If he's producing stats like that with no motivation to train and play then that's not bad to be fair to him.
Jadon Sancho - Chelsea (loan) watch | £5M opt-out fee
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If he's producing stats like that with no motivation to train and play then that's not bad to be fair to him.
On paper this could be true but it's based on a massive benefit of the doubt that he could raise his level and also if it even makes sense for Amorim. He's sidelined Rashford and Casemiro (until injuries forced his hand) already, I don't think he will regard Sancho as 'worth' reintegrating into his team unless he has no other choice. The incentive to sell him/get him off our books would be worth double (or whatever figurative amount) to us in other player additions more closer to Amorim's preference.
I've not watched Sancho much at Chelsea but the impression I get is that he's improved compared to his Utd form (which we all know was a low bar anyways) but most of his ball carrying are still in the same areas i.e between the boxes in open space (i.e little final third penetration) and he's 'helped' by Cucurella who has been bombing on the overlap. Maybe @WeePat can offer some more insight here. I'm sure there are other stats you could look at to really contextualise the comparison but based on the eye test, Amad is dribbling from much deeper areas, in isolation and in a more dysfunctional team. At Chelsea, whilst I hear they are fairly sterile and more possession fanatical under Maresca, Sancho has plenty of tactical help to reduce his ball carrying risk and more off the ball movement. Amad has had mostly Mazraoui behind him and/or playing behind Garnacho; both players who aren't really creating space off the ball.
It makes sense to think 'a motivated' Sancho could 'excel' in those 5-15 yards of space in between the lines with movement around him but when was the last time he played in a team like that and has shown the physical intensity to thrive there consistently? 4+ years ago at Dortmund. Stranger things have happened but it's all too little, too late to bet on that again because he would have to show never seen before transformative levels of self motivation AND the total backing/love of his manager to make it work. Just not worth it.
His time here is done one way or another. Would be surprised if Chelsea doesnt buy him despite reports. Not that I think he’s good just don’t believe wed allow it.
Maybe.. if the fraction is close to 1.
Chelsea will save on the wages..
Lets see.. I dont think it'll be a significantly smaller fee. We'll just have to go through the process of finding a club stupid enough to take this clown again..
We tried.
On what basis? Of course it'd be significantly cheaper to loan a player for a year than to buy him outright. Any penalty would just be a retrospective one year loan fee - likely just the total wages you paid him over the season.
To play as a traditional winger which United play as, he struggles because he does not have the pace and directness as someone like a young Rashford who succeeded in his early days. He doesn’t look like a traditional winger, he looks like an attacking mid playing out on the wing.
Sancho for me is like a jigsaw who fits into puzzle where his style of play suits quick passes interchanging. His foundation is solid, both Sancho and United were bad matches for each other.
He doesn’t have the mentality to knuckle down, he rather spit his dummy out. It’s a shame because he looked like a solid player before.
i dont think he will have a good career in big clubs anymore, his attitude is probably whats worst in him, was criticized by pep, came late in training, had issue with ten hag, unnecessary freedom comment on instagram
spent my time to watch him at chelsea and he looks more like a futsal player to me, had several good moments but his overall display has been poor
i believe that he has passed his peak now and his career will end up closer to what had happened to the likes of michu/luiz adriano/delle ali, he will probably come good in smaller leagues but no way he will work in more intense league like PL
I am not sure. In commercial contracts, many times, the penalty to break contracts is the same as the value of the contract.
It would be quite stupid for Utd to have agreed anything substantially less. The INEOS people are much more competent at money related things vs Glazers.
Sancho statistically looked good on these metrics + chances created even for part of his tenure at Utd. The issues is that it doesn't really translate into G+A or good performances.
Someone will need to do a deep dive analysis but he must be creating low quality chances or not really progressive in the areas where we need him to.
The eye test is not validating the stats in this case.
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being a professional athlete at the top of your sport is very difficult, requires a lot of sacrifice and can easily become really stressful. When you are a kid that's trying to make it, you have a lot of hunger, those sacrifices seem irrelevant, you are laser focused on your career. Once you've made it though, things change. You made it, you're getting *Paid*, suddenly all the things you sacrificed to get to this level, well, no need to keep that up yeah?
