James Garner

Classical Mechanic said:
I agree with the other poster. He has looked shy when playing for the first team and I think that's why we've seen so little of him this season. He needs more time to grow his confidence to compete at senior level He's a much more talented footballer than Williams but Williams has that fearless mentality to mix it at senior level.
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"He has looked shy when playing for the first team" <- Any chance that might be because he's unfamiliar with tactics, or his fellow players? Of course not - he's a kid - so blame it on nebulous 'lack of confidence'.

Lack of confidence seems to me a lazy catch-all term for he's not as useful as Fred, Matic, or McTominay; because he lacks their experience, physique, and familiarity with other first team players and tactics.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
"He has looked shy when playing for the first team" <- Any chance that might be because he's unfamiliar with tactics, or his fellow players? Of course not - he's a kid - so blame it on nebulous 'lack of confidence'.

Lack of confidence seems to me a lazy catch-all term for he's not as useful as Fred, Matic, or McTominay; because he lacks their experience, physique, and familiarity with other first team players and tactics.
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I totally disagree. I think mentality is the most important thing when stepping up to senior level. Its about pressure and exposure essentially, it sends some into their shell and why you see some very talented players disappear whilst other less talented players make it.

That's not to say that Garner isn't going to make it, just that he isn't ready for the level right now, he needs to mature more.
 
Not many 18 year olds walk into a mens first team and boss it from the 1st minute, the majority look shy and just keep it simple :rolleyes:
 
Adam-Utd said:
Not many 18 year olds walk into a mens first team and boss it from the 1st minute, the majority look shy and just keep it simple :rolleyes:
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I'm not sure what the eye rolling is for. I said speculated that he isn't metally ready and that's why we've seen so little of him, despite him being brilliant in the u23s. I also statred that it isn't necessarily a permanent problem and he needs more time.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I'm not sure what the eye rolling is for. I said speculated that he isn't metally ready and that's why we've seen so little of him, despite him being brilliant in the u23s. I also statred that it isn't necessarily a permanent problem and he needs more time.
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Questioning the mentality if an 18 year old because he doesn't coming in looking like a prime Micheal Carrick is a bit silly.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I totally disagree. I think mentality is the most important thing when stepping up to senior level. Its about pressure and exposure essentially, it sends some into their shell and why you see some very talented players disappear whilst other less talented players make it.

That's not to say that Garner isn't going to make it, just that he isn't ready for the level right now, he needs to mature more.
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He’s 18 CM. Maturity often comes with more experience and exposure at top level.
 
First off he is 19. Second off neither of the two posts talking about his confidence criticized him for it or expected him to be bossing games at 18. Jeez people love getting their knickers in a twist here.
 
romufc said:
A loan is what he needs. He needs run of games where he is not judged on every minute of his performance.
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Word was we looked for a loan for him in January but for whatever reason didn’t like the offers made for him so just kept him. Hopefully we can sort it in the summer as he is well and truly above the u23s now but nowhere near getting any meaningful minutes in our first team.

Would happily get him down to Charlton for a year.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Word was we looked for a loan for him in January but for whatever reason didn’t like the offers made for him so just kept him. Hopefully we can sort it in the summer as he is well and truly above the u23s now but nowhere near getting any meaningful minutes in our first team.

Would happily get him down to Charlton for a year.
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They're a mess, or have been for a while. Sending a youth player on loan at a potentially toxic environment isn't going to be good for his development. Surely there are more stable options for a young lad to get some game time.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Garner is still 18. How many 18 year old players are playing in the PL? 'Late bloomer' indeed; more like an early bloomer.

People write such nonsense with their platitudes: 'late bloomer', 'lacks confidence', blah, blah.
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Yeah, especially not at DM. Garner needs to be loaned out next year and maybe another one after that at least. He should have been sent on loan this season already. The U23s is a crap league/competition.
 
crossy1686 said:
They're a mess, or have been for a while. Sending a youth player on loan at a potentially toxic environment isn't going to be good for his development. Surely there are more stable options for a young lad to get some game time.
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Didn’t do Gallagher any harm. Cullen has also developed great there. Getting a regular role under a manager like Lee Bowyer would be a fantastic development for him, as evidenced by the previous two CM loanees who have developed swimmingly.

