Yup, just kinda how it seems to work in the modern game. The pressure to stay competitive is so strong that it’s hard to gamble on younger players unless they look like a dead cert, and you can’t just keep loaning younger players out because they will no incentive to renew their contracts.
James Garner (out)
- Thread starter Marcus
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Yup, just kinda how it seems to work in the modern game. The pressure to stay competitive is so strong that it’s hard to gamble on younger players unless they look like a dead cert, and you can’t just keep loaning younger players out because they will no incentive to renew their contracts.
Garner is talented midfielder with a lot of upside. 14m is really cheap. As others said we need either percentage of future sale or buyback clause..
I think we quite often over value our players, especially the youth. Only natural as they are often untarnished from the first teams poor performance and we hold hopes that they will break in and improve the quality. With Garner, the long and short of it is he's just not good enough. He had a decent (not mind blowing) season in the championship where he looked like a decent championship player. He's never going to break in to our first team, especially when we have possibly the best player in his position in the world there now for 3-4 yrs and we have IMO bigger talents in Zidane Iqbal and Charlie Savage.
What would be the value of a championship midfielder that has played 99% of his senior games playing for Forest and Watford? I'd say about £15-20m.
What would be the value of a championship midfielder that has played 99% of his senior games playing for Forest and Watford? I'd say about £15-20m.
Why not give him for free while we at it, they dont mind selling Garner but when it comes to letting go feckers to be become free agent instead of selling them 1 year before, God forbid that.
I hope and pray there is a buy-back option.
Can't believe we play McTominay ad nauseum and this guy can't get a sniff.
Can't believe we play McTominay ad nauseum and this guy can't get a sniff.
Is he going to be Steven Gerrard this kid?
Is he better than Tom Cleverley real talk?
£15m should include a buy back clause - poor business if not.
With the market how it is we should really have been looking for over £20m if there was no buy back.
With the market how it is we should really have been looking for over £20m if there was no buy back.
He's obviously not that good. Watched a few Forest games last season and he didn't stand out as anything special. Will have a good career and wish him well.
McTominay may not be great but there's nothing to suggest Garner is any better. Frankly if our recruitment was half decent we'd have sold McTominay years ago too. He's not the yard stick to judge players against
sell low buy high, that's our motto
The same. I don’t know why people are so angry about this. I suppose people just like to moan.
I hope he has a great career but people on here and what I’ve seen are acting like this guy has Paul Pogba ability.
Think we shouldn't sell for less than £20 million. So Everton will be coming out ahead if it goes through at 15
Can see him playing for England in the next 2 or 3 seasons and at that point he'll be worth double
Can see him playing for England in the next 2 or 3 seasons and at that point he'll be worth double
Would have rather kept him, he is a decent kid still learning, going to Everton should make him better, he should get more starts.
Maybe a loan deal would have been better.
Maybe a loan deal would have been better.
Another failure in integrating promising youth. He's more than good enough to get games here.
We're just not very good at giving youth a chance anymore. All the other top clubs have far exceeded us in that regard.
We're just not very good at giving youth a chance anymore. All the other top clubs have far exceeded us in that regard.
The ability to not show for the 1st team?
You are right nowt like Pogba, I have never seen Garner
a) roll around on on the floor punching it occasionally having conceded possession because he tried to take on too many players
b) stand around for 80 out of 90 minutes with his hands on his hips
(the list was going to be longer but TBH I cannot think of anything else Pogba actually did to make any comparison, tell a lie Pogba had the incredible ability of conning thousands of people into believing he has any worthwhile qualities as a footballer)
Fans love homegrown players, which is understandable but sometimes I think it affects their judgement and common sense.
Neither are most of the Liverpool players who went for twice that. Think that is what's annoying people. If you are going to sell, get a bloody good price.
Maybe he does then
sorry, but had to go for that low hanging fruit.Well we have to accept we have idiots doing transfers. Either way he’s only a £20m player max. He’s a CM that can pass. They aren’t hard to come by.
Bang average player goes for bang average sum...
It’s more important to sell. We’ve had players rotting at the club for far too long because their valuation has been too high.
The fact is Garner is completely unproven at this level he isn’t worth much more yet.
I was expecting it.Thanks for the helpful write up (if I was a scout I would give this a like!).
So it sounds like £15m is a reasonable amount. Hopefully we can get a sell on fee in there too.
The positive is this is money that will be thrown back into the "last minute transfer" pot? doubt it
Sorry dude, but this would be a crazy bad idea. McT might not be top quality, but he’s definitely has attributes we need in a season and will provide adequate cover. Replacing him with an unproven player is a massive massive risk.
McT is on low wages, young, and isn’t a difficult personality. He’s a very useful squad member.
Decent player, not good enough for us. Get rid.
What we have been missing then.
Thanks to Jose we have one player in McTominay who under a different manager would have gone the same way years ago.
4 different managers have chosen to use McTominay…
A little disappointed we didn't really give him a chance but to be honest, I doubt that he will ever reach the required level to start for us. Every time I've watched him, he looks weak, slow and too passive. Even his passing hasn't reallt impressed me. Should do well a level or two below United though.
I still don't get it though, he hides, he cannot pass that well, but beats his chest in big games. Is that really enough? By the way I am not saying we shouldn't sell him and he needs games to develop. However It will depend how much we get. If we do not get FDJ then not sure what to think.
Which EPL clubs? Outside of Arsenal, I am struggling to think of other top 6 teams, barring injury or generational talents, that are giving youth a chance every year. Mason was brought on pretty early before he decided to throw it all away. Also, Arsenal have always been keen on their youth players.
Possibly. Or cover wages or a previous purchase (such as Malacia).
£14m sounds cheap but the McTominay comparisons are way off....McTominay is a far, far superior player to Garner right at this minute.
I watched Garner a fair bit last year at Forest, he was a 'good' Championship-level midfield who has a fair chance of becoming a 'decent' Premier League midfielder...but I'd say that's about the limit.
As we have discussed before (and it gets tiring keep making the same points), McTominay is being judged against 'elite' standards for a side who are supposed to be 'elite', playing against 'elite' level opposition every week. If you shone the same spotlight on Garner, you would very quickly see his limitations.
I watched Garner a fair bit last year at Forest, he was a 'good' Championship-level midfield who has a fair chance of becoming a 'decent' Premier League midfielder...but I'd say that's about the limit.
As we have discussed before (and it gets tiring keep making the same points), McTominay is being judged against 'elite' standards for a side who are supposed to be 'elite', playing against 'elite' level opposition every week. If you shone the same spotlight on Garner, you would very quickly see his limitations.
Liverpool would’ve got at least £30 million+ for him.
Yup I wasn't really impressed by his performances for Forest to be honest. Even though I wanted to be.
He would only be a squad player at best, £15m even without a buy back is great. This is what we need to do more of, loan out academy players so they develop a bit of a reputation and then sell them with a % of future fee.
We should have a first option/buy back clause on all academy players, just in case they turn out better than expected once sold.
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