You have a terrible imagination
James Rodriguez | joins Bayern Munich | 2 year loan
- Thread starter GM K
- Start date
- Status
You have a terrible imagination
Mega money signing? How do you figure that? If he's coming it will be £40 million tops. Which is not a lot anymore.
Then where does Herrera go, he needs to play too. A midfield 3 is better Pogba - Herrera with a defensive mid would be better. So I don't see where James would fit in then.
Would prefer us going for Mahrez.
Mourinho will drop any player that he thinks needs to be dropped in his game plan. You can whine and get sold, but he would still drop you. That being said, I doubt James (or most players) will have a problem with the occasional benching for tactical reasons and really dont see him as the whining type. His problem at Real is totally different and I dont expect a player to be happy sitting on the bench behind players of lesser quality for non-football reasons.
Griezmann and Rashfordbehind a CF will not work as it would leave our midfield exposed. The attack would lack creativity in the final 3rd (like we have this season) and dont have the great players to get wins out of nothing (the luxury Madrid has). Pogba would be the only creative force and that is not his strong point. We would have to resort to sitting deep and hitting teams on the counter which would fail against the weaker teams. Mourinho is almost certain never to field such a front consistently.
James is not fast enough to play on the flank effectively, but he is not some slow coach. He is fast enough to play in the middle where space is more limited and pace rendered useless (see Silva against Juve). Ozil and David Silva are not the fastest CAMs around and they have coped well enough. For the role of a #10, James is one of the best we can get.
Silva can potentially be an upgrade on Mkhi, but there is a high degree of uncertainty around it. Mkhi is very good player but needs a better player for him to play off. He is also new to the EPL and Mourinho. If we do get the needed #10 and DM, I expect Mkhi will perform much better next season which is why I think the Silva gamble is not worth it this point, particularly when Silva is unlikely to come cheap.
With or without James, as long as Mourinho remains coach, Herrera will likely spend most of next season on the bench. The earlier fans accept this the earlier they would get over it. Mourinho likes his 4-2-3-1 and there is likely no starting spot for Herrera in it.
It again depends on the formation. If Mourinho wants to play in a 4231 next season, Herrera may well be a player that rotates with either Pogba or the CDM. You limit Herrera a lot when he is expected to sit back and protect the back four, as that's not really his game. I personally think we play better in a midfield 3, but then again it depends on who we bring in this summer and what Mourinho ultimately wants from the team.
I somehow would love a book full of long Fontaine-essays like thisSort of like a football essay bible. Book of Fontaine 7:1
IT WOULD BECOME AN INTER
INTER
INTER
INTERNATION
INTERNATIONAL
INTERNATIONAL BESTSELLER
Lingard?
Ya know what!! I think we'd be insane not to go for Mahrez.
Could be
Bench a player of the season for a Madrid cast out with a lower workrate?
Yes- similar to how he benched and sold a recent 2x club player of the year in Mata for a player less fancied by the fans and went on to win the PL.Bench a player of the season for a Madrid cast out with a lower workrate?
Mourinho's resume is enough proof that, when it comes to player selection, he knows what he is doing more than the average fan on a forum.
IT WOULD BECOME AN INTER
INTER
INTER
INTERNATION
INTERNATIONAL
INTERNATIONAL BESTSELLER
Chapters:"JAMES. FAR SUPERIOR"
"BARCELONA - A DISGUSTING ORGANISATION"
"THE CRUCIFIXION OF DANI ALVES"
"ARGENTINA"
"RIVALDO"
"JAMES. FAR SUPERIOR"
"BARCELONA - A DISGUSTING ORGANISATION"
"THE CRUCIFIXION OF DANI ALVES"
"ARGENTINA"
"RIVALDO"
James isn't making the Madrid team becasue he's not as good as any of the front 3 and not as good as Modric or Isco in the 3 midfield roles, so if he can't accept being benched for them I don't see him being fine with being benched for Rashford and Mkhi, or fecking Lingard who provides the workrate in big matches that James doesn't.
That's simply not true, Pogba has created loads of chances this season, Herrera is in double figures for assists while constantly having to play as the DM because Carrick can only play sporadically and Fellaini and Pogba are not good defensively. The big problem is that Mkhi, Martial and Rashford have missed stacks of chances, if we have a more agile and mobile #9 like Morata or Belotti for Griezmann and Rashford to play off there'd be plenty for Pogba and Herrera to feed while the DM sat behind them.
