James Rodriguez | joins Bayern Munich | 2 year loan

James Rodriguez - should we go for him?

  • Yes

    Votes: 404 34.6%

  • No

    Votes: 565 48.4%

  • I hate Silly Season

    Votes: 198 17.0%
  • Total voters
    1,167
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Enigma_87 said:
I agree but thought I'd be the only one :D

I was referring if they were valued at about the same. I know that Spurs would ask a lot more, just the general perception of people comparing James to say Alli.
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I'll take Alli in such case as I said, score lots of goals and has great technique and speed. Also he's English and it's hard to find any decent English players these days.

But James is more realistic option.
 
prtk0811 said:
Even more better in that case when we can manage his minutes with a new dm. Still good enough to contribute at top level and will be an asset to control the midfeild against the likes of city liv chelsea and arsenal games as well as cl games . He aint a tackler but a cdm like carrick role he can still do it very nicely , he does not need to be a physical player to do that. Carrick is not physical , never was.

Even carrick is past his prime but he steadied pogba in a mid 3 playing with him and got better out of him. Veratti is ungettable because he will be barca bound while weighlis too young right now , he can developmore before a big move and also german players dont playin england much.

you need exp at top level in big cl games , Pogba is not readyfor that level yet, you need someone to add exp in cl games having a too young midfeild does not help. Modric can still play 3-4 years. We are fighting against pep klopp pochetino conte in this league , exp is a must in a squad and modric can play deep play maker role well.
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We dont have that luxury, otherwise we might as well keep carrick for another season. We need new players that can form the core of the team and not fringe players that may not pan out or need to be replaced after 1-2 seasons.

Carrick is better built than Modric. Carrick is like 188cm 77kg while Modric is 174cm 65kg . Compared to Carrick, Luka is a paper weight. You put in front of a defence in EPL and he will likely get runover.

Yes you need experience, but that comes with exposure and not just age e.g. Mbappe is more experienced on the big stage than Defoe.

We dont lack money, and I would rather spend it on players than having the glazers siphon it. What we need is young quality players. When we have the core group sorted out, we can look to adding fringe players.
 
el3mel said:
I'll take Alli in such case as I said, score lots of goals and has great technique and speed. Also he's English and it's hard to find any decent English players these days.

But James is more realistic option.
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Fair enough. For me James, given the stage, can offer more and Jose is the type of manager that can get him to a higher level, despite Alli being younger.
 
Mainoldo said:
Or the reverse. Just because they are fast doesn't mean they lack the other two.
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That was never implied. I did point out that pace is of course an asset, however, the English game is too reliant upon it. Our teams are often given the run around in Europe, teams with nouse who cut off space for them to run into and can nullify us. The Leicester vs Atletico Madrid tie was such an embarrassment. They literally had no ideas, except to spend two whole football matches trying to 'raise the tempo', which admittedly they managed briefly in the second half of the second game. Other than that, it was hoofs into 'channels' for Jamie Vardy to run himself into fatigue, which drew huge cheers in the home tie.

Giggsy had footballing ability, which showed even when he lost his pace. Figo was a better winger though, in my opinion anyway, and had no real pace for example. For me, it isn't so much about the individual anyway, more he collective. English teams rarely seem to have much of a plan beyond 'play with tempo'. Games are 'exciting' more due to their unpredictability than the quality of the football I think.
 
Infra-red said:
Fabregas and Kroos are predominately midfield players and have been for 3+ seasons. Ozil? Lazy perhaps, slow no - he was part of the best counterattacking side in Europe for three years. Isco certainly isn't fast, neither is David Silva, nor particularly is Bernado Silva.
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Fabregas has played further up at Arsenal and Özil is the definition of slow. So because he was part of a counterattacking side, that means he's fast. Great logic.
 
Infra-red said:
Fabregas and Kroos are predominately midfield players and have been for 3+ seasons. Ozil? Lazy perhaps, slow no - he was part of the best counterattacking side in Europe for three years. Isco certainly isn't fast, neither is David Silva, nor particularly is Bernado Silva.
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If James is deemed slow, then Ozil is also slow cos James is faster than Ozil. Ozil has similar acceleration to James but a lower top speed.

What most dont realise is that since defendes have to keep an eye on the ball they tend to be slower in a counter attack than 1v1. An effective counter attack depends more on quick intelligent passing and coordination than outright pace.

At Madrid, Ozil didnt really lead the counter attck but usually instrumental in moving the ball along to the best player.
 