And the ownership is a bit of a mess which will have little impact on Garner. Which will be sorted by the summer anyway. Bowyer is a fantastic manager and there is nothing toxic about the fan base, same can’t be said for the sorry excuse of United fans.

And based on January, no there weren’t good options, hence why he didn’t go on loan.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Didn’t do Gallagher any harm. Cullen has also developed great there. Getting a regular role under a manager like Lee Bowyer would be a fantastic development for him, as evidenced by the previous two CM loanees who have developed swimmingly.

And the ownership is a bit of a mess which will have little impact on Garner. Which will be sorted by the summer anyway. Bowyer is a fantastic manager and there is nothing toxic about the fan base, same can’t be said for the sorry excuse of United fans.

And based on January, no there weren’t good options, hence why he didn’t go on loan.
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Sadly I can’t disagree with that
 
Johan07 said:
Yeah, especially not at DM. Garner needs to be loaned out next year and maybe another one after that at least. He should have been sent on loan this season already. The U23s is a crap league/competition.
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Garner plays both DMC and more box-to-box. I agree he should go out on loan. The concern I'd have sending players on loan is inferior medical staff, standards and coaching to United. Bigger chance of long-term injury and a possible regression in standards with some players. So limit the loan to half a season please, and monitor his progress all the time.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Not many 18 year olds walk into a mens first team and boss it from the 1st minute, the majority look shy and just keep it simple :rolleyes:
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Indeed, look at Greenwood, he's scored 12 goals in the first team and even he still looks nervous at times.

I've said it before but I think it'll be a few years before we see the best of Garner, midfield is a role that requires experience, I'm usually not a huge fan of loans for our standout talents but Garner could certainly benefit from one.
 
crossy1686 said:
They're a mess, or have been for a while. Sending a youth player on loan at a potentially toxic environment isn't going to be good for his development. Surely there are more stable options for a young lad to get some game time.
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Ethan Hamilton is doing better at Bolton than he did at Southend; but Bolton is supposedly the 'toxic environment'! I'm sympathetic to your point of view: United have specialist youth coaches, good medical staff, and programmes for player development. Some of our players came back crocked after a loan, such as: TFM & Demitri Mitchell. Others such as CBJ seem to have regressed with some skills. E.g. CBJ's passing is not as good as it was a few years ago!
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Garner is still 18. How many 18 year old players are playing in the PL? 'Late bloomer' indeed; more like an early bloomer.

People write such nonsense with their platitudes: 'late bloomer', 'lacks confidence', blah, blah.
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When compared to the players of his age that are rated in the same bracket he is currently behind, where we thought he'd be.

He was in match day squads at the start of the season, and now doesn't get anywhere near them. He was ahead of say Williams at the start of the year, and despite having only 2 CMs fit for part of the season still couldn't get on the field.

I rate him massively, but think he'll take a little longer to come through than most expected, with a loan looking likely next year, rather than the gradual implementation to the first team that looked likely at the start of the season.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I totally disagree. I think mentality is the most important thing when stepping up to senior level. Its about pressure and exposure essentially, it sends some into their shell and why you see some very talented players disappear whilst other less talented players make it.

That's not to say that Garner isn't going to make it, just that he isn't ready for the level right now, he needs to mature more.
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Definitely - people masively, massively underestimate this. McTominay and Williams, while not necessarily our most gifted players, have the hearts of lions and that helps so much with the step up. Garner will (hopefully) grow into himself with more experience - Greenwood looks much more confident now than at the start of the season
 
P-Nut said:
When compared to the players of his age that are rated in the same bracket he is currently behind, where we thought he'd be.

He was in match day squads at the start of the season, and now doesn't get anywhere near them. He was ahead of say Williams at the start of the year, and despite having only 2 CMs fit for part of the season still couldn't get on the field.

I rate him massively, but think he'll take a little longer to come through than most expected, with a loan looking likely next year, rather than the gradual implementation to the first team that looked likely at the start of the season.
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Which players are you comparing him to? Can you actually name these players?
What is he behind at? Match appearances?
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Which players are you comparing him to? Can you actually name these players?
What is he behind at? Match appearances?
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Williams, Greenwood, Chong as well as Gomes who despite never playing actually makes the bench on a rare occasion.

