Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

Status
Not open for further replies.
Adam-Utd said:
Not sure about that as they genuinely want the money. Think they'd snap your arm off for that right now - they know Sancho DOES want to leave eventually and they're managing to keep him happy in the mean time.

He's obviously being respectful to them which is great, but I don't think he will sign a new contract and they'll lose more and more money every year.
Click to expand...

What are we basing the idea that they genuinely want the money off of? The fact that they've sold at a profit before?

I don't want to sell my house but if someone paid me several times what I reckon its worth I'd be open to taking the money. Being willing to sell at a huge markup and wanting to sell are two very different things.

Maybe Dortmund have privately communicated that they want Sancho out? However, that does not seem to be the tone of reports from Germany.

There seems to be an assumption that Dortmund want to sell and, eventually, they'll cave and accept less than their asking price like Leverkussen did for Havertz. Maybe that's the case and they've just got the German press dancing to their tune to create the right mood for a massive fee. However, I've listen to people like Andy Mitten and Fabrizio Romano talk on this and neither of them seemed to think there was a financial hole that selling Sancho fills.

croadyman said:
Yeah surely they would need time in order to get a replacement
Click to expand...

Yeah and the closer we get to deadline day the harder it is to see that happening.

TheNewEra said:
I'm unsure how United aren't paying the money still.

The reality is the following:
  • Dortmund are unlikely to win the league, they'll finish 2nd or 3rd
  • Dortmund with or without Sancho will finish either 2nd of 3rd because of their squad
  • Keeping Sancho would actually increase his value, he will only be worth more as he develops more
  • Dortmund have set a £108M value on Sancho which is a fair valuation considering his age and his output
  • United need Sancho because they lack a RW and have done, especially since Ronaldo leaving in 2009
  • United have missed out on key targets in the past including Eden Hazard (which was obviously a bad moment for the club)
  • United have a free run at Sancho, they have the money and there's no other team competing for him.
  • United have also said that he is the number one priority this summer.
If Sancho doesn't sign for United the board really do need to have a word with themselves.

Looking at 'Bale' as an alternative on Loan is really not the solution long-term.

I'd take Bale on loan and Sancho sure, but any situation where Sancho doesn't sign is disastrous.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go so far as to say any situation where Sancho doesn't sign is disastrous. What if, for example, Mason Greenwood continues his development and has a Salah style season where he scores well over 20 goals from wide right. The rest of what you say sounds reasonable enough though. Sancho, with three years left on his deal, with Dortmund in a decent financial position, is not a player that must absolutely be sold.
 
VanGaalEra said:
Thanks then for blowing our cover :lol:

Click to expand...


GhO7.gif
 
#07 said:
What are we basing the idea that they genuinely want the money off of? The fact that they've sold at a profit before?

I don't want to sell my house but if someone paid me several times what I reckon its worth I'd be open to taking the money. Being willing to sell at a huge markup and wanting to sell are two very different things.

Maybe Dortmund have privately communicated that they want Sancho out? However, that does not seem to be the tone of reports from Germany.

There seems to be an assumption that Dortmund want to sell and, eventually, they'll cave and accept less than their asking price like Leverkussen did for Havertz. Maybe that's the case and they've just got the German press dancing to their tune to create the right mood for a massive fee. However, I've listen to people like Andy Mitten and Fabrizio Romano talk on this and neither of them seemed to think there was a financial hole that selling Sancho fills.
Click to expand...
It's been covered in this thread already, but Dortmund are facing big losses because of the pandemic. Selling Sancho will take them a long way towards addressing those big losses.
 
mazhar13 said:
It's been covered in this thread already, but Dortmund are facing big losses because of the pandemic. Selling Sancho will take them a long way towards addressing those big losses.
Click to expand...

