The real issue is the wage. Certainly there are clubs who would take a punt for 20-30m but the question is if we’re willing to supplement his wages to get him out. Otherwise he would be mad to leave and I don’t see him as someone who wants to move to Saudi or something.
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The real issue is the wage. Certainly there are clubs who would take a punt for 20-30m but the question is if we’re willing to supplement his wages to get him out. Otherwise he would be mad to leave and I don’t see him as someone who wants to move to Saudi or something.
Fontaine
Kopa
Platini
Papin
Zidane
Henry
Benzema
Mbappe (so far)
Is Pogba's career better or similar than any of those?
Kopa
Platini
Papin
Zidane
Henry
Benzema
Mbappe (so far)
Is Pogba's career better or similar than any of those?
By you. I’ve never seen anybody else refer to these Particular players along those lines.
Personally I think all of these players had individual careers, individual high points and individual issues. I can’t think why you’d put them all in the same group. Very very strange.
Pogbas issues were the transfer fee, being the most expensive player in the world, and not living up to that. Not having a team structure that allowed him to play in a more advanced role or have a mobile DM to balance the midfield. Despite this he averaged a goal or assist every 175 mins he was on the pitch and his performances when judges in isolation, rather than through the prism of worlds most expensive, were up there with the best perfuming players every season bar his injury ravaged last season. He was picked by three managers 92% of all games he was available for. Injuries made it impossible to keep him at the end of his contract
Lingard was a very good squad player for us, a player SAF had kept an eye on. A person who, It seemed, took responsibility for a whole load outside of football which may have taken its toll. Up to that point he had gone from coming through the youth set up, playing regularly for England, scoring in world cups, winning trophies with United, scoring the winner in an FA cup final for united and a beauty at that, to being a very useful squad player. Once he lost his purpose he was let go. Doesn’t take away the fact that he had a much better career than the likes of Phil Jones and was consistently more useful and used than Juan Mata (an actual let down of a signing)
Rashford, similar to Lingard has been a big player for us. Scored some very very important goals. We don’t know what the issues are with Rashford but there very definitely are some. He claims to be very introverted which makes sense. He seems to struggle to handle pressure and to turn inwardly very often. I’m leaning to the point where it might be best for both parties to separate but for very different reasons to the two players above.
Sancho belongs nowhere in this conversation. Other than skin colour I see no correlation whatsoever and belongs more in a conversation with VDB.
The good thing is that only one of these ‘cancers’ is still at the club so obviously we are far far better off now that we have gotten rid of the ‘problems’.
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I do think a lot of these players will ne remembered negatively as a group. What they have in common is they all joined for a lot of money and achieved very little. They’ll be remembered for choking in finals, losing 7-0 to Liverpool. Stats like having the most shots faced behind only the team that is on course to have the worst ever defensive record in the PL will be remembered by fans. A poisonous dressing room spitting out managers, playing for contracts. I will definitely not fondly remember many players from the last decade unfortunately
Liverpool's Spice Boys all have very good careers too, it's not a term that means they were rubbish but more that they underachieved because they had off pitch distractions at that particular time in Liverpool:
Fowler: 120 goals in 236 appearances for Liverpool.
McManamanamanaman: 272 appearances for Liverpool, a decent England career, won the Big Cup with Madrid twice.
Redknapp: 237 for Liverpool, 17 for England, won a few minor trophies.
James: 214 for Liverpool, 53 for England, PL team of the year twice.
McAteer: once asked for his pizza to be cut into four pieces rather than eight as he wasn't that hungry.
None of them were completely shit either. Well, except Jason "Phil Neville" McAteer.
Starting a player who is letting him down.
Sport they loved?
I'd say they loved the idea of being a footballer (cars, money, parties, doing what you want) and he's been told he'll be a pro since the age of 13, having academy and scouts gas you up and bribe your family. He's likely been a millionaire from the age of 18. The game seems secondary to a lot of these players.
From the transfer thread.
The Spice Boys biggest achievements were a UEFA Cup and a couple of domestic cups whilst never seriously challenging for the league despite ending up in the top 3 a couple of times. They are the absolute perfect comparison point.
Have you left off the name to hide the posters shame at being wrong?
1.Why as a group? What links them with each other and more importantly excludes other players they played with who didn’t achieve as much as some mentioned? Players like Mata and Van De Beek, Phil Jones etc.
2.How did they all join for a lot of money
3.Pogba and Lingard performed in big games and finals, scoring goals in finals we won. They along with Rashford have won more trophies than any other players post SAF. Rashford has scored and performed in many big games.
4. Only Rashford of the four played in the 7-0
Pogba and Lingard weren’t even at the club at that point and the continuing decline eg Stats of most shots etc have nothing to do with three quarters of this group named. The funny thing is that yeah….it’s these players that are blamed.I won’t remember many players fondly either but I also wouldn’t group these four together. Sancho would go with VDB and Mata. Lingard I’d put in with McT but that’s not doing him Justice. Pogba and Rashford probably put together.
