Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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Chief123 said:
I’ve no idea mate. But it was just a point to note based on what @RDCR07 was saying.

I personally wouldn’t be comfortable with being owned by the Saudis from a moral point of view.

But in relation to the point, if we make 1% of our income from the Saudis or are owned by them. From a morality point of view we are still taking their money right?

You can’t be a little bit pregnant.
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The point that you and @RDCR07 don't seem to grasp is that it is about the level of influence on the club. Not black and white morality.

There is a massive difference of influence between a sponsorship deal that contributes a small percentage of revenue, and being 100% owned and financed to sportswash a çountries image.

To give an even clearer sense of scale, the value of the club is £4bn, the sponsorship deal is what, probably worth £50m? A fraction.

Pregnancy is an amusing but inaccurate analogy, I'm afraid.
 
I have officially reached the point where I could happily accept us walking away because it's going nowhere. Think it is time to start looking at other options while there is still some on the market
 
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do.ob said:
@7even
They will use loans to cover their Covid losses. What's the point of staying debt free when it means that you have to dismantle your squad for discount prices? It's like a baker selling his oven so he can pay the flour. And since we don't even know how much United are actually offering it's impossible to tell how much of a gamble Dortmund are taking, when they keep him for another year.

I think I've already said this before, but why is it so impossible to believe that another club might take debt at all, when you're supporting a club that has secured another €150m in loans on top of €450m net debt?
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kitress said:
Dortmund talk a lot of shit but it's in their best interests to sell this summer. Sancho's price will not increase next season because clubs will have less money, not more. We're looking at empty stadiums next season. Clubs' finances will have been deteriorated for so long it will take time (long time) for them to go back to normal. They won't be magically awash in money just because the virus is gone (and this virus will stay around for a long time). All that means is clubs will be more prudent in spending. Even in the best of times (pre Covid), only a very very few clubs can afford a signing of 120 mil.

And given Sancho's penchant for "coming home," that limits their options even further. City won't be in for him because of their recruitment strategy (they don't do record signings). Chelsea, having spent big this season, won't do it again so soon (plus they have too many quality wingers already). Arsenal can barely scrape together 80mil pre-Covid. Liverpool don't have the finance. That leaves only United.

Dortmund will what, double his salary if he stays. That's just more bullshit talking. Yeah, good luck breaking their wage structure during the pandemic. How are they gonna explain when their other players come asking for more? Can't because of pandemic? Right.

I won't be too fussed if this deal doesn't go through. Lovely player. But we can wait next season. It's also the most distasteful thing the club can do during a pandemic -- a record signing. Normally that's some nice PR. Presently it's simply insensitive.
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Gasolin said:
The interest is the problem here to be fair. Your sentence is all about being a supporter, but again, if you run the club, you sometimes have to dismantle your squad, whatever the prices. Just like some people can't pay the mortgage back and are forced to go into foreclosure.

No clubs is immune to this COVID situation, United had 90m GBP cash reserve and took a credit line of 150m GBP. The scale of the numbers are different and even United struggles. And that's exactly our msg to BVB: no one can pay you more than 60m EUR upfront, so take that. So far, they seem to refuse.

I don't blame them, I am currently a seller in a real estate transaction myself, and I am about to reject an offer. But I have to pay the interests and I am not sure I'll be able to reduce the principal to be in a safer position. I simply don't know, and I can't know. If I want to be safe, I would sell despite the lower offer.
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@do.ob

According to BD latest information to shareholders the club will first use their credit of €60m until life goes back to normal. Nothing in that information mention anything about taking loans, instead both BD board and CEO Watzke specifically mention that the club has cash and cash equivalents that will secure that the club can stay financially healthy and cover future losses. Also in BD latest Q3 report your board specifically highlight that part of your clubs business plan is to sell valuable players in order to generating cash.

As a old man I’m perfectly aware of that special circumstances creates special solutions. Nothing is set in stone when the whole world is affected by a deadly virus, so anything is possible. But right now there is no indication from the board and your CEO that the club has changed their business model and financial strategy.

