James Rodriguez | joins Bayern Munich | 2 year loan

[cheeky_backheel]

IF we did take him, It would have to be on a 1 year trial basis with an option to sign him at the end of that year.

We can't stump up 40m or so and have him not adapt to the league or strop after a few games because the sun isn't shining.

I liked how the Falcao loan happened, could you imagine if he was stuck on a 5 year contract worth 200k a week?

I think he might actually turn out pretty good, but there's always that element of doubt.

and which quality player in his prime would agree to such ridiculous terms?

You do your research before you sign, but once you sign him, you give the player a respectable contract.

No matter who you sign there is always a risk of a player flopping at new club, and its not always the player's fault.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

I really like James as a player, but I've heard that his attitude is the real issue with him.

Apologies if this has already been discussed (as I'm sure it has been), but are the stories of him being a bit of a party animal and being generally 'unprofessional' true?

You will get that with the average S. American player. El fenomeno was said to have brought ladies to training while Ronaldinho was no slouch either. Very few are choir boys like Kaka.

 

[carvajal]

A luxury player is one that has significant deficiencies in aspects of their game which means they need to be carried to a by the rest of the team. A luxury player needs to add a lot with their specialist skills to justify inclusion.

Mata is very weak and slow so struggles badly at times in the PL. Some fans don't think he adds enough with his high technique level to justify inclusion.

Thanks.Then according to that most of #10 have defensive or physical weakness.
Isco keeps too much the ball,Ozil disconnects in some matches,etc...
Perhaps Mourinho doesn't need him and wants a more simple attack.Good midfielders,more vertical game + a top striker.

 

[peridigm]

I'd use him in a 4-2-3-1 where he thrives as a No. 10

De Gea
Fabinho Mike Bailly Shaw
Dier Pogba
Mkhitaryan James Martial
Greizmann

This would be such an underwhelming transfer window if that's how we started next season.

 

[Mihai]

I take your point about injury record - Greizmann would be my preferred option but would welcome Bale with open arms, he would add an extra dimension to our attack.

And an extra bed in the physio room.

 

[Adam-Utd]

and which quality player in his prime would agree to such ridiculous terms?

You do your research before you sign, but once you sign him, you give the player a respectable contract.

No matter who you sign there is always a risk of a player flopping at new club, and its not always the player's fault.

Well that's fine he can go elswhere then. Why should a club guarantee 60m + wages to a player who might be awful and want to leave after 6 months for a cut price fee?

We got stung with Di Maria, why should we again? If James is confident in his abilities he won't mind I am sure.

 

[Salfordlad70]

This would be such an underwhelming transfer window if that's how we started next season.

really? I think that would be brilliant apart from Smalling!

 

[carvajal]

Mesut Ozil at Arsenal basically.

The one that shines in the easier games when there is little pressure, but when the going gets tough disaapears. Especially in the bigger, more important games when you need him most.

That's a good example. In that case I think that James wouldn't hide in a big match. With Colombia knows to be the leader and although is not playing recently he scored in El Clásico coming from the bench.

 

[apotheosis]

Just the way he sat it out in Madrid and refused to move on last Summer despite Zidane being clear he wasn't in his plans.

If he wanted regular football elsewhere he would have had no lack of suitors in the PL but he kept banging on about staying in Madrid. Not in a "will fight for my place" sense but "I'm fine here and have a contract so feck you" Winston Bogarde kind of way.


I take the fact he has cooled things off as a positive, not a diss. He won't move here for the money alone, which is great news. I think he is uneasy about it from a professional/career standpoint, which is the way you want players to assess moves.

Yeah, difficult to read player's characters with all the media bollocks flying about. If James had have gone last year he would have been written off by many as just another talent who failed at Madrid. Although, many would see it as commendable that he stayed and fought for his place, once it doesn't work out, then he can easily be accused of only staying for the money. Look at Bastian's situation, should he have gone last year once he realised he wasn't wanted? Yet he stayed. Should he be commended for pledging to fight his way back into the team, or castigated for taking big money to train with the reserves? Maybe pride meant neither simply wanted to walk away as failures, who knows? just depends how you want to look at it i suppose.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

A luxury player is one that has significant deficiencies in aspects of their game which means they need to be carried to a by the rest of the team. A luxury player needs to add a lot with their specialist skills to justify inclusion.

