James Garner (out)

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The fee is alright and I do rate him.

Would have preferred a buyback clause, but if there is a sell on it's actually ok.

Needs playing time, he won't get it at United for at least 2-3 years and we are still on the market for another midfielder.

At least we're getting something in return.
 
Shit deal. If there is no buy back clause, the fee should have been higher.

But I do agree that it's time to sell. Sitting on the bench behind McFred and VDB would do him no good.
 
mikeyt said:
Right move for him but how we aren't getting at least £15million upfront rising to £20million+ is shocking.
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We can barely get that for England internationals, you're woefully optimistic to think we'd get anywhere near that for a guy with next to zero experience.
 
Remember the geese said:
£20-30m.
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What’s most surprising is that the team (Forest) that watched him play all of last season didn’t place a higher bid than Everton. It doesn’t look like there was a bidding war at all.
 
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Lots of over rating of Garner in here.

You can tell nobody actually watched much of Forest last season and probably only saw clips that were posted to Twitter.
 
Vapor trail said:
Not a good deal the club need to recruit better people for negotiations
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Murtough is going from bad to worse. His performance in terms of transfers/in/out/players not moved on/value for money on transfers both ways/hassle caused and overall improvement of the squad, when you factor all those variables in…..is an absolute car crash.
Now he’s going to have to employ more people to do yet more aspects of his job that he is shite at.
 
The valutation of Garner of many people in this thread is absolutely crazy. He isn't anywhere near good enough to be a starter at this club or most other top10 clubs. 30 mill.. some of you are crazy. 15mil seems about right. Young and english thats about it.
 
Pogba's Barber said:
I think 10-15m is probably about right. His market value is about 6m according to TransferMakt

30m for James Garner would be crazy. Andreas Pereira went for 8.5 (which is probably a little low due to his contract situation, but still)
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Well when I see some of the crazy fees that Liverpool have got in the past for players or what Forest have paid for Gibbs-White, then I wouldn't mind some of that for us. It's not as if Garner is on massive wages. £30m would be top heavy, but £15-20m with add ons taking it to £25m isn't crazy.
 
Remember the geese said:
Well when I see some of the crazy fees that Liverpool have got in the past for players or what Forest have paid for Gibbs-White, then I wouldn't mind some of that for us. It's not as if Garner is on massive wages. £30m would be top heavy, but £15-20m with add ons taking it to £25m isn't crazy.
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There's differences though.

Wolves didn't want to sell Gibbs-White which will raise the fee. He was also a lot better than Garner last season. (£40m is still too much but that does include some ridiculous add ons).

A lot of Liverpool's sales have been for attackers which always sell for more than midfielders/defenders.
 
STaphouse said:
There's differences though.

Wolves didn't want to sell Gibbs-White which will raise the fee. He was also a lot better than Garner last season. (£40m is still too much but that does include some ridiculous add ons).

A lot of Liverpool's sales have been for attackers which always sell for more than midfielders/defenders.
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I know that it rises to £15m, but come on, £9m? That's pathetic. To paraphase a great man...£9m should be for his corners alone.
 
I think it's a mistake not having a buy back clause and I think he's worth £17-20m personally, to the right club.

He has experience playing almost every game in a championship winning side. There are plenty of players that have done well at that level and gone on to succeed in the Premier league. Having top level experience isn't the be all and end all. I think he needs regular football and I hope he gets that at Everton, could be a future england international if he kicks on.
 
For people saying we should have gotten 30M for him, Transfermarkt has him as 7M.

The sensible deal would've been selling to Forest, but I think Ten Hag wanted to look at him. The fact that Iqbal and Savage got more game time that him in preseason is a good assessment of Ten Hag don't rating him.

He's 21, with Casemiro, Eriksen, McTominay, Fred and VdB in front on him. Another loan made no sense and he wasn't going to get any minutes this season.

15M is a good selling value, would've loved to that a buy back clause but you rarely use those.
 
Pogba's Barber said:
The guy has barely played a minute of premier league football. How much were people expecting for him?
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Djed Spence and James Lewis Potter both went for £20m. Very similar profile of player as Garner. Same age, capped for England at u21 level. Neither played a minute of Premier League football. Both sold by Championship clubs, were £20m would be a decent percentage of their revenue.

