Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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Giggsy13 said:
He’ll go to Chelsea or the dippers next year. if Ole isn’t properly backed this summer then finishing top 4 will be a problem meaning NO chance of getting him next summer. The dippers are well run so may decide to cash in on Salah, if they do that, the Sancho is there’s to lose because the Klopp factor is so big. Chelsea will be around and a contender for him cause they’re primed for a top 3 finish next year and are demonstrating that they’re serious about winning the title again.
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My fear is that he goes to a rival premier league team.

I think it’s pretty clear he’s desperate to come to the premier league as he wants to return home.

If this goes to next summer, there are basically 4 options that are realistic.
Utd, Liverpool, City and Chelsea.

Utd - we will definitely be interested

Liverpool - most certainly be interested but would need to sell Mane or Salah first or have an agreement to let one of them go in order to fund the transfer

City - I don’t think there’s any chance he goes there. He’s said he doesn’t want to and don’t think Pep would want him while he’s there.

Chelsea - I would be surprised if they went in for him as they would have Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech as their attacking mids. Sancho would probably see Ziyech out of the team but it’s whether Chelsea would spend that big again after such heavy spending this summer.

Based on the above we would still be in a strong position to sign him but it’s extremely risky allowing other horses to join the race. Especially if we have a poor season and don’t even make top 4.

It’s now or never for me.
 
Bratt said:
First, Sanchos cousin posted on instagram a picture of Sancho woth his signature boots and he wrote something like "I guess I’ll have to start supporting the red devils now"
He deleted the post not long after making a new post saying he thought the blue nike jersey Sancho was wearing in the picture was a United jersey. Shortly after he made his account private.

Then Sancho’s barber posted a picture of a newly cut Sancho with the tags #dortmund and #manchester. This was also deleted shortly after.

Some think this means they were both told by united guys or Sanchos guys to delete these posts as they were leaking info that should not yet be out.
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Thank you
 
Isotope said:
What's your expectation next season that needs a 120m investment?
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If we want to be in the discussion for things like final four of CL and competing for 1 and 2 in the league. Then this squad needs significant investment. If we are fine with battling for 3 and 4 (with a realistic chance of finishing 5th and 6th), while probably going out in round of 16 or group in CL, then don't invest in the squad.

It was pretty telling how dependent we were on the first XI even with a massive fixture build-up.
 
I doubt he'd join us next summer. Few things, we'll annoy the player not being able to sign him this window, we could very much have a poor season if we don't strengthen, might not make CL and the price will be similar etc It's now or never imo
 
Womp said:
I doubt he'd join us next summer. Few things, we'll annoy the player not being able to sign him this window, we could very much have a poor season if we don't strengthen, might not make CL and the price will be similar etc It's now or never imo
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How would other clubs be at an advantage in that regard? They haven't come any closer :lol:
 
VP89 said:
How would other clubs be at an advantage in that regard? They haven't come any closer :lol:
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Other clubs haven't wasted 1-2 years planning for this transfer only to refuse to meet the player's valuation. It's very evident we are the clear frontrunners.
 
Womp said:
I doubt he'd join us next summer. Few things, we'll annoy the player not being able to sign him this window, we could very much have a poor season if we don't strengthen, might not make CL and the price will be similar etc It's now or never imo
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I agree, I wouldn't quite say it's now or never but the player would be forgiven for questioning whether we really value him or not.

That being said I don't see 12 months really changing the landscape as to who else may be in for him, still feel Madrid's priority would be Mbappe (or Pogba), Barca's will be Neymar, Liverpool would need to probably sell to buy him and I don't think Salah or Mane are going for a fee equal to Sancho, City still won't be an option unless Pep's no longer there, Chelsea maybe but then they've been priced out this summer and are spending big elsewhere

Just bloody annoying not getting him now even if we do pull it off in 12 months time
 
Womp said:
Other clubs haven't wasted 1-2 years planning for this transfer only to refuse to meet the player's valuation. It's very evident we are the clear frontrunners.
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So as part of your reasoning you think Sancho will be upset that we showed more of an initiative than other clubs, and couldn't meet structural fee demands in light of covid. And that he will likely favour a move towards a club that didn't bother as much as we did in the first place?

It's top class creativity, has to be said.
 
VP89 said:
So as part of your reasoning you think Sancho will be upset that we showed more of an initiative than other clubs, and couldn't meet structural fee demands in light of covid. And that he will likely favour a move towards a club that didn't bother as much as we did in the first place?

