Would much rather see Jones given the shove but if the money is good..
James Ducker: United prepared to listen to offers for Smalling
- Thread starter Paxi
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Just put them on pay as you play contracts. Smalling and Jones have shown themselves as good team members. It's better for us to keep them like we should have kept Rafael. We shouldn't sell him or Jones.
Lindelof and Bailly will be first choice. They are Mourinhos men who he chose himself.
It's quite likely the dressing room leak during Moyes reign was Moyes himself feeding journalists info to keep them off his back.
What you laughing at? We're not talking about players that are past it or don't have winners medals at the club. You can laugh but people tend to have short memories. Let's not forget that he's part of a defensive unit that replaced one of Uniteds BEST and Rojo and Bailly both have flaws. Both have had injuries issues this season. At some point, it's just buying for buyings sake. Look at our defensive record. Our defense isn't the problem
Rojos injury was something you would expect from Jones. Completely avoidable. He can be rash too at times as can Bailly as seen by getting himself banned needlessly for the Europa league final. Defensively we are fine and I would have retained Rafael. Offensively, without a top quality winger we've struggled big time. He was young, but he'd shown he was committed and came back well from injuries. Have we replaced him or his energy? No.
We sold valuable attackers who weren't fully appreciated and made ourself anemic. Now we're looking for the things we gave away. In a squad, you can manage players - even game time and by rotation. It's not like they're on silly wages..
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What you laughing at? We're not talking about players that are past it or don't have winners medals at the club. You can laugh but people tend to have short memories. Let's not forget that he's part of a defensive unit that replaced one of Uniteds BEST and Rojo and Bailly both have flaws. Both have had injuries issues this season. At some point, it's just buying for buyings sake. Look at our defensive record. Our defense isn't the problem
Rojos injury was something you would expect from Jones. Completely avoidable. He can be rash too at times as can Bailly as seen by getting himself banned needlessly for the Europa league final. Defensively we are fine and I would have retained Rafael. Offensively, without a top quality winger we've struggled big time. He was young, but he'd shown he was committed and came back well from injuries. Have we replaced him or his energy? No.
We sold valuable attackers who weren't fully appreciated and made ourself anemic. Now we're looking for the things we gave away. In a squad, you can manage players - even game time and by rotation. It's not like they're on silly wages..
Possibly the pay as you play bit. Who does that ?
Bailley yes, but Lindelof won't find it so easy.
We can demand anywhere between £20-25M for Smalling in the current market. We should move him on
I've never liked Smalling as a United defender.
Listen, he does perform on the whole at a decent level, he gives 5/10 most of the time. Forget the awful positioning he often takes up, forget the flashes of rash, teenage like errors that happen once every 4 or 5 games, lets just concentrate on the 5/10 steady performances. That isn't good enough if we're to compete for the title. Selling Smalling is the difference between playing around in 4th-7th like we have this last few years, and buying a better standard of player, like Bailly, to take us up to 1st-3rd places.
The upgrade opportunity is obvious.
Compare Jones's performances to Smalling, and he does come in and give us 7/10 performances when he gets a good run in the side. A good backup for us.
Listen, he does perform on the whole at a decent level, he gives 5/10 most of the time. Forget the awful positioning he often takes up, forget the flashes of rash, teenage like errors that happen once every 4 or 5 games, lets just concentrate on the 5/10 steady performances. That isn't good enough if we're to compete for the title. Selling Smalling is the difference between playing around in 4th-7th like we have this last few years, and buying a better standard of player, like Bailly, to take us up to 1st-3rd places.
The upgrade opportunity is obvious.
Compare Jones's performances to Smalling, and he does come in and give us 7/10 performances when he gets a good run in the side. A good backup for us.
Any credibility that article might have had is completely gone. Mourinho said himself earlier this season something along the lines of "Rojo is an excellent centreback and that is good for him because he is a terrible left back, really really bad".
I could see Rojo working out as Mourinho's standard defensive fullback of the two. Meanwhile allowing Valencia/our future RB to be the offensive presence, Semedo from Benfica would fit this role well
What wages is he on? If he's on high wages I expect it might be more difficult.
They will still have to earn a starting spot. Some very oversensitive posters on here. You'd think Mike scored 3 own goals every game the way some are going on.
Looking at our defensive record we need about 7 central defenders as they all get injured & Eric will be off every other season when they all breakdown.
Smalling is just not good enough on the ball. Too clumsy and breaks down under pressure.
Have good physical attributes, but that alone is not good enough.
I thank him for his service here, but he never got close to what we expected him to turn out after Ferdinand & Vidic.
7years after Ferdinand & Vidic pair, never even had a glimpse of Smalling reaching close to their levels.
Jones at least has his injuries to blame at, and when he was healthy his performance was top notch. It may be just a matter of staying healthy.
However, Smalling just doesn't have any excuses left.
Have good physical attributes, but that alone is not good enough.
I thank him for his service here, but he never got close to what we expected him to turn out after Ferdinand & Vidic.
7years after Ferdinand & Vidic pair, never even had a glimpse of Smalling reaching close to their levels.
Jones at least has his injuries to blame at, and when he was healthy his performance was top notch. It may be just a matter of staying healthy.
However, Smalling just doesn't have any excuses left.
Meh, when either Smalling or Jones leave the club, I wouldn't give a shit. Just think the pair of them can't go up another level, unfortunately.