Plenty of examples unfortunately.
What was the alternative? Keeping him?
I mean, yes to all that, but he was always that player. It's United's own fault for signing a David Silva type of player and then ask him to play like Rashford. There's even reports about this
really goes to show what an absolute clown show you were back then
He could be Maradona, Pele, Messi and Ronaldo all wrapped in 1 but we should still give him the boot. We can't have players disrespecting the club like he did and then still be at the club. That's how standards are kept and without standards we aren't going to win jack shit
Also note that Sancho hasn't been a decent player for a long time. He tanked with United, he did meah at Dortmund and he tanked at Chelsea as well.
being a professional athlete at the top of your sport is very difficult, requires a lot of sacrifice and can easily become really stressful. When you are a kid that's trying to make it, you have a lot of hunger, those sacrifices seem irrelevant, you are laser focused on your career. Once you've made it though, things change. You made it, you're getting *Paid*, suddenly all the things you sacrificed to get to this level, well, no need to keep that up yeah?
Plenty of examples unfortunately.
What was the alternative? Keeping him?
I mean, yes to all that, but he was always that player. It's United's own fault for signing a David Silva type of player and then ask him to play like Rashford. There's even reports about this
really goes to show what an absolute clown show you were back then
Obligation the buy is Obligation to buy. I've yet to see anyone managing to wriggle past that. There again Manchester United's negotiation skills are 'legendary'
You just can’t have someone around in the dressing room after what Sancho’s done. Imagine what kind of message it sends to the rest of the players. There is NO way back for him. He’s never playing for United again.
Also, just think about what Chelsea want to do. They’re reportedly willing to pay us millions of pounds for him to NOT play for them. Ridiculous.
This is the sort of attitude why standards slipped throughout the years. There was always seems to be a reason to justify why players are not performing which in turn gave us an opportunity to give a player a 2nd-3rd-4th chance based on the slightest excuse on why we should do so. We are Manchester United, ie one of the biggest clubs in the world. We should ask ourselves if the likes of Shaw, Rashford, Lingard, Martial and Sancho would have survived for so long at Real Madrid.
Again, what was the alternative? It was either he goes to Chelsea or he stays. Chelsea had all the negotiating leverage
If it wasn't an obligatory clause. Surely that has some value. Why would Chelsea pay almost the same amount to NOT have a player? Probably not have him tied to them with a long contract. The contract would've been agreed beforehand and knowing how Chelsea operate could be anywhere between 5-7 years.
Most unlikeable player for a long while.
I can think of a few:
- Don't have to pay his salary, which would most probably put him as one of the highest earner at the club.
- Don't have to keep a player that the manager does not want
- They will need to start looking for buyers if they don't want him to begin with. They take the risk of Sancho running down his contract, and costing the club more with affects their PSR
- Having a player on big salary but not wanted by the manager is not exactly going to work wonders for team morale
If he returns to United by some clause written into the deal, he should be made to train on his own. Ideally, in Siberia.
Right now, everything is pie in the sky. No one except the insiders has all the details really and everyone's speculating on hypothetical situation. It's "my belief" vs "your belief".
It was just wrongly reported. In this case, it was agreed (by Chelsea initiative) that they can get out of it by paying a significant penalty fee. If no other club was interested in him, what were United options here? Am still happy we managed to find a club that agreed to pay most of his wages this season and in the worst case scenario get some amount of money going into last year of his contract. You take that deal in our situation as it is still best possible deal to have.
Just 5 years ago Dortmund asking price for him was more than 100 million. Now, Chelsea is thinking about paying not to take him when they can have the player for only 25 million. It says everything about the Sancho unfortunately.
Everyone is assuming that the obligatory part of the deal is iron-clad just because that's what was (incorrectly) reported first. This clause was always part of the deal and Sancho's performances have no bearing on it.
