Jadon Sancho - Chelsea (loan) watch

Don't think he ever demanded a public apology? Could be wrong as the whole saga was so tiresome but can't remember Ten Hag ever saying that.

Benni McCarthy said something along the lines of Sancho not wanting to apologise because it would make him look bad publicly.

People took that to mean Ten Hag wanted a public apology.

It didn’t necessarily mean that, but even if it did, the decision to make the entire affair public was made by Sancho and Sancho alone.

Some people are acting as though he was a 16 year old kid and not a full blown international on 300k a week and the ego of a world class footballer. You don’t get to demand the big bucks and all the acclaim of being a superstar, but then hide behind being young and mistreated when a coach who has done a lot for you finally loses patience at your poor application and effort.
 
Entitled, petulant P.O.S. Feck him. Hope we've turned the corner on tolerating his kind of behavior at the club but sadly I doubt we are. Beans, beans, beans. He can join Jesse in Korea as far as I'm concerned.
 
How was his contribution “far small” than it seemed at the time?

The guy came in to an Ajax side that hadn’t won the league and hadn’t been past the CL group stage in 4 or 5 years, won the league 4 years on the bounce and got within a whisker of a CL final. Since he left, they finished 3rd and 5th in the league and again failed to get past the CL group stage. All that despite us handing them a small fortune in transfer fees with which to improve their squad while he was with us.

Whats your argument for his contribution being smaller than it seemed?

Because in hindsight, it becomes clear that Ten Hag was not the convinced possession-oriented coach with a clear handwriting that he seemed to be at the time but an opportunistic coach who only set up his team like this since it was the club's identity. When he joined United, he decided to implement something completely different. And although that caught many surprise (including me, I thought he'd be a great coach for United), it was actually foreseeable because he played a completely different style of football at Utrecht and Bayern II as well. In this context, you have to question how much of that Ajax collective was actually of his making. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club after his time in Manchester.


God this is tedious.

I don’t liken achievement to intelligence. I don’t think he’s stupid because he’s crap.

I think he’s stupid because he was playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world on astronomical wages and he couldn’t maintain the professionalism needed to fulfil the bare minimum required for his position.

I think he’s stupid because he couldn’t get out of his own way and admit he was in the wrong. Because he went on social media to call out his boss and then doubled down on it.

You can give me all the studies and pedantry and witty internet circle-jerk theorems you like, but the lad is as thick as mince and so is anybody who feels a desperate need to defend him.
You contradict yourself again. Very intelligent people fail to fulfill their potential every day because they lack self-discipline and struggle with boring everyday tasks like doing house work and going to bed early. And it is typical very intelligent people to have problems with authorities. Again: I'm not saying that Sancho is very intelligent, I'm just saying that your claim that he is not has no basis whatsoever. For what we know he could be gifted and still feck his career up. It would actually even be a very good explanation for what comes across as stupidly throwing away his potential.

And the quote "you can give me all the studies you like" actually summarizes my problem perfectly. You value your gut feeling over facts and that's stupid. You're objectively wrong, should admit it and move on but you seem to care so much about the opinions of some internet nerds on here that you can't bring yourself to it.
 
Because in hindsight, it becomes clear that Ten Hag was not the convinced possession-oriented coach with a clear handwriting that he seemed to be at the time but an opportunistic coach who only set up his team like this since it was the club's identity. When he joined United, he decided to implement something completely different. And although that caught many surprise (including me, I thought he'd be a great coach for United), it was actually foreseeable because he played a completely different style of football at Utrecht and Bayern II as well. In this context, you have to question how much of that Ajax collective was actually of his making. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club after his time in Manchester.

And you think this waffle legisitimises the argument that he invented a public agenda against Jadon Sancho because he was incapable of judging performance on the training ground?

You contradict yourself again. Very intelligent people fail to fulfill their potential every day because they lack self-discipline and struggle with boring everyday tasks like doing house work and going to bed early. And it is typical very intelligent people to have problems with authorities. Again: I'm not saying that Sancho is very intelligent, I'm just saying that your claim that he is not has no basis whatsoever. For what we know he could be gifted and still feck his career up. It would actually even be a very good explanation for what comes across as stupidly throwing away his potential.

