I agree in principle, but in reality there are attainable targets that would definitely improve us if we pay a bit more than we'd like to. The issues around signing Fellaini were mainly issues with identifying the target in the first place. It may prove not to be a good signing but Moyes can't be scared or hesitant to go back into the market because he's (potentially) had his fingers burnt once. We're not in a situation where we can afford to be conservative, if we miss out on Champions League football, the pool of targets that we're apparently waiting to become available will be dramatically diminished.
January Transfer Window
- Thread starter Alock1
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I agree in principle, but in reality there are attainable targets that would definitely improve us if we pay a bit more than we'd like to. The issues around signing Fellaini were mainly issues with identifying the target in the first place. It may prove not to be a good signing but Moyes can't be scared or hesitant to go back into the market because he's (potentially) had his fingers burnt once. We're not in a situation where we can afford to be conservative, if we miss out on Champions League football, the pool of targets that we're apparently waiting to become available will be dramatically diminished.
I agree with that, Moyes mustnt be scared, he has to do well int he transfer market, our success and his job depends on it. And Im not too bothered about overpaying a bit, the main point I was making was more about buying people who are better than who we have. I hope I am wrong but I cant see it. I just dont want to compromise on quality, Id rather we signed nobody. But yeah, if Glazer has to fork out a bit more than the going rate I wont lose much sleep over that.
We are experts in excuses whether its because there's no value or Moyes came late or its January or its the WC summer season etc. The thing is that usual suspects always manage to find the players they won and some of the deals made are an absolute bargain (ex Matic for 20-25m).
Why not admit that we're a bit, erm skint.
No doubt. But my own personal view on Moyes has been consistent from the start which is that he should get a year, and a transfer window after he has had a year, and then be judged on the season after that. So it is in his interests, if he wants to stay on the right side of me, which presumably he does, that he bucks his ideas up and gets the players we need in the summer (or now) as I will not show him any more patience beyond that time. Others may find excuses like the WC or anything but I will put it down to bad management. And I think Moyes knows he doesnt want to get on the bad side of me. There are expert posters who talk the talk, there are professor level posters who quietly talk a great deal of sense even if others dont understand what they are talking about, and are vindicated in the fullness of time. And then there are bellwether posters who speak on behalf of the masses. And I am a bellwether. (Or is it bellend, I always get those two confused.)
That's why I used the word 'apparent'. The criteria for managerial failure are arguable. The majority of sacked managers would claim they'd have gotten it right eventually if given enough time. How much time is enough time? How long is a piece of string?
But common sense dictates that David Moyes, for instance, has been a 'failure' in his United career so far - a catastrophic one. I'm saying that other top clubs would not tolerate that degree of failure for more than a season - or, in the case of many, for less. And I believe they'd be right.
We're always going to overspend irrespective if its January or Summer and fees are always going to go up to the skies. The bargains are become a rarity as the gap between bigger and smaller clubs is widening and more big clubs are relying on scouting.
If we want to be considered a big club then we should act like that even in terms of transfers.
Moyes wanted a creative midfielder of a certain weight. He ended up with Fellaini after spending the club spent nearly the entire summer bidding ridiculous bids for Fabregas. I dont believe the summer BS as much as I dont believe the January one (ideally you dont spend money in January but if you're desperate as we are then there are talent available). Its only a matter to put our hands in the pockets.
If you'd told me on July 1st that we'd have only signed Fellaini by February 1st I would have said no one can be that inept. I would not have believed it possible, given the clear need, the time available and the resources available. I still kind of don't believe it. It's almost like shock, you just have to laugh.
In terms of sheer numbers in, we've signed the fewest players in the premier league since last summer, possibly the fewest in Europe! One player into the first team. One!
Blows the mind, it really does.
In terms of sheer numbers in, we've signed the fewest players in the premier league since last summer, possibly the fewest in Europe! One player into the first team. One!
Blows the mind, it really does.
You've got it all wrong. There's no value, we have a great squad and Rio says we're finishing in the top four. All is well.
There needs to be a reality check and calmness if the top targets are not available then I'm happy to wait till the summer. Fellaini Jones Rooney and RVP are all back soon and Carrick will have had more game time. I'm in no way in favour in signing players just for the sake of it.
The other excuse that will be bandied about in the summer (if things turn out as expected) is that we cant get the targets we want because we're not in the CL.
Hopefully we can get a couple of players who are prepared to miss out CL football for one season, trusting us to get back in quickly, but we may not get exactly the players our hearts most desire. That may prove a barrier. So to some extent we may need the players we already have to dig us out of this hole.
