To be fair, yeah, he scored a very classy goal...I stand corrected on never.
James Garner
- Thread starter RussellWilson
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Forums are getting to be a joke; so many threads are off topic. Especially in the youth forums! How did this turn into a Ravel Morrison thread? The subject says "James Garner". They don't even play the same position.
Its the age of Covid mate, there are no rules. Just sit back and let the chat go where it may.
So where are we up to in Garner's development then do we feel? Is the next step a PL or high level championship loan?
Supremely talented and highly rated on the world stage as a youngster but I can't see how he breaks in to our set up with Fred, Mctominay, Pogba and Fernandes.
Is it more beneficial to promote him as a squad player in the first team or send him somewhere to get minutes at a good level. I'd say the latter as he needs to be playing. The loan move needs to be a wise one though.
Supremely talented and highly rated on the world stage as a youngster but I can't see how he breaks in to our set up with Fred, Mctominay, Pogba and Fernandes.
Is it more beneficial to promote him as a squad player in the first team or send him somewhere to get minutes at a good level. I'd say the latter as he needs to be playing. The loan move needs to be a wise one though.
If he was ready to take the next step into PL, he would have done so under Ole. There was a period when Ole was using Perreira as a CM which shows Garner is nowhere near ready.
With teams struggling to buy players, I feel we can send our potential youth out on loan. For example if we are to go for Grealish, include a year loan for Garner.
I feel Andreas was being given a season to see if he could do it. The club owed him that. Unfortunately he's shown he's not cut out for it and I imagine he'll be moved on. Not sure that's a fair reflection on Garner.
I get what you mean, but I don't think he is ready for the step up yet. It would have been good to see him play a few more games.
I still feel a loan where he would play 20odd games a season would be better for him than playing 4/5 games a season at United.
If we are not buying a CDM starter this season, then we should seriously consider investing more game time in Garner. Matic is past it and I am not convinced Fred can do the job long term and at the level we would aspire to be.
I feel that Garner and Levitt would both benefit with a good loan. I've said it many times before, United should try to get a good relationship with a Belgian, German or Dutch club, where we could send a couple of talented youngsters on loan. Living abroad, learning a new culture and playing style etc. Must better, than sending them to League Two og One, or just sit on the bench. Both Levitt and Garner need matches on a regular basis, and at a much higher level than U23-football with MUFC.
Garner would be a star at a Championship club, a season at that level and he'll be ready for a back up/rotation role for us.
This all sounds good in principle but we hardly see players benefiting from a loan abroad. Chelsea have tried it with a dutch team which hasn't worked.
A loan in the championship or lower PL team would benefit them more so they can learn the style of football, knowing that if they do well in a lower league team, they can slot into the United team easier.
He's still fairly young, correct? Is he 20 yet? I know the life of a footballer can be quick, but from a selfish United, big-picture view, whats the rush?
Why not keep him around, training with Mejbri and others to be starters for the U-23s and the occasional UEFA Cup games?
Why not keep him around, training with Mejbri and others to be starters for the U-23s and the occasional UEFA Cup games?
Especially as loan moves didn't work out for several recent loanees.
Turned 19 just 2 months ago.
He's shown he's at least League 1 level. Championship loan is most likely. I don't think he'll start for a PL team; they want experienced players. No point wasting a year sitting on some PL bench. His competition here are Matic and McTominay. Fred is definitely not a CDM. Unless he's all but promised 15 to 20 senior cup games next season, then he should go on loan.
Well, first of all no PL club would loan either of them. They are not ready for that at the moment.
And Chelseas relationship with Vitesse worked very well. They have had 28 players there since 2010 (Matic one of the first), and the way it works is actually quite good. I visited Vitesse on a coaching study trip two years ago for a few days, and heard a bit about how the deal with Chelsea works..
That said, if a good club in the Championship would take Garner / Levitt on loan, and they play some regular football, it would be great. In general I think, United as a club, should do even better in this area. Way to often it doesn't end well for the player on loan I feel..
For me he's too close to being ready for the first team for a loan to be a good idea. Without a pipeline club like Chelsea or City have, loans have to be seen as a very risky option. Statistically they do not work out for us.
All the United academy products currently playing successfully in the first team were eased in without loans. The two United academy products currently in the team that did take the loan route to get there are, interestingly, Lingard and Pereira, who between them catch an astonishing amount of hatred on here for not being good enough.