James playing in the middle just clogs up Pogba's space and and forces him to play more restrained because James wont bother dropping in to help defensively if Pogba goes beyond him. once he moves out wide for the big game formation he becomes a waste of space.
That's just it, we don't need a #10, it's a luxury role that none of the big teams waste time with, their creative forwards come off the wing, and Mkhi played his best ever season at Dortmund with no #10 in the side.
Then frankly I'd rather Mourinho fecked off, he spunked £89M on a player only to want to play him out of position, to then go and spend another £50M on a luxury player who he has to shunt out of position every time we play a good team, it's ridiculous.
Last edited:
"JAMES. FAR SUPERIOR"
"BARCELONA - A DISGUSTING ORGANISATION"
"THE CRUCIFIXION OF DANI ALVES"
"ARGENTINA"
"RIVALDO"
Do you enjoy being so pedantic or is it a natural trait of yours?
The point I'm trying to make is that it would be a complete waste of our resources because he's last kind of player we need - whether you think £40 million is expensive or not (it is, we've only ever signed two or three more expensive players).
So we're complaining all the season for lack of goals and we then refuse to sign a player who can score and assist ? and the reason for this is that he's not pacey ?
Well, its more that he overall offers something that we sort of have already in Mkhi and Mata if you ask me. Better off spending 40m in other places.
Look, I love Mata and Mikhi, but James is better than both by a mile especially in an attributes we really lack. Mata is creative in his passes and movements, and Mikhi has nice dribbles and throughs. James is all these + great shooter and score loads of goals. He'll be upgrade on both.
Far superior mate
Even the devil wouldnt care for this nonsense you are spouting
In other words your James/4-2-3-1 obsession has hit a brick wall of facts so you have moved to personal insults, no worries.
Agree with the general consensus. Summed up a lot of my own worries on how James signing could prove problematic.
Did someone really just say James would be benched for Lingard?
We're hitting cognitive dissonance levels even Clinton supporters didn't reach
We're hitting cognitive dissonance levels even Clinton supporters didn't reach
No, cheeky backheel claimed he'd be benched if Jose needed to for big game tactics and would accept it, I said he wouldn't be benched for the good of the team, and was saying that if he can't accept being benched for the top players at Madrid how would he accept being benched for Lingard on the wing in a big game because Jose needs his workrate and defensive cover.
Since people seem to assume we're signing I guess the reports were reliable?
"JAMES. FAR SUPERIOR"
"BARCELONA - A DISGUSTING ORGANISATION"
"THE CRUCIFIXION OF DANI ALVES"
"ARGENTINA"
"RIVALDO"
It was not meant to be a personal insult but rather an evaluaytion of your post. If you took as such, they you have my apolifies.
Since you want a more detailed response, I will try to oblige
James did not start his career at Madrid on the bench. In his first season, James was a regular starter, along side CR, Benzema, Bale, Modric and Kroos with kroos being the DM. That lineup was dictated by the need for Ancelotti to start all the stars players. James played very well and was voted best midfielder in la liga. But the defensive weakness was there and the absence of Modric made the team weaker. The team failed to win anything and Ancelotti was fired.
Exit Ancelotti, enter the fat waiter. James got off to bad start with Benitez who asked him to return early despite the club having extended his holidays due to the copa america. Then came the accusation of being overweight which was neither here no there. Anyways Benitez soon got fired and Zidane was brought on.
With the return of Casemiro from loan, Madrid had a true DM which meant only 5 of the 6 star players can be on the field. Zidane opted to drop James and adopted a 4-3-3 (likely cos some player are easier to sacrifice than others). This decision suited those star players but not the rest of the squad imo, and has left a lot of the other players playing out of position e.g. James and Isco at CM and Kovacic even at DM. Unfortunately that is not James best position and his performance has suffered. The formation has seen lesser players like Vasquez and Asensio start ahead of him as they are more suited to those wide spots than James but that does not lessen his quality as a player. To me, a 4-2-3-1 made better use of the squad. I dont see the point of a formation that is built around players that are performing poorly, persistently out injured and/or not at the desired level.
But then its better to be lucky than to be good and Zidane has been lucky which is why he is enroute to his second CL final but still struggling to win la liga.
Pogba does not create chances at the rate needed. Mata has created the most chances at 2.57 per 90min while Pogba is 1.93 and Herrera is 1.37. To compare, Eriksen is 3.11, Ozil is 2.8, David silva 2.79 and De Bruyne 3.17. Please note, chances created includes both assists and key passes that created a scoring opportunity - the accuracy or conversion rate of the strikers are thus irrelevant.
