Personally I would keep Smalling until at least the next transfer window and see how things pan out, even if he doesn't start at least we have back up for injuries.
James Ducker: United prepared to listen to offers for Smalling
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I'd keep him until January when Rojo comes back unless we need to sell him to raise funds for a fifth signing to strengthen our attack. Strengthening our attack is a definite necessity, a massive injury crisis is just a possibility.
Too pricey and came from a weaker league. And Sweden now, is meh country of Football (Zlatan for years as the best player ? ). Old Sweden was the best.
Hope, he wont be a liability. Against team with a long ball perhaps he will be useful, but against tactical team a la Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool or Arsenal, i have a high doubt.
Can not imagine him against Madrid, Barcelona, or Bayern.
He is slow for EPL standard. Unless he has a talent of Hummels or Pique, or stupidity a la Terry and Cahill, he will bring a little improvement to our team.
Hope it is not true...
Hope, he wont be a liability. Against team with a long ball perhaps he will be useful, but against tactical team a la Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool or Arsenal, i have a high doubt.
Can not imagine him against Madrid, Barcelona, or Bayern.
He is slow for EPL standard. Unless he has a talent of Hummels or Pique, or stupidity a la Terry and Cahill, he will bring a little improvement to our team.
Hope it is not true...
In over half of those seasons he was competing with Rio and Vidic. Of course he's not going to be close to playing every game. In a significant amount of those games that you're marking off as him being injured, he was sitting there on the bench.
Nobody can deny that he is somewhat injury prone. But it's nowhere near as bad as what some (such as yourself here) are making out. People seem to put him in the same category as Jones, when the reality is they aren't even close.
Rojo's injured (and tends to be quite often), Blind surely won't play much at CB anymore and it remains to be seen how much Jose trusts Tuanzebe. So if Smalling is being offloaded we'll definitely bring someone else in.
Exactly this.
He is young and will learn a lot under Jose. Players arent born ready, the learn. Look at Bailly, impressive but the odd mistake. That happens. The one thing you suggest is wrong though, he has pace in abundance and would be quicker than the level required in the premier league - that's for sure. He has a decent spread of attributes, just needs to bring it to the next level as with any young player - and he is at the right club for that.
He's not awful like Jones, but he is at that awful stage where he gets injured before he can build up a head of steam and then comes back playing poorly.
He's also a bit thick, which doesn't help.
He's also a bit thick, which doesn't help.
I don't consider Rojo as an injury prone or tends to be quite often. This season he was the one who played the most among our centre back. Even last season he played regularly as a left back and his first season played regularly as our centre back but got an unfortunate shoulder injury.
I think Blind will play much at CB when needed. He's pretty much our versatile player and suitable to be backup player, I don't see why you don't think him as a good option to be centre back backup and Jose did play him at the start of season and trust him in end of the season when our centre back got injured.
Jose did rate Tuanzebe though.
3 backup is surely enough IMO to cover two spots unless if Jose is planning to play 3 at the back.
This is the thing though, season by season the mind plays tricks on people.
Rojo
Seasons at United: 3
Games Missed Because of Injury: 50
Jones
Seasons at United: 6
Games Missed Because of Injury: 101
Smalling
Seasons at United: 7
Games Missed Because of Injury: 50
Smalling is easily the least injury prone out of the three - Bailly only has one season here and Lindelof has just signed. You'd assume those two are in Jose's plans to start and these three guys are more likely to play second and third fiddle with one leaving the club entirely. Rojo's availability will further diminish as he unfortunately misses a lot of next season as well. He's obviously staying though, so if you have to pick one of the others... You pick the guy who is more likely to be available when called upon, and has different attributes when compared with the other players. Jones is probably worse than Bailly and Rojo at everything? At least Smalling is better in the air than everyone and is more of a goal threat.
Transfermarkt injury stats still aren't accurate
Smalling just gets painted by the same brush as Jones for absolutely no sensible reason. Whether it be their quality as a CB or their injury proneness. It's almost as if people don't want to treat them as 2 separate individuals.
They're going to be at least 'give or take' with not much of a swing either way if they're wrong. I doubt most stats are perfectly recorded.
However, I think they're a better indicator than people on a forum pulling stats out of their ass and thinking "Rojo doesn't seem that injury prone" when he clearly fecking is. Bottom line, I'd rather trust a dedicated website that records these things with no bias.