So is that what is giving you confidence we can still get the deal done
 
croadyman said:
So is that what is giving you confidence we can still get the deal done
Click to expand...
Not really. My confidence is based on the fact that we've been in touch with Sancho's agents and agreed personal terms with them. The fact that Dortmund haven't taken us to courts for potentially tapping him up means that they're okay to sell him to us in this transfer window.

The only way my confidence will be shattered is if this personal agreement either turns out to be a hoax or Dortmund take United to court over tapping Sancho up.
 
mazhar13 said:
Not really. My confidence is based on the fact that we've been in touch with Sancho's agents and agreed personal terms with them. The fact that Dortmund haven't taken us to courts for potentially tapping him up means that they're okay to sell him to us in this transfer window.

The only way my confidence will be shattered is if this personal agreement either turns out to be a hoax or Dortmund take United to court over tapping Sancho up.
Click to expand...

Dortmund won't take anyone to court, Uniteds approach was legal.

I have faith in United because they are supposed to be a Rolls Royce of a football club and they have huge market value, so the Glazers need to protect their asset still.

They can still pull money out of the club as any other owner does, but getting it right on the pitch should be the priority
 
TheNewEra said:
Dortmund won't take anyone to court, Uniteds approach was legal.

I have faith in United because they are supposed to be a Rolls Royce of a football club and they have huge market value, so the Glazers need to protect their asset still.

They can still pull money out of the club as any other owner does, but getting it right on the pitch should be the priority
Click to expand...
Exactly, this is impossible. I was just covering all bases to explain my confidence in this supposed deal.

Now if we fail to agree with Dortmund despite agreeing on terms with Sancho, then I struggle to see how we'll be able to go back in for him unless Sancho himself rejects potential advances from every other club.
 
mazhar13 said:
It's been covered in this thread already, but Dortmund are facing big losses because of the pandemic. Selling Sancho will take them a long way towards addressing those big losses.
Click to expand...

I saw the figures but as far as I can tell their losses are no worse than anyone else's. Its not as though Dortmund is suddenly in a financially ruinous position and completely locked out of accessing credit.

Sure selling Sancho at a profit would be nice but Dortmund is not going to collapse if Sancho stays in Germany this season.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Yep. If we were willing to pay €120m for him we’d have done it by now as the price hasn’t changed since day one and isn’t going to either.
Click to expand...

Signing him 2 months later saves the club around £2.4 Million, it also allows advertising and marketing teams to work on the deal in generating revenue.

The club also generates revenue on ads, so every little helps I'm sure.

There are still no 'outs' yet which also is a factor in the signing.
 
Rolaholic said:
Click to expand...


Unless both clubs are hiding something from the public, i’m not sure what is there to even negotiate anymore considering these negotiations have taken place for over a month. It’s been very clear from the selling club that it’s 120M euros and they will release Sancho. What’s left to negotiate? The letterhead font size?
 
SATA said:
Unless both clubs are hiding something from the public, i’m not sure what is there to even negotiate anymore considering these negotiations have taken place for over a month. It’s been very clear from the selling club that it’s 120M euros and they will release Sancho. What’s left to negotiate? The letterhead font size?
Click to expand...

Agreed.
Every year we are all taken for a ride by Ed and company.
 
SATA said:
Unless both clubs are hiding something from the public, i’m not sure what is there to even negotiate anymore considering these negotiations have taken place for over a month. It’s been very clear from the selling club that it’s 120M euros and they will release Sancho. What’s left to negotiate? The letterhead font size?
Click to expand...

How it is to be paid?

Not just the instalments but also how they would prefer the payments, do they want Ed to bring a single briefcase each time with as many Euros as he can carry? Would they prefer Ed to deposit a single Euro a time to Dortmunds finance department taking 120,000,000 transfers?
 
Hopefully this doesnt rile any feathers up but I was looking at videos of Bale yesterday and videos of Sancho.

Literally it was Bale as a kid who was making dribbles around a whole team before scoring, its him as a player who scored wonder goals, free kicks - Sancho at best beats 2 players before drilling in a shot, literally everything else is a tap in, his assists is nothing more than a simple pass or a cross.