The sensible thing for any club who’s profitable is to have at least 20% of annual revenue in cash and cash equivalents. But right now both BD and MU expects annual losses and the forecast for next fiscal year is filled with uncertainty, that’s why I think MU transfer budget is reduced and that BD sooner or later will sell players to balance their books.


The sensible thing for any club who’s profitable is to have at least 20% of annual revenue in cash and cash equivalents. But right now both BD and MU expects annual losses and the forecast for next fiscal year is filled with uncertainty, that’s why I think MU transfer budget is reduced and that BD sooner or later will sell players to balance their books.
 
bond19821982 said:
For a start
1) you are underestimating the financial implications of this pandemic. Doesn't matter if it started 3/4/6 months ago, no one knows how the world is going to be (let alone the footballing world)
2) Chelsea is the only team who has spent lot of money only because they are sitting on huge cash from last year and the sales.
3) agree on the bargain deals- which I have been saying as well. But in that case Sancho is a no go. I believe management wants Sancho and depending upon that we will go for others (loan or purchase)

Just relax and judge the window on October. Everything before that is a pure knee-jerk. We just don't know what's happening on the background.
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You are feeding to the Glazer narrative, largest club in the world doesn’t have money, BVB is unreasonable, Sancho wants high wages. Watzke and Zorc understood that Ed was full of it when he made the 60 mil offer. reminds me when we offered 27 mil for fellaini and baines combined. we are a club run by monkeys, stop making excuses for Glazers mate. We can’t afford Sancho because Glazers’ other businesses are failing because of the pandemic and they need money from our club to bail them out, again.
today most newspapers are writing that we have given up on Sancho, this was the last nail in the coffin, our officials admitting that deal is over. now 27 mil for Costa , what is worse deal than 108 mil for Sancho. we will just help out barca and juve with their deadwood problem
 
This transfer will have a chance only if Sancho starts throwing tantrums. For now it seems best for united to move on and secure achievable targets who can improve our current squad. There is no way we can survive full season with the squad we have today.
 
Womp said:
Reports prior to this window suggested we had around 150m iirc. The credit line was taken out to account for the losses in matchday revenue. If we couldn't spend amounts in that region, we wouldn't have wasted our time with Sancho at all
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Pretty sure our cash in account went down from 300m GBP something to 90m GBP or so. We had to pay a lot right before end of June, if I recall correctly.
 
@do.ob Do you think there's a possibility BVB sell Sancho if United stump up the €120m or do you think Sancho stays at your club for another season no matter what?
 
If it's a done dealio kept hush due to other signings, it'll likely be announced at the weekend so he can join us from when we start training again, potentially after national break if Nations League will still happen.

If negotiations are still on it's likely to be end of September maybe even into October.

As much as we'd want to think differently, Sancho wouldn't really care too much about the league start since it involves at least his next 3 years (before a new contract). Our first big opponent isn't until Tottenham on Oct 3rd. Even Sancho must think we should be able to handle the opposition before then without him, that it wouldn't adversely affect the season as a whole if negotiations are ongoing.

If his crew believes he can get a better deal by holding out to closer to the end of the window without United walking away, then they have little incentive to agree earlier, with the excuse of the transfer window being weirdly positioned due to covid so it's "not really his fault".

Every day is Sancho day, but he's not coming just yet. But he will, I'm certain.
 
DarkDog said:
You are feeding to the Glazer narrative, largest club in the world doesn’t have money, BVB is unreasonable, Sancho wants high wages. Watzke and Zorc understood that Ed was full of it when he made the 60 mil offer. reminds me when we offered 27 mil for fellaini and baines combined. we are a club run by monkeys, stop making excuses for Glazers mate. We can’t afford Sancho because Glazers’ other businesses are failing because of the pandemic and they need money from our club to bail them out, again.
today most newspapers are writing that we have given up on Sancho, this was the last nail in the coffin, our officials admitting that deal is over. now 27 mil for Costa , what is worse deal than 108 mil for Sancho. we will just help out barca and juve with their deadwood problem
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One Newspaper (The Mirror) has written that we are prepared to walk away unless all parties agree to more realistic figures. Read the article - not the headline. It’s actually a nothing article.