He's played 8 minutes of premier League football. For a player many were expecting to get minutes this season he's behind were we would have expected. I don't see the problem with stating the obvious. It doesn't mean he's not going to make it, just things haven't progressed as quickly as expected.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I agree with the other poster. He has looked shy when playing for the first team and I think that's why we've seen so little of him this season. He needs more time to grow his confidence to compete at senior level He's a much more talented footballer than Williams but Williams has that fearless mentality to mix it at senior level.
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Agreed. I think a loan next season has to be the next step for him and I think it would do wonders for him, whether it sets him up for a future for us or elsewhere.
 
I rarely watch our academy matches this season. Has this guy been playing advanced role or something? If I am not mistake he has good number amount of goals this season (none of them were set pieces) especially for a player who is in the category of no 6.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
I rarely watch our academy matches this season. Has this guy been playing advanced role or something? If I am not mistake he has good number amount of goals this season (none of them were set pieces) especially for a player who is in the category of no 6.
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He’s generally played a more 8 role this season. The midfield 3 are all very flexible and typically rotated a lot in their play which gave him a lot of freedom to get up the pitch.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
"He has looked shy when playing for the first team" <- Any chance that might be because he's unfamiliar with tactics, or his fellow players? Of course not - he's a kid - so blame it on nebulous 'lack of confidence'.

Lack of confidence seems to me a lazy catch-all term for he's not as useful as Fred, Matic, or McTominay; because he lacks their experience, physique, and familiarity with other first team players and tactics.
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Spot on
 
Mark Pawelek said:
"He has looked shy when playing for the first team" <- Any chance that might be because he's unfamiliar with tactics, or his fellow players? Of course not - he's a kid - so blame it on nebulous 'lack of confidence'.

Lack of confidence seems to me a lazy catch-all term for he's not as useful as Fred, Matic, or McTominay; because he lacks their experience, physique, and familiarity with other first team players and tactics.
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I’m confused but doesn’t someone normally gain confidence through experience and familiarity with their surroundings? You’re pretty much saying the same thing, but in more words.
 
Interesting what Fred said about Garner in a Brazilian magazine.

'The young player who impresses me most is Jimmy Garner.'

'Not just because he is in the same position as me, but because he is a player who has an impressive vision of the game, and he has a huge future for United. In addition to his impressive game vision, he always plays with his head up, has an impressive shot and is an incredible passer. He is a player that I admire a lot.’


https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/23/fred...player-12597105/?ito=newsnow-feed?ito=cbshare
 
Love to hear senior players saying nice things about the youngsters like that. It must be a big boost to the confidence to hear it.

And those comments from Fred certainly back up what we've seen on the pitch for the reserves and in little flashes in his first team cameos.
 
I've always thought that Garner has looked very good when exposed to the first team. I've certainly not had the impression that he has been 'shy' as some posters have stated.

Remember, even for senior players transferring to Utd, playing for us is intimidating! The expectation and scrutiny is immense!

I really hope that the club's long term strategy continues to be to integrate players like Garner into the first team. I'd rather have the majority of the squad made up of homegrown players and supplemented by real quality as opposed to hordes of players bought in from middle-tier teams as we saw under Moyes, LvG and Jose
 
Love this - Jimmy will be a first teamer and brought on like McTominay.

Also respect Fred for talking about our youngsters in such a way. He’s come a long way in a season.
 
Champagne Football said:
Interesting what Fred said about Garner in a Brazilian magazine.

'The young player who impresses me most is Jimmy Garner.'

'Not just because he is in the same position as me, but because he is a player who has an impressive vision of the game, and he has a huge future for United. In addition to his impressive game vision, he always plays with his head up, has an impressive shot and is an incredible passer. He is a player that I admire a lot.’
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Interesting.
Other than the shots, yet to see the other three.
Must be impressive during trainings.
 
If we get McTominay, Garner and Mejbri to be part of our midfield options for some years it would be huge boost for the academy.
 
It's so hard to judge, unless you are seeing the player train regularly I suppose.

There are so many players we have got excited about watching U18 and Reserve team football.