Next season we will probably not have been able to buy a new midfielder. Matic will be a year older, and I think Solskjaer will feel that he has given Pereira enough time to try and prove himself. Garner will get chances.
All the United academy products currently playing successfully in the first team were eased in without loans. The two United academy products currently in the team that did take the loan route to get there are, interestingly, Lingard and Pereira, who between them catch an astonishing amount of hatred on here for not being good enough.
Next season we will probably not have been able to buy a new midfielder. Matic will be a year older, and I think Solskjaer will feel that he has given Pereira enough time to try and prove himself. Garner will get chances.
I think getting Garner on loan for a season in the Championship, then, if he does well, get him to replace Matic in the squad for 2021-2022.
Levitt defo needs to prove himself on loan, as he has tougher competition in his positions at the club as a number 8, also with Mejbri and possibly Bellingham around. I don't think Dylan will make it with such competition, but the club should provide him a pathway for him to at least put up a fight and prove himself.
Levitt defo needs to prove himself on loan, as he has tougher competition in his positions at the club as a number 8, also with Mejbri and possibly Bellingham around. I don't think Dylan will make it with such competition, but the club should provide him a pathway for him to at least put up a fight and prove himself.
Are we signing Bellingham? I remember reading that Dortmund had won the race to sign him
Well, you say that but with no money to spend for quite alot of the clubs at the bottom, loans / free transfers is something they will look to.
Saying chelsea relationship worked well, but there is no evidence of any of the players benefiting from the loan and becoming regular first team players. Matic went on loan and then was sold to Benfica.
If the coaches believe he is good enough to play for United a loan in the PL or Championship would be most suitable.
I agree, we are pretty bad with our loans. Recently, we have done ok with Henderson and Tuanzebe. I feel we have alot of players that would benefit a good loan e.g. Chong, Levitt, Gomes, Garner etc. However; it is paramount that they get minutes rather than play on the bench.
Agreed. He needs one season where he gets to play 75% of the games. Championship next season would be ideal. I feel the club should be looking at championship clubs who need a CDM preferably a team that has a manager / style we want to implement.
What clubs in Championship would suit him then? Brentford have the playstyle but I can't see Garner getting into their midfield over the players they already got for instance.
Mason Mount also went to Vitesse. And the fact is, Chelsea just didn’t play any kids for a long time, I don’t think the issue is with their loans to Vitesse. The Vitesse part of their development is usually a success, their players get a fair amount of football at a decent level in the Eredivise. Only Chelsea have typically chosen to do nothing with it.
I think Levitt is now playing as a DPL and Garner is the box2box with a good shot.
Cardiff, Swansea and Sheffield Wednesday rumoured to be after a loan deal. What do the Championship experts say?
Like Swansea...
I’m delighted if they can go to good clubs who’ll try their best to play them. It makes total sense. Garner levitt and laird need games next year if they are ever going to stake a place in our team or get deals at decent clubs in the future. I don’t want our promising players to stagnate in the reserves while the club eye up players who are the same age but getting to show what they can do at a higher level. The U23s is a bad gauge of where a player is really at and players at 19/20 should be playing first team even if it’s down the divisions. I was saying a few weeks ago that Salford might be a good shout for lads that are in that limbo between the u23 and first team. It’s close, there’s obviously the utd connection and they are on the up.
Salford is quite a stretch, don't you think? Our promising youngsters can seriously challenge for a first team spot in the Championship. League Two loans for players with the potential to eventually challenge for a place here doesn't seem right.
Happy enough to see Garner go to a decent club if he's guaranteed enough games, but I was hoping Laird would get similar chances to Williams next season, as AWBs understudy. Not least if Dalot is shipped out.
Swansea are a good footballing side, think they’d the a good fit. Big club too, big stadium and a good stage to get used to. To be fair that applies to all of those mentioned.
Sorry I didn’t mean for this year. I meant for going forward if they keep rising
Ah, makes sense!
Sounds good. I confess my ignorance, I have no idea how any of the mentioned teams play, what their managers are like etc.
Swansea play a passing game suiting United players. They have a threadbare squad; with 6 loans ending at the end of May and another 7 senior player contracts ending in June. Leaving them with just 12 senior players by July 1st - 4 of those will be midfielders ( 1 DCM, 2 × b2b, 1 AM). All 4 of the midfielders got a lot of game time this season.