It's top class creativity, has to be said.
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It's not about the price or initiative. He will be annoyed by the fact that despite all the caveats you mentioned, we still had intention to sign him, but refused to meet his valuation, in a summer he clearly wanted to return to England in. Other clubs aren't as big of an issue, as there's many reasons as to why they may not be able to pursue Sancho this window. That's different to deciding to pursue him, only to think he's not worth Dortmund's valuation.

We aren't stupid, we were having a laugh if we ever thought we would get him for much less than Dortmund were demanding anyway, he would know that too
 
Chief123 said:
My fear is that he goes to a rival premier league team.

I think it’s pretty clear he’s desperate to come to the premier league as he wants to return home.

If this goes to next summer, there are basically 4 options that are realistic.
Utd, Liverpool, City and Chelsea.

Utd - we will definitely be interested

Liverpool - most certainly be interested but would need to sell Mane or Salah first or have an agreement to let one of them go in order to fund the transfer

City - I don’t think there’s any chance he goes there. He’s said he doesn’t want to and don’t think Pep would want him while he’s there.

Chelsea - I would be surprised if they went in for him as they would have Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech as their attacking mids. Sancho would probably see Ziyech out of the team but it’s whether Chelsea would spend that big again after such heavy spending this summer.

Based on the above we would still be in a strong position to sign him but it’s extremely risky allowing other horses to join the race. Especially if we have a poor season and don’t even make top 4.

It’s now or never for me.
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So despite your own analysis showing we would still be favourites next year, it’s now or never for you? Classic redcafe logic!
 
Womp said:
It's not about the price or initiative. He will be annoyed by the fact that despite all the caveats you mentioned, we still had intention to sign him, but refused to meet his valuation, in a summer he clearly wanted to return to England in. Other clubs aren't as big of an issue, as there's many reasons as to why they may not be able to pursue Sancho this window. That's different to deciding to pursue him, only to think he's not worth Dortmund's valuation.

We aren't stupid, we were having a laugh if we ever thought we would get him for much less than Dortmund were demanding anyway, he would know that too
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No, he won't be annoyed to the point that he wouldn't want to join us next season FFS :lol:
 
dove said:
No, he won't be annoyed to the point that he wouldn't want to join us next season FFS :lol:
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It won't be the only factor, but it will certainly be one of the things he for sure considers. When you take into account the fact that without significant investment, missing out on CL is a huge possibility, that there are teams in England he may prefer joining could be in for him etc. I doubt it's as easy as suggesting we will easily get him next summer
 
Womp said:
It's not about the price or initiative. He will be annoyed by the fact that despite all the caveats you mentioned, we still had intention to sign him, but refused to meet his valuation, in a summer he clearly wanted to return to England in. Other clubs aren't as big of an issue, as there's many reasons as to why they may not be able to pursue Sancho this window. That's different to deciding to pursue him, only to think he's not worth Dortmund's valuation.
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What rubbish is this? He's not unsettled, he's not desperate to move, he's by all accounts extremely relaxed of the situation. He is not inconvenienced in any shape or form by us failing to reach an agreement with a club which quite frankly, is appearing to ask for an ambitious amount upfront. We are doing more to bring him to England than any other club are, so this idea that he'd hold anything against us is just garbage.
Womp said:
We aren't stupid, we were having a laugh if we ever thought we would get him for much less than Dortmund were demanding anyway, he would know that too
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From credible reports it's more the structure of the fee rather than the total fee itself which appears to be a major stumbling block.
 
VP89 said:
What rubbish is this? He's not unsettled, he's not desperate to move, he's by all accounts extremely relaxed of the situation. He is not inconvenienced in any shape or form by us failing to reach an agreement with a club which quite frankly, is appearing to ask for an ambitious amount upfront. We are doing more to bring him to England than any other club are, so this idea that he'd hold anything against us is just garbage.

From credible reports it's more the structure of the fee rather than the total fee itself which appears to be a major stumbling block.
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Yes, expecting to move back to your country of residence, only for said team, after negotiating a contract with you, refuses to meet the valuation of the selling club, despite almost 2 years of back and forth negotiation. That wouldn't be frustrating at all.

Once again, us doing 'more than everyone else' has nothing to do with it. He would understand if we could not pursue him due to Covid etc. That's completely understandable. What would be frustrating for him as a player is despite all of that, we still decided to pursue him, negotiate a contract with him etc. only for us to not value him enough to get it over the line. If you're agreeing contracts with teams, you are under the impression that move is going to happen.

