James Ducker: United prepared to listen to offers for Smalling

devilish said:
I disagree. Jeez Im the last person on earth that should be defending Smalling, there again, some people seem to have short memories indeed.
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Short memories?! He's been with United for seven years and only once missed fewer than 13 PL games with injuries. He's averaged just over 20 league games per season. Which means that, on average, he's missed almost every second match. For a player who plays in central defence that's diabolical.

Performance wise his best season, by a margin, was 2015/16. But even within that season he was inconsistent with a run of wretched performances at the business end of the season.

On his day he can play brilliantly but he's incredibly inconsistent, in every way. Which just won't do in a back four that hopes to win the title. Consistency is everything at the back.
 
prtk0811 said:
Should not sell him at all , he can still get games. He had a bad season but worth keeping him still.
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My argument on this regard is relatively simple. On paper Lindelof-Bailly seem to be a great duo. Lindelof is a great passer of the ball and is quite composed. Bailly on the other hand is the Vidic type of defender.

Now they have 2 weaknesses.

A- Inexperience. Both are 22 years old, with little experience in the EPL league and had never played together
B- They are not particularly great in air

We also need to consider whose going to cover/compete with the two

Now lets look at the candidates

- Rojo does have CB/EPL experience, but he's a meah CB at best. He's not great in air and tbf, apart from 4 months of decent football he's hardly done anything of note with United. He can cover for Lindelof but certianly not for Bailly.

- Blind is a midfielder. He can play in CB and is probably our best passer of the ball (Lindelof cover). However he lacks physicality, he's not a great defender and he's not great in air

- Jones has CB/EPL experience. Unlike the former two he has the characteristics to cover for Bailly. However he's injury record is embarassing

- Tuanzebe. He's seems to be quite good. However he lacks experience and ideally he should be sent on loan

Which leads us to Smalling. He's not the most intelligent defender in football but he's good in air, he's got plenty of experience and he can cover for Bailly.

So here is what I think we need a Bailly + cover and a Lindelof + cover. We also need experience

Tough CB: Bailly & Smalling
Ball playing CB: Lindelof & Rojo
Res: Blind

If Smalling leaves, he'll need to be replaced
 
prath92 said:
we sold Memphhs for about 17m pounds. No way will we sign off on Jones/Smalling being sold for less than 30m. Both have long contracts, are English and are internationals.
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Memphis was a young attacker with potential. With both Jones and Smalling none of those things apply, what you see is what you get. The English tax is all we can hope for. I'd take 20m for either.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Short memories?! He's been with United for seven years and only once missed fewer than 13 PL games with injuries. He's averaged just over 20 league games per season. Which means that, on average, he's missed almost every second match. For a player who plays in central defence that's diabolical.

Performance wise his best season, by a margin, was 2015/16. But even within that season he was inconsistent with a run of wretched performances at the business end of the season.

On his day he can play brilliantly but he's incredibly inconsistent, in every way. Which just won't do in a back four that hopes to win the title. Consistency is everything at the back.
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I was never a big fan of his. Having said that, if we've got to choose between him and Jones then its a no brainer. Jones is barely ever available.
 
devilish said:
I was never a big fan of his. Having said that, if we've got to choose between him and Jones then its a no brainer. Jones is barely ever available.
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Jones is a lot younger and more versatile so Jose probably thinks there's a lot more to come from him. Plus he had that run of really good performances alongside Rojo, last season, which will have helped his case. Smalling can't have impressed the manager at any point last season. Agree his injury record isn't great either.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jones is a lot younger and more versatile so Jose probably thinks there's a lot more to come from him. Plus he had that run of really good performances alongside Rojo, last season, which will have helped his case. Smalling can't have impressed the manager at any point last season. Agree his injury record isn't great.
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Jones is a liability. He is barely ever available
 
This is the time to sell. He;s not indispensable and he's almost 28.
That said he's an England X1 CB and has won multiple titles.
We should be demanding 25m at least.
Talk of 10m is a joke.
 
Keeping Jones and selling Smalling would be a mistake. They are around the same level, but Smalling is fir most of the time, Jones isn't.

Really, Jones needs to be on Baresi level to justify keeping him at the club. Being fit for 20 matches for season is not ok, and we should sell him before we think about selling Smalling.
 