But if I was to sell one, it would be Jones ahead of Smalling for me. Jones is way to injury prone to rely on.
But if I was to sell one, it would be Jones ahead of Smalling for me. Jones is way to injury prone to rely on.
The idea of 'putting' either on pay as you play contracts
These are 2 English defenders entering their prime years as if they'd sign up to a pay as you play deal they'd have to be out of their current contracts for a start and in that scenario they'd have plenty of other clubs interested
He's not a good backup though because he's never around when we need him.
If we go into next season with Jones as our backup it's madness because it's almost certain that the first time we need to rest Bailly or if Lindelof picks up a knock we won't be able to play Jones because he won't be fit.
He's completely unreliable.
Can't believe some of the hate for Smalling on here. Sure, he's not as good on the ball as some, and his positioning isn't perfect, but he has other attributes. There have been plenty of times where his pace has allowed us to push right up the pitch, and no other CB in the league would have been able to cover through balls like him. Beating players like Aguero for pace for example is something perhaps only Varane and a select few could offer.
Jones' past injury records do not guarantee that he will be injured again in the future. There might be higher probability, but if Jones is staying, evaluation of medical staff may have taken into account, who know far more about Jones' physical status than any of us.
Just like past performance is not indicative of future results in evaluating stocks.
We could plan to play back 3 next season. Baily, Lindelöf and Rojo will be rock solid. Valencia & Perisic at wingback. Jones & Damian waiting on the bench. Could work great.
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I completely disagree with all of that to be honest.
Phil Jones has been consistently injured in his 6 years at the club. 6 seasons of him missing at least 3 or 4 months every campaign. How often is it that an incredibly injury prone player suddenly stops getting injured? I can't think of any.
Nothing is guaranteed in life or in football but Jones being injured for 50-70% of every season is as close as something can get to being guaranteed. Put it this way i doubt you would find someone willing to put good money on Jones staying fit for an entire season.
Thats possible but then you would have to ask why weren't the medical staff under Ferguson, Moyes and Van Gaal able to get to the bottom on his constant injury problems. Or Mourinho and his medical staff last season.
Some players are just injury prone and will be for most of their careers, Jones is one of those players.
Diaby, Haregreaves, Ledley King etc.
They all stopped getting injured.
What?
It's supposed to be a joke that also emphasizes the point you were trying to make.
.They are retired professionals.
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Lindeloff and Bailly will be the CB pairing of choice for Mourinho, given the fee he paid for the former.
Mourinho fell out with Smalling as he didn't play through the pain barrier. He is a fan of Jones due to his workrate and the fact that he now dives into tackles less often.
Article also states that Mourinho sees Rojo as an LB in the long term
That's what's wrong with these things, you start to think they are on to something & then they come out with something like this and you start to think the whole thing is bullshit.
But where is he going to go? He won't accept the 2nd (or 3rd) tier PL clubs like Stoke or West Brom. Mourinho won't sell to any rivals. He's snookered.
Diaby is still going I think. He's currently out injured though would you believe.
Jones' style of defending is the root cause of his injuries. He's always last minute. His silly 3" above the grass diving header as an example. Just like Jack Wilshere, he brings it on himself. This will never alter without a fundamental change in his style. Jones is the weaker of the two in my opinion because of this. Smalling is the better defender but is prone to the odd gaff. Keane is not an improvement on either - why do you think he was sold in the first place. Plus buying English players is bad for the bank balance anyway. Over-inflated prices. £60m for both Bailly and Lindelof or £50m for Stones alone, as someone else quoted on here. John Stones who is not a first choice England CB, not even first choice at club level towards the end of last season.
Keep Smalling, sell Jones .............to medical science.
Keep Smalling, sell Jones .............to medical science.
Jones isn't even a good defender. He was raved about during a small purple patch and then resorted back to his error prone ways before injuring himself again. He's a liability.
If they were not English, then we should get rid both of them to end our annual defence injury crisis.
Since they're English and very useful when fit, we should keep both of them as we are low on homegrown quota.
The pair of them won't command high transfer fees so rather keep them as squad players.
Since they're English and very useful when fit, we should keep both of them as we are low on homegrown quota.
The pair of them won't command high transfer fees so rather keep them as squad players.
Yet when he had a run in the side early last season everyone was saying it was Jones reborn and saying Jose will transform him into a consistent performer.
It's down to opinion but I think with the options we have we can afford to flog Smalling and Keep Jones.
Couldn't agree more.
I don't understand. He was our best defender in 2015-16 and 2014-15...yet we want him gone?
I reckon I could slot in to a LVG side and give good performances.
Two holding midfielders would sit in front of our two centre backs, often playing against 1 striker. We would strangle the game with slow, sideways possession football.
Our centre backs had it pretty easy. Hence Smalling appeared to look pretty good.
Don't want to let him go. We need numbers at the back. Also his strengths of being good in the air is useful.
Nows the time to cash in on him, he'll be 28 a few months into the season. The same age as Jonny Evans when he left, who after 2 years at WBA hasn't set the world on fire.
If we can get 20-25M from WBA I'd take it, Everton would need taking to the cleaners.
If we can get 20-25M from WBA I'd take it, Everton would need taking to the cleaners.
Good news, hope we fleece Arsenal or Chelsea for him.
No now is not the time , We dont want any of fatigue be the reason for under performances next season. We need numbers at the back and smalling Should be kept. His strenghts in the air are useful too. We should stop shooting ourselves in the foot.