As for the other papers - they are reporting what The Mirror have said. So, it’s one paper and not most.
 
Just a hunch and as that implies I have no evidence and nothing to base this on, but I think you’ll get him.

The club must realise by now they’re not going to get him for any less than 120M euros, so they are waiting to see what they can raise from player sales. Once you start selling a couple of players, I imagine this transfer will pass ck up momentum again.
 
I can't believe I was giddy and excited enough to think this would get done early August :lol: still have an unwavering confidence that we get it done eventually it seems just obvious, I would like to see us be moving players on pretty sharpish though as seemingly it'll help with the rest of the window. There's no need to leave EVERYTHING to the end of september.
 
Adnan said:
@do.ob Do you think there's a possibility BVB sell Sancho if United stump up the €120m or do you think Sancho stays at your club for another season no matter what?
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Well let me answer it this way: I don't think you talk the way that Dortmund's executives have talked since the deadline if you think that he's leaving. The public would have been understanding if they played it like Völler does with Havertz, trying to project some control/power by saying they are willing to sell, but only on their terms. However in this case all the things Watzke and Zorc have said since D-Day would blow up in their face if they sold him now.
Never say never in football, but unless Sancho goes completely off the rails I expect him to stay now.
 
Put this in the Pogba and Veron category of tiresome transfer sagas. I used to love the old style, out of the blue, transfers. One that sticks in my mind was Andy Cole. To the outside world we hadn’t registered an interest, weren’t even in the market for a striker. Next thing switch on SSN and there’s Keegan on the steps at St James Park trying to explain why Cole is now a Manchester United player.

So much more exciting than all the drip feed information and agonisingly prolonged negotiations of today. Even when Sancho does eventually put pen to paper it will be more ‘At last, thank god for that’ rather than the ‘wow we’ve signed Sancho’ that it should be.
 
Another I miss the old days of transfers posts :lol: they'll feel a lot more out of the blue if you stay out of the transfer forum, and don't go on social media! Everyones in control of these deals feeling less dragged out, its so funny.
 
dogwithabone said:
Put this in the Pogba and Veron category of tiresome transfer sagas. I used to love the old style, out of the blue, transfers. One that sticks in my mind was Andy Cole. To the outside world we hadn’t registered an interest, weren’t even in the market for a striker. Next thing switch on SSN and there’s Keegan on the steps at St James Park trying to explain why Cole is now a Manchester United player.

So much more exciting than all the drip feed information and agonisingly prolonged negotiations of today. Even when Sancho does eventually put pen to paper it will be more ‘At last, thank god for that’ rather than the ‘wow we’ve signed Sancho’ that it should be.
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But you are here in this forum, on this thread, discussing "news" drip fed from journos and ITK's.

Which explains why it's now done this way. If nobody reacted to it they would still be doing it like in the old days.
 
Judas said:
Another I miss the old days of transfers posts :lol: they'll feel a lot more out of the blue if you stay out of the transfer forum, and don't go on social media! Everyones in control of these deals feeling less dragged out, its so funny.
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Mad isn’t it, if you want to avoid spoilers then stay out of this thread. :lol:
 
do.ob said:
Well let me answer it this way: I don't think you talk the way that Dortmund's executives have talked since the deadline if you think that he's leaving. The public would have been understanding if they played it like Völler does with Havertz, trying to project some control/power by saying they are willing to sell, but only on their terms. However in this case all the things Watzke and Zorc have said since D-Day would blow up in their face if they sold him now.
Never say never in football, but unless Sancho goes completely off the rails I expect him to stay now.
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Do you find Sancho's quotes odd then? The deadline has passed and the deal hasn't happened. You'd expect "I'm really happy to have my future settled and to spend another year at this great club" etc.