Mata is very weak and slow so struggles badly at times in the PL. Some fans don't think he adds enough with his high technique level to justify inclusion.

That is an inaccurate definition. By construction, a luxury player is one you dont need in your team.

No player is perfect - every player has his strengths and weakness, but it is the job of the manager to integrate them into a team that has fewer weaknesses or none at all.

Benzema is not as clinical as some other premier CFs but that does not make him a luxury player. He is probably the best CF partner for CR7 and the latter scores enough goals for the two of them.

Ozil that some criticize was doing quite well at Madrid while Robben and Sneijder, who were shipped out from Madrid, found success at Bayern and Inter respectively.

 

[peridigm]

really? I think that would be brilliant apart from Smalling!

What have you seen from the 4 players I pointed out that makes you think they are suddenly going to be brilliant next season?

The poster left out two of our strongest MF players in Herrera and Mata. I'd have Rashford as a LW over Martial any day.
Sadly our injuries have changed our spending plans. I would not be surprised if we bought GK, 2 CBs, LB, DM, a winger and a striker.

I don't think James will fit our squad. The Madrid media are pushing him to us to ease the pressure of them signing DDG. We're either taking one of their players as part of the DDG deal, or Madrid will back off a player we're in for from another club.

 

[Jeffthered]

... am i the only one who thinks we need a real attacking, left-footed player who can play, genuinely, who can (shock horror..) actually play on the left? Leroy Mane was an astute piece of business by the neighbors, have to give them that. Wish we had a flying leftie... or rightie even... someone who can go outside a full back/wing back and deliver / or shoot. Dying breed man, a dying breed...

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Well that's fine he can go elswhere then. Why should a club guarantee 60m + wages to a player who might be awful and want to leave after 6 months for a cut price fee?

We got stung with Di Maria, why should we again? If James is confident in his abilities he won't mind I am sure.

Some are always quick to point to Di Madria, but have you considered what role the manager played in the failure? what about Veron, Bebe, Kleberson etc?

How much was paid for Martial and how long was his contract? How much return has the club seen so far?

United need James more than James need United. Even if he spends next season on the RM bench, it will not affect his status for NT, and he will likely win one or more silverware, adding to those he has already. I am sure he would have enough suitors whenever and if he does leave Madrid this summer.

 

[catmandeu]

Upto an extent he does seems to be a good option in the attack if we offload rooney that is. He has got a powerful long range shot which can bring another dimension to our attack as non of our squad bar zlatan and pogba can do so. James as no 10, right behind rashford, maybe griezman as left attacking mid and Mikhitaryan to the right. We does can play mata as subbed in at 10 and martial too upfront as striker.

 

[Salfordlad70]

What have you seen from the 4 players I pointed out that makes you think they are suddenly going to be brilliant next season?

The poster left out two of our strongest MF players in Herrera and Mata. I'd have Rashford as a LW over Martial any day.
Sadly our injuries have changed our spending plans. I would not be surprised if we bought GK, 2 CBs, LB, DM, a winger and a striker.

I don't think James will fit our squad. The Madrid media are pushing him to us to ease the pressure of them signing DDG. We're either taking one of their players as part of the DDG deal, or Madrid will back off a player we're in for from another club.

I would have Miki in every time. I've seem more than enough and i'm confident about him next year. Smalling is an obvious no and ok, Martial has too much too do before he starts. I like Dier and he'd be a great squad player and would be great in tricky away games. Herrera should be starting you're right. I'd take Griezmann and Dier and Fabinho and James could be one of those signings that could go horribly wrong so perhaps it's not worth a punt. I'd like to see....

DDG
Fabinho/Valencia
Bailly
Rojo
Shaw/new signing

Dier
Herrera
Pogba

Miki
Rashford/new signing

Griezmann

That said, it depends on the formation. The above formation would see pogba playing further forward behind Griezmann

 

[SachinJ22]

This would be such an underwhelming transfer window if that's how we started next season.