This is simply a figment of your imagination. In a game of football, the team is organized by the manager and everyone is meant to play their role. There is no clogging of space. At chelsea, Cesc who is more attack minded than Pogba was successful playing along side Oscar, and given that James has spent most of this season playing out of position as a CM, there nothing to say he cannot even cover decently enough in that situation. Bottom line, your fear is unfounded. Each of Pogba and James are top level players that you cannot presume will fail to understand basic tactics used even in high school football.
Mkhi had his best season playing on the right flank with kagawa as the #10 in a 4-2-3-1. Mourinho will play 4-2-3-1 and Mata is the only #10 we currently have but he is not good enough. We need a #10 and we will get him this summer.
It is impossible to take your opinion over Mourinho and historical evidence. Mourinho's resume earns him the benefit of doubt when it comes to team setup, formation and tactics. You can knock him for his attitude, petulancy and off the pitch antics, but there are few who are at his level when it comes to what happens on the pitch. Prior to Chelsea, Cesc had not played in a dual pivot, and many felt he couldnt, but Mourinho used him in that role successfully and won the PL
He has earned the right to setup his team as he deems fit and his achievements show that he is right more often than he is wrong. As long as the boad are willing to bank roll his signings I dont see what your problem is, after all, its his job on the line not yours.
This just reads like a laundry list of excuses for a player you clearly have a great fondness for, I mean this is beyond just discussing football and formations, you're clearly a fan of this guy and thus wont hear of anything being his fault. I don't think he's better than Asensio and clearly neither does Zidane, and he's not good enough to displace either Modric or Kroos in midfield and when one is out Isco gets the nod before him, just as Asensio and Vazquez do wide.
It's not a coincidence that Zidane removes James from the starting line-up and is on the brink of back to back CL's and a La Liga title, now you later on here tell me that I shouldn't question Mourinho, well if you think Zidane is purely lucky then I will just stick to my view that Jose is wrong when it comes to wasting money on Pogba if he tries to force him into being a full CM.
No, their conversion rate matters, I've watched every game this season and I know for a fact we have created enough chances even with Herrera stuck deeper most of the time due to having no proper DM, it doesn't matter if they create as many chances as the 2 you listed, they have created more than enough for us to win the bulk of those games we drew. To try and suggest that the failure of our forwards to convert chances isn't the reason we are not comfortably in the top 4 is flat out dishonest IMO.
It's not a figment of my imagination, Oscar was a workhorse not a luxury player like James, that was why Jose liked him at #10 and was comfortable fielding a defensive liability like Fabregas as a CM against shite teams. I've watched James play plenty of times, if he's on then he will occupy the space behind the striker most of the time, he's not going to make runs to free up space for Pogba and he sure as feck isn't going to drop in and help the team when we don't have the ball, thus it chains Pogba to having to play within himself. Even if we buy this #10 you are obsessed with us using, one that doesn't do any work for the team is the opposite of the way Mourinho outlines his view of the position.
Castro and Gundogan were in that midfield with Weigl just as often as Kagawa was, so no, that wasn't how they played all of the time, a lot of the time it was 4-3-3 with Weigl as the #6 and Gundogan and Castro as #8's.
Mourinho has come off back to back seasons of failure, one where he oversaw the worst title defense since Moyes and another where we play a cowardly back 6 formation anytime we play a good team and are currently sitting in 6th behind a bottling Arsenal side and a shit Liverpool side, so forgive me if I am not interested in what he did at either Chelsea or Real Madrid, the way his Chelsea team played was one of the reasons I didn't want him here, that Fabregas double pivot shit came at the expense of playing a defensive winger and a defensive #10 to compensate and in the end driving their best attacking player to the point of losing his ability to perform.
Now I've backed Jose all season, my problem is that he's not earned shit in my eyes, I care about only Manchester United, not Jose and his whims, same as I don't get these player threads moaning about player X not being treat right by the club. Basically anyone who has watched Pogba and James play knows it's a stupid idea to put them both in the same team, I don't care what the person doing it has won in the past. A lot of problems have come from our illogical buying, first Moyes bought Mata but had no idea what to do with him, then LvG bought Di Maria, a player everyone knew was a maverick, and then was somehow shocked when he couldn't perform in his rigid system. Now we've got Jose spending a world record on Pogba, and if he buys smartly this summer to maximize his potential then he'll be a great buy, but doing what you want Jose to do with him is just a recipe for more of the same, we need to stop buying players without intending to use them in the position that made them into top players to begin with.