And the quote "you can give me all the studies you like" actually summarizes my problem perfectly. You value your gut feeling over facts and that's stupid. You're objectively wrong, should admit it and move on but you seem to care so much about the opinions of some internet nerds on here that you can't bring yourself to it.

I don’t value my gut feeling over facts at all. I just don’t cherry pick studies and “facts” to suit my arguments like you do.

It’s also really tedious having these argument by number discussions with internet pedants who read a few Wikipedia pages and misinterpret the ideas. I’m all for pedantry, but if you’re going to go down that road you need to make sure you’ve covered all your bases.

The same studies you are brandishing about with such confidence - those that correlate higher IQ to later sleeping patterns, also explain that such findings are often explained by later or more comprehensive working patterns. Jadon Sancho playing Fortnite and FIFA until 3am is not the same thing as a scientist saying in the lab til 3am. There is no research that suggests a biological rather than social link between IQ and sleeping patterns.

You’ve also gone all in on IQ as the only barometer of intelligence. Emotional intelligence is every bit as important but you’ve dismissed it completely in your desperation to be right on the internet and to defend the honour of your Bundesliga in the face of some perceived slight ye have been harbouring for years.

Sancho might well be some unearthed genius with an unrealised IQ to match Einstein for all I know, but his lack of maturity for his age and his woeful levels of EI still leaves him sorely lacking in intelligence and as I have said all along, as thick as mince as it pertains to his chosen field.

As for your interpretation of the Dunning Kruger effect, I’ll be gracious and allow you to revisit that in your own time.
 
Im not that impressed with what i have seen of him at Chelsea so far. He always seems to be on the periphery of things, rather than being one of the Chelsea players that are really making things happen.
 
Im not that impressed with what i have seen of him at Chelsea so far. He always seems to be on the periphery of things, rather than being one of the Chelsea players that are really making things happen.
If he is impressing Enzo Maresca then he is doing something right.
 
Yes they were. Both were left out of the squad yesterday and in the press conference, the manager said it was a selection call based on what he had seen in training and in all aspects of preparation during the week.

Go back and read what Ten Hag said when asked about why he had dropped Sancho. If you look at the actual words said and not all the nonsense written by people who wanted to defend Sancho or slate Ten Hag afterwards, the two situations are almost identical.
My bad. I absolutely missed that.
 
Is he impressing Maresca? Or is he just better than other options?

We will see if Chelsea choose to sign him at the end of the season.
He has praised him effusively numerous times. And it’s not like we’re short on attacking options. Felix, Nkunku, Neto, and even Mudryk could all step into that area if Sancho wasn’t getting it done.

Did pretty well again yesterday and really should’ve scored and killed the game at the time. He’s clearly still not at full confidence yet.
 
Is he impressing Maresca? Or is he just better than other options?

We will see if Chelsea choose to sign him at the end of the season.
I believe they are obliged to sign him if they finish higher than 15th.
Maresca has lots of options at Chelsea but chooses him & openly praises him..Enzo is his own person & doesn't do anything he doesn't want to.
 
I believe they are obliged to sign him if they finish higher than 15th.
Maresca has lots of options at Chelsea but chooses him & openly praises him..Enzo is his own person & doesn't do anything he doesn't want to.

Im pretty sure after he's played something like 15 games or so it triggers the buy clause.

He's Chelseas problem now. Adios
 
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He has praised him effusively numerous times. And it’s not like we’re short on attacking options. Felix, Nkunku, Neto, and even Mudryk could all step into that area if Sancho wasn’t getting it done.

Did pretty well again yesterday and really should’ve scored and killed the game at the time. He’s clearly still not at full confidence yet.
He’s clearly doing better, good for him.

However I think you’ll soon realise the missed chances aren’t down to confidence..
 
There are 3 reasons why Sancho didn't work out for us
1) he's simply playing in a much tougher league where every full back is basically a proper athlete
2) he has a weak mentality and dedication, showed complete contempt to the football club (imagine if Rashford and Garnacho tweeted Amorim is a liar yesterday)
3) the sort of transition football on a big pitch that we played didn't suit him.