At a quick glance I found about 20 games that Smalling was likely injured for that weren't marked as injured. Well when stats are wrong it isn't an indicator at all as you're just comparing things that aren't fact so its a waste of time. Maybe Rojo is injury prone, doesn't stop the stats being wrong. Most of Rojo's games missed have also been from 2 serious injuries so whether you want to call that injury prone or not is up to you.
I said in a previous post that this isn't the only stat that matters obviously, and there will be anomalies.
Maybe Smalling was injured more? Less? Maybe Rojo and Jones also were. Smalling's also had a serious injury but like Rojo, has been somewhat fortunate (in terms of the particular stat in question) with a lot of the downtime being in the off-season (injured all Summer, like Rojo will be), so it's swings and roundabouts.
I guess what I'm getting at is that if these stats are a bit (or a lot wrong), we could still go to every website that records these kinds of things and come out with a not-too-different outcome than what we have now, on average. Which is my main point to people who call out Smalling on being injury prone. "If Smalling is injury prone, what are our other defenders?"
If you're one of the people who says Smalling is too injury prone, you can't argue for our other defenders in regards to the same statistic. They're crocks by that logic. I'm not saying right or wrong either way, just that the logic behind it is likely more flawed than anything else discussed in this topic.
Edit: That last paragraph isn't aimed at you by the way, just using 'you' as a term for the general forum poster who thinks Smalling is never fit.
Smalling should stay put. A lot can change in 12 months. Take Herrera as an example.
I'm still not convinced we're selling him tbh.
Rojo isn't going to be back until Dec/Jan.
Jones isn't to be relied upon, and are we going to play a relatively inexperienced CB pairing for each game? I don't see it.
Rojo isn't going to be back until Dec/Jan.
Jones isn't to be relied upon, and are we going to play a relatively inexperienced CB pairing for each game? I don't see it.
For a 4th choice defender, he isn't that bad to have.
Alright I admit I didn't express or make myself clear enough but in the end I'm sure you got my point.
Stop acting all smug because I called you out on your errors. You really should let it go; Admit your mistakes like I've just done and move on.
I personally don't rate Smalling that highly but i just think it's really unfair to make up stuff regards him missing games due to injuries when it's obviously not true.
Nobody's making up anything about him missing games because of injuries. He missed 21 of them last season ffs. There seems to be conflicting data on the other two "post Rio/Vida" seasons. In one of them he didn't miss many games. In the other he missed loads. You seem to think this was mainly because he was rested. For who, exactly? Not as though we were spoilt for choice at the back in that season. I certainly don't remember him soending a lot of time on the bench. I also (as do a lot of other people, evidently) remember him being a regular in the treatment room when Rio and Vida were still here.
So if he played every time he was fit then you clearly believe Jose sees him as our first choice centre-back. So why would he sell him?
Moving this to the transfer section now.
Smalling has had 7 years, shall we make it 8 and just hope he'll become a top class CB?
He doesn't seem to be Jose's 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice. Looking likely to go I'm afraid
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Two years ago, when LVGs second season started, with him and Blind as CBs, the entire caf was raving about Smalling and how he was the best CB in the league. Roll forward two years and he is the worst defender in the team.
How reliable are transfermarkt with injury details? This is their chart on Smalling.
Season injury from until Days Games missed
16/17 Knee injury Mar 23, 2017 May 1, 2017 39 days 9
16/17 Foot injury Oct 24, 2016 Dec 15, 2016 52 days 12
15/16 Shoulder injury Feb 22, 2016 Mar 7, 2016 14 days 5
14/15 Groin Injury Dec 8, 2014 Dec 25, 2014 17 days 3
14/15 Hamstring Injury Sep 25, 2014 Oct 6, 2014 11 days 2
13/14 Hamstring Injury Dec 5, 2013 Dec 16, 2013 11 days 3
12/13 Metatarsal fracture Jul 19, 2012 Nov 1, 2012 105 days 14
11/12 Head injury Mar 1, 2012 Mar 8, 2012 7 days 2
Season injury from until Days Games missed
16/17 Knee injury Mar 23, 2017 May 1, 2017 39 days 9
16/17 Foot injury Oct 24, 2016 Dec 15, 2016 52 days 12
15/16 Shoulder injury Feb 22, 2016 Mar 7, 2016 14 days 5
14/15 Groin Injury Dec 8, 2014 Dec 25, 2014 17 days 3
14/15 Hamstring Injury Sep 25, 2014 Oct 6, 2014 11 days 2
13/14 Hamstring Injury Dec 5, 2013 Dec 16, 2013 11 days 3
12/13 Metatarsal fracture Jul 19, 2012 Nov 1, 2012 105 days 14
11/12 Head injury Mar 1, 2012 Mar 8, 2012 7 days 2
Assuming you mean LVG's first season he missed two leagues games around September/October time, was then fine until he got injured against Southampton on December 8th, returned to the squad on December 28th having missed two league games, then missed a grand total of one game through injury for the rest of the season. I make that five games all season, not exactly loads.