He's never fulfilled the potential or at least the expectation we had of him a few years ago. He's 27 now and, in my opinion, will not progress anymore..certainly not on the ball. He's crap at bringing the ball out and forging an attack. One thing he is consistent in....is his injuries, which, come on, is hardly conducive in creating a reliable defensive unit. Even as a back up he wasn't that available last season. Don't dislike him at all, but he isn't the future, anyone can see that, even as a back-up.
 
Adisa said:
This is the time to sell. He;s not indispensable and he's almost 28.
That said he's an England X1 CB and has won multiple titles.
We should be demanding 25m at least.
Talk of 10m is a joke.
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Indeed 10m is a joke, who is daft enough to spend 10m on a player that can't stay fit?
 
JPRouve said:
Then it was a daft and proof that it shouldn't be done.
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Smalling is nowhere as injury prone as Hargreaves and Jones are. 10m for an English international defender whose very good on air and has CL experience is serious value. That United reject who played well for a couple of months with mighty Burnley is rated 25m.
 
They're both made of glass but Jones is twice the player Smalling is and also younger. I'd definitely sell Smalling.
 
devilish said:
Smalling is nowhere as injury prone as Hargreaves and Jones are. 10m for an English international defender whose very good on air and has CL experience is serious value. That United reject who played well for a couple of months with mighty Burnley is rated 25m.
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That English reject is fit though.
 
JPRouve said:
That English reject is fit though.
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That's around 150% increase on the fee. As said Smalling is nowhere near as injury prone as Jones and Hargreaves are/were. If Burnley 'legend' is worth 25m and the English Bambi on ice is worth 50m+ then Smalling is worth at least 20m.
 
Adisa said:
This is the time to sell. He;s not indispensable and he's almost 28.
That said he's an England X1 CB and has won multiple titles.
We should be demanding 25m at least.
Talk of 10m is a joke.
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I don't think we can demand anything for him tbh. Who would pay 25 mil for him? Who would pay 10?

I'm thinking realistic clubs would be Stoke, Newcastle, West Brom, West Ham. No top club would want him, or I'd be very surprised if they did!
 
prath92 said:
Not being available is not called being a liability. He played well most games he played. His only problem is fitness
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If he is not available then yes he is a liability. Believe it or not players are paid to play football not to entertain us with funny facial expressions
 
devilish said:
That's around 150% increase on the fee. As said Smalling is nowhere near as injury prone as Jones and Hargreaves are/were. If Burnley 'legend' is worth 25m and the English Bambi on ice is worth 50m+ then Smalling is worth at least 20m.
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That's your opinion, mine is that being available is the first quality in a player. If I can't count on him to be available when needed he is worthless.
 
JPRouve said:
That's your opinion, mine is that being available is the first quality in a player. If I can't count on him to be available when needed he is worthless.
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I see things from an Everton club type perspective. 10m for an experienced CB whose got injury problems but is available most of the time and whose extremely solid at the back is value. I also see it from a United perspective ie selling a decent defender like Smalling for peanuts is stupid especially when we've got a real English patient hiding somewhere in the treatment room. If no one is willing to spend at least 20m on Smalling then we should keep him and show Jones the door instead.
 
devilish said:
I see things from an Everton club type perspective. 10m for an experienced CB whose got injury problems but is available most of the time and whose extremely solid at the back is value. I also see it from a United perspective ie selling a decent defender like Smalling for peanuts is stupid especially when we've got a real English patient hiding somewhere in the treatment room. If no one is willing to spend at least 20m on Smalling then we should keep him and show Jones the door instead.
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Why Show anyone the door this season itself, We were fatigued so badly in the end of the campaign and we now play ucl football along with all the other cups and leagues, Wont fatigue creep in again? We should have the numbers in that case and smalling should not be sold at at all because ofthe aerial strenghts he has which is so useful in the league.
 
prtk0811 said:
Why Show anyone the door this season itself, We were fatigued so badly in the end of the campaign and we now play ucl football along with all the other cups and leagues, Wont fatigue creep in again? We should have the numbers in that case and smalling should not be sold at at all because ofthe aerial strenghts he has which is so useful in the league.
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I am referring to the concept that 1 United CB needs to leave to make space to Ray Wilkin's favourite new player
 
devilish said:
My argument on this regard is relatively simple. On paper Lindelof-Bailly seem to be a great duo. Lindelof is a great passer of the ball and is quite composed. Bailly on the other hand is the Vidic type of defender.

Now they have 2 weaknesses.