Definitely playing in a more slick Chelsea team helps on #3. He might have looked marginally better as a 10 in Maresca. But I'm also sure as soon as the "I want to prove people wrong" motivation wears off he will also be the same player we saw here.
 
If Chelsea finish above 15th then he's signed for 20 to 25 mil. It's a done deal.

No choice about it. He's a Chelsea player now

I believe they are obliged to sign him if they finish higher than 15th.
Maresca has lots of options at Chelsea but chooses him & openly praises him..Enzo is his own person & doesn't do anything he doesn't want to.

Ah. I didn’t know that.

@jeff gurr Is he playing well though? Just my opinion but when I have seen him he’s far less involved in play than others like Madueke.
 
Im pretty sure after he's played something like 15 games or so it triggers the buy clause.

He's Chelseas problem now. Adios
Yes .. Games played makes sense ..
Once it went bad with Sancho & ETH there was never was never going to be any way back.
So far Maresca has received positive endorsements from both Leicester & Chelsea players & obviously they like to play for him.
ETH just seems to piss people off.
 
But I'm also sure as soon as the "I want to prove people wrong" motivation wears off he will also be the same player we saw here.

Bingo.

He's motivated to "prove the doubters wrong" and Maresca knows he'll look good if he gets a tune out of a player who Ten Hag and Manchester United couldn't. He'll look past things this season he knows deep down aren't quite right, because Sancho is showing enough energy and application to prove the point he thinks he's proving. Then they'll sign a permanent deal next season and eventually Sancho will betray the faith shown in him and let him down. Leopards very rarely change their spots and Jadon Sancho isn't going to be the one that bucks the trend.
 
But I'm also sure as soon as the "I want to prove people wrong" motivation wears off he will also be the same player we saw here.
And why wouldn't he be motivated to get back into the England team or to win trophies with Chelsea and his NT? This thread is as silly as the Jude thread on Bluemoon, just senseless diatribes spewed at young players trying to sort their careers out. I've watched Chelsea recently and Sancho's linkup play with Palmer stands him in good stead to return to the England setup under Tuchel. It should be his main priority to develop good chemistry and understanding with Palmer because that's the easiest route back to the NT. Chelsea have a 40 man squad so his starting position isn't guaranteed with Mudryk and Felix around, that itself should be motivation for him.

Sancho's main weakness is that he never had pace and was washed up in terms of being a winger who beats his man once he left Dortmund and went to the more physical PL. He has never been an explosive dribbler and he has to evolve his playstyle away from the winger position to eventually become a playmaker (too bad the traditional CAM #10 position is slowly being phased out) as he does have a lot of creative ability to play throughballs and deliberate short passes in crowded boxes. Few other English players have that ability and it is why Maresca is using him. As long as he offers that he'll be a useful addition to the England squad since he offers a different, more South American-style approach to attacking the flank.
 
And why wouldn't he be motivated to get back into the England team or to win trophies with Chelsea and his NT? This thread is as silly as the Jude thread on Bluemoon, just senseless diatribes spewed at young players trying to sort their careers out. I've watched Chelsea recently and Sancho's linkup play with Palmer stands him in good stead to return to the England setup under Tuchel. It should be his main priority to develop good chemistry and understanding with Palmer because that's the easiest route back to the NT. Chelsea have a 40 man squad so his starting position isn't guaranteed with Mudryk and Felix around, that itself should be motivation for him.

Sancho's main weakness is that he never had pace and was washed up in terms of being a winger who beats his man once he left Dortmund and went to the more physical PL. He has never been an explosive dribbler and he has to evolve his playstyle away from the winger position to eventually become a playmaker (too bad the traditional CAM #10 position is slowly being phased out) as he does have a lot of creative ability to play throughballs and deliberate short passes in crowded boxes. Few other English players have that ability and it is why Maresca is using him. As long as he offers that he'll be a useful addition to the England squad since he offers a different, more South American-style approach to attacking the flank.

