Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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DancingPanda said:
Hypothetically, would you guys be happy with Van De Beek and Sancho for this window?

Personally I don't see the center back position as such an urgent issue right now, and rather get an offensive full back as an option instead. But i'd be very happy with only getting De Beek and Sancho due to the current situation. That's an amazing window all things considered
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To be honest, I'd have been happy with just Sancho. The rest of the issues in the squad weren't as big as the RW spot was.

Adding in a versatile midfielder like VdB along with Sancho is great, and if we could have got a Matic replacement or CB on top of it, I'd be delighted, but neither of those would have as big an impact on the team as Sancho would do.
 
The Boy said:
I go on holiday tomorrow morning to a small remote island off the Cambodian coast. For 6 days there will be no internet, i fully expect this thread to be closed by the time I am back next Friday and the Jadon Sancho player performance thread to be open!

Good luck muppets, I hope it works out for you, I'd love to see him in the premiership, but hopefully he'll have a minor injury when you face Brighton.
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Weird flex but okay
 
Someone else has probably said this in the 934 pages but what I don’t get is why agree on personal terms so far in advance if the clubs are still far apart in their valuation of the player? Wouldn’t BD be pissed off that another club has agreed terms with their player? I understand that this happens all the time but it still strikes me as weird.
 
In about two weeks MUFC 2020 annual report is available.

All available numbers indicates that the club will report a loss. We will probably see a decrease in our cash reserves and regarding the daily cash flow we sometimes will use the new revolving credit of £140m.

I mention this again.

From what I can see our maximum transfer budget is (excluding player sales) around £50-60m. We probably pay the DvdB fee to Ajax in two installments, 25+20m or similar.

So that means that there is approximately £30-40m + players sales (Smalling a s o) left to offer Borussia Dortmund as a first initial installment if we can reach an agreement with them.
 
The transfer seems to be at a very delicate crossroads in my opinion.

If United finally get their man in one or two weeks, for the exact sum Dortmund wanted all along - €120m - there will be lots of people slating Ed and colleagues for not paying up on time, penny-pinching, and squandering valuable preseason preparation time. After all, despite all the posturing for several weeks, they would have managed to get a zero discount, paid-up exactly what Dortmund wanted, and allowed no time for Sancho to adapt to the new environment before the new season. The board's negotiation skills will be oppugned again, especially that other English teams are buying players for much less than the players' (apparent) market values.

If Dortmund sell Sancho for less than €120m, they'll be torn to shreds by their fans and the German media. The international media will be happy to ramp the narrative that they are just a feeder selling club without any real ambition. And they won't' have enough time to find a suitable (value-for-money) replacement either, with the Bundesliga season starting in 9 days. After all, they could have sold Sancho five or six weeks ago, recruited one or two top players with that money, and started afresh.

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Dortmund want to sell their asset for 120m asap. United want to buy for less than 120m asap. Sancho wants to leave asap, but he hasn't handed a formal transfer request.

Which party will accede first?
 
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The Boy said:
I go on holiday tomorrow morning to a small remote island off the Cambodian coast. For 6 days there will be no internet, i fully expect this thread to be closed by the time I am back next Friday and the Jadon Sancho player performance thread to be open!

Good luck muppets, I hope it works out for you, I'd love to see him in the premiership, but hopefully he'll have a minor injury when you face Brighton.
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Koh Rong perhaps? I was there 2 years ago. No Wi-Fi at that place but pretty cool.
 
7even said:
In about two weeks MUFC 2020 annual report is available.

All available numbers indicates that the club will report a loss. We will probably see a decrease in our cash reserves and regarding the daily cash flow we sometimes will use the new revolving credit of £140m.

I mention this again.

From what I can see our maximum transfer budget is (excluding player sales) around £50-60m. We probably pay the DvdB fee to Ajax in two installments, 25+20m or similar.

So that means that there is approximately £30-40m + players sales (Smalling a s o) left to offer Borussia Dortmund as a first initial installment if we can reach an agreement with them.
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I've been wondering if we would try to push this through before the report or after. Would it be beneficial for either? I'm asking as I'm not clued up on it.
 
