Oh yeh, I'd pay through the nose for a 22 prospect year old like Pogba but he's not coming to us with Barcelona interested. That's why I think McCarthy is an option - he's gettable, a decent player with prospects, given the right club, coach & players around him.
James McCarthy
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No it isn't. It's comparing two similar transfers; one of the best players in a mid table team joining a much bigger team in a big money move. I could have easily used Ashley Young as the example or in a few years I'm sure Bony will be a prime example. The point is being cautious about big fish in small ponds adapting.
And yet we didn't buy Fellaini to play in that position. We bought him because his best position was apparently as a defensive midfielder. When he came he spoke about trying to emulate Roy Keane and our manager at the time spoke about being forced to play him further forward because circumstances demanded it. Whether you think Moyes was a complete idiot for thinking this is pretty immaterial.
Again I don't see a position where McCarthy would benefit us, apart from squad depth. He's worse than Carrick in his position; he's worse than Herrera in his position and he isn't a number 10 (but would be worse than Mata even if he was). If we were to spend £25+m I'd want a player to come in and instantly replace Carrick; McCarthy isn't that player and I don't believe has the ability to ever be that player.
He was a stand out player in a season where the team was riding a wave of new manager syndrome; where loaned players in Lukaku & Barry were out to win a contract and where teams were still playing them as if they were Moyes' team and getting a shock.
If we are saying he was a key part of how great they were last season we have to concede he's a part of why they have been so shite this season.
A midfield of Schneiderlin, McCarthy and Herrera would be very underwhelming in my opinion. In fact I'd say it would be a significant downgrade on what we currently potentially have in Carrick, Herrera & Mata. Our 3 year plan should be having a midfield three of Herrera, Mata and a truly top class defensive midfielder in the Matic mould, with the likes of Schneiderlin & Blind as squad options. Spending £50m on Schneiderlin & McCarthy would be a backwards step in my opinion.
If we are to upgrade on a theoretical three of Carrick v2, Herrera & Mata (with Schneiderlin/Blind filling in) it should only be if truly great players in the Pogba, Verratti, Koke, Vidal mould become available.
Again lets see next season. It's amazing how some players can look great when the pressure is off and expectations are average. Everything about Cleverley strikes me hugely as a big fish in a small pond character.
And in 2015 he was a key component in a team that finished closer to Burnley than Liverpool. You can't take the glory of doing well without taking responsibility for doing poorly.
He's a very decent player but the main compliment I hear about him is that "he covers every blade of grass". Surely we are looking for more than that?
...and, put it this way, if we got McCarthy and City got Pogba....I'd be a bit disappointed.
I agree with you pal.
Seems to be a huge amount of love for him on here, surely based on more than the odd good display against us!
Fellaini was signed on a similar sentiment.
We need some top quality additions, we have the squad players already.
Two points:
1. Absolutely nobody is saying we should go for McCarthy instead of somebody of Pogba's quality. We're saying McCarthy would be a good buy *along with* a better player or (touch wood) if we aren't able to sign anyone better. Given that we're understrength in midfield as is and Carrick has maybe only one season left then there's no reason to limit ourselves to talking about one midfield signing, is there?
2. McCarthy is much more suited to stepping up a level than Fellaini was as he's technically better and more suited to the sort of football top PL teams tend to play. It's a really pointless comparison.
1. Absolutely nobody is saying we should go for McCarthy instead of somebody of Pogba's quality. We're saying McCarthy would be a good buy *along with* a better player or (touch wood) if we aren't able to sign anyone better. Given that we're understrength in midfield as is and Carrick has maybe only one season left then there's no reason to limit ourselves to talking about one midfield signing, is there?
2. McCarthy is much more suited to stepping up a level than Fellaini was as he's technically better and more suited to the sort of football top PL teams tend to play. It's a really pointless comparison.
Thank you. Please re post this every couple of hours, so the hard of reading get the idea
Good player, prefer Schniederlin
Willing to spend £80 million or so for Pogba, a player like all the other sexy names, we probably can't get this summer. So, £50 million on two supporting players for Carrick & the midfield - what's not to like?
I don't want Pogba at the club and never even mentioned him, so not sure why you would bring that up in relation to my post.
For me we need one of McCarthy/Schneiderlin or another similar type to add steal and physicality and defensive solidarity to the team in the middle. (Thats not taking away from the fact they both are good technically and can pass the ball)
Along with that we need another midfielder who also has defensive balance, but who's main strength is their passing range. I guess a fully fit Gundogan would fit the bill, but hopefully we have other targets in mind there.
The best thing would be to be able to get a player who covers all of those attributes, but I can't think of any who we could get tbh.
That's what not to like. Carrick is almost 34. We need someone who he can be supported by Carrick and others not a supporting act.
My take as well. One whose strength is his tackling/defensive attributes and another who can control the game with his passing.
I was referring to the Club being willing to spend £80 million and if indeed the Club are wanting to pay for the very big targets, Pogba, Bale, Ronaldo....(even Gundogan seems reluctant) & yet are unable to attract them as I expect, then we need a plan B. Midfield has been a patchwork for a while, we all know that. I don't think we can have enough cover, options in there, especially as Carrick's time is coming to an end - how many games will he miss this season? I'd like Herrera freed to play further forward as he has a good goal threat.