The price for him is so so high in comparison to what some of the other players did for that type of money. The extra hype for him is more from the english boy succeeding in a foreign league aspect in my opinion than anything exceptional relative to football.

I want him because he looks a versatile english kid that can grow - but I'm not sure sure about his ability where people think he is this 120 million type player ready to handle the weight of such a transfer either.
 
TheNewEra said:
I'm unsure how United aren't paying the money still.

The reality is the following:
  • Dortmund are unlikely to win the league, they'll finish 2nd or 3rd
  • Dortmund with or without Sancho will finish either 2nd of 3rd because of their squad
  • Keeping Sancho would actually increase his value, he will only be worth more as he develops more
  • Dortmund have set a £108M value on Sancho which is a fair valuation considering his age and his output
  • United need Sancho because they lack a RW and have done, especially since Ronaldo leaving in 2009
  • United have missed out on key targets in the past including Eden Hazard (which was obviously a bad moment for the club)
  • United have a free run at Sancho, they have the money and there's no other team competing for him.
  • United have also said that he is the number one priority this summer.
If Sancho doesn't sign for United the board really do need to have a word with themselves.

Looking at 'Bale' as an alternative on Loan is really not the solution long-term.

I'd take Bale on loan and Sancho sure, but any situation where Sancho doesn't sign is disastrous.
Click to expand...
One argument I find it hard to accept in this whole saga is that Utd can’t afford to pay for Sancho. I’ll explain why that doesn’t make sense.

Utd was purchased on debt and as soon as Glazers bought the club we were in £700m debt. We are no way near that level of debt now. I believe less than half of that now.

Even if Utd purchased Sancho using a loan, that would still be massively less debt than what we used to be in. The fact that Utd can service those debt levels quite easily and still take out £90m profits in dividends kills the argument that we can’t afford him. Utd owners were never shy in putting us in debt and I hardly think they will be concerned with adding to that debt as long as it gets serviced.
 
SATA said:
Unless both clubs are hiding something from the public, i’m not sure what is there to even negotiate anymore considering these negotiations have taken place for over a month. It’s been very clear from the selling club that it’s 120M euros and they will release Sancho. What’s left to negotiate? The letterhead font size?
Click to expand...
United will want flexibility on installments and addons, and, unsurprisingly, the price. They'll be pushing for a lower price, failing that, a lump sum with installments and add ons.

Dortmund are firm in their stance that they want €120m guaranteed, no addons, regardless of how easily achieved. In turn, United probably know that they want to sell, they might not need too, and will publicly deny wanting to sell, but they'd like too in order to get some revenue in to minimise the loss. United will try all tactics to lower the price- walking away, looking at alternatives etc. Theyre hoping that Dortmund will cave and lower their price or take Uniteds demands of lump/installments/addons.

Its a poker game, who will blink first. Its hard for Sancho, if he kicks up a fuss, acts like a fecktard and makes life difficult, and the move fails to materialise, hes stuck at Dortmund for another season with fans who likely will be majorly annoyed with him and team mates who think he's an arse.

Chances are if he kicked up a fuss, he'd get his move but that thought must be there that he won't? I can see this dragging on till the final few days of the window, where either Dortmund will cave (unlikely) or United will (more likely). The list of alternatives is getting smaller now, so Woody is running out of options.
 
Redplane said:
Im pretty sure United isn't stupid enough to think that works and its more likely its just "journos" making shit up again. We may very well be interested in Bale but not bc we think Dortmund gives a feck.
Click to expand...
Ed Woodward and Matt Judge.

Say no more.
 
christinaa said:
Agreed.
Every year we are all taken for a ride by Ed and company.
Click to expand...

The reality is Ed probably sits there like 'yeah whatever we'll pay' in the initial meeting wipes the crumbs of his pastrami-sandwich off his mouth with his tie and just waits for the last week.