Hopefully we can get a couple of players who are prepared to miss out CL football for one season, trusting us to get back in quickly, but we may not get exactly the players our hearts most desire. That may prove a barrier. So to some extent we may need the players we already have to dig us out of this hole.
i think there are a couple of quality players out there who would not get CL football regardless of not / joining us. That lad Raktic for instance.
Granted, if we do not qualify to the CL (and i don't think we will) it will be more difficulty to attract players who already qualified with their teams. Difficult but not impossible, we can still guarantee better wages and glamour than most of the German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Russian, French teams. And these leagues are loaded with good players.
The World Cup will of course be a problem providing that our targets participate. keep calm, there will be 3-4 national teams that will have our targets in their squads. and thinking that all of our target are going to Brazil is bit naive.
so it's not all doom and gloom.
Don't get me wrong- i think that Woodie and Moyes share blame for fecking up our summer business of 2013. That was best time to strengthen. Instead we decided to buy unicorns for laughable fees.
Been too quiet today, we've not been linked with any new players.
Yeah but most other top clubs wouldn't have a manager for 26 years. We're a unique club and I'm proud that we've given the job to a British manager who isn't a journeyman and who wants to build for many years to come. Most clubs wouldn't have given Moyes the job in the first place, right or wrong, so the comparisons pretty much end there.
Edit: I'm not actually sure why you/we're discussing this in here.
Spoke to soon, Talksport claim we're talking to the agent of Brazilian Hernanes of Lazio
If "our" targets have a great summer in Brazil then their prices would skyrocket, shouldn't we buy now the players we need to finish on the top 4?
Yes, unless of course they're not available till the summer.
It's not even really about ''overpaying'. It's about paying market rates and these fees (both transfer and wages) are figures that we have not been comfortable paying for a while. Hence why we have missed out on players like Hazard, Toure, Nasri and others.
Hazard we'd matched the asking price, he chose Chelsea. Nasri was told were to go. Toure, were we ever in for him?
Summer will be the test. There's no way anyone can justify not spending then other than to admit there's no cash
We've done it eventually anyway. £30 million for a £20 million Berbatov, £28 million for a £20 million Fellaini (lets hope...)
We do overpay for what turn out to be the wrong players. And then in between we come up with excuses why we aren't signing players, like there arent players that are better than ours, before we once again go big for another overvalued player. It seems we choose to rarely take a chance on a big transfer deal but even so manage to make plenty of poor ones.
Our transfer market performance has been awful for years. That was the one area I was hoping would improve under Moyes. And then came the summer...
Whats this talk of us going after Pedro?
Probably bullshit! Where have you heard this fella?
Pedro was talked about before the window a little but was nothing more than a stupid rumour. I think it was in one of the international breaks where there was no football. He has been very good for Barca, they wouldn't sell.
Day 18, still no sign of life……..
We simply will not finish in the top 4 without improving the team. We will lose millions not being in the Champions League. Buying now would surely be a wise investment, even if we overpay a little. It makes no sense for the club to say that we can afford not being in the Champions League.
Best Asian LB/LWB out there. Can play on the right too. Crazy stamina, ridiculous work rate. He's got great feet, loves attacking and defensively hard to beat on one on one situations.
The main problem is that he's probably too short to play in EPL. And he's right-footed. Not Moyes's type.
Too short? Evra or Scholes had half-decent careers in the Premier League. And they're not exactly giants.
Well I meant he ain't great in the air. The likes of Evra and Rafael have got a great leap while Nagatomo doesn't.
Its happened before too. I hope its untrue because I dont see him being successful in our kind of setup. We need wide players who are willing to take the initiative, have individual brilliance, beat a man etc. Pedro aint all that. Good player but not one who'd do well the way we play.
Exactly, and if we don't overpay now then we'll have to ridiculously overpay in the summer.The longer we leave it the longer it goes on and the more of a ride we'll get taken for when we eventually bring in a quality midfielder.Forget the January sales, if there is a player we want and need then pay the going rate and have done with it.We can search for bargains when we have strengthened our first eleven and squad with top class, proven talent
With the WC this year, the summer is by no means going to be easy either. It'l be late deals then too.
I need a signing now.
18th Jan, game tomorrow, game midweek, this is going to be a last day thrash around again isn't it.
We m at not even get that.
Exactly. It needs an immediate cash injection to improve the first team. We can then add the additional young developing talents once we have got this first XI up to, for me, one that is acceptable for Manchester United, because right now it isn't.
Maybe, just maybe the players themselves don't want to move in January. Ever thought of that?