But the quotes were very non committal and absolutely no indication that the matter is closed for this summer.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Mad isn’t it, if you want to avoid spoilers then stay out of this thread. :lol:
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The problem is the social media dominated world and the desire for immediate news.
Does anyone remember the days of Grandstand where there used to be a typed ribbon hammering out news and results? If your team wasn’t on the radio,you’d wait anxiously as the letters appeared followed by the goals scored.
That used to be cutting edge
There’s no going back.
 
elnorte said:
Well if people can invest all their hopes on a random Instagram post from a distant cousin of Sancho who he doesn't even speak to, then I can do the same for a qualified journalist, no matter how low rent he might be.
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Eh? Our entire hopes doesn't rest on that post, and there's pictures of them together so I'd imagine they do speak.
 
Completely surprised at the number of posterS who spring to Teflon Ed’s defence, citing every excuse in the book.

From the other side of the world without the distractions of hourly media clickbait, it seriously comes down to an unprepared and out of touch CEO and staff believing their own hype. If we are one of the biggest clubs in the world with owners backing a move to improve, then what’s the issue. As expected over recent seasons, Incompetence and owners unwilling to support .
 
Tony247 said:
This transfer will have a chance only if Sancho starts throwing tantrums. For now it seems best for united to move on and secure achievable targets who can improve our current squad. There is no way we can survive full season with the squad we have today.
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He will never do that. BD have made him the player he is now, that's why his value has skyrocketted since City. Besides, he signed a contract extension last year despite knowing that United were interested in him (which was why BD offered him an extension). He could have demanded a release clause in exchange for the extension but he didn't.
 
7even said:
@do.ob

According to BD latest information to shareholders the club will first use their credit of €60m until life goes back to normal. Nothing in that information mention anything about taking loans, instead both BD board and CEO Watzke specifically mention that the club has cash and cash equivalents that will secure that the club can stay financially healthy and cover future losses. Also in BD latest Q3 report your board specifically highlight that part of your clubs business plan is to sell valuable players in order to generating cash.

As a old man I’m perfectly aware of that special circumstances creates special solutions. Nothing is set in stone when the whole world is affected by a deadly virus, so anything is possible. But right now there is no indication from the board and your CEO that the club has changed their business model and financial strategy.

The sensible thing for any club who’s profitable is to have at least 20% of annual revenue in cash and cash equivalents. But right now both BD and MU expects annual losses and the forecast for next fiscal year is filled with uncertainty, that’s why I think MU transfer budget is reduced and that BD sooner or later will sell players to balance their books.


The sensible thing for any club who’s profitable is to have at least 20% of annual revenue in cash and cash equivalents. But right now both BD and MU expects annual losses and the forecast for next fiscal year is filled with uncertainty, that’s why I think MU transfer budget is reduced and that BD sooner or later will sell players to balance their books.
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I don't think a credit of €60m will get you very far during this crisis. When Watzke talked about how their liquidity could last a long time he also said something like recently obtained, I think that's a nod to outside capital. He also said that they will only revert to their old business model and get out of the red when stadiums are full again. When he briefly talked about how they they can't just scale back costs so easily he also said that they have to be careful not to lose any competitiveness doing so.
 
POF said:
Do you find Sancho's quotes odd then? The deadline has passed and the deal hasn't happened. You'd expect "I'm really happy to have my future settled and to spend another year at this great club" etc.

But the quotes were very non committal and absolutely no indication that the matter is closed for this summer.
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It's not on him to call it off. Ed probably told Sancho and his agents that they're still working on it. Whether he did it out of honesty or just to have a smokescreen for other negotiations, that we don't know
 
I do so hope that Dortmund hold firm with their ridiculous asking price and we walk away. 100 million plus his exorbitant agents fees is just too daft to contemplate. Will we never learn post Fergie that to pay stupid money for a player is nonsensical. Just look at the times we’ve done it in recent years and which of those purchases have turned out well?
 
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