HowYouDoin said:
I am so effin tired of this Sancho saga. There's 3 signings we need that are not Sancho, a CB, a FB and a backup striker.
I almost hope we dont get Sancho then we have Greenwood scoring over 15 PL goals (and thats being conservative) from that right wing position along with Martial scoring over 20, might make us think twice if we really need a new starter at those positions.

Again, got some flak for saying this but right wing isnt our weakness. It was for many years, true. Until Greenwood came along but after the lockdown he made the position his. Its no longer a weakness.

Am I the only one that prefers we dont get Sancho? Seems like it.
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Greenwood is 18. He shouldn't be shouldering the responsibility of consistently producing at such a young age, not if we actually want to win titles. Sancho would also allow Greenwood to play up top in his favoured position. It's a complete no brainer.
 
DancingPanda said:
Hypothetically, would you guys be happy with Van De Beek and Sancho for this window?

Personally I don't see the center back position as such an urgent issue right now, and rather get an offensive full back as an option instead. But i'd be very happy with only getting De Beek and Sancho due to the current situation. That's an amazing window all things considered
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Actually yes... surprisingly. That would mean that Midfield and Attack is sorted for the next couple of seasons (except maybe a Striker to replace Ighalo).

The defence has generally been ok to begin with, its not perfect by any means, but they get the job done in most cases. If we get Sancho, it would really mean a good transfer window. Anyone else (a CB or a LB) would just be a bonus during this pandemic.
 
So nothings changed really. Still waiting to put the bid in. Personal terms already agreed. Don’t know why all the fuss last night!?
 
Zlatans Knee said:
Someone else has probably said this in the 934 pages but what I don’t get is why agree on personal terms so far in advance if the clubs are still far apart in their valuation of the player? Wouldn’t BD be pissed off that another club has agreed terms with their player? I understand that this happens all the time but it still strikes me as weird.
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I guess it would depend on your relationships as clubs and how the transfers are actually dealt with. As we are on good terms with Ajax we agreed the fee first and then personal terms were dealt with very quickly (for Van De Beeky).

When you’re dealing on a massive transfer like this there are a lot more parties who will be involved. Supposedly there’s a few third parties doing work, I’ve seen Lichsteiner’s brother referenced a couple times as an intermediary. Especially when there’s a bit of bad blood already — the Germans crying into their brautwurst about Mkhitaryan joining fifth place Manchester United after Raiola threw a couple chairs to get him out comes to mind a few seasons back.
 
7even said:
In about two weeks MUFC 2020 annual report is available.

All available numbers indicates that the club will report a loss. We will probably see a decrease in our cash reserves and regarding the daily cash flow we sometimes will use the new revolving credit of £140m.

I mention this again.

From what I can see our maximum transfer budget is (excluding player sales) around £50-60m. We probably pay the DvdB fee to Ajax in two installments, 25+20m or similar.

So that means that there is approximately £30-40m + players sales (Smalling a s o) left to offer Borussia Dortmund as a first initial installment if we can reach an agreement with them.
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I'm completely dumb on this topic, but from my 5 minutes of internet research, how does amortisation of transfer fees apply to the balance sheet? Again, i'm a complete dumbass, but say VDB is 40 million on a 4 year contract, doesn't that show on our balance sheet as 10 million spent this this financial period?
 
7even said:
In about two weeks MUFC 2020 annual report is available.

All available numbers indicates that the club will report a loss. We will probably see a decrease in our cash reserves and regarding the daily cash flow we sometimes will use the new revolving credit of £140m.

I mention this again.

From what I can see our maximum transfer budget is (excluding player sales) around £50-60m. We probably pay the DvdB fee to Ajax in two installments, 25+20m or similar.

So that means that there is approximately £30-40m + players sales (Smalling a s o) left to offer Borussia Dortmund as a first initial installment if we can reach an agreement with them.
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I can't see that the club would let it get to this stage, agree terms with the player, only for us to offer offer far less than we already know Dortmund will accept.

There could be big advertisement endorsements involved to get this over the line, that's my expectation.
 
