He's a good player with a lot of potential, but I'd rather be paying him this crazy wage once he's actually operating at a truly elite level. Not before.
Jamal Musiala
- Thread starter Sean_RedDevil
- Start date
Good news. That lot over on Bluemoon have been wanking themselves silly for months convinced they’d be in for him in the summer. No doubt he’ll suddenly become an overrated bum now he’s signed that deal.
Did he tell you that?
Anyway, it's a matter of fact that he played like a playmaking left winger for the last few seasons which happened to be his best. Quite often, he's our widest player - even farther out wide than Grimaldo. And from there and the left half spaces, he starts his trademark dribbles. Playing him as a 10 is like playing Messi as a 10. It's only semantics because he'll move into the left (right in Messi's case) half space anyway. Unfortunately, the same is true for Musiala. So, like it or not, he's not 100% compatible with Musiala and it shows for Germany where he was regularly played out of position in order to complement the former who Nagelsmann seems to favor for whatever reason. And you don't buy a player for €130+m to play him out of position (unless you're Manchester United
)I think he is already playing at a truly elite level but that salary seems a bit over the top to me as well.
By truly elite, I mean top 3-5 players in the world. A consistent match winner over multiple years. He's good. Very good, even. Though £200-250k a week would be my limit. For now.
Good. He’s worth it. Now we need to build around him. If we do manage to get Wirtz, we’d be back to our level from a few years before. Defending Musiala, Wirtz and Olise would be a nightmare for any opponent.
Chelsea boy done good.
Yeah I mean, this just isn't realistic though for Bayern's setup - that's less than they pay Gnabry and Coman reportedly.
Him and his team obviously wouldn't accept that as a result, and it's tough to go down the alternative route - which would be having to sell him in the summer from a position of weakened leverage, then spending big on a replacement.
Hence, my original post about Bayern overpaying on wages. I don't see his current level being worth what they have offered him. Potentially in the future, perhaps. Though it's the result of overpaying other players that has forced them into this corner, as we have both referenced.
He plays better now that he's free.
Must be great to see one of your own leave all the misery behind and thrive somewhere else. It means there’s hope for all of you.
He'd be a Chelsea player if it wasn't for Nigel Farage and his horde of morons.
Basically, every time you cheer for him at Bayern, you are cheering for Nigel Farage.
I‘m fine with that. He’s that good.
I’m mostly just happy that he left the slums of Chelsea behind him and was able to make a life for himself and his family in a better place. It’s a typical from rags to riches story.
"the slums of Chelsea" heh.
He basically did the same as Dhuran. Moved to a footballing backwater for money.
Can't blame the guy, gotta get that money. 400K a week is madness but I get why Bayern have to pay those wages.
He needs the cash to send money home to his friends and the rest of his family. Many players who have escaped poverty do so.
Did he tell you that?
Anyway, it's a matter of fact that he played like a playmaking left winger for the last few seasons which happened to be his best. Quite often, he's our widest player - even farther out wide than Grimaldo. And from there and the left half spaces, he starts his trademark dribbles. Playing him as a 10 is like playing Messi as a 10. It's only semantics because he'll move into the left (right in Messi's case) half space anyway. Unfortunately, the same is true for Musiala. So, like it or not, he's not 100% compatible with Musiala and it shows for Germany where he was regularly played out of position in order to complement the former who Nagelsmann seems to favor for whatever reason. And you don't buy a player for €130+m to play him out of position (unless you're Manchester United
The pitch maps of Wirtz is not too dissimilar to Ozil or even De Bruyne. Attacking midfielders tend to occupy spaces on the wings at times in order to influence the game from there. It's not the same as a winger though, who usually stay on the wing and rarely come inside.
Wirtz doesn't play out of position because of Musiala, it's because Nagelsman preferred 3 central midfielders (8's or 6's) to having a pure attacking midfielder in the Euros. There's also a distinct lack of RW's so Wirtz plays there instead. That being said, even in those matches as a RW, he's played centrally a lot more than actually on the wing. Him, Musiala and Havertz have been great as a front 3 with a lot of rotation.
Wirtz and Musiala van definitely play together, with one as a CAM and the other as a LW, both rotating positions and therefore having the freedom to play around one another.
Given that you don't think Wirtz can play as a CAM, you would think he won't be able to play well in any team other than United since no other big team plays a formation similar to Leverkusen?
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Yeah, it’s not cheap but it’s worth it. And as you said, bringing in a replacement on a similar level would be incredibly expensive. More expensive than paying Musiala his salary. And as others have mentioned, Bayern is rich. Top 5 revenue, biggest commercial income, zero debt.
Having Coman, Gnabry and Goretzka's wages off the books will go a long way to helping pay for Musiala's salary. Still have to see if Kimmich signs a new deal but would be surprised if he asks, and gets, as much as Musiala.
Before the last Euros, I though he was the next big thing. I still think he's elite level, potentially top 2-3 players in the world. Exceptional skill levels. As for money, all crazy, but he isn't going anywhere for less than £90m - £100m and probably more, 300k+ a week
I had been under the impression that Gnabry was seen as being surplus to requirements. He hasn't been anywhere close to his best form of 20/21 for ages and while some great glimpses are still visible here and there, overall he has been mediocre at best. Certainly nowhere near justifying his high estimated wages. Has that changed and Bayern are now trying to prolong his contract?