I try to be as objective as possible when it comes to players, (as I usually dont know them personally) and even for a cvnt like Xavi, I would still admit his quality. I have no particular fondness for James, and actually felt he was another toy signing of Perez like Bale was. That does not make him any lesser of a player. Also I pointed out that his poor suitability to the available positions is what has kept him from getting more minutes. What I disagree with is the notion that he is not getting minutes cos there are better players ahead of him when said out of the context of the formation at Madrid. If Mourinho was known to play 4-3-3 as his base formation, then James would be a waste, but as #10 in a 4-2-3-1 he is one of the best options
James is not the only player that is on the bench that I would like to see on the field at Madrid. Isco, Morata and Kovacic are also affected, and, the fact that the team lacks a backup DM for Casemiro makes all the attack minded signing even less palatable. But that is what you get with Perez, who will sell Makele to buy Beckham and then ask the coach to play Beckham as a DM (which they almost got away with and even came close to winning the treble).
As for Zidane, he has the best squad at his disposal right know, and besides Bale has been quite lucky with injuries. I cant remember another team who had a bench that could likely beat half of the team in la liga. His blunder against Barca has put the liga back into play when a simple draw would have almost sealed it. I take his results in the context of the players available to him and I am not impressed.
Why would it matter when it is clear our midfielders are not creating enough when compared to the competition. This does not mean we dont have a conversion problem but each should be fixed independent of the other. Converting more of the same chances will lead to more goals, as will having more chances at the same conversion rate. Right now we are not creating enough nor converting at a high enough rate. We need to fix both to truly move up to the next level. A player like James would help with both but you would rather we continue as is?
It is a figment of your imagination, cos the problem does not exist as they are yet to play together. The 4-2-3-1 is a very common system deployed at various levels of football, but, without any evidence, you claim that it would not work with two top players. Until you provide some evidence, its just your imagination. Mourinho likes his 4-2-3-1 and he will get a #10, be it James or another.
They played the 4-3-3 against stronger opposition in which they became more defensive, while the 4-2-3-1 was used against weaker opposition. In both systems, Mkhi was on the right flank.
For frequency of the formation, of their 34 bundesliga games, Mkhi started 28, Kagawa 26, Weigl 25, Gundogan 22 and Castro 16, keeping in mind that Gundogan missed several games from injury. Data supports that 4-2-3-1 was their base formation used for about 80% of their games (based on how often Kagawa started).
In the Chelsea case, whatever the reason for the bad season, it cannot be attributed to the formation or tactics when same won them the league the previous season. It is not new to see player stop putting in the effort simply to force out a less popular manager - Ranieri is the most recent example, while Benitez has had the fortune of experiencing on multiple occasions.
As for the current season, the team was doing well and playing well until the suspension, fatigue and injury started to hit. Add the lack of quality depth in the squad and I think we were lucky to be where we are. Mourinho is a pragmatist and will do whatever he thinks will get him the desired result given the players at his disposal. He can get more out of defensive players but that has never been his strong point on the offensive end. The attacking quality of a Mourinho team depends heavily on the attacking talent at his disposal.
I have watched both players play in different teams (and have probably seen more football games than 90% of fans would watch in their lifetime) and from all I can see, both players are ideal for a 4-2-3-1.
United fan always get touchy when it comes to Di Maria but for me the fault primarily lied with LvG and whoever sanctioned the transfer. Di Maria is a winger - has been and will always be. He was at Madrid and at Benfica. There was no way Di Maria would have been successful in an LvG system, in which players are moved around willy-nilly. In fact Di Maria would have probably been great under Moyes. To me it had less to do with the club but more to do with a player-coach mismatch. The unusual part was that you tend to see it more with inherited players not with new transfers.
Mourinho is a more conventional coach in terms of players and usually leaves behind a great core of players for his successors. I doubt we will see much of bad player buys under Mourinho but we are likely to overpay for a few. Mourinho is usually stubborn about players he wants and expects the club to do whatever is needed to get him said player. Mourinho is simply not a bargain hunter and will likely start sulking if he doesnt get his way.
If Mourinho truly wants James, then it is more likly thaan not that he would fit the system Mourinho has in mind.
About the only thing we agree on is that Xavi is a cnut, I can't see any point in dragging this part out further as clearly you think James is a much better player than I do, so we might as well just leave that you feel Zidane and the system are too blame, and I'll just stick with my view that he's not good enough to force his way into any role in that team, even when they used the floating role in the semi with Bale out, it was Isco that got the nod.