No doubt that Garner, Levitt and Galbraith should be loaned out.
Interesting what happens with Puigmal and Traore. I don't think they will make it here, but at least they (especially Puigmal) should be given chances by loaning them out also.
Interesting what happens with Puigmal and Traore. I don't think they will make it here, but at least they (especially Puigmal) should be given chances by loaning them out also.
A loan would make sense. He’s got too many players ahead of him in his position in the first team.
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I think Laird really depends on what happens with Dalot but the other two absolutely need to be experiencing men’s football. I just think Laird has half a chance of being part of the squad part way through next season.
Salford for me is too low down the pyramid for them and other than location and links with United I don’t see the benefit for Garner, Levitt or Laird being there. There are plenty of good Championship or even League One clubs.
I came here to say this too haha!
I’d be amazed if they don’t desperately want some loanees in who are guaranteed minutes especially given the financial climate.
Would be one of the best options for Garner/Levitt definitely but I think Laird is harder to place at the moment.
We really should be doing more of these loans, like back in the day (whatever happened to the Royal Antwerp deal by the way?). Good to hear this...
Not sure about this logic at all, really. Tuanzebe also took that route — and injuries have curtailed any progress. Nothing to do with going on loans.
How about Dean Henderson? It’s also not like the loans for either Lingard or Pereira went bad — they’re just inherently not particularly great players. Pereira had the talent at youth level and also did OK for Grenada and Valencia but seemingly never showed it for us. That happens - that’s some youth players unfortunately. Lingard scored 4 goals in a game on loan at Birmingham once. I also don’t remember our youth watchers hyping Lingard up in a level that Garner is held at.
It’s all well and good being ‘close to the first team’ but at the end of the day you need game time. Unless you’re going to be thrust in and make your mark in an injury crisis like Rashford or Williams have done, you’re going to be sitting on barely 500 minutes for the entire season. Or you’re just an outrageous generational talent like Greenwood. Who also benefitted from a lack of numbers uptop anyway.
Garner will have Pogba; Fred; McTominay; potentially new CM; and Matic all ahead of him. This season was also one where Pogba was injured for near enough all of it, and Matic was left out in the cold for most the first half, and we still got by without major youth implementation in midfield. Don’t think that’ll happen again.
Garner absolutely needs the loan. He’s too good to be sitting in U23 football and it’ll be pointless for him to sit on the bench or just travelling with the squad all next season.
Swansea would be good because they're managed by Steve Cooper who was the manager of England u17s when they won the World Cup. He had Garner as his captain at the U17 Euros. He's been keen to have players he knows from the England setup at Swansea.
Sounds about ideal.
His story, Gomes and Brandon Williams are interesting.
Similar to Gomes but perhaps slightly better, Ole and the rest of his team haven't yet able to trust Garner enough to have proper games. When Pog and McT are out, and Matic is basically still out of favor, Fred is the only one left reliable enough leaving one other slot. Garner couldn't get ahead of even Pereira says a lot. I think one game is enough to make strong impression. Can't remember any of the games where he did, except for a "meaningless" pre-season game.
Brand Will showed how if you're "good enough", the coaches will trust and dare to try you in games, impress well and you can even get ahead of exp player eg. Young. I know injuries to FBs paved the way, but even then, Ole could've easily put certain players in the first team out of position instead of basically gambling on youth. Plus, once the injured defenders are back, Williams is still being chosen at times ahead of Shaw and Young.
Garner does impress well in trainings according to Fred, but that's not enough.
Similar to Gomes but perhaps slightly better, Ole and the rest of his team haven't yet able to trust Garner enough to have proper games. When Pog and McT are out, and Matic is basically still out of favor, Fred is the only one left reliable enough leaving one other slot. Garner couldn't get ahead of even Pereira says a lot. I think one game is enough to make strong impression. Can't remember any of the games where he did, except for a "meaningless" pre-season game.
Brand Will showed how if you're "good enough", the coaches will trust and dare to try you in games, impress well and you can even get ahead of exp player eg. Young. I know injuries to FBs paved the way, but even then, Ole could've easily put certain players in the first team out of position instead of basically gambling on youth. Plus, once the injured defenders are back, Williams is still being chosen at times ahead of Shaw and Young.
Garner does impress well in trainings according to Fred, but that's not enough.