It would be as frustrating as if anyone else was close to joining a new organisation they planned to move to, only for the move to fall through because said company basically says they don't value you as an asset enough to get it over the line.

Like I said, I don't think it'll be the only factor, but when you consider there will most likely be other teams in for him, assuming the circumstances have improved, that there is a very strong possibility we can miss out on CL football etc. - I do believe it's something both him and Dortmund will consider
 
Womp said:
Yes, expecting to move back to your country of residence, only for said team, after negotiating a contract with you, refuses to meet the valuation of the selling club, despite almost 2 years of back and forth negotiation. That wouldn't be frustrating at all.
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Why do you think he's expecting to move back this summer like it's some sort of inevitability. The well reputable journalists said he wants to move but is relaxed about the situation. You think he'd hold grudges at us for that? Christ that's grasping at more straws than a masturbating strawman.
Womp said:
Once again, us doing 'more than everyone else' has nothing to do with it. He would understand if we could not pursue him due to Covid etc. That's completely understandable. What would be frustrating for him as a player is despite all of that, we still decided to pursue him, negotiate a contract with him etc. only for us to not value him enough to get it over the line. If you're agreeing contracts with teams, you are under the impression that move is going to happen.
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Of course it does, because you're saying he will choose a club that did feck all to try and bring him here over us, because we couldn't reach an initial agreement in a pandemic window. Listen to yourself.
Womp said:
It would be as frustrating as if anyone else was close to joining a new organisation they planned to move to, only for the move to fall through because said company basically says they don't value you as an asset enough to get it over the line.
Like I said, I don't think it'll be the only factor, but when you consider there will most likely be other teams in for him, assuming the circumstances have improved, that there is a very strong possibility we can miss out on CL football etc. - I do believe it's something both him and Dortmund will consider
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Honestly, the whole argument is a bit bullshit to me. I can understand him being off coming to us if we failed to show progression this season and dropped out the Champions League, but not much else.
 
VP89 said:
Why do you think he's expecting to move back this summer like it's some sort of inevitability. The well reputable journalists said he wants to move but is relaxed about the situation. You think he'd hold grudges at us for that? Christ that's grasping at more straws than a masturbating strawman.

Of course it does, because you're saying he will choose a club that did feck all to try and bring him here over us, because we couldn't reach an initial agreement in a pandemic window. Listen to yourself.

Honestly, the whole argument is a bit bullshit to me. I can understand him being off coming to us if we failed to show progression this season and dropped out the Champions League, but not much else.
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You're still missing the point of the argument here. Not pursuing him as we're skint due to covid is fine. Getting his hopes up over a move, to the point where we have agreed a contract, only to pull out due to not valuing him is not so fine.

I'd be pissed in his situation, moving to a country you're more accustomed to, that you want to play in, probably get a pay rise etc. It's also been well documented for years now that he's always wanted to move back to England. It would be annoying for anyone.

He may well be happy to stay, In fact, I agree with that sentiment, but he's obviously been convinced he was going to move, hence the contract, only for it to fall through. I can see that being annoying for anyone. We can agree to disagree though.
 
Womp said:
You're still missing the point of the argument here. Not pursuing him as we're skint due to covid is fine. Getting his hopes up over a move, to the point where we have agreed a contract, only to pull out due to not valuing him is not so fine.

I'd be pissed in his situation, moving to a country you're more accustomed to, that you want to play in, probably get a pay rise etc. It's also been well documented for years now that he's always wanted to move back to England. It would be annoying for anyone.

He may well be happy to stay, In fact, I agree with that sentiment, but he's obviously been convinced he was going to move, hence the contract, only for it to fall through. I can see that being annoying for anyone. We can agree to disagree though.
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That's why I think that we haven't walked away yet. We're going to do what we can to get him in especially after we agreed personal terms with him (despite what British journalists say). Despite what the German journalists will report, I doubt we'd look to pay less; the structure of the payments will be critical here.
 
Womp said:
You're still missing the point of the argument here. Not pursuing him as we're skint due to covid is fine. Getting his hopes up over a move, to the point where we have agreed a contract, only to pull out due to not valuing him is not so fine.

I'd be pissed in his situation, moving to a country you're more accustomed to, that you want to play in, probably get a pay rise etc. It's also been well documented for years now that he's always wanted to move back to England. It would be annoying for anyone.