So you want to change the whole team? That will cost more than 500-600 million. Martial has the talent to one of the best forwards, Mkhi was Dortmund's best player last season. Even Shaw is good enough if he performs well and is free of injuries. You muppets think we need to buy 6 players every season by spending more than 200-300 million. He has already mentioned 4 new signings in his formation, you want 4 more signings to replace Mkhi, Martial, Shaw and Smalling?

 

[SachinJ22]

One bad egg from Madrid means they're all bad? Ok.

I trust @carvajal over lazy opinions like "I remember reading somewhere he has a bad attitude"

Okay, my bad. I didn't read carvajal's posts.

 

[soapythecat]

Regardless of how much better RM are than us at the moment, taking a piece of their deadwood and giving him a monstrous salary (which you know we will) just doesn't make sense. I don't see enough in him to make the changes to the team which we need for next season.
I'd be pretty underwhelmed and pissed if he came this summer - the money could be spent on much better players who want to play for us rather than using us to get out of Madrid.

 

[Ishdalar]

Well that's fine he can go elswhere then. Why should a club guarantee 60m + wages to a player who might be awful and want to leave after 6 months for a cut price fee?

We got stung with Di Maria, why should we again? If James is confident in his abilities he won't mind I am sure.

There's a lot of things that could go wrong in a year for James, and a lot of them have zero to do with his abilities.

He's a top class player, and as such he plays not only to have fun or to gain prestige, but to earn money, if you know you're top 100 in any job in this world, you'd like to have your future settled, no need to go full samurai for a year, just to end up injured, ostracized thanks to a manager that hates your guts or used as a bargain chip in a future trade.

You know, these guys are human too, they value having a place they feel they belong too, they like stability and feeling appreciated. If you really think that leasing a guy like a BMW is going to help him perform better, I think you're gravely mistaken

Regardless of how much better RM are than us at the moment, taking a piece of their deadwood and giving him a monstrous salary (which you know we will) just doesn't make sense. I don't see enough in him to make the changes to the team which we need for next season.
I'd be pretty underwhelmed and pissed if he came this summer - the money could be spent on much better players who want to play for us rather than using us to get out of Madrid.

Well, you got a point, but Sneijder or Robben were also deadwood from Real Madrid, and it still worked pretty well for Inter and Bayern.

But yeah, James is not a player that will magically turn United into a winning team, I'd say he's the one you want to build a team around, United already have that with Pogba, what the squad really needs is filling the holes so Pogba can become his better version, that would also help Mkhi, Mata, Rashford and Martial perform better

 

[redsunited]

I'd use him in a 4-2-3-1 where he thrives as a No. 10

De Gea
Fabinho Mike Bailly Shaw
Dier Pogba
Mkhitaryan James Martial
Greizmann

That's a good team(Except for CB where we will miss Rojo for first half of the season) which covers most bases.
* With Fabinho and Dier we could get 2 new CMs + RB Cover, CB Cover
* With James and Griezmann we could get AM, SS+CF. Additionally both can play wide as well. The position where both played most and scored most in their career is James (Right Wing) and Griezmann(Left Wing).
* With the 4 additions in good age group(all between 23 to 26 years), We could play both 4231 and 433 effectively with good players in squad rotation. 3 man midfield - Pogba, Fabinho, Herrera and Dier. Number 10 - James and Griezmann, Striker Griezmann and Rashford.

If the value of James is reasonable then Yes. For big money No. (As the Striker is the main priority for our big signing)

I wouldn't touch Hamez if it means Rashford goes to the bench. Griezmann will be more than enough as a withdrawn striker and Marcus can stay upfront.

Rashford started 12 matches as striker and still his mins/goal is not better than Mkhi/Mata who both hasn't had a great goal scoring season.