I see no reason to group these players in isolation.
These players were the key players for Liverpool and the spine of their team, in a moment in time they were modeling before mainstream celebrity was a thing in football and they wore the white suits and lost. There is a very specific reason to group those players together.
Rashford is an introvert, Pogba a devout Muslim, Lingard was merely a decent squad player and Sancho is a waste of space but has done nothing to deserve putting in a group with the other players. He probably played about 20 games at most with them.
So no it’s nothing like the above. We’ve had two seasons without three of them (Sancho barely played last season) and we have gotten worse.
What would be the perfect comparison point for
Maguire, Lindelof, Bruno, McT?
Only McT has turned up in a few big games and the others have bottled finals. Lost 7-0 to Liverpool and 6-3 to City etc.
1.Why as a group? What links them with each other and more importantly excludes other players they played with who didn’t achieve as much as some mentioned? Players like Mata and Van De Beek, Phil Jones etc.
2.How did they all join for a lot of money
3.Pogba and Lingard performed in big games and finals, scoring goals in finals we won. They along with Rashford have won more trophies than any other players post SAF. Rashford has scored and performed in many big games.
4. Only Rashford of the four played in the 7-0
I won’t remember many players fondly either but I also wouldn’t group these four together. Sancho would go with VDB and Mata. Lingard I’d put in with McT but that’s not doing him Justice. Pogba and Rashford probably put together.
I see no reason to group these players in isolation.
VDB £40 in 2020
Mata £37 2014
Jones £16m 2011
These players were a lot of money for their time. They weren’t some random bargain. Phil Jones transfer was huge for a relative unknown youngster.
Add Maguire to that.
But bizarrely none of them are a problem for a lot of our fanbase which begs the question why. Dancing has a lot to answer for
although I don’t think I’ve heard of Rashford dancing.Add Maguire to that.
But bizarrely none of them are a problem for a lot of our fanbase which begs the question why. Dancing has a lot to answer for
What? They've all been decried as failures and horrible transfers, although Phil Jones did well enough up until his body fell apart.
Why do people just make up complete nonsense? Are you actually trying to imply that most fans think Maguire, Mata and VDB were perfectly fine transfers that didn't disappoint? Because that's just the actual opposite of the truth. Lying doesn't strengthen your argument. It's just that since all the players you and slipperyshoe mentioned have left the club either permanently or on loan, besides Maguire who has had a respectable season, people aren't going to be talking about them much. Did you expect fans to still bemoan the Mata transfer as much as Sancho? Because it sounds a lot to me like you're saying that it's unreasonable for fans to talk about Sancho if they aren't also still talking about Phil Jones and Mata and whoever. That's a ridiculous view.
Sancho cost a lot of money and was a resounding failure from the start, and to make matters worse, he caused drama at the club and behaved so badly that he was effectively banished. And that happened within the span of the last year. It's beyond irrational to say that fans can't talk about that if they aren't also bringing up fecking Mata and Phil Jones in the same breath. And Maguire, while he has generally disappointed in the context of his fee, has had good seasons and captained the club for quite a while. In no conceivable way is that comparable to Sancho who was an all-encompassing failure who wouldn't have been appreciated even if he had been a free transfer.
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No, I was right
Why on earth are players like Mata, Maguire and Phil Jones being mentioned as spice boys?
The whole point of the moniker was that they were potentially very good players who seemed more interested in the trappings of fame/celebrity than being the best footballers they could be. Hence you have Sancho and Rashford being punished for disciplinary lapses, Pogba with his greedy agent (and eventual doping ban) plus Lingard with his JLingz crap.
In what weird parallel universe does any of this apply to Mata, Maguire or - most stupid example of all - Phil Jones?!?
The whole point of the moniker was that they were potentially very good players who seemed more interested in the trappings of fame/celebrity than being the best footballers they could be. Hence you have Sancho and Rashford being punished for disciplinary lapses, Pogba with his greedy agent (and eventual doping ban) plus Lingard with his JLingz crap.
In what weird parallel universe does any of this apply to Mata, Maguire or - most stupid example of all - Phil Jones?!?
I mean various pre Klopp Liverpool & post 2005 Arsenal players fit the bill I guess - Collymore, Ruddock, Ince from that crop, but also the likes of Carzola, Mustafi, Konchesky, Julio Baptisa, Andy Carroll, Mertesacker all work as similar ‘symptom of decline’ type players.
But The Spice Boys were very specifically the group of talented youth/young players who came through at the same time as The Fergie Fledglings and acted as a kind of cautionary mirror to them because they never seemed as dedicated. Which means it applies a lot more to the likes of Lingard, Pogba & Rashford and even Sancho than it does to some random senior signings. McT could, sure, but Lindelof & Bruno have nothing to do with it, and Maguire’s issue was never application.