They are creating enough, and if we had better movement up top there'd be even more chances, the forward line has been our issue all season, static, one dimensional and lacking in composure. I'd rather build a complete team that controls a match than worry about measuring stats with other teams players.
Ok then, well I'll call it an educated opinion on watching both Pogba and James playing many, many games of football, you don't need to grab hold of an electric fence to know the result will hurt.
Data supports, man.
Ok, I actually watched them most weekends and even with Kagawa on it was far from a traditional rigid Jose 4-2-3-1.That Chelsea team became dreary as shit by the second half of the season, a miserable side to watch that was clearly unbalanced due to the way it was set up, the fall off the following season was because they had a bunch of players unhappy due to being asked to play in a way that wasn't best for them, unless you think they were just mad at Mourinho for no reason, the way they turned on him didn't happen for no reason.
I just don't agree with any of this, the squad is not amazing but it's deeper and superior to the dreck Liverpool and Arsenal have as squad depth, and I personally think we stopped playing good football just after Christmas, it's been a grind for months now bar the odd game here and there. As for Jose needing top attacking players, that sounds eerily similar to LvG, but I do think the way we have gotten more and more negative as the season has gone on is down to the fact he doesn't trust the attackers to get the job done, given their frequent failures to do so.
Well I am not looking to measure football watching stats with you, I usually watch 5 or 6 games each weekend as well as any mid-week matches, Juve, Real and Dortmund are the 3 teams I watch most weekends outside of United, then the others I vary up, although this season Monaco have been on my weekly list more than Juve as Serie A is a one team league right now and Monaco play the best football in Europe. Anyway I say this to say that I don't know how you can feel that way when the best football of both players careers have come in different systems, Pogba thrives in a 3 man midfield where he has 2 more defensive players in with him, and James thrives playing as a #10 with 2 holding CM's behind him, like Sanchez and Aguilar for Colombia, yet you want to put a defensively poor CM in with the lazierst #10 this side of Ozil.
Of course it was LvG's fault, just like it was Moyes with Mata and it will be Jose's if he buys James, we need to rein our managers in and stop them pissing our money away on illogical fits.
Well then he'll fullfill the 3 year cycle most expect from him, even those that really love Jose admitted he needed to change to succeed at United.
He's more one-footed than Valencia.
Yes, the only time he uses his right leg is likely only when climbing stairs. But so is Messi, Robben, Suker, Rivaldo and several other players.
I like (even if only partially) two-footed players particularly in front of goal (saves the need for a y-turn), but so many have gotten away with "playing on one-leg" it renders it moot.
Not really.
An unnamed Colombian radio station?
United were linked to him heavily even last season. With the money we have, the lazy thing to do is to link us with big name signings. Especially South American ones.
I very much doubt he's coming here, and won't be much of a miss either.
Under Jose's initial plan, Rooney is supposed to be United's 2nd striker. So he had Zlatan, Rooney and Rashford as a back up but with Rashford al
Of all the comments about James on this thread, this seems to be the one that will ultimately matter despite our different preferences.
Jose is a big fan of the classical trequartista. You only need to read his comments about the number 10. That's why he did everything to get Sneijder at Inter and once he did, he got his team playing the way he wanted. James is closer to Sneijder than Mata or Mikhi in terms of taking set pieces, shooting from long range, scoring, passing and even influencing play. And - surprise, surprise, - like Sneijder, James is another well acclaimed talent who went to Madrid, got frustrated while there and became added to their get-rid-of-them list. Surely, Jose must see the Sneijder similarities.
That Jose wants him at United, especially if there is no better option available, won't surprise me at all. And if the manager wants him, we will likely be seeing him at United next season.
Is there any suggestion that Jose wants him other these media reports?
Jose has used different systems wherever he has been. Arguably his best side ever played a 4-3-3. He is not a slave to tactical dogma like some managers.
His plans are usually well reflected by his second season, by which time he usually has most of his core players.
Initially at Porto , Chelsea and first season at Inter, he has used different variations of 4-3-3. Since his second season at Inter, he has relied on a 4-2-3-1 as his base formation with a 4-3-3 as backup when he desired a more defensive midfield.
The players on the roster, and rumored targets, hints that same will be implemented at United.
I tend to agree but wasn't aware where the story came from. Perhaps James is one of our options but not sure if he's a player Jose would be keen on.
I think the player Jose wants is Griezmann. And I doubt we will have any interest in James if we get Griezmann.
The Griezmann stories come from solid sources too. His representatives confirming United interest. Not some Colombian radio station.
I wouldn't be surprised to see James still warming Madrid's bench even next season.
- Status