A- Inexperience. Both are 22 years old, with little experience in the EPL league and had never played together
B- They are not particularly great in air

We also need to consider whose going to cover/compete with the two

Now lets look at the candidates

- Rojo does have CB/EPL experience, but he's a meah CB at best. He's not great in air and tbf, apart from 4 months of decent football he's hardly done anything of note with United. He can cover for Lindelof but certianly not for Bailly.

- Blind is a midfielder. He can play in CB and is probably our best passer of the ball (Lindelof cover). However he lacks physicality, he's not a great defender and he's not great in air

- Jones has CB/EPL experience. Unlike the former two he has the characteristics to cover for Bailly. However he's injury record is embarassing

- Tuanzebe. He's seems to be quite good. However he lacks experience and ideally he should be sent on loan

Which leads us to Smalling. He's not the most intelligent defender in football but he's good in air, he's got plenty of experience and he can cover for Bailly.

So here is what I think we need a Bailly + cover and a Lindelof + cover. We also need experience

Tough CB: Bailly & Smalling
Ball playing CB: Lindelof & Rojo
Res: Blind

If Smalling leaves, he'll need to be replaced
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Also Smalling plays RCB better than LCB so He'll be a direct option on the bench for bailly who wont be involved for 60 plus games, and Rojo is a direct back up Option for Lindelof who's having his first season and Rojo isinjured himself so Jones will have to fill in there along with Blind. 5 Cb's are a must in such a long season While the bench options can still get 30 plus games.
 
devilish said:
I am referring to the concept that 1 United CB needs to leave to make space to Ray Wilkin's favourite new player
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Still we only have place on the bench and not the regular starting line up. So his career will be taking a step back.
 
prtk0811 said:
Also Smalling plays RCB better than LCB so He'll be a direct option on the bench for bailly who wont be involved for 60 plus games, and Rojo is a direct back up Option for Lindelof who's having his first season and Rojo isinjured himself so Jones will have to fill in there along with Blind. 5 Cb's are a must in such a long season While the bench options can still get 30 plus games.
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As long as we keep the balance (ie 2 hardtacklers + 2 ball playing defenders, I am quite open minded about how our defense is going to be). My only issue with your post is that you assume that Jones will be available if and when you need. That's not how things work with injury prone players. When first team players start getting injured, there's more emphasis on the reserves. Such intensity in training is usually enough to break those who are made of glass. That's why injury prone players tend to let you down when you need them the most.

The only reason why we should keep Jones is if we can't get rid of him. Even then, it would be stupid to rely on a player like him.
 
I will be against selling Smalling this season. He can do a job, he is in his prime, is english and we dont have too many defenders:
Lindelof, young player that needs to bed in.
Rojo, Bailly are liable to get a knock.
Jones, made of glass and completely unreliable, should not be counted as a viable option.
Blind, doesnt get injured a lot, but should be 5th choice.
Tuanzebe, should go on loan.


Lindelof, Rojo, Bailly, Smalling, Blind.
 
devilish said:
If he is not available then yes he is a liability. Believe it or not players are paid to play football not to entertain us with funny facial expressions
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Believe it or not, not being fit isn't being a liability. Liability if he was fit and then played badly. There's a difference
 
prath92 said:
Believe it or not, not being fit isn't being a liability. Liability if he was fit and then played badly. There's a difference
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So what benefits does an injured player have?
 
devilish said:
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As long as we keep the balance (ie 2 hardtacklers + 2 ball playing defenders, I am quite open minded about how our defense is going to be). My only issue with your post is that you assume that Jones will be available if and when you need. That's not how things work with injury prone players. When first team players start getting injured, there's more emphasis on the reserves. Such intensity in training is usually enough to break those who are made of glass. That's why injury prone players tend to let you down when you need them the most.

The only reason why we should keep Jones is if we can't get rid of him. Even then, it would be stupid to rely on a player like him.
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Jones is not reliable , but though when fit he gives his heart out and very mobile. I don't see any reason any of cbs which needs to go.
 
prath92 said:
He is part of the squad and plays well when he is fit. Was our CB in our best run this season too
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but he's rarely ever fit and lets face it, he's hardly a great defender either.
 
Jones should be worth significantly more than Smalling - if they had similar fitness records. Unfortunately, Jones seems to have way more injury issues than Smalling.

Hard to say which of them, if any, should be sold right now though. With our luck with annual defensive injury crises we may well need 5 CBs. Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo, Jones, Smalling. Blind as LB, competition or backup to Shaw.
 
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