Now Coman I'll actually be sad to see go, because I think when he's fit he is by far the best of Bayern's options on the left, but it just seems to be an unchanging fact that he's made of glass and cannot be relied upon to stay healthy and available for full matches.
To get back to the topic of Musiala, while that is certainly a massive wage packet, I actually see it making sense if Bayern wants to get back to being a true CL contender and top club. A good replacement would be very expensive in transfer and wages as well unless Bayern want to try gambling on players nobody expects to be all that good, or tossing youngsters at it. Musiala has regularly been the differencemaker in Bayern's games, the one to give a deciding impulse with a dribble or pass that nobody else has the quality or mind to try.
And they can actually afford it, the club's finances are healthy and they are cutting down the wages elsewhere in the squad to finance a few highly paid star players.
I think how you call the position is semantics, it is rather about the spaces the players occupy. And when two players like to move into the same spaces and start similar plays from there, one or both of them have to make concessions. It's obviously a no brainer to start both when you have them in your team since they are still great together but I don't think it's the perfect setup to shine for both. Wirtz for instance dribbles far less for Germany than for Leverkusen (1.5 succesful dribbles to 3 according to Sofascore)
No, not that I‘m aware of. What I meant is that Gnabry is running down his contract since he makes a stupid amount of money for the level he has been playing at the last two years. I assume that Bayern would love to sell but don’t see him going anywhere. Very comparable to the situation with Goretzka.
I'll honestly admit that I have a weak spot for Goretzka. Yes, he's way overpaid for what he offers, he's not really that good. But every time I see him he really seems to be putting in a shift as best he can, within the limits of his capabilities of course, and he did not seem to do all that badly this season. And I do think there is still some role to play for him, given his competition for the spot. I like Laimer, but I like him better coming from out wide rather than centrally, and I hope Pavlovic really turns out to be consistently good but don't see him quite there yet. Not convinced about Palhinha so far.
A much more ridiculous wage bill in the squad to me that has gone unmentioned so far is Mueller. He's reportedly at something like €20m p.a., which I find outrageous for somebody with his declining form who is somewhere between a squad rotation and full-on substitute player. I get that he's somewhat of a team identity icon, that he is a big advertisement vehicle and that supposedly he's important for the team spirit. But still, that amount of wages is insane. If he stays at Bayern past this summer then I hope for them that they switch to a very performance-based contract, with a base salary of below 10m and the rest depends on if and how he plays.
We’ll by both Wirtz and Musiala to have them cover for Dalot on RWB until Antony comes home.Did he tell you that?
Anyway, it's a matter of fact that he played like a playmaking left winger for the last few seasons which happened to be his best. Quite often, he's our widest player - even farther out wide than Grimaldo. And from there and the left half spaces, he starts his trademark dribbles. Playing him as a 10 is like playing Messi as a 10. It's only semantics because he'll move into the left (right in Messi's case) half space anyway. Unfortunately, the same is true for Musiala. So, like it or not, he's not 100% compatible with Musiala and it shows for Germany where he was regularly played out of position in order to complement the former who Nagelsmann seems to favor for whatever reason. And you don't buy a player for €130+m to play him out of position (unless you're Manchester United
For clarity's sake, are the ballparked numbers here before tax?
Yes. In Germany the reported numbers are always gross. Same for the UK, isn’t it? Italy and Spain mostly report net wages though.
I 100% agree. He always gives his all (and is actually having a good season) and it’s not his fault that he is overpaid. He also seems to be a great guy, so I am a fan.
But back to Musiala…
He can become the face of the club once Neuer and Müller retire. You have to keep such a player.
Purely skillwise he should certainly be one of the standout players. But I'm not sure that he has a leadership role for the team in him. He did not strike me as a leader personality on the pitch so far, but maybe I just haven't seen the right matches. Or maybe he just hasn't felt a need to step into that role much until now between Neuer, Kimmich and Mueller. And he is of course still quite young, that may also be a factor as to why he still seems rather quiet.
Happy that he stays although I can't help but think that we've massively overpaid here. To be honest, I don't think he would have received this salary anywhere else...so probably not the best negotiating by Eberl...
Could be something that they'll look at a few years from now and say 'damn why they we pay so much for him'. He is a great player but there is a lot of payment for potential rather than current ability.
Would be interesting to see what the reaction was to Gnabry and Goretzka's contract when they signed because they were also on top form at that time.
Yeah, it's funny how people still try to blame Salihamidzic for those contracts and the current squad while Musiala's and Davies' contracts are no different.
It gets even more absurd when you consider that Salihamidzic had already agreed on terms with Davies for an annual salary of €14m but was then blocked by his higher ups just to pay Davies now €20m per year (fix + sign up fee) and an additional €5m/year of potential bonuses...
So basically Bayern will now pay €6-11m more per year compared to Brazzo's deal back then... That's 30-55m more over a 5 year period…
And I have a feeling it will end up similar with Kimmich after Eberl tried to half his salary last year and publicly humiliated him in the process...
Add to that the Palhinha deal who does not seem to fit into Kompany's plans at all and could become the next cash grab, and I really don't understand why Eberl gets so much praise compared to Salihamidzic.