He may well be happy to stay, In fact, I agree with that sentiment, but he's obviously been convinced he was going to move, hence the contract, only for it to fall through. I can see that being annoying for anyone. We can agree to disagree though.
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I'm not missing any point. This idea that he'd be pissed off that a club couldn't agree the payment in a pandemic environment will not piss him off. He's old enough to know that 120m EUR upfront is a lot tricker to put up today than it was even 1 month ago, when clubs were planning for fans to return from October.
This concept that he'd factor any weighting against Manchester United for not completing the deal is just stupid. If he's half as desperate to move as you say, he would push for a move and help us complete the deal. But he's not. So that's quite clear evidence that he's fine with staying a year and moving the following if it comes to it. He's not going to think "oh Manchester United couldn't agree the deal, feck them how rude" :lol: He's not some Vicky Pollard sort of character (Little Britain reference) that formulates illogical arguments like that.
 
I don't understand the ideology of signing him next season ? It's very likely the pandemic situation will be far more lax given how society is being freed up in the past few months. Reminder to everyone that his contracted until 2023 if the footballing economy returns to its norm what's to stop Dortmund asking 140 million ?

104 million pounds is in no way a poor valuation irrespective of the pandemic. It's good value for a player of Sancho's quality. I can't see why the club is in tense negotiations, having paid 20 million less for above average Maguire.
 
sp_107 said:
I dont understand, If we can bid 100M+ for Ansu Fati then why dont we use that money for Sancho?
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Just because we can doesn't mean we have. There have no reliable news reports of us putting in a bid for Ansu Fati.
 
VP89 said:
I'm not missing any point. This idea that he'd be pissed off that a club couldn't agree the payment in a pandemic environment will not piss him off. He's old enough to know that 120m EUR upfront is a lot tricker to put up today than it was even 1 month ago, when clubs were planning for fans to return from October.
This concept that he'd factor any weighting against Manchester United for not completing the deal is just stupid. If he's half as desperate to move as you say, he would push for a move and help us complete the deal. But he's not. So that's quite clear evidence that he's fine with staying a year and moving the following if it comes to it. He's not going to think "oh Manchester United couldn't agree the deal, feck them how rude" :lol: He's not some Vicky Pollard sort of character (Little Britain reference) that formulates illogical arguments like that.
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Few things here. To begin, I'm yet to see reliable reports to suggest they want 120m up front? That's a ridiculous sentiment that I believe has originated from Fab's tweet a few days ago about them not accepting ridiculous instalments. If they wanted 120m up front in this environment, we would not be negotiating with them (if we even still are). They would want respectable instalments which would amount to the 120m, which is very reasonable for a player of his qualities. Which is also something we could easily justify, which we are choosing not to. If we are going to be pedantic, if we couldn't afford him, we would have never went into this in the first place, the board aren't stupid, they would have known how much he would have been valued at before going into this. We chose to continue pursuing him and we are choosing not to pay what is required, despite knowing his value.

Secondly, I've never claimed he was desperate to move. I have maintained that he would want the move though. If he didn't, he wouldn't have agreed terms with us, stayed quiet when asked publicly etc.

Thirdly, 'he should push for the move if he wants to really come' is a nonsense argument. We haven't agreed a fee with Dortmund. It's hardly as if Dortmund are just refusing to let the lad go. They gave us a figure, we haven't bid anything close to it, why would he risk ruining his relationship with his current employer for a club that doesn't even seem interested in him enough to put forward a respectable bid? Not to add, he has a lot to thank Dortmund for, which is more incentive for him not to act up.

Also as I've already said, it won't be the be all and end all for him joining us next summer, but It would for sure be something he considers if he does have multiple suitors, offering similar terms and similar, if not better, progression. If anyone was offered a job with more pay, somewhere they've wanted to work for years. You're told you got the job, only for it to fall through because they don't value you enough. It would annoy anyone. Even if you were happy at your current job.

It's obvious this is something we don't agree on though, so let's leave it here, can't be arsed discussing
 
sp_107 said:
I dont understand, If we can bid 100M+ for Ansu Fati then why dont we use that money for Sancho?
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Because we haven't bid 100m+ for Fati, nor have any intention to.

passing-wind said:
I don't understand the ideology of signing him next season ? It's very likely the pandemic situation will be far more lax given how society is being freed up in the past few months. Reminder to everyone that his contracted until 2023 if the footballing economy returns to its norm what's to stop Dortmund asking 140 million ?

