Very quiet amongst the journalists again. I was hoping for more action than this, this morning.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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It’ll hit 2,000, but half of them will be after the window has closed and it gets bumped after every Dortmund game with pages of either “see he wasn’t worth it” or “goddamit Woody he should be doing that for us”.
Happy Sancho Day!
I more inclined to believe that personal terms were already agreed (they usually get done fairly quickly), but the agent fee was the sticking point.
I want us to strike while the iron is hot, I would like this to be done before we play Crystal Palace next Saturday.
This will be concluded one way or another in the next 2 weeks. I doubt Dortmund will sell 2 weeks before the window closes, they need a replacement.
Yes that's basically how it works. Costs are recognised over the period to which they relate. Although there may be a $40m cash outlay upfront, an asset of the same amount is added to the balance sheet. The cost is then spread over the life of the asset.
I am not completely sure how football clubs account for players and contract lengths etc though. That's just on a basic transaction. Hope that explains to some extent but let me know if now and ill try and go in to a bit more detail
Bottom line is, what you see going through the profit and loss account doesn't truly represent the impact on the cash position.
Again, i haven't looked at United's figures so i have no idea what they show!
Yes but you could argue why do the club make these briefings at all, they usually say one thing and mean another, but IMO this one was genuine and perhaps leaked from the agent and then confirmed by the club when press checked their sources.
You could also argue it helps move things along if fans understanding is that Sancho has agreed to make the move and effectively wants to leave.
There's really nothing much to update now anymore. The next update should be when 'both clubs have agreed a fee for Jadon Sancho'. Let's hope it's a matter of hours rather than days!
Good post.
I think in the end we'll commit to pay the full 120m but over the course of 2-3 instalments and an additional 20m would be in the form of achievable add-ons.
Then, when all is said and done, we'll brief that we got a discount and Dortmund will brief they got their asking price with the truth being a shade of both.
What are they going to update? They may have agreed a salary, but that is pointless if they are still too cheap to meet the asking price
Would you just offer the asking price when buying a house?
Yeah I also suspect the agent fee was the issue. That's why I think the noise yesterday was leaked from the Sancho camp initially, as if to say 'we are all good our end' and then put the ball back in the the two clubs corner.
No German news outlets are reporting as much as a sniff of this today.
Seems this latest development isn't the breakthrough the English media are touting it as
Yeah the Dortmund sub reddit is clinging to this. It's a good point, but it has them convinced he is staying there. Who knows.
Valuable preseason time? United have been on holiday after the EL. We started training today. He's missed nothing.
By being at Dortmund he's had a full preseason and played in several friendlies. If they get him in the next few days the timing will have been basically perfection. The exact same applies to Donny.
If the seller told everybody in the world they wouldn't sell for less? Yes
I really want that house.
If the deal is really dead from Dortmund’s perspective why are discussions still taking place with Sancho’s agent and the intermediary agent Dortmund insisted we use? Agent fees agreed so presumably this means the intermediary’s fees are agreed as well.
Yeah but imagine someone else could just take the house for free in a few years.If the seller told everybody in the world they wouldn't sell for less? Yes
I really want that house.
If both club finally agree the fees of 119m, I think it will solved all the problems - Man Utd got their top target for discounted price, and Dortmund finally sold Sancho for the almost the same price they’ve always wanted.
Yes that's basically how it works. Costs are recognised over the period to which they relate. Although there may be a $40m cash outlay upfront, an asset of the same amount is added to the balance sheet. The cost is then spread over the life of the asset.
I am not completely sure how football clubs account for players and contract lengths etc though. That's just on a basic transaction. Hope that explains to some extent but let me know if now and ill try and go in to a bit more detail
Bottom line is, what you see going through the profit and loss account doesn't truly represent the impact on the cash position.
Again, i haven't looked at United's figures so i have no idea what they show!
Hey mate
thanks for the breakdown.So in a Sancho scenario of "120m euro up front"
and we have
There would be "upfront cost" of 108m pounds (potentially), but the accounts would report this as (potentially) 108 million pounds over a 5 year contract? Also accounting for what we've spent on VDB, it's (potentially) 60 million pounds cash in hand with 150 mil in revolving credit?
So hypothetically, is an upfront fee even possible or it would all come down to a structured deal?