It's not diatribe. It's well documented his issues with timekeeping etc at Dortmund. Then at Utd he was literally given time off by Ten Hag to get physically and mentally fit. Then the next season he wasn't fussed at all about training with the youth team over a ridiculous twitter post, in fact he seemed to enjoy the time to play PlayStation early in the morning.
 
Ah. I didn’t know that.

@jeff gurr Is he playing well though? Just my opinion but when I have seen him he’s far less involved in play than others like Madueke.
I've watched a few games & I think he is playing quite well. Definitely involved in the attacking play, maybe not as defensively responsible as he could be .He certainly seems to fit into the Maresca system.
 
There are 3 reasons why Sancho didn't work out for us
1) he's simply playing in a much tougher league where every full back is basically a proper athlete
2) he has a weak mentality and dedication, showed complete contempt to the football club (imagine if Rashford and Garnacho tweeted Amorim is a liar yesterday)
3) the sort of transition football on a big pitch that we played didn't suit him.

Definitely playing in a more slick Chelsea team helps on #3. He might have looked marginally better as a 10 in Maresca. But I'm also sure as soon as the "I want to prove people wrong" motivation wears off he will also be the same player we saw here.
I reckon he'd absolutely smash it as a left 10. This system would suit him.

Such a shame.
 
Thought he was ok yesterday but there were 2 occasions where he dwelled on the ball and he was intercepted quickly which both led to chances. He's just a bit slow/lightweight to be a top player. He's definitely playing better now and is neat and tidy. Chelsea are very well set up which does help.
 
And you think this waffle legisitimises the argument that he invented a public agenda against Jadon Sancho because he was incapable of judging performance on the training ground?



I don’t value my gut feeling over facts at all. I just don’t cherry pick studies and “facts” to suit my arguments like you do.

It’s also really tedious having these argument by number discussions with internet pedants who read a few Wikipedia pages and misinterpret the ideas. I’m all for pedantry, but if you’re going to go down that road you need to make sure you’ve covered all your bases.

The same studies you are brandishing about with such confidence - those that correlate higher IQ to later sleeping patterns, also explain that such findings are often explained by later or more comprehensive working patterns. Jadon Sancho playing Fortnite and FIFA until 3am is not the same thing as a scientist saying in the lab til 3am. There is no research that suggests a biological rather than social link between IQ and sleeping patterns.

You’ve also gone all in on IQ as the only barometer of intelligence. Emotional intelligence is every bit as important but you’ve dismissed it completely in your desperation to be right on the internet and to defend the honour of your Bundesliga in the face of some perceived slight ye have been harbouring for years.

Sancho might well be some unearthed genius with an unrealised IQ to match Einstein for all I know, but his lack of maturity for his age and his woeful levels of EI still leaves him sorely lacking in intelligence and as I have said all along, as thick as mince as it pertains to his chosen field.

As for your interpretation of the Dunning Kruger effect, I’ll be gracious and allow you to revisit that in your own time.

You're either referencing the wrong study or quoting it wrongly. The scientists assumed that a higher intellect leads to late sleeping patterns as a result of questioning societal norms and driving progress. The study even found that late sleepers performed worse in school - which means the habit of going to bed late predates job performances and thus can't be the cause of it. But even if you would be correct, what's the point in this? Do you seriously believe that a lack of intellect is the only possible explanation for why Sancho (allegedly by the way) had a habit of bed time procrastination while playing for Manchester United? Just admit you said something stupid in the heat of the moment and move on, happens to all of us.

For somebody who doesn't give a shit about the opinion of internet pendants you go out your way to "save face" in front of said internet pendants immensely, by the way.
 
You're either referencing the wrong study or quoting it wrongly. The scientists assumed that a higher intellect leads to late sleeping patterns as a result of questioning societal norms and driving progress. The study even found that late sleepers performed worse in school - which means the habit of going to bed late predates job performances and thus can't be the cause of it. But even if you would be correct, what's the point in this? Do you seriously believe that a lack of intellect is the only possible explanation for why Sancho (allegedly by the way) had a habit of bed time procrastination while playing for Manchester United? Just admit you said something stupid in the heat of the moment and move on, happens to all of us.