They don't fancy us at the moment, these 'Merc' players.
How would you know that? Falcao, Di Maria were quite big names last Summer.
Schneiderlin and McCarthy are Liverpool type signings. We should aim better.
Like everyone else, I'm going off what we hear, that the big names are looking elsewhere & we are looking at Schneiderlin. If we pull off a few mega signings, fantastic - I just don't see that happening, until we're back at the top in England.
We can pull off mega signings - due to the FFP we're in an excellent position in terms of money that we can offer both in transfer sum and wages.
The transfer window is yet to start and we pulled off the biggest transfer so far.
All that "the big names are looking elsewhere" is media crap to be honest.
Who's your money on, who we gonna get?
I can see us going for Schweinsteiger/Gundogan/Vidal (not the flavor of the month and probably we will face less competition than last year, question is if we want him) and probably Benzema as part of eventual DDG deal.
Hummels and Cech/Lloris as part of big names in terms of defense and GK position are fairly big names as well that are quoted.
Two of the above 3 midfielders and Hummels + a GK I'd say will be pretty good window along with Depay.
Agree.
If it was up to me I'd pinpoint the top quality creative player we want first and go out of our way to secure him. He could be a deep lying #6 type or a more box to box #8, it wouldn't really matter. The important thing is that he'd take Carrick's place as the person who runs our midfield (even if he does it in a slightly different way).
I'd then target whichever McCarthy/Schneiderlin type player best complements the creative guy we get. That would give us a well rounded top quality midfield, I think. People on this forum have been crying out for more steel and defensive strength in midfield for years and both Schneiderlin and McCarthy would bring that without sacrificing anything in technical or passing ability. They'd both be excellent water carriers for a technically minded passing team imo.
That's the context I'm saying McCarthy would be a good signing in, which is fairly hard to argue against I'd have thought.
Think he'd do v well at Arsenal.
After watching him again today, I reaffirm my opinion that Cleverley will be as good as he is for Everton.
Was that opinion also reaffirmed when he was the best player on the park in the Everton-United game?
Perhaps single games shouldn't be used to reaffirm anything?
Perhaps single games shouldn't be used to reaffirm anything?
Player is far better at club than international level shocker.
The way he used his elbow I think he was trying to show LvG he wants Fellaini's place!
Said it in the Ireland thread, but...
Even us pro-McCarthy posters have long said he underperforms for Ireland so judging him on today's display is a bit pointless. If that was a typical McCarthy performance at club level then he would struggle to get into the Everton team, let alone a top four side.
Having watched plenty of both McCarthy and Cleverley I can safely say that McCarthy is better and by some distance too.
Even us pro-McCarthy posters have long said he underperforms for Ireland so judging him on today's display is a bit pointless. If that was a typical McCarthy performance at club level then he would struggle to get into the Everton team, let alone a top four side.
Having watched plenty of both McCarthy and Cleverley I can safely say that McCarthy is better and by some distance too.
He is regularly poor for Ireland. Shame Gibson is injured all the time because they struck up a good partnership the few games they had together this season.
Good player, not a great one. Not too dissimilar to his other incredibly popular team mate Seamus Coleman.
I have to agree with Coleman as well. It's the same as with Clyne, these names regularly get banded about, but I refuse to believe there isn't better in their position.
Coleman yesterday kept finding himself in space but couldn't cross to save his life.
Basically this. Good players, but you could/should be looking to do far better with the prices Everton would demand.
Rivalled Forsyth for the worst player on the pitch yesterday.
He's gone off the boil a bit but he's the type of player that can do a job for a better team than Everton by keeping things simple and keeping the ball moving. Van Gaal's interest in him last summer was serious but Everton had no intention to sell. He'll be a better player a year or two down the road
Forsyth was horrendous. If Coleman could do something with the ball they had freedom down the Scottish left he was mince.
Think we should be all over him next Summer, especially as Carrick and Schweinsteiger will be a year older and Blind will possibly be a permanent centre back.
Think him and Schneiderlin in a double pivot would be reminiscent of Martinez and Schweinsteiger at Bayern under Jupp Heynckes.
Think him and Schneiderlin in a double pivot would be reminiscent of Martinez and Schweinsteiger at Bayern under Jupp Heynckes.
Nah, i think we need a playmaker in there, Schneiderlin and McCarthy is very much same type of player. Gundogan if he can get back to form would be my shout.
McCarthy, Scheiderlin and Herrera in a 3 man midfield would be the best in the league.
I cant really see us or any of the top 4 being in for him to be honest..We have a Scneiderlin, and LVG requires his other midfielder to be someone who can properly dictate a game..Chelsea have Matic..City have quite a collection of midfielders, and I dont think he would boost their quota, and Wenger will stick by Couqelin..and he isnt crossing the Merseyside divide..I think he'll stay at Everton for a while yet and be a very good player for them.
It still lacks a player that can dictate play, so no i don't think it would.
Not sure how well McCarthy + Schnedierlin would work as a partnership, a little bit too similar.