We constantly overpay for players, clubs sign our dead wood on loans, or miniscule fees. We reek of desperation. Even when selling a really nice asset, young, talented, English, low wage, great attitude, decent injury record, but instead of being the ones to finally be in a position of power in a transfer negotiation we settle for a fair to slightly low fee.
 
I think that's a bad move for him.
Everton have a really average manager and it's a club without long term strategy. He may get lost there. Anyway, good luck to him. The money are OK. Maybe we have some sell ons.
 
Fortitude said:
I think that's theoretically true, but teams like Liverpool, Chelsea and City manage to get really good fees for players who clearly won't make it at those clubs and it throws me that we're so far off the pace with that. £14m is pitiful unless he's got less than 2yrs left on his contract, or we're inserting a buyback - legitimately parachute club prices.

Are you referring to Conor Gallagher? If yes, I'd not want my club selling him until dead certain he won't make it.
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I think that's a poor way of looking at it. Your own players should be evaluated with the same lens as any external football - I'd argue with even more scrutiny because you should have way more data and information on them.

I mean if you can't make your mind up about a player like Garner, what gives you any confidence we know what we're doing when going out to spend £80m on a 22 year old Antony? If you can't tell how good the players you've got on your books are, you've got to seriously question your decision making when it comes to players out of the club. In both cases, you've got to act with conviction which we've never seemed to have done.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
The club making a song & dance of bringing him back after a successful loan spell only to play him sparingly [injury played some role] then flog him for pennies whilst Forest have been running round spending like a kid who just got money at Christmas. What I’m on about is why is the club selling him on deadline day when he’s never been a first teamer in the first place.

Replace ‘Forest’ with a myriad of clubs, what I’m on about is the time to sell Garner was off the back of the immediate back of that loan spell not dithering until deadline day.

Now jump back in your box.
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It was moderately successful; he wasn't one of their few stand-out players. He was injured at the start of pre-season anyway, which would have hindered an early sale. Plus Utd hadn't yet signed FDJ or Casemiro yet and so might not have been in a position to get rid of another midfielder straight away either. Ten Hag might have also wanted to have a look at him in training before approving a sale.

If Forest were so pleased wtth him that they'd have been happy to splash out on him at the start of the window, they likely still would have been in the last couple of weeks as well - it's hardly as if they've stopped spending!
 
footballbite said:
Except Guehi and Spence both impressed far more in the Championship than Garner did.
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I'll admit Guehi was very impressive, but not twice as impressive and midfielders/attackers generally go for more than defenders.

Spence and Garner were pretty much level, even then Spence was a defender and went for more than Garner.

All I'm saying is that it's a crappy deal, we've probably paid the price for having a new manager take a look over him during pre season - it shouldn't be a reflection on Garner how poor this deal is for us.
 
romufc said:
Oh Ofcourse posters are not clued up but you are?

Its called scouting, City have a great youth academy and the players are playing a certain brand. Which is why they are getting such prices.

Garner was on loan at Forest, they decided to spend 150m+ and decided Garner is not worth £9m must tell you something about him.
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Judging by them saying £9m for a young English player is decent then I'd say I'm more clued up on recent ish transfers from the championship yes - hence me giving a few examples.

We also have a great academy? That's a moot point.

And they wanted him, we just wanted our new manager to look over the player which has probably cost us a few million, which I'm actually not against.

It's just a number of poor transfers we've been involved in that's made these deal look even worse.
 
STaphouse said:
Lots of over rating of Garner in here.

You can tell nobody actually watched much of Forest last season and probably only saw clips that were posted to Twitter.
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That might be true but the fee is nothing short of abysmal..
 
Faetheshire86 said:
Djed Spence and James Lewis Potter both went for £20m. Very similar profile of player as Garner. Same age, capped for England at u21 level. Neither played a minute of Premier League football. Both sold by Championship clubs, were £20m would be a decent percentage of their revenue.

We constantly overpay for players, clubs sign our dead wood on loans, or miniscule fees. We reek of desperation. Even when selling a really nice asset, young, talented, English, low wage, great attitude, decent injury record, but instead of being the ones to finally be in a position of power in a transfer negotiation we settle for a fair to slightly low fee.
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These player comparisons are in different context.

It costs more to pry promising young talent from the hands of smaller clubs, than to take Garner from a club with a bloated squad, massive wage bill and almost 150m outlay this summer. United don't have as much leverage in selling Garner as Middleborough did with Spence. The values are partially drawn from how important the player is to the selling club.

Edit - also Lewis Potter is 16m, rising to 20m in add-ons, and he's a striker!
 