104 million pounds is in no way a poor valuation irrespective of the pandemic. It's good value for a player of Sancho's quality. I can't see why the club is in tense negotiations, having paid 20 million less for above average Maguire.
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I agree, the club (as of yet) don't seem to though. I do think we're really missing a golden opportunity here. This could be something we rue for a long time
 
charlenefan said:
I agree, I wouldn't quite say it's now or never but the player would be forgiven for questioning whether we really value him or not.

That being said I don't see 12 months really changing the landscape as to who else may be in for him, still feel Madrid's priority would be Mbappe (or Pogba), Barca's will be Neymar, Liverpool would need to probably sell to buy him and I don't think Salah or Mane are going for a fee equal to Sancho, City still won't be an option unless Pep's no longer there, Chelsea maybe but then they've been priced out this summer and are spending big elsewhere

Just bloody annoying not getting him now even if we do pull it off in 12 months time
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Chelsea spending big this year is last year and this yrs transfer budget together. I can definitely see a scenario where say their team does well and they come 2nd or 3rd, they could go all out for Sancho at say 80-100m to put them over the edge to contenders, no? In any case its not like they have any real spending limitations other than Abramovich's whims.
 
Ed and Judges merchant bank negotiating skills are legendary in their ability to improve the rosrer, Haarland was Norwegian and had ties to th manager, but they had no faith in their ability to retain him and walked away. Sancho has been on their radar for a while and yet seems like the again lowballed the selling club who appear tired of their tactics.

what will change with regards to the others like a Grealish etc, still the almost burner like posters come in consistently pointing out reasons for their failure. Ed is basically useless and the owners behind him are investors not football people,enough said. Not a good look for possibly the country’s biggest club as they fail to add class and depth to a roster that remains behind the top 2 .
 
If past is prologue, Ed will do a Fellaini soon. Wait till the end fo the transfer window and then pay more than the original asking price.

SanchON.
 
charlenefan said:
I agree, I wouldn't quite say it's now or never but the player would be forgiven for questioning whether we really value him or not.

That being said I don't see 12 months really changing the landscape as to who else may be in for him, still feel Madrid's priority would be Mbappe (or Pogba), Barca's will be Neymar, Liverpool would need to probably sell to buy him and I don't think Salah or Mane are going for a fee equal to Sancho, City still won't be an option unless Pep's no longer there, Chelsea maybe but then they've been priced out this summer and are spending big elsewhere

Just bloody annoying not getting him now even if we do pull it off in 12 months time
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I doubt we will be signing him next season if he is available. Madrid, barcelona and psg will all be interested in sancho next season.

Mbappe might be first choice but if psg say no and mbappe doesn't throw his toys out of the pram they will still need a quality winger and sancho is the next best option. If psg sell, sancho would be pretty high on the mbappe replacement list. Looks like Messi will leave and there will be a massive clearout and I don't see psg selling both neymar and mbappe, so sancho will definitely be an option for barca.

All 3 teams can match whatever we offer him and provide a better chance at trophies. Given he left England at a young age don't think he will balk at going to either France or Spain. This is basically pogba transfer sancho edition, we are the only club who might have the money to sign him this season and he will sign if we fork up the fee but if we wait a year for others to get the cash we will no longer be the favorites to sign him.
 
I fully think that the reason he’s not signed yet is because Ed has vowed to sign him the first day that nobody posts ‘Happy Sancho Day’
 
So all that sweat and tears to get in top four was pretty much a waste. I truly thought having pulled it off, we would be able to attract the stars we need. I forgot what a total tosser Woodward is, what a complete mess the club set-up is really in (90 years on we will still be "looking to appoint a DoF).

What a waste to time (doing no other transfer work while this was going on). It honestly looks like the hierarchy is happy with top-four finish and not interested in actually mounting a challenge for title. The current squad isn't strong enough to go deep into the CL either.

These days, the chance for United to sign top-class stars isn't what it used to be. So many other clubs with big money. Total feck-up. What a disgrace
 
Sancho is still in London (according to ATC guys), and Dortmund coincidentally had a closed training session today. I think this is the week shit is about to go down.
 
My guess is that we'll walk away and try again next year but other clubs will be in for him so unless we are both in the champions league and willing to pay a record fee at that time we won't get him then either.
 
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