Infra-red said:
The ability to 'beat a man' seems to go hand-in-hand with the most commonly expressed concerns about 'pace' on this forum, which is why I mentioned it. I'd also argue that tactical and technical development in England has suffered more because of a preference for physicality rather than out-right pace, but that's a different topic altogether. Back to the list, world class attacking players with little-to-no pace. Care to venture any? In the past 12 months you might include larger #9s like Ibrahimovic and Dzeko and in terms of attacking midfielders... perhaps Eriksen.
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The average attacker probably has decent/average pace. What's the point of naming the ones with little or no pace? When I hear people raving about players with pace I think of those who are really fast not every attacker out there who has the ability to run.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
James Rodriguez is not a young quality player? I'm curious to hear your explanation as to how he is a "fringe player"
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The 'not young' and 'fringe' was in reference to Modric as he can longer cope with a full season schedule of a top club. Any player that cannot be counted on to play all games is a fringe player.

22-26 is young in football, as they are just coming into what is deemed their peak window and you expect to get 5-10yrs of service.James is 25yrs so he is young.

It varies with position, but in general, U21 is teenage potential, 22-26 is young, 27-32 is peak window, 33+ is a senior citizen.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
If James is deemed slow, then Ozil is also slow cos James is faster than Ozil. Ozil has similar acceleration to James but a lower top speed.

What most dont realise is that since defendes have to keep an eye on the ball they tend to be slower in a counter attack than 1v1. An effective counter attack depends more on quick intelligent passing and coordination than outright pace.

At Madrid, Ozil didnt really lead the counter attck but usually instrumental in moving the ball along to the best player.
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Exactly, just as I explained above, you need much more than just pace to counter successfuly. Look at how much pace we've had this season, especially after Zlatan's injury. So where are all those deadly counters?
 
cheeky_backheel said:
he 'not young' and 'fringe' was in reference to Modric as he can longer cope with a full season schedule of a top club. Any player that cannot be counted on to play all games is a fringe player.
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By counted on to play all games you mean James? Is it injuries? Because as far as I know, his lack of minutes is attributed to coaches going with options that are a better fit.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
By counted on to play all games you mean James? Is it injuries? Because as far as I know, his lack of minutes is attributed to coaches going with options that are a better fit.
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MODRIC!!!! somebody suggested we get modric and I disagreed cos I think we should be getting young players that can be part of the core long term, and not a 31yr old Modric who is close to retirement.
 
Janson said:
Fabregas has played further up at Arsenal and Özil is the definition of slow. So because he was part of a counterattacking side, that means he's fast. Great logic.
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Fabregas hasn't played for Arsenal for 6 years. Ozil is not the 'definition of slow' and I was not making a logical inference.

cheeky_backheel said:
If James is deemed slow, then Ozil is also slow cos James is faster than Ozil. Ozil has similar acceleration to James but a lower top speed.

What most dont realise is that since defendes have to keep an eye on the ball they tend to be slower in a counter attack than 1v1. An effective counter attack depends more on quick intelligent passing and coordination than outright pace.

At Madrid, Ozil didnt really lead the counter attck but usually instrumental in moving the ball along to the best player.
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Intelligent movement/positioning are obviously prerequisites for good transitions when counterattacking, but Ozil also showed himself to be more than quick of mind during some of those incredible counterattacking goals circa 2010-13.
Incidentally, I personally would not discount James on the basis of his pace (or lack thereof); ideally you obviously want to find a balance in the side between physical and technical characteristics.

Janson said:
The average attacker probably has decent/average pace. What's the point of naming the ones with little or no pace? When I hear people raving about players with pace I think of those who are really fast not every attacker out there who has the ability to run.
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The point is that posters continue to reference Musa, Zaha and Adama Traore as though they are knock-down arguments against those other posters who 'obsess' about pace, when in fact they are completely irrelevant.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
MODRIC!!!! somebody suggested we get modric and I disagreed cos I think we should be getting young players that can be part of the core long term, and not a 31yr old Modric who is close to retirement.
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Oh. My fault, well I still disagree. Modric is ridiculously good and worth the fee at any age really. He would walk onto this team and instantly change us. How do you know he can't sustain himself for a full season here? He has no serious injury record that I know of and its not his fault that Real Madrid constantly rotate their lineup.

Plus Scholes, Lampard, and Gerrard all retired years much later than that.
 