Zlatan - 3847 mins - 28 goals - 137 mins/goal
Mkhi - 2274 mins - 10 goals - 227 mins/goal
Mata - 2501 mins - 10 goals - 250 mins/goal
Rashford - 2863 mins - 11 goals - 260 mins/goal
Martial - 2286 mins - 8 goals - 286 mins/goal
Rooney - 2143 mins - 7 goals - 306 mins/goal
Lingard - 2000 mins - 5 goals - 400 mins/goal
Pogba - 4125 mins - 7 goals - 589 mins/goal

I am still not convinced to go with Rashford as main striker, new second striker and new backup. It should be a New Main Striker, New Second Striker and Rashford as Backup.

 

[United Pro]

How many here would take De Gea+£20m for James and Morata?

 

[Sparky10Legend]

We got good money for AdM, i wish people would understand how transfer fees work.

4 years contract - 60million fee.

We "used" one year, and we got 45m back. I bet those same people think PSG got dry humped with Luiz and Chelsea did well, when in reality they lost the two peak years of his career. Im NOT saying we got great money for AdM, but neither did we lose huge amounts of cash (relative to the fee/the level of the player etc etc). Football transfer fees are ammoratised over the length of the contract now, about time we thought of that when looking at fees etc.

 

[Raoul]

That's a good team(Except for CB where we will miss Rojo's for first half of the season) which covers most bases.
* With Fabinho and Dier we could get 2 new CMs + RB Cover, CB Cover
* With James and Griezmann we could get AM, SS+CF. Additionally both can play wide as well. The position where both played most and scored most in their career is James (Right Wing) and Griezmann(Left Wing).
* With the 4 additions in good age group(all between 23 to 26 years), We could play both 4231 and 433 effectively with good players in squad rotation. 3 man midfield - Pogba, Fabinho, Herrera and Dier. Number 10 - James and Griezmann, Striker Griezmann and Rashford.

If the value of James is reasonable then Yes. For big money No. (As the Striker is the main priority for our big signing)



Rashford started 12 matches as striker and still his mins/goal is not better than Mkhi/Mata who both hasn't had a great goal scoring season.

Zlatan - 3847 mins - 28 goals - 137 mins/goal
Mkhi - 2274 mins - 10 goals - 227 mins/goal
Mata - 2501 mins - 10 goals - 250 mins/goal
Rashford - 2863 mins - 11 goals - 260 mins/goal
Martial - 2286 mins - 8 goals - 286 mins/goal
Rooney - 2143 mins - 7 goals - 306 mins/goal
Lingard - 2000 mins - 5 goals - 400 mins/goal
Pogba - 4125 mins - 7 goals - 589 mins/goal

I am still not convinced to go with Rashford as main striker, new second striker and new backup. It should be a New Main Striker, New Second Striker and Rashford as Backup.

He's only 19. Next year I expect him to get about 20-25 goals.

 

[United Pro]

He's only 19. Next year I expect him to get about 20-25 goals.

Exactly, even this season he's played as a LW for the majority of his appearances. He'd be on about 20 goals for the season now if he were a regular starter as a striker for us (or another team)

 

[Kearnkoff69]

We would need to clear out players and wages to accommodate him. He basically performs Mata's role - the No. 10 who can play from the wing but doesn't beat players off the dribble. He's a good passer and goalscorer but won't create for himself. I'd take Bernardo Silva over him purely because Silva brings that 1v1 ability that we sorely lack. We'd be foolish to take him on big wages and for a large transfer fee if we're not seriously shaking up our attackers this summer and if we don't bring in better creators off the dribble.

 

[redsunited]

He's only 19. Next year I expect him to get about 20-25 goals.

That is a huge expectation for a 20 year old. Something on the line of being world class which as far as I know only Michael Owen has done for English clubs. You need to be a natural goal scorer to do that. I think its one year early to expect that consistency.

 

[Raoul]

That is a huge expectation for a 20 year old. Something on the line of being world class which as far as I know only Michael Owen has done for English clubs. You need to be a natural goal scorer to do that. I think its one year early to expect that.