There are players who need a pre-season to get up and running with the way a club plays, get to know the team and get used to the style of play. Others, like Bruno, come in and impose their style on the team and it the ground running, even when joining in the middle of a season. I reckon Sancho is going to be more of the latter (he knows the area, knows many of his team mates & played with them on international duty and is going into a position where we've not had a specialty player in years so he has a low bar to clear to show improvement) and as long as he's match fit we don't need to worry about him settling.
That would make me want to buy it now all the more
I know this is somewhat controversial, and lots of people will jump on my back but please, hear me out!
I think Sancho Day is actually a bit over-rated and I prefer Sancho Day's Eve.
Yes there is the constant F5 pressing, getting the important tweet from that Norwood guy, or following a motorcade into Carrington but I think it has become quite commercialised with Sky Bet sending out random contrary headlines to get numpties to bet in weird ways.
I actually prefer that rush of relaxed anticipation the night before.
You know the kids are tucked up waiting to see what Sancho will bring - the house is ready and you can just relax with a mince pie and a glass of Port and listen to Carols from Kings as they sing his praises and release multiple you tube skills compilations with euro-trip-hop-house music in the background for copyright reasons.
For me that's when I feel the true spirit of Sancho Day!
I think Sancho Day is actually a bit over-rated and I prefer Sancho Day's Eve.
Yes there is the constant F5 pressing, getting the important tweet from that Norwood guy, or following a motorcade into Carrington but I think it has become quite commercialised with Sky Bet sending out random contrary headlines to get numpties to bet in weird ways.
I actually prefer that rush of relaxed anticipation the night before.
You know the kids are tucked up waiting to see what Sancho will bring - the house is ready and you can just relax with a mince pie and a glass of Port and listen to Carols from Kings as they sing his praises and release multiple you tube skills compilations with euro-trip-hop-house music in the background for copyright reasons.
For me that's when I feel the true spirit of Sancho Day!
How? Why?
Multiple reasons. 10 years ago Dortmund won two CL titles in a row and reached the CL final in the third. They beat Bayern for Reus' signature and the most promising German talent since Franz Beckenbauer, Mario Götze, said in an interview that he could imagine ending his career in Germany. The team was stacked with world class players in many positions: Besides Reus and Götze, there were Hummels, Lewandowski and Gündogan. Then, shortly before the CL final, it became public that Bayern had signed Götze for a laughable amount. As if that wasn't enough, they lost the final and then Bayern bought Hummels and Lewandowski in the following two seasons and constantly belittled the club publicly. So basically, when they were about to enter the top tier, they were shown their place and ever since were bullied by top clubs that signed their best players, at times with very questionable methods (Mkhitaryan, Dembele, Aubameyang). But they grew organically, improved season by season, always with the objective in mind of becoming one of the best clubs in Europe.
Now they're about to enter the top 10 European clubs regarding revenue. They've beaten one of the biggest clubs in the world for the signature of Haaland and amassed an incredible amount of talent with Sancho, Haaland, Reyna, Bellingham and Moukoko again. Now it looked like they'd lose Sancho in this window and logically Hoeneß had to taunt them with that, claiming that they'd never become a top club this way. Most Dortmund fans had made their peace with Sancho leaving but were annoyed with United's messing around. Then Zorc and Watzke drew a line and a real spirit emerged. Many Dortmund fans think that they are realistically able to hold on to the current bunch of talents for multiple years. It was a sign that they wouldn't allow top clubs bullying them any longer. Sancho has sort of become the personification of all that.
If they sell Sancho now, it'll not be recognized as a necessary thing but it'll be received as if they trolled their fans on purpose. They would have to bring up a very, very good reason for that. If they just accept the fee that was initially communicated +10m or something like that, this won't go down well. It'll be perceived as confirmation of their "minority complex". Especially now that they know that Sancho is contracted until 2023 and they could still sell them 2022. This will receive a shit storm worse than Götze and Hummels got, only that it is now directed towards the front men of their own club. Watzke and Zorc know this very well, so there would've been absolutely no point in ruling out a Sancho move that strictly if they didn't mean it. They could've just said a standard phrase or something like that and Dortmund fans would've been like "yeah, that's negotiation tactics but realistically there's no way he's staying".
Don't know. That may be an indication but in all honesty, that's not even remotely enough for me given the indications to the contrary.
What if Sancho refuses to play or something like that.. not that I think that will happen, mind.
I don't think it's necessarily the reports that is suggesting a breakthrough, but rather the multitude of English journalists who had previously denied wages and agent fees had been agreed. Most are getting their information from the club, so for the club to now be feeding this news to the journalists would mean something has advanced.