For me football iq>skills&technique>physical abilities

If you cannot make the correct decision on and off the ball, the rest is moot.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Oh. My fault, well I still disagree. Modric is ridiculously good and worth the fee at any age really. He would walk onto this team and instantly change us. How do you know he can't sustain himself for a full season here? He has no serious injury record that I know of and its not his fault that Real Madrid constantly rotate their lineup.
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Cos they are already limiting him to about 40 games at Madrid.

The EPL has more games, less rest, and is more physically demanding. As he gets older, his ability to cope will also worsen. We have already played 50+ matches this season.
 
James is essentially a better version of Eriksen, in that he does all the things that make eriksen one of the PL's best players, better than Eriksen

Make of that what you will...
 
£50m is the asking price. A bit rich. £35-£38 would be a fair price for a player they don't want and which we don't really need.
 
So this is starting to look like it's genuinely on. While I have my reservations about signing another #10, I'd still argue he's better than what we already have, and I'd also argue that if we're in for him (or at least if we sign him) then that probably means the Griezmann deal is off, in which case I'd happily have James along. I've always been a fan, and I reckon he could really flourish as the main man.
 
I can't believe how many folks on here are turning up their noses at a player of his quality, James is a cracking player. He has performed well wherever he has gone, at age of 25 he has been a success in three different leagues in Portugal, France and Spain. Yes, I don't see him as a failure at Real, people forget how good his debut season was where he was played as a 10. After Ancelotti went, he has struggled because Madrid have adopted to a different system which gives them more balance in form of 433. He is not a better CM than either of Modric or Kroos nor is he a better winger than Ronaldo or Bale, plus he had to contend with Isco for game time. To suggest him as a 'Madrid castoff' is laughable, was Alexis Sanchez a Barca reject too? Ultimately he knew better, he knew he wasn't a better CF than Suarez nor was he a better winger than Neymar or Messi. There is no shame in leaving when you have that much quality to compete with and everyone would agree that Sanchez has been a major success in England.

Despite new managers coming in and changing the formation, his numbers are very good. Last season he managed 34 appearances (21 being starts) and scored 12 goals with 9 assists. This season he has managed 33 appearances (20 starts) and scored 11 goals with 12 assists. This is in line with his record of 1 goal in every 3 appearances throughout his entire career. If we sign him, we are looking at him adding 15 to 20 goals from his position along with loads of assists. James is everything we lack in attack right now, (contrary to the popular opinion on this forum, I believe we have enough pace in the side. What we lack is brains in the attack which he would provide) He is very direct in his play which would help speed up our hilariously slow transition in attack, can score variety of goals, is an amazing crosser of the ball and is superb on set-pieces.

What is not to like? There are lot who prefer Bernardo Silva over him, I wonder why (another flavor of the month?) He makes more passes than James and is a better dribbler but he is no where as decisive or productive in final third. Last season he scored 8 goals and got 1 solitary assist in 48 appearances, this season in an ultra attacking Monaco side he has slightly better numbers with 4 goals and 10 assists in 49 appearances. He is a different player of course but I would argue we need a player in mould of Sneijder who is direct and scores lots of goals and assists (like James) than a player like David Silva who would run the show (like Bernardo Silva). Also, it is not like James is a worse passer of the ball than Bernardo or he is less likely to see an opening in final third. They are at a similar level when it comes to passing and James trumps him at everything else.

We need to get him signed, he is everything we lack in attack. To those who are concerned about his attitude need not to worry as Mourinho can handle personalities like him.
 
I was against if, then I realized we need quality period. Sixth in the league, and we are hanging onto Europa to get into CL. I don't care who we get in any position as long as they are better.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
Cos they are already limiting him to about 40 games at Madrid.

The EPL has more games, less rest, and is more physically demanding. As he gets older, his ability to cope will also worsen. We have already played 50+ matches this season.
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Oh please, just stop it. He made the league his own once already, if he came back he would instantly be one of if not the best midfielder here.
 
Kush said:
I can't believe how many folks on here are turning up their noses at a player of his quality, James is a cracking player. He has performed well wherever he has gone, at age of 25 he has been a success in three different leagues in Portugal, France and Spain. Yes, I don't see him as a failure at Real, people forget how good his debut season was where he was played as a 10. After Ancelotti went, he has struggled because Madrid have adopted to a different system which gives them more balance in form of 433. He is not a better CM than either of Modric or Kroos nor is he a better winger than Ronaldo or Bale, plus he had to contend with Isco for game time. To suggest him as a 'Madrid castoff' is laughable, was Alexis Sanchez a Barca reject too? Ultimately he knew better, he knew he wasn't a better CF than Suarez nor was he a better winger than Neymar or Messi. There is no shame in leaving when you have that much quality to compete with and everyone would agree that Sanchez has been a major success in England.