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For some reason I thought the likes of Ibe, Solanke and Bowen had all transferred for ~£30m, so £15m seemed low, but checking I think they went for more like 15-20m so the fee seems about right.
 
yumtum said:
Judging by them saying £9m for a young English player is decent then I'd say I'm more clued up on recent ish transfers from the championship yes - hence me giving a few examples.

We also have a great academy? That's a moot point.

And they wanted him, we just wanted our new manager to look over the player which has probably cost us a few million, which I'm actually not against.

It's just a number of poor transfers we've been involved in that's made these deal look even worse.
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I think you will realise that City have a better academy in recent years.

Unfortunately for us, the owners have not really cared about anything other than commercial revenue whereas City invested heavily into their structure, facilities and youth development where alot of young players are ending up there.

Its just a better place to be in terms of facilities and quality of development.

We have never been good at transfers, be it buying or selling, neither are we good at talent finding, or realising a players potential.

Loads of examples can be given, Ramsdale going for 30m whilst we cant get a buyer for Henderson.
Guehi like you said whilst we instead decided to keep Tuanzebe is 9th choice.

The Garner deal is nothing new.
 
romufc said:
I think you will realise that City have a better academy in recent years.

Unfortunately for us, the owners have not really cared about anything other than commercial revenue whereas City invested heavily into their structure, facilities and youth development where alot of young players are ending up there.

Its just a better place to be in terms of facilities and quality of development.

We have never been good at transfers, be it buying or selling, neither are we good at talent finding, or realising a players potential.

Loads of examples can be given, Ramsdale going for 30m whilst we cant get a buyer for Henderson.
Guehi like you said whilst we instead decided to keep Tuanzebe is 9th choice.

The Garner deal is nothing new.
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What a way to rewrite the clubs history :lol:
 
TheReligion said:
What a way to rewrite the clubs history :lol:
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Apologies, I meant in the last decade or so. Oh also, I am not talking about signing a player for 100m which any one with a brain can see is good. I.E Sancho.

I am talking about the likes of Haaland, Bellingham, Caceido, who we could have got if we were remotely a well run club.

I'm sorry you feel differently.
 
romufc said:
Apologies, I meant in the last decade or so. Oh also, I am not talking about signing a player for 100m which any one with a brain can see is good. I.E Sancho.

I am talking about the likes of Haaland, Bellingham, Caceido, who we could have got if we were remotely a well run club.

I'm sorry you feel differently.
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Within the last 10 odd years, sure, but you said we have 'never' been good.
 
romufc said:
Apologies, I meant in the last decade or so. Oh also, I am not talking about signing a player for 100m which any one with a brain can see is good. I.E Sancho.

I am talking about the likes of Haaland, Bellingham, Caceido, who we could have got if we were remotely a well run club.

I'm sorry you feel differently.
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I think instead of being so dramatic you could have wrote ‘we’ve struggled with XY and Z over the past 10 years or so and we’ve fallen behind City in terms of facilities’

I’m not sure who we have signed for £100m either? Sancho was around £70m from memory. Or are you just being deliberately OTT to try and emphasise a point?
 
romufc said:
I think you will realise that City have a better academy in recent years.

Unfortunately for us, the owners have not really cared about anything other than commercial revenue whereas City invested heavily into their structure, facilities and youth development where alot of young players are ending up there.

Its just a better place to be in terms of facilities and quality of development.

We have never been good at transfers, be it buying or selling, neither are we good at talent finding, or realising a players potential.

Loads of examples can be given, Ramsdale going for 30m whilst we cant get a buyer for Henderson.
Guehi like you said whilst we instead decided to keep Tuanzebe is 9th choice.

The Garner deal is nothing new.
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Specifically what are the facilities at City that we don't have at Carrington.

The facilities that produce better youth players I mean.
 
I’d have been very surprised if you’d ever needed to use a buy back. For that to happen, he’d need to go to Everton and regularly be one of the best midfielders outside the top 4, but 9 million rising to 15.5 is very low considering there were multiple clubs in and it’s Everton who are buying. They bought Iwobi for 40 million…
 
Faetheshire86 said:
Djed Spence and James Lewis Potter both went for £20m. Very similar profile of player as Garner. Same age, capped for England at u21 level. Neither played a minute of Premier League football. Both sold by Championship clubs, were £20m would be a decent percentage of their revenue.