Its not unreasonable at all. He had 8 goals in 18 appearances as an 18 year old and another 11 this year. He's only going to improve in the future so we can extrapolate as needed.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I don't even know if we're currently in position to complain about James with likes of Fellaini and Rooney still in the squad. The price tag is irrelevant at this point. If the club wants him they already have the offer on the table to close the deal before pre-season matches... and if not, no sleep will be sacrificed over that whatsoever.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

There's a lot of things that could go wrong in a year for James, and a lot of them have zero to do with his abilities.

He's a top class player, and as such he plays not only to have fun or to gain prestige, but to earn money, if you know you're top 100 in any job in this world, you'd like to have your future settled, no need to go full samurai for a year, just to end up injured, ostracized thanks to a manager that hates your guts or used as a bargain chip in a future trade.

You know, these guys are human too, they value having a place they feel they belong too, they like stability and feeling appreciated. If you really think that leasing a guy like a BMW is going to help him perform better, I think you're gravely mistaken



Well, you got a point, but Sneijder or Robben were also deadwood from Real Madrid, and it still worked pretty well for Inter and Bayern.

But yeah, James is not a player that will magically turn United into a winning team, I'd say he's the one you want to build a team around, United already have that with Pogba, what the squad really needs is filling the holes so Pogba can become his better version, that would also help Mkhi, Mata, Rashford and Martial perform better

You really cant and definitely shouldnt build a team around a single player. A team is built around a core group of 3-5 player. after all you cant build defence around a midfielder or forward.

I dont see the problem with building the defence around an elite CB (which we dont have yet), the midfield around Pogba, and the attack around a player like James or another. Then you add players to complement and tie the different phases together. Example Barcelona midfield was built around Xavi while the attack was built around Messi. Iniesta, a great player in his own right, added some dimensions that were missing from Xavi alone, while Busquets complemented the two.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Its not unreasonable at all. He had 8 goals in 18 appearances as an 18 year old and another 11 this year. He's only going to improve in the future so we can extrapolate as needed.

Its a different kettle of fish when you go into the season as the main striker and the opposition game plans for you.

 

[Raoul]

Its a different kettle of fish when you go into the season as the main striker and the opposition game plans for you.

That's true, but we will have a massively improved supporting cast with other attackers like Griezmann and B. Silva to help the cause. Rashford wouldn't be allowed to be our main striker be expected to shoulder all the load.

 

[antohan]

... am i the only one who thinks we need a real attacking, left-footed player who can play, genuinely, who can (shock horror..) actually play on the left? Leroy Mane was an astute piece of business by the neighbors, have to give them that. Wish we had a flying leftie... or rightie even... someone who can go outside a full back/wing back and deliver / or shoot. Dying breed man, a dying breed...

That could be an interesting hybrid.

I hear you though, given Mou's penchant for one attacking and one defensive fullback we need an outside forward wherever the defensive one is (largely left as it stands).

 

[peridigm]

So you want to change the whole team? That will cost more than 500-600 million. Martial has the talent to one of the best forwards, Mkhi was Dortmund's best player last season. Even Shaw is good enough if he performs well and is free of injuries. You muppets think we need to buy 6 players every season by spending more than 200-300 million. He has already mentioned 4 new signings in his formation, you want 4 more signings to replace Mkhi, Martial, Shaw and Smalling?

I'm not saying I think we need to replace all 4. If I had to choose two of those positions we needed to strengthen, I'd go with CB and LB.

We may not need to buy 6 players this season but we're going to be forced to buy 6 players.
DDG may well end up in Madrid.
Zlatan is gone.
Rojo is not going to be back until December at the earliest.
Shaw - who knows what the feck is going on with him now. Injured and apparently we were going to listen to offers for him.
Carrick is most likely gone.
Rooney is gone.
Young could be off as well.
Fellaini whom I think will stay is very underwhelming for United.

We MUST address the lack of goals. We also need to address central and left defense and midfield. Bailly and Blind, Smalling, and Jones will not work long term for central defense. That also leaves us with Darmian and Blind as only two left back options and either are world beaters.