To go 3 season relatively uninjured is a pretty good record. People calling him a sicknote must have very short term memories.How reliable are transfermarkt with injury details? This is their chart on Smalling.
Season injury from until Days Games missed
16/17 Knee injury Mar 23, 2017 May 1, 2017 39 days 9
16/17 Foot injury Oct 24, 2016 Dec 15, 2016 52 days 12
15/16 Shoulder injury Feb 22, 2016 Mar 7, 2016 14 days 5
14/15 Groin Injury Dec 8, 2014 Dec 25, 2014 17 days 3
14/15 Hamstring Injury Sep 25, 2014 Oct 6, 2014 11 days 2
13/14 Hamstring Injury Dec 5, 2013 Dec 16, 2013 11 days 3
12/13 Metatarsal fracture Jul 19, 2012 Nov 1, 2012 105 days 14
11/12 Head injury Mar 1, 2012 Mar 8, 2012 7 days 2
Compare that injury list with Jones'.
He is better than whatever we have at the moment.
Is he really though? You rate Smalling as our no1 CB?
Without that defensive shite we play, Smalling is easily our best defender. He may not be Beckenbauer with the ball at his feet, but he is good at what he is supposed to do, which is to defend.
Remember Chelsea away?
He looks laid back at times.
Smalling hasn't been anywhere near his best this season. I think Jones, Rojo and Bailly have all outshone him if I'm honest.
Happily disagree, he's shown glimpses sure. But our best defender? I think not. Rojo/Jones/Blind all looked more competent than him last season on a whole.
Smalling backs off his man until he get's a shot off or makes a pass, i've never seen a more indescisive defender in my life. To rate him higher than Bailly who is superior in every single aspect other than his ability to head the ball is mad.
The minimum requirement for any Manchester United player should be to be able to play football. Smalling can't and he seems to have forgotten how to defend too, one good season out of 7 says it all.
For me its clear that moving Smalling is not based on his ability but on persoanlity/ attitude. Jose must have some issue with the lad. Smalling is not a world beater but easilly good enough to be our 3/4th choice CB.
He was playing with a broken toe
The biggest dilemma for most people is trying to figure out between Smalling and Jones and who should go. They were brought in to replace Vidic and Ferdinand and unfortunately one can't defend and is awkward defending when the ball is at his feet while the other is plagued with injuries. I would get rid of both but we are short of CBs and like last season, we were struggling to put together a team for the games towards the end of the season. With that being said, Smalling has to go out first. I don't think he's good enough and it angers me whenever I see him wear the captain's armband. Bailly has been so good in his first season than what Smalling has been for his entire United career.
Stop over reacting boys. You fall out with your boss, you take the walk. Its just ABC really.
To me, it's even more damning if he wasn't injured. Unlike Jones and Rojo, he's had the opportunity to nail down a starting spot. Jones has been injured far too much to know what we really have there.
I'm only basing my judgement on recent performances with Smalling, Jones and Rojo. Jones and Rojo under Mourinho looked far better players until they got injured. Smalling regressed, to say the least, from the previous season. I honestly couldn't give a toss for those who are so hung up on his seasons under Van Gaal is gone, his crap philosophy is gone, and what we're left with is a player that isn't performing to United starting eleven quality under Mourinho. So, "bye Felicia". He's more than had his chance here.
On the other hand, from Smalling's perspective, he's never done anything wrong to United, and he has a real opportunity with regular playing time in a starting eleven in the PL to keep an England starting position and improve as a player. Nobody in contention for England should settle for a backup role. A low transfer fee to enable the right club with the right opportunity for him is the appropriate, dignified approach for both club and player.