Mats Daelhi
Joe Rothwell
Sean Goss
Larnell Cole
Tom Thorpe
Ravel Morrison
Josh King
Frederico Macheda
James Wilson
Adnan Januzaj

It's easy to discount these players since they've not made it at United, but the excitement and appreciation of their talent was pretty widespread.

The last of those 3 got opportunities, and it couldn't have started better for them. Goals on their debut, promising comments from fans and commentators alike, all with impressive performances and records at Reserve Team level. James Wilson was a ridiculously natural finisher, quick, could pick a great run in behind and take players on.

Everyone said Ravel had the talent, I watched a fair bit of him and am inclined to agree, but has never once showed that in senior football.

Tom Thorpe was a hugely highly regarded CB, Mr Reliable at Reserve Team level and arguably deserved a chance at first team level...especially when we were playing Carrick at CB. It never came and, again, after leaving United has struggled to find his level since in first team football.

Rothwell and Goss earned great praise for assured, calm performances built on really solid passing ability...again their opportunities never came....Rothwell is creating a decent career for himself at Championship level so far, last I saw of Goss he struggled at Rangers, and was back in Scotland first division on loan from Shrewbury.

Daelhi impressed massively time after time when I watched him in U18 level. He had a bit of everything, goals, created numerous chances, could pop up anywhere across that line between oppo midfield and defence, just had that knack for finding space. He was sold to Cardiff with Eikrem when Ole took the job. Similarly, Cole went to Fulham along with Tunnicliffe when Rene Mulensteen got the Fulham job. Tunnicliffe earned high praise, along with Ben Pearson from folks on here....though I personally didn't see United first team in them....but both Tunnicliffe and particularly Pearson are having good careers in the Championship, just read Larnell Cole is playing at FC United.

I guess the quite long winded point I'm making is you just never can tell how a given player's talent will translate on the bigger stage, at a higher level and under greater scrutiny and expectation.

Darren Fletcher was widely regarded as one of the biggest midfield talents in the U18 and Reserves, he was mentioned frequently. It took him years to develop into that mould at first team level.

He got stick from fans and media alike, at best writing him off as several levels below United grade, and at worst Fergies illegitimate love child.

Jesus, after the abuse I've seen the likes of Rashford get on here after a couple of bad games on the trot, I can only imagine there would have been calls for Fletch to be sold for 2 bob to Macclesfield.

Scott McTominay I'd never have pegged to be one of those that would start regularly for United. But, he's improved no end over the course of the last year, and though I accept we should be looking at additional talent in midfield, if he continues he should have a thoroughly decent United career.

I think it's particularly difficult for young players in central midfield, the level of positional responsibility and finding the balance between cobtributing to attacking play whilst not leaving your defence exposed for example? Maybe that's over stating it but, I don't know.
 
You can't be sure where it will end for kids. The fact you are talented and above generation in U18, doesn't mean that you will be the first team or even squad player in a year or two. It is weird age for those kids, being 17 or 18, with some money in your pocket and potential to become star, will bring you these days even more problems than decade or two ago. So, they need to have right mentality, right attitude, and normal people around them.

On the other hand, honestly, in terms of football quality, boys today are much better than kids you are talking about. Deahli, Cole, Rothwell, Goss, Thorpe, have been good in our team, more like stars in pretty average teams. Ravel obviously attitude problem, he could be a star with different mentality and surrounding. Januzaj, Wilson, Macheda...well, those three I think had excellent situation to succeed, which means to become first team players, but obviously did not work hard and could cope with pressure on the final step. With Fletcher attitude and working habits, they would be our players for 10 years or so. Januzaj still made a decent career, Wilson and Macheda failed. King had good career, with 5 PL seasons and like 50 goals, it is decent. Not United level, similar to Januzaj, but more than decent player.

With Garner, I don't think the problem is attitude and doesn't look like it will ever be. I think it is more experience, and waiting for the right moment for him to develop. He is somewehere in the limbo between first team and U23. Too good for U23, and still not good enough for starting lineup in PL game. Looks to me that Ole will use him whenever there is opportunity in League Cup and FA Cup, Europe maybe, as he already proved he can play on that level. Decision making is extremely important in that position, and he still use risky passes that against top side would be punished. He is close enough I think. When you consider that during preseason he was just around the team, missing a few games, than moved to reserves in the final stage. He made that step, he needs to make another one and have patience.
 
londonredmaniac said:
It's so hard to judge, unless you are seeing the player train regularly I suppose.