Pretty sure you mean BL not CL for those two titles!
Would you want a player at Utd who has that attitude?
That’s what I was thinking.
What? I must have been in a coma when that happened.
As far as I understand, Sancho and his agent can only agree personal terms with United only when Dortmund gives them a written consent to do so. If what the media are reporting is true, then it means Dortmund have given him that consent to agree terms, the fee would have been communicated to United as well. It is up to United to bid for the player based on Dortmund's valuation.
If however, its the case that Dortmund have not given the written consent, then the whole story is a lie. United can not blatantly breach FIFA rules on tapping up.Something is happening though.
Sparky was great for Chelsea at the time. I wasn't suggesting that Utd bought Chelseas cast offs but you couldn't say either of Mata or Matic have been huge successes. Chelsea made profits on those two and I was just suggesting that the Chelsea to Utd transfer path wasn't new. Mikel was a fantastic servant for the club and worth every penny although a number of Chelsea fans may unfairly disagree.
Yes, in years gone by Chelsea have bought Utd players on the wane but the tide has turned in recent years.
Should be straight forward now if united want him.
United pay the asking price. Sancho tells Dortmund he wants to go. Deal done
United pay the asking price. Sancho tells Dortmund he wants to go. Deal done
Hopefully getting Smalling over the line helps us with funds for the bid
I wouldn't judge the player if the club refuses to sell them due to some overarching club goals. But wouldn't like it if the player does it to improve the bargaining power of the buyer club to bring the price down as it just shafts their current club.
I think you're overstating things a bit. Everyone can see that even if he stays this summer Sancho will probably leave the next. They also know that Haaland or Bellingham won't end their careers in Dortmund either. It is true that the club has become more ambitious with their purchases, but in the end it all boils down to money and Dortmund is still a long way off being able to pay top wages and bar some deluded fans everyone understands what that means, it's less of a inferiority complex than it is just the simple reality.
I also think the importance of Hoeneß' comments is overstated. He likes to inject himself in popular narratives. E.g. boasting about that €2m loan that supposedly saved Dortmund just when they started to hurt Bayern on the pitch half a decade later. This is no different and to think his ramblings, especially now that he has become a relic of the past, are driving €100m+ transfers is naive.
In the end it boils to the fact that both their CEO and DoF made a promise, Selling Sancho now - even for €120m - would break that promise and everyone hates being lied to.
So many words that aren't needed, he's coming home.
Perfection! :O
That is if you think the preseason begins only after the players are on the practice-fields. There's a lot of mental preparation, and there are lots of off-field preparations in every transfer.
You can't go to another city, another country, find a new house to live, get to know your new teammates, the new manager, the new coaching staff, the new team's playing style/tactics/playing-position, and dozens of other important off-field issues and then pretend nothing happened and start firing on all cylinders from day one, when the new English season begins in less than 48-hours, United's (and Dortmund's) next game is in 9 days, and Sancho doesn't even know which country he will live in, let alone which club!!
Like most of us normal human beings, footballers need a period to 'settle in'. I don't know about you, but I'd quite disturbed if had a huge job starting in 9 days, and then I was told that I would have to either live in Germany or in England and that they will be able to tell me only one or two days before the job actually begins.
Lots of transfers take place very late in the transfer window, but this is certainly not ideal from the players' or the clubs' perspective.
Yeah, that might facilitate things but it most likely won't reduce the price. See Dembele. I don't believe they would sell Sancho for 120m if he would go on strike now. Maybe 130-140m. But as it stands, Sancho doesn't seem to bother enough to do so. He also won't risk the EC, I guess.
My guess is that they've communicated to him that he can leave next season for 120m until a certain deadline when he extended the contract. They felt obliged to negotiate for that reason but happily backtracked when the deadline was over. In order to make them rethink, you'd have to do something crazy. And considering that you apparently didn't even want to pay close to 120m, I still find it hard to imagine that you suddenly slam 130+m on the table.
Thing is, the promise would've been completely unnecessary if they didn't mean it. They could've played the typical game, make the typical phrases and everyone would've known what's going to happen eventually. Dortmund fans had made peace with him leaving already. It only makes sense to be so strict if they don't intend to sell at all. Why communicate the stuff with the deadline and that there was no leeway for negotiation at all when he moves a month later?
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