But this isn’t really a talented group coming through together. Nobody links these players together and nobody other than a few people with a particular ongoingly weird narrative have ever associated them with the spice boys for very good reason.
firstly…Those Liverpool players were considered at the time to be a match for Uniteds class of 92. They formed the core of that side as a group Mcmannaman, Fowler, James, Babb, Redknapp, Ruddock. This random group of players picked by one of the most agenda driven posters on here were never the core of the side. Only Pogba and Rashford were ever key players in any United side. So blaming those two or that group makes no sense. To compound the issue somehow Sancho is added to the group. How? He’s hardly been part of any united side and never been a key player, whilst on the flip side it is frankly ridiculous to darken the doors of players who have played hundreds of games, scored big goals and won trophies with jadon fecking Sancho…hence the DVB or Mata comparisons.
Nobody ever looked at that group as a whole as the core of the team, nobody ever expected any of the teams they played in to dominate the league and be ultra successful.
It’s pure revisionism to suggest otherwise.
In addition you’ve got an Introvert and a devout muslim being compared with..
“Several incidents around the behaviour of the so-called Spice Boys generated major media attention, notably the squad’s decision to wear matching cream Armani suits to the 1996 FA Cup Final - a game they went on to lose to key rivals Manchester United.[8] Robbie Fowler told the Daily Mirror in 2008 that "People still remind me about the white suits all the time. It's one of those things - if we had won the game nobody would have mentioned it but we lost and it has become infamous."[9]
McManaman and Fowler were also associated with the controversial "dentist's chair" story prior to Euro 1996.[10] Rumours of a controversial 1998 Christmas party also filled the press.[11][12] “Win, draw or lose, first to the bar for booze,” was the dressing-room mantra, reportedly according to Neil Ruddock. Certain members of the Liverpool squad would sometimes be seen after matches flying down to London to get to the capital's nightclubs, such as Chinawhite, Ten Rooms or the Emporium, by 9pm. Players were romantically linked with known figures, such as Phil Babb dating the glamour model Jo Guest. Ruddock was quoted as saying “We were the first players to get big money, Porsches and Ferraris and get page three birds into bed.”[13] Ruddock shared an anecdote on the Sky Sports television show Soccer AM that Liverpool players would play a game during their fixtures where they would pass a pound coin between them in-match, and whoever was left holding it at the final whistle would have to pay for the first round of drinks after the game.[14]
The players were also linked to music industry figures, with Robbie Williams joining the squad on the team bus before and after a Premier League fixture against Aston Villa in 1995.[15]Jamie Redknapp, Jason McAteer and Phil Babb appeared in the music video One Kiss from Heaven by the pop singer Louise in November 1996”
Absoute nonsense comparison. Feck me.
See the response above. Absolute nonsense agenda driven drivel. Should expect nothing less.Why on earth are players like Mata, Maguire and Phil Jones being mentioned as spice boys?
The whole point of the moniker was that they were potentially very good players who seemed more interested in the trappings of fame/celebrity than being the best footballers they could be. Hence you have Sancho and Rashford being punished for disciplinary lapses, Pogba with his greedy agent (and eventual doping ban) plus Lingard with his JLingz crap.
In what weird parallel universe does any of this apply to Mata, Maguire or - most stupid example of all - Phil Jones?!?
None of our players compare in any way to anything resembling the spice boys. That being said pound for pound Mata and Maguire fit more into the Sancho camp than Pogba, Rashford or Lingard.
Epic post has to be said. Hats off chief and I’m not even joking.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane! Feels like ages ago.
Just scored a pretty decent goal. And every time I watch him there, all I do is say swear words. He's a different human in Germany. fecker
The one that got away.
Of all of your bad takes, claiming Maguire isn't a problem for our fanbase is really up there.Add Maguire to that.
But bizarrely none of them are a problem for a lot of our fanbase which begs the question why. Dancing has a lot to answer for
Looks like I posted in the wrong thread.
But yea, good goal. Different human in Germany.
But yea, good goal. Different human in Germany.
He actually done something
I thought he’d not been doing very much tbh?
We should get a decent amount for him. I can’t see him being back for us, so hopefully he can add more games and goals/assist before the season ends.
Don't think he's fully fit yet
He’s on too high a wage to sell I suspect. Probably see him back as an option under a different manager next season.
Great goal
Lovely goal
Which club do you reckon will pay him what we're paying him?
overreactions in 3...2....1....
He at least has been trying hard, it just hasn't really clicked for him so far. That "trying hard" seems already to be a big difference compared to what was often seen at United.
Got the notification from Sky Sports describing it as an 'outrageous solo goal' watched it and he essentially drops the shoulder to go past one defender, who does nothing, on the the 18 yard line, runs into the box and scores while no other defender closes
Definitely wouldn't describe it as outrageous
Definitely wouldn't describe it as outrageous
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