There are so many players we have got excited about watching U18 and Reserve team football.

Mats Daelhi
Joe Rothwell
Sean Goss
Larnell Cole
Tom Thorpe
Ravel Morrison
Josh King
Frederico Macheda
James Wilson
Adnan Januzaj

It's easy to discount these players since they've not made it at United, but the excitement and appreciation of their talent was pretty widespread.

The last of those 3 got opportunities, and it couldn't have started better for them. Goals on their debut, promising comments from fans and commentators alike, all with impressive performances and records at Reserve Team level. James Wilson was a ridiculously natural finisher, quick, could pick a great run in behind and take players on.

Everyone said Ravel had the talent, I watched a fair bit of him and am inclined to agree, but has never once showed that in senior football.

Tom Thorpe was a hugely highly regarded CB, Mr Reliable at Reserve Team level and arguably deserved a chance at first team level...especially when we were playing Carrick at CB. It never came and, again, after leaving United has struggled to find his level since in first team football.

Rothwell and Goss earned great praise for assured, calm performances built on really solid passing ability...again their opportunities never came....Rothwell is creating a decent career for himself at Championship level so far, last I saw of Goss he struggled at Rangers, and was back in Scotland first division on loan from Shrewbury.

Daelhi impressed massively time after time when I watched him in U18 level. He had a bit of everything, goals, created numerous chances, could pop up anywhere across that line between oppo midfield and defence, just had that knack for finding space. He was sold to Cardiff with Eikrem when Ole took the job. Similarly, Cole went to Fulham along with Tunnicliffe when Rene Mulensteen got the Fulham job. Tunnicliffe earned high praise, along with Ben Pearson from folks on here....though I personally didn't see United first team in them....but both Tunnicliffe and particularly Pearson are having good careers in the Championship, just read Larnell Cole is playing at FC United.

I guess the quite long winded point I'm making is you just never can tell how a given player's talent will translate on the bigger stage, at a higher level and under greater scrutiny and expectation.

Darren Fletcher was widely regarded as one of the biggest midfield talents in the U18 and Reserves, he was mentioned frequently. It took him years to develop into that mould at first team level.

He got stick from fans and media alike, at best writing him off as several levels below United grade, and at worst Fergies illegitimate love child.

Jesus, after the abuse I've seen the likes of Rashford get on here after a couple of bad games on the trot, I can only imagine there would have been calls for Fletch to be sold for 2 bob to Macclesfield.

Scott McTominay I'd never have pegged to be one of those that would start regularly for United. But, he's improved no end over the course of the last year, and though I accept we should be looking at additional talent in midfield, if he continues he should have a thoroughly decent United career.

I think it's particularly difficult for young players in central midfield, the level of positional responsibility and finding the balance between cobtributing to attacking play whilst not leaving your defence exposed for example? Maybe that's over stating it but, I don't know.
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"Everyone said Ravel had the talent, I watched a fair bit of him and am inclined to agree, but has never once showed that in senior football."

Good post and I appreciate the update on a few of those long forgotten lads. I just question that part above, because I remember Ravel scoring an awesome goal once in the Prem. Maybe for West Ham? It is fuzzy in my mind and I hoping someone can save me, but I remember bursting through the middle and scoring a very nice solo effort, maybe against Spurs.

So he has shown something, at least once!
 
Sea-Cow said:
"Everyone said Ravel had the talent, I watched a fair bit of him and am inclined to agree, but has never once showed that in senior football."

Good post and I appreciate the update on a few of those long forgotten lads. I just question that part above, because I remember Ravel scoring an awesome goal once in the Prem. Maybe for West Ham? It is fuzzy in my mind and I hoping someone can save me, but I remember bursting through the middle and scoring a very nice solo effort, maybe against Spurs.

So he has shown something, at least once!
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Scored a worldie of a solo effort against Spurs playing for West Ham
 
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