Ed is the kind of guy that at University had 15 minutes to a deadline and started his work, he's worked out everything in his head and he has everything ready. He just works off pure adrenaline, he likes life on the edge.

Last minute, nothing but a blinking cursor on a word document, a cup of coffee and an open-line to his secretary Susan to get Dortmund on the phone.

'Yes Zorc, how much did you say again? 120 Million? Yes I'm sending the word document over now, What do you mean you have a Mac? Ok I'm sending the PDF, no you need to double click."

"Jadon, sorry for the delay, I know it's been 2 months, but I need you to get on the plane and do your Medical, what do you mean you haven't done a covid-test? "
 
#07 said:
I saw the figures but as far as I can tell their losses are no worse than anyone else's. Its not as though Dortmund is suddenly in a financially ruinous position and completely locked out of accessing credit.

Sure selling Sancho at a profit would be nice but Dortmund is not going to collapse if Sancho stays in Germany this season.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they won't collapse, but they will be short on cash. They only had ~19 million Euros in cash as of 31 March 2020 (in contrast, United had ~90 million Pounds). After this, I'd expect Dortmund to have even less cash available to not only spend on the team but also to give to shareholders. Sure, a loan can cover this, but Dortmund want to remain debt-free (they state as much in their financial reports). Free cash flow (i.e. cash from operating activities + investing activities i.e. player transfers) is, therefore, critical for Dortmund (also stated in their financial reports). Selling Sancho will go a long way to giving them a good amount of cash.
 
mazhar13 said:
Yeah, they won't collapse, but they will be short on cash. They only had ~19 million Euros in cash as of 31 March 2020 (in contrast, United had ~90 million Pounds). After this, I'd expect Dortmund to have even less cash available to not only spend on the team but also to give to shareholders. Sure, a loan can cover this, but Dortmund want to remain debt-free (they state as much in their financial reports). Free cash flow (i.e. cash from operating activities + investing activities i.e. player transfers) is, therefore, critical for Dortmund (also stated in their financial reports). Selling Sancho will go a long way to giving them a good amount of cash.
Click to expand...

Judge Bellingham is their new cash-cow, he'll go for £70M one day he looks like an absolute star.

Håland too.

I like Dortmund but they are a little bit like a car showroom, the cars look great and the style of the football they play shows the attacking aspect of players off, which is why so many clubs buy from them.

They do really well to target the right players and get big money, but they'll always be a selling club.

I really respect Dortmund but they are the German equivalent of Tottenham.
 
If this doesn't happen, which is looking increasingly likely, wtf were we doing chasing a player we were uncertain we could pay for?

Further making this club a meme.
 
TheNewEra said:
Judge Bellingham is their new cash-cow, he'll go for £70M one day he looks like an absolute star.

Håland too.

I like Dortmund but they are a little bit like a car showroom, the cars look great and the style of the football they play shows the attacking aspect of players off, which is why so many clubs buy from them.

They do really well to target the right players and get big money, but they'll always be a selling club.

I really respect Dortmund but they are the German equivalent of Tottenham.
Click to expand...
Unless they break through and get more commercial revenue to match those of the big boys, they'll unfortunately be restricted to a selling club status. Bellingham and Haaland will eventually be sold, but I'm not sure if they'll be sold so soon. Haaland perhaps if another club requires a striker (the big teams will want a striker in a couple of years), but Bellingham will take a few more years before he can attract the bigger clubs. For now, though, they haven't had a major sale, and that'll be a concern for them.

Overall, I'm cautiously optimistic about this deal, but if it breaks down, then I'd be really interested in where it failed. We're too far ahead in the game.
 
MattofManchester said:
If this doesn't happen, which is looking increasingly likely, wtf were we doing chasing a player we were uncertain we could pay for?

Further making this club a meme.
Click to expand...

The club has the money, they qualified for Europe kept the Adidas sponsorship money in full, also got the CL difference in pay which is around 40 million more.

It's just they haven't sent the offer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.