Despite new managers coming in and changing the formation, his numbers are very good. Last season he managed 34 appearances (21 being starts) and scored 12 goals with 9 assists. This season he has managed 33 appearances (20 starts) and scored 11 goals with 12 assists. This is in line with his record of 1 goal in every 3 appearances throughout his entire career. If we sign him, we are looking at him adding 15 to 20 goals from his position along with loads of assists. James is everything we lack in attack right now, (contrary to the popular opinion on this forum, I believe we have enough pace in the side. What we lack is brains in the attack which he would provide) He is very direct in his play which would help speed up our hilariously slow transition in attack, can score variety of goals, is an amazing crosser of the ball and is superb on set-pieces.

What is not to like? There are lot who prefer Bernardo Silva over him, I wonder why (another flavor of the month?) He makes more passes than James and is a better dribbler but he is no where as decisive or productive in final third. Last season he scored 8 goals and got 1 solitary assist in 48 appearances, this season in an ultra attacking Monaco side he has slightly better numbers with 4 goals and 10 assists in 49 appearances. He is a different player of course but I would argue we need a player in mould of Sneijder who is direct and scores lots of goals and assists (like James) than a player like David Silva who would run the show (like Bernardo Silva). Also, it is not like James is a worse passer of the ball than Bernardo or he is less likely to see an opening in final third. They are at a similar level when it comes to passing and James trumps him at everything else.

We need to get him signed, he is everything we lack in attack. To those who are concerned about his attitude need not to worry as Mourinho can handle personalities like him.
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Problem with signing him isn't his ability, he is a decent player but is he really that much better than mkhi or mata, more importantly what is the logic in spending 50 mn on a player who is most effective in areas of the pitch that we hoped pogba will be, why would we spend 100mn on pogba and then play him in a role that does not optimally utilise his talent. With pogba in the team playing a 10 is stupid as it will only impede pogba, and james can't play on the wing.

James is a good player but is he good enough for us to use a formation that won't get best out of pogba and will most likely end our pursuit of Griezmann.
 
Noir said:
Oh please, just stop it. He made the league his own once already, if he came back he would instantly be one of if not the best midfielder here.
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He was younger. Now he's entering his 32. Players change with age.
 
prtk0811 said:
United have had pace on the wings throughout our history. This league demands pace to get in behind defenses.
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Beckham was hardly the fastest, but he played a key part in our attacking raids (including our counter-attacks). There is more than pure pace required for quick attacking play. Movement and vision are just as, if not more, important.

In saying that, James isn't exactly my number 1 choice either. More because of all the rumours of him being lazy behind the scenes, leading me to doubt his mentality.
 
Amazing how far transfer fees have come just in the last 5 years, but go back 8 and it's unrecognisable. 60m used to get you the unsellable, e.g. Kaka.
 
Is he a midfielder or an AM? I was under the impression that he is more like Mata, but most of his appearances this season has been as a CM or CMR in the position where Herrera plays.

If he is being brought as a CM then it makes sense because we need better technical players in our midfield.
 
BigCaine said:
Problem with signing him isn't his ability, he is a decent player but is he really that much better than mkhi or mata, more importantly what is the logic in spending 50 mn on a player who is most effective in areas of the pitch that we hoped pogba will be, why would we spend 100mn on pogba and then play him in a role that does not optimally utilise his talent. With pogba in the team playing a 10 is stupid as it will only impede pogba, and james can't play on the wing.

James is a good player but is he good enough for us to use a formation that won't get best out of pogba and will most likely end our pursuit of Griezmann.
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As you pointed out United already got an abundance of players (Mkhi, Mata, Pogba) that can play the No. 10 role on a fairly high level, with one of them being the club's record signing. Other positions in the team need to be focused on in the upcoming transfer window, like a LB, DM, a CF to replace Ibrahimovic (or give Martial/Rashford a shot there) and a pacey winger or two that can play on either side. Lingard and Young are not the quality United needs on the wings. It wouldn't hurt to upgrade on Smalling/Jones as well.