For anyone doubting that we'll hit 1000 pages.. We did 35 in 24 hours after news that we pretty much already knew.. Imagine when it comes out that we've agreed a fee. We'll probably hit 2000.
 
Yeah i feel we wouldn't be briefing that we've agreed terms if we don't have a good chance of agreeing a fee.
 
7even said:
In about two weeks MUFC 2020 annual report is available.

All available numbers indicates that the club will report a loss. We will probably see a decrease in our cash reserves and regarding the daily cash flow we sometimes will use the new revolving credit of £140m.

I mention this again.

From what I can see our maximum transfer budget is (excluding player sales) around £50-60m. We probably pay the DvdB fee to Ajax in two installments, 25+20m or similar.

So that means that there is approximately £30-40m + players sales (Smalling a s o) left to offer Borussia Dortmund as a first initial installment if we can reach an agreement with them.
Click to expand...
If the transfer budget is 50-60 million then we wouldn't be in for Sancho. Every reliable reporting on the transfer is saying only big bid will take it. Considering VDB has already happened, whatever is left is not enough to take it, even if it is in installments.

That being said, I disagree with your assessment of loss being a factor in our transfer budget. It's called a budget for a reason, because that money has been put aside. Loss and profit has NOTHING to do with budgets of the ongoing FY (unless it's terminal, which in our case isn't). The budgets for the next FY, is what gets affected, and the US FY ends only on Sept 30. Oct 1 is next FY. We would be nowhere near the Sancho deal if we didn't have the money.

There are projections for revenue all the time, but even here investor calls say a lot about the financial health of a club. Something peculiar happened a couple of days ago. Whatever was said in that call led to a MASSIVE 8% jump in stock value.

So what I'm saying is, I reject your financial analysis and furthermore believe that Sancho outlay maybe around the corner.
 
2ndTouch said:
But not in Germany.
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Right so i must have misunderstood you earlier. So no player playing for a German club has ever requested a transfer away from that club?

If they have done so, which i suspect they have. Then logically transfer requests (formal or informal) do in fact exist in Germany.
 
stevoc said:
Right so i must have misunderstood you earlier. So no player playing for a German club has ever requested a transfer away from that club?

If they have done so, which i suspect they have. Then logically transfer requests do in fact exist in Germany.
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Arent Bayern waiting on Thiago to ask for a move?
 
sewey89 said:
For anyone doubting that we'll hit 1000 pages.. We did 35 in 24 hours after news that we pretty much already knew.. Imagine when it comes out that we've agreed a fee. We'll probably hit 2000.
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it was a brief yesterday, which shows there is still strong intent to get it done.. thats pretty significant after it appeared to be dead

in any case, nobody doubts our ability to smash through 1000 pages
 
sewey89 said:
For anyone doubting that we'll hit 1000 pages.. We did 35 in 24 hours after news that we pretty much already knew.. Imagine when it comes out that we've agreed a fee. We'll probably hit 2000.
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I joked a few weeks back we'd hit 1000 pages, now I really think we'll hit it. Longest saga I can remember in ages
 
I'm confused as to what breakthrough has been made. It seemed to always be the case that we only needed to cough up the full fee at this point on Dortmund's terms.
 
The Red Thinker said:
If the transfer budget is 50-60 million then we wouldn't be in for Sancho. Every reliable reporting on the transfer is saying only big bid will take it. Considering VDB has already happened, whatever is left is not enough to take it, even if it is in installments.

That being said, I disagree with your assessment of loss being a factor in our transfer budget. It's called a budget for a reason, because that money has been put aside. Loss and profit has NOTHING to do with budgets of the ongoing FY (unless it's terminal, which in our case isn't). The budgets for the next FY, is what gets affected, and the US FY ends only on Sept 30. Oct 1 is next FY. We would be nowhere near the Sancho deal if we didn't have the money.

There are projections for revenue all the time, but even here investor calls say a lot about the financial health of a club. Something peculiar happened a couple of days ago. Whatever was said in that call led to a MASSIVE 8% jump in stock value.

