glad for that.
m_ _m (<-- That's bowing down in respect if you've wondered.)
Exactly. If [edit] a kid did something dirty to stop the opponent, I think the mentality of would be something like: "Aren't you ashamed you want to win like that? Do it fair and square."
[Edit] And then when you go out there in the internationals you get pulled and kicked and pushed and punched when the referee isn't watching. (Of course I'm exaggerating a bit.)
I don't know, I think, in the old days of bushido, when high-level samurai meet in battle they would have to introduce themselves first before, and then others would have to watch the duel. And then it's as if someone suddenly shoots you with a gun or something.
Confederations Cup last year, the Japanese were reminded how Brazil is not just about fancy attacking (though there's definitely that of course), but a lot of aggressive defending. We saw Honda getting brought down on fouls many times to break up the attacking.
But players like Yamaguchi now aren't afraid to do the pushing and shoving game I think so I'm glad for that.
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I think this thread has had enough talk of horse's for one day.
I missed the game, but the defensive problems Japan have sounded like they were on show. Japan are a good attacking team, but very porous at the back and through the midfield. In my eyes they are abit like Arsenal afew seasons ago, with a worse defence.
I'm not sure the poster above is so anti Japanese (i find any mention of that, very tedious), but just reacting to the the over promotion of the team.
It goes back to something very fundamental on how Japanese football is growing. For all the solid midfielders who are produced, I'm just baffled about the lack of quality regarding other positions (although the strikers are producing their share of goals for now), especially the back 5. Even despite the lack of apparent talent behind, there are a few things I wish they could have to compensate such as group effort and communication at the back. I don't think I remember how many times me and other people following Japan saying that the goalkeeper and the Ds messed up because of a lack of communication, and yet it is something that can be worked every day on the training ground since the last few weeks. What else can be done to correct that? Anyway, I hope a boss will arise some day either as a goalkeeper or a centre-back for Japan. They obviously need someone with a strong character to lead the back 5.
I don't know if that answers your question on the last part, but I once read a long time ago that Winrar has South Korean descent... so anyone should take his opinions regarding Team Japan with a small bag of salt before things get out of hand. Nothing against anyone, but I have to dish out this warning to all parties involved here.
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Not sure I follow you. I dont believe winrar was said anything negative about Japan. Being Korean shouldnt mean you automatically dislike Japan.
I think Japan are on the right track with their development, so within another 10 years you'll see decent defenders etc
I agree completely on this.
And besides, people are entitled to their opinions, negative or otherwise, as long as it's not slander and we remain respectful I believe.
Ivory Coast matchup should be interesting because they play quite a physical game which tends to give Japan problems. That being said Cote D'Ivoire has issues at the back that Japan can exploit. Should be a fairly high scoring game.
Even with our (Japan's) current defensive faults, I believe Japan's defense is stronger and more experienced on the international level than before.
We've had a small number of attacker playing in a European league from the first time we went to the World Cup (1998), but this is actually the first time Japan goes to the WC with a CB that plays in Europe (Yoshida at Southhampton, though admittedly overall he's struggled this season).
Left and right backs (Nagatomo and Uchida) and their primary subs (the two Sakai's) all happen to play in Europe.
But the game we're trying to play is generally tough for the defense, because the current team, unlike the one from the last WC, tries to maintain an attacking style with a high defense line, as I've mentioned before.
Some people have been surprised that the defensive CM Hosogai was not selected, but Zacc has explained that he decided we have overall a better chance of winning with an attacking style.
Forward Okubo was the selection enabled by Hosogai's omission, and Okubo has actually been very influential in the past few games. If Japan does any well, Okubo has a good chance of being the MVP for Japan.
High line or not, overall I do feel defense has to be played with more urgency, and that they should be yelling at each other to play like that (so I agree with Kakeru in this respect if that's what he means).
LB Nagatomo has stated after the Zambia game that if we play like this we'll definitely lose against Ivory Coast, because IC holds a lot greater attacking threat than Zambia. So I hope the team realizes this.
Agreed. I think it will be a contest of which side can more exploit the defensive weakness of the other.
On that, we can close this bit.
Exactly. That's what my former PE teachers used to say before playing team sports (including football): keep on communicating, and shout if you have to. It's the one thing that can help saving goals more often than not between goalkeeper and defenders.
If they don't realize the need to play tighter and more focused on the defensive aspect, they probably never will. So fingers crossed that they do.
Ive had the same thought regarding Okubo, he has shown a lot of energy in the friendlies. I hope he gets plenty of playing time and not just a sub role.
Semi-related. It must be hard to pull off those tricks in full samurai gear
Is it fair to expect quite a few goals in the Ivory Coast vs Japan game then?
Both defenses seem a bit shaky, both have quality in attacking positions and reading this thread, Japan may play a high line? This would be dangerous against a team with a lot of pace in attacking areas. Also, posters have mentioned Japan perceived weakness of coming up against more aggressive teams.
Both defenses seem a bit shaky, both have quality in attacking positions and reading this thread, Japan may play a high line? This would be dangerous against a team with a lot of pace in attacking areas. Also, posters have mentioned Japan perceived weakness of coming up against more aggressive teams.
@iBoss
I think there's gonna be at least 3 goals. Ever since Zaccheroni took over, he has insisted on playing attacking football. The games vs Argentina, Paraguay and France all ended 1-0 in favor of Japan, but that was in the very beginning of Zaccheroni's reign. He's changed Japan's philosophy completely.
Looking at some of the impressive friendly victories, some might say that Japan would be better off playing it more safe. But generally, I agree with Zaccheroni's approach. If Japan sit back and try to soak up pressure, then they're only delaying the inevitable. They're just not good enough defensively to become a success like that. Japan is good at attacking, passing the ball around, and working together as a unit. When it comes to one-touch passing, I think they're right up there with the best nations(Spain, Brazil, Germany).
So yeah, unless Ivory Coast decides to park the bus, I think we can expect at least 3 goals. My guess: 3-2 to Japan.
I think there's gonna be at least 3 goals. Ever since Zaccheroni took over, he has insisted on playing attacking football. The games vs Argentina, Paraguay and France all ended 1-0 in favor of Japan, but that was in the very beginning of Zaccheroni's reign. He's changed Japan's philosophy completely.
Looking at some of the impressive friendly victories, some might say that Japan would be better off playing it more safe. But generally, I agree with Zaccheroni's approach. If Japan sit back and try to soak up pressure, then they're only delaying the inevitable. They're just not good enough defensively to become a success like that. Japan is good at attacking, passing the ball around, and working together as a unit. When it comes to one-touch passing, I think they're right up there with the best nations(Spain, Brazil, Germany).
So yeah, unless Ivory Coast decides to park the bus, I think we can expect at least 3 goals. My guess: 3-2 to Japan.
Thanks man. I was asking because I was thinking of putting a bet on goals.
I suppose you think Japan get out of the group then? It's quite a tight group and difficult to guess who goes through IMO.