As loony as Chelsea act in the transfer market it doesn't make any sense that they'd accept a deal where a plausible outcome is paying effectively a ~30m loan fee for a single season of Sancho. The penalty will almost certainly be reimbursing you for his subsidised wages.
Spent 2 summers begging for him to join and the same amount wanting him out.
I think this is a much more balanced take. Personally, I'd take Sancho over a traditional winger any day. Currently, the strongest systems in my opinion play two attacking mids behind a striker with wing backs providing the width and runs inbehind like traditional wingers once did.
And I mean, the EPL has been fully dominated by a side that didn't play traditional wingers for the better part of the last decade.
The guy was better for us than on his loans despite the desperate attempts to make it look otherwise.
Rashford - Same. Guys last goal was 3 December.
Rashford - Same. Guys last goal was 3 December.
I tend to disagree and think it will be more substantial (albeit not 30m). Anyways, we are all guessing and it will become clear in the summer when you send him back to us or if it leaks.
You're just describing a loan with an option to buy, why didn't they just call it that?
Anyway, nobody in here actually knows what's really going on, we just have to wait and see.
Maybe we've finally found a use for him. Loan him out on these terms to silly clubs and get them to pay us to take him back.
We accepted a lesser fee so that it would be an obligation to buy rather then a right to buy. That obligation to buy clause made him unattractive to most clubs who weren't ready to commit on a player of such high wage who seem to have attitude issues. We sent him to Chelsea despite knowing that he's not suited for the EPL game and that Chelsea will milk this to make use to look bad.It also gave Sancho a false sense of security which lead to him insulting us on twitter with the famous Freedom tweet and which in turn confirmed that he's got bad attitude.
Now Sancho will return after confirming to everyone that his horrorfest at United wasn't just a blip but the norm. Meanwhile we've been made look like fools and no sane club would want to be anywhere near to him. Any significant penalty fee will vanish on his salary (10m a year).
We gave contract extensions to crocks and failed managers, we hired and then immediately sacked a Sporting director, we spent 80m on a player whom everyone within the club agreed is 30m at max and we are now loaning players on an obligation to buy clause but with clauses that annul that. Why do we need further evidence to admit that this club is run by idiots?
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We spent 2 summers begging for him to join only to be told, once signed, that actually he wants to play LW and he hates playing RW. The trouble is that we had Rashford as LW and we were desperately in need for a RW. Now we managed to turn an obligation to buy in a right to buy and that despite lowering the fee for such concession
That's United post Ferguson in a nutshell. In comparision they make Ted Lasso look like prime Sir Matt
Exactly, he has a year left of on his contract, we don’t want him back and I’m sure he doesn’t want to come back either. It’s extremely unlikely he comes back and thrives, irrespective of the system we are playing. Need to show we have standards and make sure he is gone in be way or another this summer.
The difference is that in a traditional "loan with an option to buy", the loan fee (If there is one) is payable regardless of whether of not the sale goes through.
In this case, the loan fee is only payable if Chelsea don't buy him.
Most reports had us paying 2/3 of his wage, so that should be 10m per year. If the penalty were similar to the purchase fee as has been mooted here, that's effectively 30m for one loan year, which is ludicrously high. I know our transfer policy has been mad, but this is simply not a deal even we'd be stupid enough to agree to.
Here's the way to think about it: United were effectively making a 5m wager last summer in order to make a potential return of a 25m fee plus 10m in saved wages from 24/25.
Whoops, he's a bust, now you get the 5m wager back plus whatever you can get for flogging him on - so 15m in saved wages plus (being realistic) a 10-15m transfer fee? This is the worst-case scenario for United and it's easy to see why this was still appealing last summer.
Have Sancho suspended in a shark cage above the pitch
Read the post I responded to, I have no idea what the penalty will be
Agree a proper obligation, this sounds like an option to buy and not an obligation.
If its true then Chelsea won the negotiations here
I like this. Would be like when Eddie and Rey fought at Summerslam for custody of Dom.
That's what I was thinking of. Dom went on to have Rhea Ripley and Liv Morgan fight for him.
I'm not jealous