So what I'm saying is, I reject your financial analysis and furthermore believe that Sancho outlay maybe around the corner.
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Sorry but I can’t take your post seriously when you suggest that our loss/profit doesn’t affect next seasons transfer budget. You believe in your theories so let’s leave it there. Time will tell.
 
DancingPanda said:
Hypothetically, would you guys be happy with Van De Beek and Sancho for this window?

Personally I don't see the center back position as such an urgent issue right now, and rather get an offensive full back as an option instead. But i'd be very happy with only getting De Beek and Sancho due to the current situation. That's an amazing window all things considered
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Yes, I would also be happy with only Sancho, tbh. We hadn't had a proper RW since Nani.
 
Zlatans Knee said:
Someone else has probably said this in the 934 pages but what I don’t get is why agree on personal terms so far in advance if the clubs are still far apart in their valuation of the player? Wouldn’t BD be pissed off that another club has agreed terms with their player? I understand that this happens all the time but it still strikes me as weird.
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Why bid for a player when they aren't happy to come? If all of that hasn't been ironed out with the player it's a waste of time speaking to the club.

Football's a bit ridiculous in this regard anyway. Imagine a business in any other field where the employer could stop an employee from attending interviews and getting a better job in another company.
 
Zehner said:
Yeah, its all a giant conspiracy. The only football forum bigger than the RedCafe is the secret one all oppo fans use to organize the wumming in the RedCafe.
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No, they just come on here because we have one of the largest fanbases in the world, so the forum is very active. And they come to WUM with no prior planning, believe it or not.
 
blue blue said:
https://talksport.com/football/738373/chelsea-transfer-news-live-mendy-man-utd-kante/

Utd do have a tendancy to sign Chelsea players at inflated prices though.

I still think Kante is a great player and only hope he can return to the form of three years ago. Sarri used him in a different role to Conte and he wasn't so effective, he had injuries last season and played in a different set up and generally he hasn't hit the heights of his first season at Chelsea. They may sell him but I have mixed feelings about that. He's 29 so it will be their last chance to make a decent profit on him.

Never understood why Mata doesn't play more at Utd.
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Talk sport is your source. Ha ha! Come on.
 
blue blue said:
Utd do have a tendancy to sign Chelsea players at inflated prices though.
never understood why Mata doesn't play more at Utd.
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Are you for real ? We sign Mata who was you're POTY for 2 yrs running and based on his performances for you was worth it, and ok maybe matic was over priced and thats it. Where you take the has beens and give us money for nothing like with Mikel and even gave us 21.5 million in 03 for veron after he failed here and took on another failure here in Falcao or Bosnich and lest we forget how you cobbled up Sparky after AF stated he was passes it and sent him packing in 95 same with Donaghy.
 
No German news outlets are reporting as much as a sniff of this today.

Seems this latest development isn't the breakthrough the English media are touting it as :(
 
SSSSnake said:
So nothings changed really. Still waiting to put the bid in. Personal terms already agreed. Don’t know why all the fuss last night!?
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Depends on whether you believe only Romano who says this has been the case for a while. I for one don't believe him, I think he guessed they were and is willing to die on that hill, yesterday the club clearly briefed dozens of press outlets that there had been a breakthrough on those personal terms and agent fees.

So again, it depends who you believe. Many will blindly follow their shepherd like sheep.
 
Withnail said:
Why bid for a player when they aren't happy to come? If all of that hasn't been ironed out with the player it's a waste of time speaking to the club.

Football's a bit ridiculous in this regard anyway. Imagine a business in any other field where the employer could stop an employee from attending interviews and getting a better job in another company.
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True, but there are not too many jobs where you have to pay the current employer compensation for taking their employee off their hands. Employees are more or less free to resign from their current employer.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Depends on whether you believe only Romano who says this has been the case for a while. I for one don't believe him, I think he guessed they were and is willing to die on that hill, yesterday the club clearly briefed dozens of press outlets that there had been a breakthrough on those personal terms and agent fees.

So again, it depends who you believe. Many will blindly follow their shepherd like sheep.
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Thing is what do United gain by putting it out there that wages and agent fees are agreed? I can't see it making Dortmund soften their stance on the asking price so what advantage do United have by briefing the press of this fact?
 
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