Searching twitter a little yesterday I saw rumors of James being linked with a move to Bayern, saying Ancelotti wants him as his creator behind Lewandowski. Those date back to the middle of March or so. Soon after that the James to United story was all over social media with several english journalists now claiming United to not be interested. It's pure speculation but to me it looks like Bayern is playing hardball trying to pay the lowest fee possible, with no other club being truly interested which lead to Real offering James to United for their desired asking price while informing their mouth pieces of United's supposed interest to put pressure on Bayern.
And there's on more thing. Usually United wouln't need to react in such a case. Just declining the offer would be enough. The only reason for United to inform journos of them not being interested in James would be if they were in pursuit of another player for a similar position and they wanted to show him that he's definitely their only target which gets my hopes up for a Griezmann deal. :drool:
 
James Ducker says this is nonsense and that we're not even interested in James. Says Madrid are desperate to sell so they're putting stories in the press.

This is the most logical situation to me, we keep being told the transfer makes sense because United are trying to land a superstar, but it makes no sense because he's not that marketable of a player. Maybe it's because I really don't want us to sign him but I can't see it happening.
 
SV_Planegg said:
As you pointed out United already got an abundance of players (Mkhi, Mata, Pogba) that can play the No. 10 role on a fairly high level, with one of them being the club's record signing.
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Pogba? I guess you weren't watching when Jose tried pushing Pogba forwards and playing him in that position. Disaster is an understatement. He's not made for that role - not yet, at least. And I don't think any of his managers have seen him playing there. His skill-set is utilized far better further back
Mkhi - best when playing wide. Had his best season even in Germany when playing wide. I think most United fans see him as an option for #10 just because we're so starved of actual quality in that position and because anyone would be better than Lingard...
Mata - he's never shone for a top team in that role. I don't think he has the courage to play there. There's a reason why every manager has pushed him wide despite his clear lack of pace.
 
I'm watched a bit more of him lately, and a few "highlight reels" (I know, next to useless), and I'm feeling less negative about buying him.

He's not fast, but he does have quick feet - quicker than any in our squad - he can make space for himself without resorting to sprinting. He has a great weight of pass and good ability to see a pass, and he seems to be a good dead ball player (and with one of those, who knows where we might have been this season).

If Jose is determined to stick with a 2 man midfield then he's the best 10 we'll find.
 
midnightmare said:
Pogba? I guess you weren't watching when Jose tried pushing Pogba forwards and playing him in that position. Disaster is an understatement. He's not made for that role - not yet, at least. And I don't think any of his managers have seen him playing there. His skill-set is utilized far better further back
Mkhi - best when playing wide. Had his best season even in Germany when playing wide. I think most United fans see him as an option for #10 just because we're so starved of actual quality in that position and because anyone would be better than Lingard...
Mata - he's never shone for a top team in that role. I don't think he has the courage to play there. There's a reason why every manager has pushed him wide despite his clear lack of pace.
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Thanks for pointing that out. What some don't know is Allegri tried to use Pogba as a number 10 during start of the previous season and it was a disaster , Juve perfomance dropped heavily and they were near relegation positions till Allegri tweaked his formation to use Paul in his correct place and they go on a winning run to win the league.

Pogba isn't as defensive minded to play deep, but also not suited for a very forward position as number 10 as he's not quick minded but loves to stop on the ball and choose what he'll do with it. CM his position.

Mata and Mikhi with all my respect for them, can't provide the solutions in number 10 James can provide. It's amazing with our lack of goals people are complaining about us wanting to sign a player that will provide solutions to score we don't have in the current team thus the predictability of our play. When Pogba is absent we have zero creativity even with Mikhi and Mata playing.
 
giorno said:
James is essentially a better version of Eriksen, in that he does all the things that make eriksen one of the PL's best players, better than Eriksen

Make of that what you will...
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Even if he wasn't better and was on par we should be biting the hand off Madrid. Eriksen is a top player. I cant say I know a whole lot about James other than the average person so I wont even contribute to any debates. You're a Madrid fan, would you like to keep hold of him?
 
El Zoido said:
James Ducker says this is nonsense and that we're not even interested in James. Says Madrid are desperate to sell so they're putting stories in the press.

This is the most logical situation to me, we keep being told the transfer makes sense because United are trying to land a superstar, but it makes no sense because he's not that marketable of a player. Maybe it's because I really don't want us to sign him but I can't see it happening.
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Even I was thinking the same thing. Players and clubs always use United to get better contracts or to create transfer competition for a player. I also think United are playing into this to create a smokescreen and sign some other player. If James is worth 75m then De Gea should be worth at least 100m.
 
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