We constantly overpay for players, clubs sign our dead wood on loans, or miniscule fees. We reek of desperation. Even when selling a really nice asset, young, talented, English, low wage, great attitude, decent injury record, but instead of being the ones to finally be in a position of power in a transfer negotiation we settle for a fair to slightly low fee.
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Lewis Potter is 16 rising to 20? He also scored like 13 goals in Championship last year and generally should be valued higher due to being a forward.

For a little context Bissouma - one of the most promising midfielders in PL got sold to Spurs for 25 rising to 35 and people expect Garner to go for such amount?

McNeil, close to 150 appearances in PL went for 20m including addons.

Fabio Carvalho 8m including addons - had both PL experience and coming from a pretty good Championship season.

Neco Williams - 17m, capped at international level, played for Pool in PL and Fulham in the Championship.

Nathan Collins - experience both in PL and Championship. Capped for Ireland. CB who also had very fine second half of the season allowing Burnely to stay up - went for 20m, 1 year into 4 years contract..

So all in all 9 rising to 15 is probably around market value for someone who never featured in PL, hasn't been capped internationally and is surplus to the team that owns his rights.
 
TheReligion said:
I think instead of being so dramatic you could have wrote ‘we’ve struggled with XY and Z over the past 10 years or so and we’ve fallen behind City in terms of facilities’

I’m not sure who we have signed for £100m either? Sancho was around £70m from memory. Or are you just being deliberately OTT to try and emphasise a point?
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Right, as you are aware mistakes happen, I corrected myself saying in the last decade. In the second comment, I dont see what is wrong.

None of our facilities are state of the art, Oh yes, I am being dramatic and OTT.

https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/...-emerge-leading-to-casey-stoneys-resignation/

United women unable to use showers, ofcourse, you think that is fine I guess.

Then this season, we made minor upgrades based on Ronaldo's recommendations, because he was so shocked nothing had changed since he left, broken tiles in the pool.

Ofcourse, again its OTT right.
 
Marwood said:
Specifically what are the facilities at City that we don't have at Carrington.

The facilities that produce better youth players I mean.
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I don't need to argue with someone who thinks our training facilities are on par with City.
 
Rocksy said:
I’d have been very surprised if you’d ever needed to use a buy back. For that to happen, he’d need to go to Everton and regularly be one of the best midfielders outside the top 4, but 9 million rising to 15.5 is very low considering there were multiple clubs in and it’s Everton who are buying. They bought Iwobi for 40 million…
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In this case we probably sold Garner for 20m..
 
romufc said:
Right, as you are aware mistakes happen, I corrected myself saying in the last decade. In the second comment, I dont see what is wrong.

None of our facilities are state of the art, Oh yes, I am being dramatic and OTT.

https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/...-emerge-leading-to-casey-stoneys-resignation/

United women unable to use showers, ofcourse, you think that is fine I guess.

Then this season, we made minor upgrades based on Ronaldo's recommendations, because he was so shocked nothing had changed since he left, broken tiles in the pool.

Ofcourse, again its OTT right.
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It’s okay. We will just have to fact check your posts from here on in. It’s no problem.

I will add our youth team won the FA cup recently and despite the lagging facilities we are still creating talented professional footballers. There’s high hopes for many of this current crop.

Additionally whilst we have been poor at selling that has improved in recent times. Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Lukaku all pretty much recouped their fees for example.

Obviously we’ve struggled for any sort of consistency on and off the pitch post Sir Alex but I’d rather be hopeful of the new regime than continually dig up the past as a stick to be negative and dramatic about.
 
Pogba's Barber said:
These player comparisons are in different context.

It costs more to pry promising young talent from the hands of smaller clubs, than to take Garner from a club with a bloated squad, massive wage bill and almost 150m outlay this summer. United don't have as much leverage in selling Garner as Middleborough did with Spence. The values are partially drawn from how important the player is to the selling club.

Edit - also Lewis Potter is 16m, rising to 20m in add-ons, and he's a striker!
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I disagree, especially with the part in bold.
  • Who is £15m/£20m worth more to? United or Middlesbrough?
  • Which player is more likely to be pushing for a move? A guy who is at a club who didn't want him last year, is moving up a division and will be getting a serious hike in wage or the guy moving from United to Everton?
We do have a massive wage bill, but I'm pretty confident as a percentage we will be freeing up less than the other clubs.

I don't believe we are under any pressure to sell Garner.
 
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