It's not the muppets that has us needing to sign 6 players. It's the state of our squad base don the last 4 transfer windows and not bringing in proper replacements for players we knew were on the decline, Rooney, Carrick, et al.

We obviously can't spend over 200 million on players every window but we should not be looking to bring in an unproven Madrid reject in James when we need to strengthen other areas more than the #10 spot.

I agree. What we do all depends on the formation Jose wants to play.

 

[villain]

People would seriously turn down Rodriguez?

Obviously he isn't the only improvement we need, but we do need playmakers and set piece specialists - plus increased competition will encourage better performances from Miki, Mata, Martial & Lingard.
Has a lot to prove also, and has CL and international experience.

Swap deals don't happen often in football (if ever between two clubs as big as us & Madrid) and we're under no obligation to sell De Gea either, so that idea can be put to rest.

 

[ottosec]

We need goalscorers, not creative players. And even if we need someone to create it would be stupid to spend big on Madrid rejects.

 

[AgentP]

How many here would take De Gea+£20m for James and Morata?

That's a more than fair deal. They would be replacements for Zlatan and Rooney.

 

[AgentP]

We need goalscorers, not creative players. And even if we need someone to create it would be stupid to spend big on Madrid rejects.

But James is a goal scorer. That's his best quality. He will score more than all our midfielders. He is brilliant at free kicks too.

 

[Ishdalar]

You really cant and definitely shouldnt build a team around a single player. A team is built around a core group of 3-5 player. after all you cant build defence around a midfielder or forward.

I dont see the problem with building the defence around an elite CB (which we dont have yet), the midfield around Pogba, and the attack around a player like James or another. Then you add players to complement and tie the different phases together. Example Barcelona midfield was built around Xavi while the attack was built around Messi. Iniesta, a great player in his own right, added some dimensions that were missing from Xavi alone, while Busquets complemented the two.

That version of Barcelona had different roles for those players, Xavi hogged the ball, Iniesta even played as a wide attacker sometimes, and Messi acted a lot more in spaces or as a pivot to help Xavi/Iniesta keep the ball. You need a set of key players, but you play only with one ball.

If you want to fufill 100% of James potential, he has to play as a 10, that's too close to Pogba's action zone and both of them are players that want to have the ball and need to be involved, having those two playing close would hinder them imho, obviusly you can manage to make them work together, but when you already have Pogba, James is a surplus on that zone, you're better set spending James' money in a elite CB, wingers or a striker.

When I said you build a team around James it just meant respecting his "heatmap", you obviusly need to have more players close to his level, but even in Barcelona, Iniesta and Messi have been working well for years, but if you put them together as our CM's with Ney,Suarez and say Cristiano ahead, Iniesta might become a liability for the team balance

 

[BennyBlanco]

But James is a goal scorer. That's his best quality. He will score more than all our midfielders. He is brilliant at free kicks too.

His goal scoring record isn't all that much removed than someone like Mata's when you look through his time at Valencia, first few seasons at Chelsea and to a lesser degree here.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

That version of Barcelona had different roles for those players, Xavi hogged the ball, Iniesta even played as a wide attacker sometimes, and Messi acted a lot more in spaces or as a pivot to help Xavi/Iniesta keep the ball. You need a set of key players, but you play only with one ball.

If you want to fufill 100% of James potential, he has to play as a 10, that's too close to Pogba's action zone and both of them are players that want to have the ball and need to be involved, having those two playing close would hinder them imho, obviusly you can manage to make them work together, but when you already have Pogba, James is a surplus on that zone, you're better set spending James' money in a elite CB, wingers or a striker.

When I said you build a team around James it just meant respecting his "heatmap", you obviusly need to have more players close to his level, but even in Barcelona, Iniesta and Messi have been working well for years, but if you put them together as our CM's with Ney,Suarez and say Cristiano ahead, Iniesta might become a liability for the team balance

Its only fans that think there is some imaginary scenario that Pogba is #10 and has some 'action zone'. Mourinho obviously does not see it as such. Whether its james, Mkhi, Mata or someone else, the team will have a #10, and, he and Pogba will have to cooperate.