For somebody who doesn't give a shit about the opinion of internet pendants you go out your way to "save face" in front of said internet pendants immensely, by the way.

Christ you’re back.

Find a place where I’ve suggested intellect is the only reason for anything?

Read back through my posts, read back through your precious studies until you understand them. When you’ve demonstrated some basic comprehension of written words I’ll engage with you again. Until that happens I’m done - You can have your last word and toddle off thinking you’re clever.
 
Find a place where I’ve suggested intellect is the only reason for anything?

I decided to ignore the insecure rants, hope you don't mind ;) As for your request, no problem:


On which basis are you judging his intellect and that of his peers?

On the basis of him being a professional footballer with the world at his feet, but prioritising staying up all night on his PlayStation rather than being fresh for training.
 
Im not that impressed with what i have seen of him at Chelsea so far. He always seems to be on the periphery of things, rather than being one of the Chelsea players that are really making things happen.
He's been absolute shite. I've literally only seen Chelsea fans pretend otherwise. Can't wait until he's fully their player.
 
25 mill is a bargain regardless, he doesn't need to be a standout performer...... Just a performer

Chelsea got a good deal, we did not..... Nothing more to it
 
You're either referencing the wrong study or quoting it wrongly. The scientists assumed that a higher intellect leads to late sleeping patterns as a result of questioning societal norms and driving progress. The study even found that late sleepers performed worse in school - which means the habit of going to bed late predates job performances and thus can't be the cause of it. But even if you would be correct, what's the point in this? Do you seriously believe that a lack of intellect is the only possible explanation for why Sancho (allegedly by the way) had a habit of bed time procrastination while playing for Manchester United? Just admit you said something stupid in the heat of the moment and move on, happens to all of us.

For somebody who doesn't give a shit about the opinion of internet pendants you go out your way to "save face" in front of said internet pendants immensely, by the way.
I can unfortunately attest to how debilitating sleep problems can be. Has a huge effect on my life and work.

On the other hand I am extremely intelligent, which makes it even more of a tragedy, I suppose.

Lack of sleep can really feck with your work and your career. I also assume footballers cannot resort to the same strong meds that we can, or maybe they’re allowed these?
 
I reckon he'd absolutely smash it as a left 10. This system would suit him.

Such a shame.
In theory perhaps but I can't see him having the tenacity to play in Amorim's system - not to mention his petulant reaction to being (fairly) challenged by the previous manager.

He would never make it here.
 
In theory perhaps but I can't see him having the tenacity to play in Amorim's system - not to mention his petulant reaction to being (fairly) challenged by the previous manager.

He would never make it here.

He has more competition at Chelsea than he had here and hes doing well. They are also doing well with him playing

His form was the main problem here and having had a fresh start at Chelsea he's fixed that, albeit for a small amount of games so far
 
I can unfortunately attest to how debilitating sleep problems can be. Has a huge effect on my life and work.

On the other hand I am extremely intelligent, which makes it even more of a tragedy, I suppose.

Lack of sleep can really feck with your work and your career. I also assume footballers cannot resort to the same strong meds that we can, or maybe they’re allowed these?
I think meds that help you sleep are not a problem, as those rather weaken your performance than improve it. Meds that make you perform regardless are a problem.
 
The irony is Sancho would have been really good in the left 10 behind the striker, much better fit than Rashford as he has more to his all round game
I'm still unsure about that.

Personally, Sancho and United were just a bad fit. I don't think he liked his time here fullstop, irrespective of the teams set up.
 
Excellent news. I hope he impresses the Chelsea manager to the degree that they take him off our hands. God knows we need retribution for Mount and Mata.
 
Manchester United was too big for him, he obviously performs better at smaller clubs with less pressure like Dortmund and Chelsea. Amorim likes players with intensity so even if he was still here, I can’t see Amorim wanting too keep him.
 
I think it works in our favour to have Sancho be seen to be doing well at Chelsea as it creates a narrative that under-performing players at United are not broken and can flourish elsewhere. Sancho could be enough empirical evidence for potential suitors that Rashford is worth the outlay as he just needs a fresh start and can be "fixed".

Who cares if any of it's true.